Ivan Barratt on Navigating Multifamily Trends

Full Podcast Transcript: Ep #620 – Ivan Barratt on Multifamily

Introduction and Investment Strategy

Rod Khleif: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing”. I’m Rod Khleif, and I am thrilled that you’re here. And I am super excited to invite and interview my great friend Ivan Barratt. Now, Ivan has been in this business longer than some of you have been alive. He’s the CEO of the BAM companies. He’s huge in multifamily, 4,000 plus doors. He’s raised over 100 million in equity. We give each other shit literally every time we talk, we have a lot of fun. He does a lot of cool stuff. He’s in the Entrepreneur’s Organization (EO), Young Presidents Organization. He’s in the National Multifamily Housing Council, serves on the executive board of the Indiana Apartment Association. I could go on and on, but both Ivan and I will get bored if I do. So I’m going to stop right now and welcome to the show, my good friend.

Ivan Barratt: Man, it is so good to see you. Thanks for making me feel old in that bio there.

Rod Khleif: Right. Right.

Ivan Barratt: At least I’m not as old as Rod.

Rod Khleif: That’s true. That is very true.

Ivan Barratt: Yeah, but I want to look like you. I want to look like you would be Jacked as you when I’m what are you now? 75, 76?

Rod Khleif: This is what I’m talking about, guys. This is what I’m talking about.

Ivan Barratt: Well, real quick. Before we start hurling insults, I just want to say how excited I am to be here. It is so good to see you, man.

Rod Khleif: Thanks, brother.

Ivan Barratt: Chat together. I hope I can deliver some value to your audience. You’ve delivered so much value.

Rod Khleif: Thanks, buddy.

Ivan Barratt: And I love what you’re doing, brother. And I’ve often told people I think you’re the Tony Robbins of Multifamily.

Rod Khleif: That’s funny.

Ivan Barratt: How you teach it and your methods. And it’s so freaking good to see you.

Rod Khleif: Likewise, buddy. It’s been too long. He was going to come to visit, stay in our guest house, and then Covid happened. That’s the caliber of friendship that Ivan and I have. You know, Ivan is a member of my Multifamily Boardroom Mastermind as well, which I think is now in excess of 14 billion in assets represented by the members. So, you know, we’ve gotten to know each other via that vehicle as well. But, you know, let’s dig right in, buddy, because you know, we’ve got a hard stop and I want to get–have you add as much value as you possibly can. So let’s start with, you know, I know you’ve got a fund through BAM and you’re buying higher caliber assets. Can you speak to that a little bit? Let’s start there. And then we’ll go into some other things.

Ivan Barratt: Yeah, sure. Real short story, we’re on our second fund to $75 million funds acquiring what we would call workforce white-collar housing. So we’re more AA minus now, and we found a value-add strategy that allows us to go after 2017-18, in some cases, 2020 vintage assets. And how we’re able to do that and still get value-add returns is by finding these emerging markets where there’s high rent growth, which we’re seeing a lot in tertiary markets with the post-Covid trends that are happening now. We’re buying from Mom-and-Pops and Bloated institutions where we can find value in both bringing the rents to market. And we’ve got a few tricks up our sleeve being a vertically integrated company, property management all the way up the food chain for reducing expenses. And so bringing those sorts of things altogether, the ability to save a dollar, add a dollar, and find these markets where rent growth is higher than usual and expected to continue is how we find those value-add returns and we’re still able to buy newer assets.

Rod Khleif: Nice. Nice. Nice. So let’s talk about–

Ivan Barratt: Before we get to the macro. You know, one way that allows us to do this is because everything’s so expensive to build now. Material and labor costs. So a newer asset, paying more for them, we are still below replacement costs into this market.

Rod Khleif: Really. Yeah. I thought they’d settle down a little bit. But, you know, you probably have your finger on the post of that better than I do. So, you know let’s go macro actually, right now, and let’s talk about it because you are extremely well-read. You follow this stuff, but let’s go macro and talk about– I’m sorry, my slack was buzzing and it’s making clicking noise first.

Ivan Barratt: I know the feeling.

Rod Khleif: Yeah. Let’s talk about how you feel about the current environment and, you know, the Fed printing money and the trillions and trillions of dollars, and you know, just your thoughts on that as it relates to our industry and the economy in general. You know, I give Ivan a hard time you know, because I’m a very voracious reader, but the caliber of the reading material that I saw in his briefcase when he came and visited is really off the chain. So listen up to what he’s going to say here. So let’s talk about that. So talk about your take on what’s happening right now.

Ivan Barratt: Yeah. And I’m going to speak about this not from a Covid or health standpoint, but just dispassionately from a business standpoint. The opportunity to get wealthy.

Rod Khleif: Good.

Ivan Barratt: Because it is a tale of two cities, a tale of two countries right now. For some people, it’s the worst of times and for the wealthy, for the financially educated, those who know how to play the game and know the game that’s being played? It is an amazing time to make money, especially when it comes to acquiring hard assets to generate income. And so for us, it is game on right now. You still have to be mindful of what you’re buying. And we’ve gone away from secondary markets that are more tertiary focused because we can find value in emerging markets that there are fewer institutional capital-seeking assets. But what’s going on right now is there is just an overabundance of equity capital. So I’m seeing our costs of equity go down, and there’s an abundance of debt out there. One thing I’ll tell you is we’ve moved away from agency debt. We don’t use it right now.

Rod Khleif: Really.

Ivan Barratt: We’re finding better products elsewhere. And so we’ve moved off agency.

Rod Khleif: Wow.

Ivan Barratt: Just keep that between you and me, Rod. Don’t tell everybody.

Rod Khleif: Sure. Won’t tell the 100,000 people that will hear it. Okay.

Ivan Barratt: But the Fed is basically saying their playbook is to continue to protect assets, stocks, bonds, real estate, destroying the dollar in the process.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: Or at least devalue, I shouldn’t say destroyed. I’m not saying the dollar is going to die.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: The world still needs dollars. We are the most liquid, most diverse economy on the planet. And we can go down the rabbit hole on why America will have an amazing next century. Now, I’m not saying there won’t be bumps in the road and the recessions are gone. But America, North America, to a great extent, will dominate. And if you want to buy something that can’t be destroyed or disrupted or you wake up and it’s gone from you know, $100 of stock to $50, it’s multi-family assets. So we think it’s still the best risk-adjusted return that you can possibly go after. Now, it’s really freaking hard to find a deal right now, is it not?

Rod Khleif: Yes, it is. We’ve got one under contract right now, 296 doors, and it took us 300 frog kisses to find that one, but screaming deal, but yeah.

Ivan Barratt: I saw that deal. I love that Texas market in San Antonio. That’s a smart move there. It’s not a market you know, I play– I’m a Midwestern guy. You guys know Texas really, really well.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: But, man, what a great asset that you have taken off.

Rod Khleif: Thank you. Talk about the impact of inflation on our asset class.

Ivan Barratt: Yeah. So what we’re seeing is the highest occupancy– you know, we’ve seen since we started in this business. We buy garden apartments.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: We bought the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, ’90s. Now we’re buying late teens. But the demand for garden apartments in suburban markets, where there are good schools and growing, diverse jobs, the demand is far outstripping the supply. There are lots of factors most people know it’s really hard to find a house, too. So you’ve got a lot of renters due to that. You’ve got these big shifts. Lots of kids. When I say kids, you know, anybody in their 20’s and 30’s now. I call a kid. They’re pairing up or they’re moving out to the suburbs. They’re leaving the urban markets. Here in Indianapolis, they can leave downtown and go to some really cool suburban cities where they can still find watering holes and still find whoever it is. They may be chasing for relationships, but they also find safer environments, cleaner environments, and they’re thinking about their future. They’re thinking about kids. And you’ve seen this incredible demand for suburban garden apartments.

Rod Khleif: Yeah. No question. We’re in the high 90’s on most of our assets and the same, same. So you know, talk about what you look for–I mean I think you kind of did in a tertiary market. Diverse employment. What’s your definition of emerging? So speak to that because people hear that term. How do you define that? Right.

Ivan Barratt: Yeah. So I’ll define it by you’re seeing big economic development announcements. You’re seeing the trend in population, the forward trends start to bend upward. And you’re seeing rents and occupancy go up. There are lots of little markets like this across the country. I typically look for three, four, 500,000 people or more, maybe near a major city. And then that’s where I start digging in. One of the economic development announcements going on there for us in the Midwest. A lot of it’s centered around logistics, e-commerce. Right. So where are the Amazons and the Walmart distribution fulfillment centers going? Where is the advanced manufacturing, the reassuring manufacturing going? So it’s a lot about following the jobs. Right. Following the people is great. But the jobs are the number one driver where the people are going to end up.

Rod Khleif: That makes sense. I was going to ask you, are you concerned about the Southern migration with some of the things that are happening? But you’re absolutely right. People have to work and jobs are the most important factor in this business. So, no, what you just said makes sense.

Ivan Barratt: Somebody in your audience might be saying yes, you know, but people can work from anywhere now. And you are going to see more of that trend.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: But the majority of that upper end of the workforce is still going to get in a car and drive to a job.

Rod Khleif: Right. Yeah, right.

Ivan Barratt: And they want to be in those good school districts and have good restaurants and that kind of thing.

Rod Khleif: Well, yeah. Where I was going with that inflation question is you know, when everything goes up in price, so do rents.

Ivan Barratt: Amen.

Rod Khleif: But our debt remains static in most cases. And so, you know, that’s one of the big benefits. Now, do you factor inflation into your proformas when you’re evaluating a deal? And if so, how do you do it?

Ivan Barratt: We really don’t. We really consider it gravy. The way we model deals is we model– the rent growth in the first couple of years is what we are confident we can grow the rents.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: And then we lower the trend growth rate over time. Inflation will certainly make our assets even better.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: And we’re typically for the inflation reason we’re locking in seven-year debt. That’s interest only, full-term interest only.

Rod Khleif: Very nice.

Ivan Barratt: And we’re actually floating the rate. But we’re buying a rate cap instead of locking it in. We know the max the rate is going to be because I don’t think rates are going to go up, actually, predicting they’ll go down by the rate cap is my hedge. I don’t bet the farm.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: But I think interest rates are going to go down. What’s really interesting right now is what happened in World War II is very similar to what’s happening now. We don’t have a world war. We definitely have a war on a pandemic.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: What the Federal Reserve did in World War II was they instituted yield curve control and they let inflation run hot. This has all happened before, folks. And so what happens when you keep rates low artificially? You control them. You let inflation go. That amplifies what Rod just said. What you just said. Because now all of a sudden, you’re getting this huge spread between your rents are going up, right, wages are going up. People are making more money so you can charge them more. And your debt is staying relatively fixed. And so, I think the Federal Reserve is going to continue to help the investor class, the wealthy out there, no matter what you think about that, some things just don’t change.

Rod Khleif: Right. Right. Right. No, I agree. So we’ll see, I’m not sure I agree with the interest rate thing, but I’m usually wrong. So you know, my kids love to tell me you’re tired of being wrong. So you know what? And you’re much better read than I am.

Ivan Barratt: Well, a lot of guys that are 10,20 years older than me are thinking you know, they’re thinking back to experiencing the ’70s, right? In high inflation. I’m not saying that’s not a possibility. But if you go back a full cycle, “The Fourth Turning” is a great book. “The Fourth Turning”. If you go back a full cycle, I think you get a much more accurate picture of what we did the last time we were in a situation like this because there are so many deflationary forces that are happening right now, similar to the “Great Depression” and the Federal Reserve and the treasury, and the world, especially places like Europe, are fighting as hard as they can to avoid deflation. That’s why when Covid hit, we bought more assets. Right? You and I run a phone call. And I’m not going to name any names, but a lot of guys on that Webinar or that panel were saying, hey, we’re going to have negative rent growth. We’re getting super conservative. Right? And what happened?

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: The Fed stepped on the, you know what, gas, the freaking gas, and liquefied everybody, because what’s worse than inflation is deflation. They were scared out of their minds in 2008, and they didn’t act fast enough.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: Now they had the playbook to do it. And this is all based on you know, 100 years ago, the last time this happened was in “The Great Depression”.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: The last thing any of them want is a deflationary death cycle. So they’ve gone on record. They’ve gone on Capitol Hill and said, we would rather drop money from a helicopter than let deflation sink in. And then you’ve got politicians. You got a lot of noise out there. My advice to anybody listening is don’t listen to what they always say. Listen to what they do or watch what they do.

Rod Khleif: Yeah. No, I mean, you’re right. I thought you were dogging me. When you said, people ten to 20 years older. But the point is, yes. I went through that. I remember 18% interest. I remember when we got 7%. I was doing backflips. Okay. And now we’re at three and change on, like the San Antonio deal.

Ivan Barratt: Here’s why you won’t get it again.

Rod Khleif: Why.

Ivan Barratt: Here’s why you won’t get that kind of inflation again because of the disinflation of technology. Folks out there, if you’re not listening to Cathy Wood of “Ark Invest”, you should be. Whether you buy stocks or not, listen to everything Cathy has to say. Don’t take it as gospel. She’s got some great arguments on the disinflationary forces out there. Autonomous driving, electric vehicles. You know, the cost 20 years ago to map the genome was like a billion dollars. Today, it’s like thousands of dollars. There are all these other forces in the world that are deflating forces and the Fed and the government is fighting that as best they can. What you don’t see are the inflationary issues that you might have had in the ’70s.

Rod Khleif: Interesting. Do you mean the framework for that to happen again? Got it. So let’s shift gears. Thank you for that. Let’s shift gears for it because you know, you spend a lot of time working with entrepreneurs in EO and you know, your company has been in the Inc. 5000. You know, you’re CEO of a great company. And we’ve had lots of conversations about managing you know, a freighter. And that’s really what you have in an organization of your size. Let’s talk about really what’s happening with you. Because I know you’ve brought on a great C class team to help you, and you know, things are going extremely well. Let’s talk about what it takes to run a business and maybe some tips that you might have for someone, even with a small team, you know, a handful of people. What are some of the things you’ve learned that have helped you ramp your success? And that’s a really broad question. But you know, whatever comes to mind.

Leadership, Coaching, and Team Building

Ivan Barratt: Yeah, we could go a bunch of different ways. Right? But one thing that I love is what you said, even for somebody who’s got a small business now. I don’t remember who first told me this when I first read about it. But it was a mindset that I’ve used with my team from the beginning. And that is, guys, we are not a small business. We are a big company, which today happens to be small. And I’ve always worked to operate under that mentality. What would a big company do? How would a big company react to this? How would a big company look and keep my eye on the horizon with that in mind? The biggest part is people. You know, I love everything you just said, but it’s really the people at BAM, the team we’ve put together, my leadership team, and the folks that they’ve brought in under them. They deserve so much credit now for how we look to the outside world, our culture. It was a goal of mine early on to build a management company that people would actually want to work for. And I was lucky enough to find people that bought into that dream and helped make it a reality. So much of my focus is on people and finding the right people to help run that business. And it’s anything but easy.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: It is so freaking hard, man. You know, we’ve all been hit the mouth.

Rod Khleif: Sure. Sure.

Ivan Barratt: What I had to recognize early as an entrepreneur is that finding, managing, growing a team would make real estate seem pretty easy. It would be the hardest part of the job and just understanding that upfront and knowing that’s part of it, and you have to go through that if you want to grow a real company?

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: And having that mindset was the key to so much of it, so much of it. And then now, I mean, gosh, dude, I think I spend on consulting and coaching and outside people that are coming in to help me with my personal coaching, coaching my team, our quarterly, where we bring in our facilitator and reset you know, where we’re going five years out down the line and how we’re going to get there quarter by quarter. I bet you, I spend well over 200 grand a year now in coaching and mentoring, and then I pair that up with–I’m no longer actually in EO. I transitioned fully to YPO and transitioned out of EO. EO was a great part of my journey but outgrew it.

Rod Khleif: Okay.

Ivan Barratt: But being in that forum mindset, two of my favorite forums, my EO forum that I had for five years of other entrepreneurs that weren’t even in real estate. It was industry agnostic with the same goals in mind. Being your mastermind. So having one that was industry agnostic and then having one that was more–

Rod Khleif: Industry-specific.

Ivan Barratt: Industry-specific. I’ve got some great relationships. JC, Farris, Maureen, I mean, some phenomenal operators that I can connect with any time I need to, and we share information.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: So that coaching, the facilitation, and then being in those forums or those masterminds of like-minded individuals is rocket fuel.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Rod Khleif: Yeah. Guys, you know, I hope you’re taking notes on this because truly, that is a secret to success. You know, I showed a picture of me with all my lanyards from all my different you know, masterminds and boot camps and mentors that I’ve hired over the years. I don’t think I’ve spent 200 grand a year. That’s pretty significant. But you know, here you’re listening to someone that’s super successful. Talk about you know, his investment in himself and in his company on an ongoing basis.

Ivan Barratt: Well, I’m going to be vulnerable here. I’ve got a marriage coach, my wife and I, we have a coach. We meet with him every other week, right. So that we can keep our marriage on track and communicate, and I can be a better husband. Well, she’s perfect. You know.

Rod Khleif: Right. That’s exactly right. And she’s always right.

Ivan Barratt: 99% of the time. There was once a few years ago.

Rod Khleif: Okay. All right.

Ivan Barratt: That was about it.

Rod Khleif: You’re right. You can be right or you can be happy. That’s something I live by. Love it.

Ivan Barratt: The bottom line for me is anywhere in my life that I want to improve. I bring in a coach or I bring in a group of people. I’ve got a spiritual group of men that I meet with every other or every 2nd and 3rd, 4th Thursday of the month. Right.

Rod Khleif: Nice.

Ivan Barratt: Because I want to improve my spiritual fitness.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: Everywhere in your life that you want to improve. You got to have coaching in a group around you, or you’ll slip back, you’ll slide. In another week, another month, another year has gone by, and you haven’t done squat getting towards your dreams.

Rod Khleif: Yeah, I know in our Warrior Mentorship program, you know, we have high-performance coaching as a component. And they just got a message from the coach today that you know, he just had a call with somebody and the guy took his family out to dinner, and he just started crying at the dinner table because you know, you recognized you know, where you needed to progress. You know, and I sent it to the whole team because it was just so powerful and we get that all the time. But you know, I’m blessed to say you know, that mindset and psychology component of what we do is you know, my students are approaching 46,000 doors owned, and I’ve been teaching for three and a half years. So I’m really proud of that, you know.

Ivan Barratt: That’s why I think you’re the Tony Robbins of real estate, because, listen, you can get a lot of multifamily information out there, but if you don’t figure out the mindset first, it’s like you told me a long time ago, Rod. I can’t guarantee you that you’ll be successful, even if you have the right mindset. But if you don’t, I can guarantee you will fail.

Rod Khleif: Yeah, for sure. So let me ask you this. You know, when you find these people in your organization to either partner with, hire, align with, you know, talk about some strategies about what you look for in them and then how you manage them. I think that will add some value. This could apply to partners as well. So it’s kind of a broad question. But what do you look for when you’re interviewing and starting a relationship either hire or a partner.

Ivan Barratt: We could do a whole podcast on that. I’ve had a bad partnership early on that I was lucky to get out of. And then, you know, now I’ve got a partnership that has been truly amazing. Adam, Eric, my COO. The Yin to my Yang, the peanut butter to my jelly sandwich. What’s worked out so well for us is we are very opposite. He is ten times smarter than me, an amazing operator, way better at managing the day-to-day and managing the people, the day-to-day than I am. You know, I tend to be all over the place. I tend to freak people out. I change direction a lot. I’ve got some really fantastic ideas, but only about one out of ten are worth anything. And so for me, finding what EOS would call that integrator, that person that can help check those ideas at the gate, you know, we often talk and I say, hey, Adam, I got a great idea unless you talk me out of it. And oftentimes he does. And then a couple slipped through you know, he’s a bullshit detector and end up being fantastic.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: And that partnership has served us as well. So for me you know, early on, I would hire people I like that were like me. That’s a pretty bad idea for an entrepreneur that needs to surround himself with folks that can do things that I can’t do or shouldn’t be doing.

Rod Khleif: Well, that’s even more important, right.

Ivan Barratt: Right? So a lot of it is figuring that out. You know, nowadays– we didn’t always do this that we hired core values. We run personality tests. People have multiple interviews. In the beginning, though, as a small entrepreneur, you know, you just got to figure it out. I would say, just like doing deals, don’t get bogged down in analysis paralysis. You’re never going to bat a thousand. You’re going to hire people you shouldn’t have. You’re going to make mistakes.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: That’s just part of it. Just whatever you do, take action.

Rod Khleif: Right.

Ivan Barratt: Take action.

Rod Khleif: What do you do after they’re on board and or aligned with you? What’s your MO for what you do at that point?

Ivan Barratt: Well, nobody really reports in me anymore. They report to my COO. People aren’t allowed to report to me because I usually screw stuff up.

Rod Khleif: Funny.

Ivan Barratt: And that’s pretty much true. Early on, though, the best I did was when I had clear measurable goals, job descriptions. Hey, this might change in a while, you know, but here’s what I need you to be doing. This is what success looks like.

Rod Khleif: That’s really important what you just said. Guys, take note of that. This is what success looks like. You give them that vision. Okay. Sorry I interrupted. Okay.

Ivan Barratt: No, not at all. I want to be careful what I say what we do now because I don’t want to overwhelm anybody that’s earlier in on the journey you know, from thinking they’ve got to figure it all out. I had none of it figured out. I made every freaking mistake.

Rod Khleif: But they need the target. They still need the target, though, right?

Ivan Barratt: Yeah, absolutely.

Rod Khleif: But I hear your point. You don’t want to overwhelm them. If they’re thinking about this big giant thing, it’ll scare you know, some people. Yeah.

Ivan Barratt: For the solopreneurs out there, one thing I should have done long before I did it, was, hire an assistant to take a lot of stuff off my plate.

Rod Khleif: Okay, stop, guys. What he just said, you need to write down. I just had a call with one of my warriors. He said I’m overwhelmed. I’m doing this, this, and this. I said, do you have a PA or an executive assistant. He’s like, no, I said, dude, the next thing you do is you’re going to run an ad for this person. I sent him what to look for and what to write and so on and so forth. Guys, that is a game-changer. So the minute you can afford someone like that, that will be the best hire you can possibly make. Sorry, I just really want to draw attention to that.

Ivan Barratt: Oh, no. I’m so glad you drove that home. And guys, guys, and gals. I say, guys universally, you can’t afford not to have an assistant. You can get them virtually now for, like, $10 an hour.

Rod Khleif: Right?

Ivan Barratt: If they don’t work, fire and try again.

Rod Khleif: Right?

Ivan Barratt: But just do it. It’ll take so much off your plate and you can only work so hard. You just reminded me, another saying that I’ve used so much in my growth, and I have to constantly ask myself this question, Rod, or say this to myself is you know, what got me here won’t get me there.

Rod Khleif: Yeah.

Ivan Barratt: Right? So as a solopreneur, I had to figure out, okay, how do I go from that small business owner to company and so forth? And even today, I have to figure out what got me here today won’t get me there. What do I need to add? What do I need to cut out of my life? Who do I need on the team six months from now that I really should be hiring today?

Rod Khleif: Yeah.

Ivan Barratt: Right? What got me here won’t get me the next leg of the journey.

Rod Khleif: Yeah.

Ivan Barratt: So true. Growing a business.

Rod Khleif: Yeah. Love it. Love it.

Ivan Barratt: How did you–

Rod Khleif: By the way. Hold on. Hold that question for one second. By the way, guys he mentioned EOS, which comes up a lot on the show, but if you haven’t heard that, it’s an Entrepreneur’s Operating System. It’s from the book “Traction”, and we implemented it in our company. And I’ve talked about it at the Mastermind with all these high-level entrepreneurs, and many of them have implemented it. And it is a fantastic way to run your company. Just read the book. We won’t belabor that, but I just wanted to define that for those that didn’t know what that meant. So please ask your question. Now, forget–

Ivan Barratt: As you’re growing that’s rock and fuel. Well, I was going to ask, how many duds did you go through before you found Camille, for example?

Rod Khleif: Oh, yeah, right. No, probably three. Yeah. She’s a freaking rock star. Tiffany Morelli, my executive assistant is a freaking rock star. She just came here today and brought me something for the house.

Ivan Barratt: But my guess is you didn’t get them out of the gate, right?

Rod Khleif: Right. My point here is– no, I didn’t get him out of the gate. No way. No, I went through– I kissed several frogs to get them, and that’s going to happen sometimes. Sometimes, it’s you getting in alignment with what you really need as well. And it’s not so much them. But I will tell you, you know, if there’s someone on your team, by the way, actually, you know what I’m going to derail that? The thing is, when you bring on that executive assistant, have a conversation where you tell them, leave your ego at the door because your only outcome is to save me time. Period. And there may be things that you feel are you know, a little beneath you, but please know that’s not me trying to belittle. It’s just me needing the help. So she ran an errand. She went to Verizon and got this extender I need for my phone here, in my compound, and you know, stuff like that. And you want someone that’s got a servant’s heart as well, someone that really wants to help and be that.

Ivan Barratt: A cautionary tale, guys, I know a couple of super successful real estate agents, one residential, one broker. Phenomenal. Both of them are my dear friends. They both refuse to get an assistant because they think it will only cost them money. They constantly drop balls. They’re constantly stressed on the weekends. They’re not thinking about the kids they’re with. They’re getting a call, and you know, I gave up trying to encourage them after so many years of begging them.

Rod Khleif: Yeah, that’s a shame. Because there are things you shouldn’t be doing. Me, I love to run a lawnmower around my yard, but I shouldn’t be doing that. Okay? I shouldn’t be cleaning this house. You know, I shouldn’t be doing a lot of outbound calls that my team does and so on and so forth. That’s just not a good use of my time. And that applies to you, listening as well. There are things you shouldn’t be doing. Anyway. No, that’s good stuff, buddy. Good stuff. Well, listen, you’ve added a ton of value already. Ivan is a great guy. Again, it’s the BAM companies. And anyway, it’s great to see you, my friend. And I’m sure we’ll talk again real soon.

Ivan Barratt: Great to be here, Rod. Thank you so much for having me, man.

Rod Khleif: You bet.