Engelo Rumora is a renowned real estate executive, investor, and CEO with a global portfolio spanning countries like the Bahamas, Croatia, Japan, Australia, and the USA. His expertise extends to tech, crypto, stocks, and oil funds. Engelo has led several successful companies, notably Ohio Cashflow and Oz Realty. With over 1,000 real estate transactions, his career showcases a diverse range of entrepreneurial ventures and investment strategies.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- From Broke To World Traveller
- Is the Stock Market Headed for a Crash?
- Diversification: Friend or Foe?
- Hot Debate – Turn Key Assets Investments
- How Failure Became Engelo’s Launchpad to Success
- Asset More Valuable Than Money or Real Estate?
- The Most Critical Hire You Have to Make First
- The Potential Of Scaling
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
For more about Rod and his real estate investing journey go to www.rodkhleif.com
Please Review and Subscribe
Full Transcript Below
00:00:31:16 – 00:00:57:02
Rod
Welcome back to Lifetime cash Flow through Real Estate investing. I’m Rod Cliff and I am thrilled that you’re here and you’re going to get tremendous value from the shy, soft spoken, understated, awkward introvert that I’m interviewing today. His name is Angelo Romero, and Angelo is a seasoned real estate investor, is CEO of a turnkey company called Ohio Cash Flow.
00:00:57:04 – 00:01:03:05
Rod
He’s in. He’s got a real estate company, Oz Realty. And anyway, welcome to the show, brother Rod.
00:01:03:05 – 00:01:10:11
Engelo
Thanks for having me, mate. You’re the only stud that I would go out of my way and fly from out of state to have an interview with. So there.
00:01:10:11 – 00:01:29:24
Rod
You go. Well, thank you. My friend. Thank you. And by the way, all that crap I said about him earlier was just that crap. One of the loudest people I’ve ever had on the couch here. So anyway, we’re gonna have some fun today. Well, why don’t you tell, you know, tell us a little bit of your story. You’ve got a very interesting background, and you’re an Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie oil.
00:01:29:24 – 00:01:34:29
Rod
Right? And so, you know, bring us bring us current, but give us some color.
00:01:34:29 – 00:01:43:08
Engelo
Yeah, let me try not and let me try not go into too much background but look so I initially quit school when I was 14 so no formal education.
00:01:43:08 – 00:01:44:10
Rod
And where were you living?
00:01:44:12 – 00:02:03:26
Engelo
In Australia. Okay, but I lived in Australia and Croatia. Parents are Croatian grandparents, Italian. I was born in Australia, right? So I quit school when I was 14 because ever since I was five years old I had a big dream of becoming a professional soccer player. It was my the love of my life, my passion. And even to this day, I still love the sport, right?
00:02:03:28 – 00:02:28:13
Engelo
So I quit school when I was 14. I can’t really type too well, mate. I hate reading, you know, ADHD or whatever it’s called anxiety. Got it all. I was just talking to Matt before we went on air about it and yeah, so played professional soccer when I was 18. One of the biggest achievements of my life, even to this state, I’m a quit school so I could train full time to give myself the best possible chance of becoming a professional soccer player.
00:02:28:15 – 00:02:45:17
Engelo
And I decided to hang up the boots around one year after that. The reason for that is I just didn’t believe that I could achieve the financial freedom that I wanted to achieve. Playing professional soccer, I’m by retirement age. So that was a you know, it was a it was a tough decision to make. I decided to hang up the boots.
00:02:45:17 – 00:03:01:08
Engelo
So what do you do, Rod? Where do you go? You got no formal education. You can’t read, you can’t write. The only job that I could get at the time was working as a bloody laborer. So I was sweeping floors on dirty construction sites, picking up, picking up sheetrock, getting a lot of shit from all of the contractors.
00:03:01:10 – 00:03:25:06
Engelo
But I always believed that there was something bigger and better out there for me, and I always believed in hell. I guess. How can I make money work for me instead of me working for it? So I came to the realization of that fact and I literally replaced my huge passion that I had for football and soccer in absolute infatuation of training twice a day, you know, not drinking, not going out.
00:03:25:06 – 00:03:50:14
Engelo
I didn’t even have a girlfriend up until I was 18 with business, finance, entrepreneurship, investing, royalties, stocks started educating myself on everything and anything related to to invest in cash flow finance. And one thing led to another working in construction. What do you what do you do? I bought my first house, renovated it, refinanced it, bought another one in Australia, renovated it, refinanced it.
00:03:50:14 – 00:04:06:13
Engelo
The Aussie market’s very expensive. I’m going to a ton of debt. I was way over my head. It looked great on paper and I picked up a lot of checks because I was able to tell them I’m the successful real estate investor. But the reality was I was bleeding more on the monthly mortgage repayments than I was actually getting.
00:04:06:13 – 00:04:08:00
Rod
From the regular call it negative gearing.
00:04:08:00 – 00:04:20:18
Engelo
Don’t say negative news for. That’s right. And then you can offset against your taxes. It’s a bloody joke. Anyway, I quickly woke up and smelt the roses, mate. So this was around 2011, 2,012th. Woke up and smelt the rose. Then I said, This is a recipe for disaster. I can’t be doing this.
00:04:20:19 – 00:04:23:22
Rod
So you didn’t have a big crash in 089 in Australia like we did here?
00:04:23:22 – 00:04:29:02
Engelo
They did. They did, but not real estate wise. Mostly from the from the stock market.
00:04:29:02 – 00:04:30:17
Rod
Gotcha. Okay. Sorry to interrupt, please.
00:04:30:17 – 00:04:32:01
Engelo
Yeah, no, you’re fine. I just don’t do it again.
00:04:32:01 – 00:04:34:03
Rod
Yeah, okay.
00:04:34:05 – 00:04:44:29
Engelo
So, yeah, I quickly woke up and smelt the roses. Mate, this was around 2012. The US real estate market comes across my desk. Aussie dollars, one for one. You got properties, you’re selling for peanuts, right? And I’m like.
00:04:45:02 – 00:04:48:22
Rod
This. So what you’re saying is the Aussie dollar was one for one American dollars.
00:04:48:22 – 00:05:06:18
Engelo
Yeah. Which is normally always a 30, 40, 50% difference. Right. Pack my bags, mate. That was actually one day pack my bags six months. I was in the US, bought my first property. I got off the boat. As I like to joke around in Kansas City, don’t quote me on the numbers because I can’t remember. But I made a 20 grand profit and I was like, Shit, this is better.
00:05:06:18 – 00:05:11:23
Engelo
This is better than sliced bread. Eventually moved to Toledo, Ohio, because I saw a lot of opportunity.
00:05:11:23 – 00:05:12:16
Rod
There on purpose.
00:05:12:22 – 00:05:38:22
Engelo
Yeah, on purpose. Look, the beautiful weather, the beaches. You can’t go wrong. You know what I mean? Love snorkeling. Fishing just like you do. And, Mike, look, start a turnkey company to hire cash flow. I stopped counting out a thousand flips. I had to set up in-house property management, real estate brokerage investor in tech, invested in crypto, heavily invested right now in the stock market, invested in an oil fund, made millions, lost millions.
00:05:38:25 – 00:05:40:05
Engelo
And here I am with you today.
00:05:40:05 – 00:05:54:05
Rod
Wow. Well, we’re going to we’re going to deconstruct most of what you just said. You’ve done a ton of flips. Why all these other disciplines? Why crypto, why oil, Why all these other things?
00:05:54:08 – 00:06:19:13
Engelo
Great question. So, look, I’m a real estate guy, right? Okay. And that’s always going to be my bread and butter. Right? But I guess from a diversification standpoint, and I’ve always I’ve always liked investing in other opportunities, especially the stock market, even like in 2008. I think I’ve been through that downturn, but I was a little bit too young and I don’t have any capital to be able to capitalize on it.
00:06:19:16 – 00:06:35:23
Engelo
And I always thought to myself, one day I’m going to be loaded with cash and I’ll be able to capitalize on a downturn in a market when it happens like it did in 2008 and I did made a lot I made a lot of money during COVID. I’m actually did a video and I’m not Nostradamus. You’re not predicting the future.
00:06:35:23 – 00:06:52:06
Engelo
But common sense, again, not the smartest guy out there, Rod, not the most sophisticated guy out there. But if you look at historical stats, there’s a market downturn every 7 to 10 years on average after 2008 and nine. You know, this is 2018 when I did the video. We haven’t had a downturn. You know, the market’s booming. Everything is booming.
00:06:52:06 – 00:07:08:28
Engelo
Real estate stocks. And I had no clue what could happen or how it could happen, but I believed something was going to happen either on purpose or accidentally like a black swan type event. So I sold out of everything I had. I was sitting on a lot of cash and I literally triple my money during COVID because I went deep into the stock market during COVID.
00:07:08:28 – 00:07:21:17
Engelo
So that’s where the opportunity presented itself. I consider myself to be kind of fairly well versed, you know, different a lot of different asset classes. Crypto don’t have a bloody clue about crypto. That was just stupid. Okay.
00:07:21:19 – 00:07:28:15
Rod
So, so so you don’t do you feel like that we could have a correction in the stock market this year?
00:07:28:17 – 00:07:51:14
Engelo
No, no. And I’ll tell you why. And I literally stalked CNBC 10 hours a day. I feel that there’s a lot of look, we’ve got the election coming up. I feel that the Fed and Powell in a way are going to manipulate the inflation rates or be manipulated by the upcoming election. So they’re going to have to start softening up the the interest rate, the interest rates.
00:07:51:14 – 00:07:53:13
Rod
Yeah, well, I believe that, too. They have to come down.
00:07:53:14 – 00:08:09:11
Engelo
Okay. They have to calm down a little bit. Yeah. I don’t know how much. Three, four cuts to five, whatever. Right. Maybe not more than that. That’s my opinion. Right. So a lot of pent up demand, ton of pent up demand for houses. For houses. Yes. Right. People out people are fixed into their long term multistarrer.
00:08:09:13 – 00:08:10:21
Rod
Yeah. They got 3% now they don’t.
00:08:10:21 – 00:08:25:07
Engelo
Want seven, they don’t want to sell. Folks can’t buy or they can’t borrow as much. So they’re not buying the markets debt. As soon as the rates go down, you’re going to see the floodgates open. We’re going to have a boom. Trump gets elected, taxes are lower. We’re going to have another boom. In my opinion, you’ve really got artificial intelligence booming.
00:08:25:07 – 00:08:41:26
Engelo
I think my personal opinion might over the next two or three years, we’re going to be there’s going to be a lot of real estate appreciation and the stock market is going to go to keep going to all time highs. I’m heavily invested right now, literally all of my eggs in one basket. Rod, I’m regional banks, heavily invested.
00:08:41:26 – 00:08:47:29
Rod
You can decide if we cut this out or not. Okay. But I think you’re making a very dangerous mistake and I’m going to tell you why.
00:08:48:01 – 00:08:49:02
Engelo
Okay.
00:08:49:05 – 00:09:11:20
Rod
A lot of commercial debt is coming due right now. A lot of bridge debt is coming due, A lot of office debt and commercial debt is held by small and regional banks. Yep. And that a lot of that debt is in trouble. Office is like it in the you know some areas are 50% occupied so a lot of areas are 60 70% occupied.
00:09:11:20 – 00:09:31:07
Rod
Big, big metropolitan areas, millions of square feet and I think we’re going to see some bank failures, some significant bank failures. I actually think that’s going to be the catalyst for a pullback. Not again, you can decide if you want to take this out of the interview or not, but I actually think you could be in a dangerous place with that, honestly.
00:09:31:07 – 00:09:54:21
Rod
But I’m telling you personally, I would be very careful. Okay. All right. Because I really think that we’re going to see small and regional bank failures, probably not till after the election, because they’re going to prop the interest rate back up. But if they steal that election, I think even if they don’t, I don’t think Trump can stop what’s coming with with so much debt coming due yet.
00:09:54:21 – 00:10:12:26
Engelo
No, I understand that. My opinion my opinion on that is made. I don’t think that a lot of the regional banks are as exposed as folks think they are to commercial loans. That’s my opinion. And if you look at the book value of these banks, they’ve got plenty more assets than the stock price is worth right now. They’re still profitable, they’re still growing, revenue in is still paying dividends.
00:10:12:26 – 00:10:32:03
Engelo
You had Silicon Valley bank collapse first Republic, New York Community Bank with the Munchkin guy, whatever his name is, he’s backing them right now. Look, if the interest rates continue to stay higher for longer, there could be trouble. But eventually they’ll reposition. Small businesses, right. Are too integrated into community banks. They can’t let them go on that. They’re going to consolidate.
00:10:32:03 – 00:10:32:25
Engelo
There’s going to be less.
00:10:32:25 – 00:10:38:20
Rod
Well, there’ll be consolidation. So, you know, the banks don’t actually Well, I don’t know what happens now.
00:10:38:23 – 00:10:53:04
Engelo
And I’m not invested in individual regional banks. I’m invested in a three times leveraged ETF that has the in regional banks in bulk. It’s very high risk, very high risk. I don’t recommend anyone do it. Yeah, I’m either going to be a hero or a zero. Yeah, well.
00:10:53:04 – 00:10:54:23
Rod
I hope I hope you’re not a zero.
00:10:54:25 – 00:11:08:27
Engelo
Because, look, for example, I bank with the regional bank, small business owners bank with regional bank. I can call my bank right now, mate. And why are you funds there anyway? They’ll do it. I don’t have to go there. They don’t really abide by the Patriot Act bullshit. They’re like a Bank of America. Doesn’t a Wells Fargo. You know what I mean?
00:11:08:27 – 00:11:22:25
Engelo
So they’re just too integrated into small business. People love them. They offer the best rates to offer the best customer service. And if with time, with time, they should figure out ways how to get out of these loans, how to refinance them, how to do something.
00:11:22:29 – 00:11:23:22
Rod
Well, let’s hope so.
00:11:23:25 – 00:11:37:25
Engelo
I hope so. Well, look, we had we had the we had the worst of it behind us, especially now. We look and he’s another one of my predictions, Mike, is another one of my predictions. War in Ukraine and Russia is going to end within the next two years. Oil is going to go down. What does that do to inflation?
00:11:38:01 – 00:11:42:07
Engelo
It also goes down. There’s a lot of large tech companies right now flying. A lot of people might.
00:11:42:09 – 00:11:42:27
Rod
Yeah.
00:11:43:00 – 00:11:56:29
Engelo
They’re firing a lot of people. Right. And if people aren’t getting employed and if people aren’t employed, they’re not spending any money, what does that do to inflation? We had two months now where it was a little bit higher than usual. Okay, let’s see what March is going to bring. We’ll listen to this guy today. I think he’s talking or whatever.
00:11:57:01 – 00:12:16:13
Engelo
But again, I mean, if they my my, this is my this is what I think is going to happen. If they reduced the interest rate by one percentage point, by one percentage point, the deepest ETF that I’m invested in is literally going to go 3 to 4 X based off of historical thought. Again, historical data is not a prediction of future, but again, that’s my hope.
00:12:16:13 – 00:12:39:09
Rod
You’re right, man. I hope you’re right. I actually my belief is that small and regional banks are going to be the catalyst for something bigger in a negative way in this economy. But we’ll see. You know what? I hope? I hope you’re right. I really do. So you’ve built several different types of companies. You’ve got you’ve got your turnkey business.
00:12:39:09 – 00:12:45:29
Rod
You’ve been very successful. You’ve got your real estate business. You have other businesses as well. Or are those the two big ones?
00:12:46:04 – 00:12:47:06
Engelo
That’s my bread and butter.
00:12:47:08 – 00:12:49:20
Rod
Okay. So are you a broker?
00:12:49:22 – 00:12:53:19
Engelo
No, I’m not a broker. I the officer of our companies. A licensed broker.
00:12:53:20 – 00:13:02:03
Rod
Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So and I’ve owned real estate companies that same way where I’ve got a I’ve got a namesake. Correct. A qualifier.
00:13:02:10 – 00:13:06:25
Engelo
I don’t want to abide by all of the B.S. and laws and regulations, but I’m happy being a while.
00:13:06:25 – 00:13:29:28
Rod
Yeah. Yeah, that’s funny. We just I just interviewed somebody who’s like one of the largest brokers in the world, and we didn’t talk about the any other thing. I forgot to do that, but I completely forgot. well, yeah. Yep. So let’s talk about diversification for a minute, okay? I believe focus is power. And every time that I have diversified, quote unquote, I’ve diluted that focus and everything suffers.
00:13:30:00 – 00:13:36:24
Rod
So what do you do to mitigate that when you’re investing in multiple different things so that you’re you’re not your focus is not diluted.
00:13:36:29 – 00:13:47:05
Engelo
Talking about what did I do wrong to you? You’re you’re lighting me up today. I fell out like, what did I do? You like my hat or something? Smell bad.
00:13:47:07 – 00:13:49:02
Rod
Let’s go.
00:13:49:04 – 00:14:03:11
Engelo
Okay. Let me try and make it simple. You got a nice watch on prices. What you pay value is what you get is what Warren Buffett’s is. You know, the price of your watch. If someone comes to you and you know, it’s the same watch and it’s legit for one fifth of the price, would you buy it? You probably would.
00:14:03:14 – 00:14:21:22
Engelo
So it’s not really diversification, I guess, is just taking opportunity when it presents a fair enough. My bread and butter is real estate. That’s what I know. That’s what I do. I was telling Matt earlier, I lost my house on a tech project because I didn’t know it. I was spread thin and I had my equity partner scheming off the top, which was supposed to go to the developers.
00:14:21:25 – 00:14:44:18
Engelo
So I 100% agree with you when it comes to that. Look, my, my, my funds are in my businesses in Ohio. Catherine Realty, from a personal portfolio standpoint, which you absolutely murdered me on. Right. I’m heavily invested in regional banks. So that doesn’t really take much of my focus away other than just kind of keeping my finger on the pulse of what’s going on in the economy.
00:14:44:25 – 00:14:51:13
Engelo
But all day and every day that I’m grinding away at my turnkey business and especially right now at scaling my property management company.
00:14:51:17 – 00:14:54:12
Rod
Nice, nice, nice. How many how many units are you managing?
00:14:54:13 – 00:14:54:24
Engelo
100.
00:14:54:24 – 00:14:56:07
Rod
Units. 400. Okay.
00:14:56:10 – 00:14:57:14
Engelo
Okay. We would only match.
00:14:57:14 – 00:14:59:15
Rod
And those are primarily ones you’ve sold.
00:14:59:18 – 00:15:24:10
Engelo
Correct? Single family homes, right? Only manage what we sold, right? Until I saw an opportunity in the in the Toledo market to start opening up the doors to outside investors grew 30% from last year expecting 30% growth this year. It’s absolutely booming. Absolutely booming. We didn’t even have a website for property management. But again, Toledo is notoriously known for poor property management companies that nickel and dime bad reviews.
00:15:24:10 – 00:15:42:07
Engelo
They scam folks. So we decided to open the doors to that. And look, I love the property management business. Food and shelter are the two most important things to humanity, right? Until Elon Musk’s Musk puts us on Mars. Mike People are always going to need a roof over their head. Predictable business, cash flow positive. We run a tight ship, run like a very tight ship.
00:15:42:10 – 00:15:50:01
Engelo
Property management companies usually generate 5 to 10% profits on the revenue between 30 to 40% profits. Okay.
00:15:50:04 – 00:15:51:27
Rod
Why? Why do you think.
00:15:51:29 – 00:16:03:10
Engelo
They just don’t know how to run the business? They don’t know how to optimize it, monetize and systemize it. And that’s our focus for the last couple of years. And I hate property management. For the first five years, mate, I wanted to kill myself.
00:16:03:12 – 00:16:22:20
Rod
Like it’s a thankless job. You don’t get the tenants don’t call you when they’re happy, other owners don’t call you when they’re correctly called a bitch. It typically there’s burnout in property managers, especially in single family. And I’ve had some really bad experiences with single family property management companies, you know, because it’s almost like the wild, Wild West, you know, you’ll get a broker.
00:16:22:20 – 00:16:35:00
Rod
It’s like, I’m going to be a property manager on the side and they suck. And, you know, it’s not like in our world, in the multifamily space, in large multifamily, you get very sophisticated, very seasoned, you know, professional management companies.
00:16:35:00 – 00:16:36:00
Engelo
And like to.
00:16:36:00 – 00:16:47:04
Rod
Yeah, in many instances. Exactly. And you don’t get that with residential so much and well since were were we’re you’re getting your ass kicked on this interview let’s go into turnkey you.
00:16:47:05 – 00:16:49:14
Engelo
I’m going to take my pass.
00:16:49:17 – 00:17:07:22
Rod
So I was telling you before we started recording. Yeah. That I am kind of not a huge proponent for turnkey and you know, and I told you why, and let me tell you my reasons why. And then you can you can tell me why I’m mistaken. So why I’m wrong. Just flat out wrong. I’m not mistaken. I’m wrong.
00:17:07:22 – 00:17:28:25
Rod
Let’s be let’s call it what it is. So so you know, so if you don’t know what a turnkey is, is is you’re buying a property from someone that typically is flipping it. They’ve bought it, they’ve fixed it up, they’ve put a tenant in it and, and, and they’re selling it to you ideally for market value. Sometimes, you know, some companies out there would sell it for a little more than market value.
00:17:28:27 – 00:17:53:08
Rod
But what they’re doing is they’re providing this this opportunity for you and they will likely manage the property after you buy it, or they’ll use a third party property management company. And the reason that I don’t love it is, you know, if you buy an apartment complex and and a professional management company is managing it, you’ve got leverage.
00:17:53:08 – 00:18:03:12
Rod
They don’t want to lose your business if you’ve got one house that’s 2000 miles away, you have no leverage. And so, you know, that’s reason number one.
00:18:03:15 – 00:18:06:12
Engelo
So how many reasons do you have?
00:18:06:12 – 00:18:21:26
Rod
I have more. So there’s well, reason number two is I feel like I feel like, you know, you’re not going to get a deal if you’re buying from a turnkey because the turnkey is going to make the profit because he’s the one he or she’s the one flipping the property. I know Kathy, you she’s a very good friend of mine.
00:18:22:01 – 00:18:36:14
Rod
She’s a big turnkey person clothier. So channel sales, she’s a sales team channel. yeah. She’s the marketing channel. That’s right. That’s right. She’s very good at it. She’s a good friend. And then there’s Clothier. They kick ass with it. They’re You say they’re the largest in the country.
00:18:36:16 – 00:18:37:05
Engelo
Just in the business.
00:18:37:05 – 00:19:03:25
Rod
Yeah, but. But again, you’re making the profit. The investors coming in it. It could be classified as suppose as a passive investment. I just know I’ve heard some horror stories about people that have bought a turnkey asset and then they have, you know, the property sits empty, they got no leverage. You’re getting killed on on maintenance expenses. And, you know, so come back to me.
00:19:03:25 – 00:19:04:23
Rod
Tell me why I’m wrong.
00:19:04:27 – 00:19:09:09
Engelo
Should I leave now? Hey, Rod, what’s wrong with making a profit? Last time.
00:19:09:16 – 00:19:10:04
Rod
Nothing.
00:19:10:04 – 00:19:24:26
Engelo
Was the country, right? Nothing. Feminism. So. Okay, points taken. Where do I start with you now? my God. My. Look, I know first first things. First hundred percent agree. Agreed with you? Very. Scott and Christie. Scott. Scott. Industry.
00:19:24:28 – 00:19:25:09
Rod
Very.
00:19:25:09 – 00:19:28:21
Engelo
What Scarred. Scarred it is. Let me try and do it in an American accent.
00:19:28:21 – 00:19:29:28
Rod
Scarred. Scarred in.
00:19:29:28 – 00:19:48:22
Engelo
Australia. We said I’m going to park the car at the bottom. You know what I mean? We’re going to park the car at the bar. No, very Scott industry. Okay. Proper turnkey companies are known to sell shit properties, shit renovations. C and D class assets, horrible management, horrible management, third party property management. They sell them for more than what they’re worth.
00:19:48:24 – 00:20:09:01
Engelo
And they and most of them aren’t even turnkey providers themselves. They’re sales channels that will put their name behind a turnkey provider in another market, something that we don’t do. We never did. From day one, we put our name behind every single product that we sell. What else can I tell you I don’t want to talk about? Well, the marshal and the management companies, you got to ask me question.
00:20:09:01 – 00:20:14:18
Rod
The management company. Do tell me. Tell me why. That’s tell me your solution to that is. Yes.
00:20:14:22 – 00:20:25:06
Engelo
So anyone I always say anyone can find, buy, renovate and sell a house, but not many can manage well and manage successful long term correct. So property management is vital. It’s the.
00:20:25:06 – 00:20:26:12
Rod
Most critical piece by.
00:20:26:12 – 00:20:42:12
Engelo
Far, and it’s got to be in house. Because if it’s in house, it means it’s under the same roof. I own it. I control it as the turnkey provider. If shit hits the fan, I go next door and I scream at my staff and say, What’s going on? This investable three, four, five, ten properties. We want to keep making a good return on investment for them.
00:20:42:12 – 00:20:56:14
Engelo
We want to deliver what we promised them on paper because if we don’t, they’re not going to buy from us anymore. We’ll look bad, we’ll get bad reviews. I mean, we got to even if we have to put our hand in our own pocket to fix mistakes, we do that. Third party property management companies don’t do that. Rod, You know why?
00:20:56:20 – 00:21:14:18
Engelo
What we just mentioned earlier, it’s a thankless job. Tenants complaining things aren’t getting fixed quick enough. Landlords complaining think things cost too much to fix and maintenance personnel is unreliable, so they have to nickel and dime to make payroll, to fake, to pay, to feed the family right. We don’t really have to do that because again, we make money when we sell a turnkey property.
00:21:14:24 – 00:21:31:29
Engelo
We just started making money in property management. We did it for the first five or six years because it was an absolute disaster. I hated my life with it. So that’s very, very, very important. Another thing too, I’m not flogging 100 deals a month. Rod. You don’t see me doing any property seminars, flogging from stage in the back rooms, Not my style.
00:21:32:04 – 00:21:50:04
Engelo
We sell 4 to 5 properties per month max. Every investor goes through me, I pitch every investor. It’s a small, boutique, niche type company. We’re not in any other market except Toledo. I own it, I live it, I breathe it. That’s my market. That’s what I know. Why fix it if it’s not broken? So keep it small, keep it boutique, keep it exclusive.
00:21:50:06 – 00:22:16:16
Engelo
We only do five deals a month. I only work with cash investors. No financing. Why? I don’t believe in it. Number one, I don’t believe in beginners. Building the foundation of the portfolio with leverage, especially when they don’t know the heartbeat of the income and expenses of that portfolio. And number two, our price points are so low entry sub $100,000 that you can just purchase that with cash, because normally on the East Coast, the West Coast, it’s literally half a parking spot for the same price.
00:22:16:18 – 00:22:40:22
Engelo
Another thing, too, you know, when people ask me why Toledo, I joke around and say, because the beautiful beaches in the weather, it’s because I’ve never seen any other market in the world and I’ve bought property all over the world where you get a bit of bang for your buck. So 65 to 80, $90,000 properties. Rod B-class areas, what is, what is a B class area in my eyes, close to infrastructure, heavily owner occupied cars with wheels, yards well mowed.
00:22:40:24 – 00:23:03:00
Engelo
Everyone’s employed and sophisticated enough to pay the rent online, so I’m not banging on doors, collecting rents with a bulletproof vest and shotgun. Okay, that is what our price points normally is. A C or D, class S, high crime, lot of volatility, government subsidies, and no one pays on line. They pay with cash. And unfortunately, these properties look the most attractive on paper and they’re easy sells to unsuspecting investors.
00:23:03:07 – 00:23:24:15
Engelo
My properties produce 8% net returns year after year, so there’s no smoke and mirrors. That’s what it is. And that’s our approach. We turn down a lot of business, make again, withstood the test of time and I 100% agree with you turnkey sucks. There’s a stigma. I’ve done a lot of videos and blogs on this. The turnkey in the turnkey industry is crap, but you do have a few providers out there that allege it, but not many.
00:23:24:18 – 00:23:33:19
Rod
Okay. Okay, fair enough. Question Are you self-educated? Did you learn under a mentor about real estate? Talk about your real estate educational process.
00:23:33:22 – 00:23:54:13
Engelo
Personal development might what Jim Ron says formal education will earn a living. Personal development will give you a lifestyle love. It will make trial and error, made a lot of mistakes, lost a lot of money. You pick yourself back up, you keep moving forward. You don’t make the same mistake again and you learn from your experiences. But yeah, look, I’ve had I’ve had people that were very influential in my life.
00:23:54:13 – 00:24:11:25
Engelo
Yeah. In Australia, here in the US, there’s a few folks maybe you and I can get together to Matt. I want to learn the multifamily industry because I’ve listened to quite a lot of your well, thank you for your interviews and I do believe that’s the next step from single family homes. That is the next step.
00:24:11:25 – 00:24:21:17
Rod
Well, opportunity is coming, brother. Opportunity is coming. I actually believe that we’re headed for a bit of a shit show. And that’s why I was a little nervous about your regional bank holdings.
00:24:21:17 – 00:24:24:09
Engelo
But I still love you. It’s like, okay, well.
00:24:24:11 – 00:24:49:01
Rod
I hope you still love me. If, if, if it does what I think it’s going to do. Because anyway, so. So let’s shift gears a little bit. You’re a freaking driver. Okay. Let’s talk about lifestyle a little bit. You know, because I’m trying to slow my life down. I I’m I’m getting thrust back into, you know, property management myself right now because I’m be taking over a lot of assets that someone else was managing for me.
00:24:49:01 – 00:24:59:17
Rod
So, you know, but I’m trying to, you know, trying to live more of a lifestyle. I took three cruises in the last six months, you know, trying to see. Yeah. What’s what’s your comment on that?
00:24:59:19 – 00:25:03:23
Engelo
You have to Yeah. You just have to come to the realization when enough is enough.
00:25:03:24 – 00:25:04:03
Rod
Yeah.
00:25:04:09 – 00:25:22:11
Engelo
And for me it was I just couldn’t do it anymore. Yeah. Burnt out times five, you know, doubling profits every year, doubling revenue every year for the first five years. Nice. It was all good and great. I won the awards. Rod, bought the cars, bought the watches, bought the holiday homes, keeping up with the Joneses, comparing who is this bigger, you know what I mean?
00:25:22:14 – 00:25:41:20
Engelo
But stomach ulcers, kidney stones, anxiety, it takes its toll on you. And then, you know, I took a step back a couple of years ago. I’m kind of back in the grind now. Different, smarter in a much different way. And I came full circle. I really came to the realization that, you know, it’s it’s not about adding another zero to the bank account.
00:25:41:26 – 00:25:59:21
Engelo
It’s about spending the meaningful time with people that matter, which is your mother, your father, your brother, your sister, your wife, even your ex-wife. You’ve been there might win that. You know what I mean? Great woman. And we’re still in business together. We still work together. You know what I mean? So but this is this is what matters the most, in my opinion.
00:25:59:21 – 00:26:08:29
Engelo
And the sooner that people can wake up and smell the roses and come to that realization, I think it’s going to be better for them because time flies. We’re not getting any younger. Our loved ones aren’t getting any younger.
00:26:09:01 – 00:26:12:20
Rod
So let me ask you this. Do you think you could do it while you’re on the path to success?
00:26:12:23 – 00:26:13:18
Engelo
You know.
00:26:13:20 – 00:26:14:08
Rod
You can’t.
00:26:14:08 – 00:26:16:29
Engelo
No, I don’t believe I don’t believe in work life balance.
00:26:16:29 – 00:26:18:29
Rod
Okay. So that’s why it’s one of the other.
00:26:18:29 – 00:26:40:25
Engelo
One of the other. Because because if you want to make money and you want to succeed, you have to live it, breathe it all day and every day and things. You’re going to have to sacrifice a lot of things. And that’s probably going to be personal relationships with loved ones. But my opinion and it happened to me. But, you know, I came full circle, got rid of all of the materialistic possessions, made me lighter, a lot lighter.
00:26:41:00 – 00:26:59:22
Engelo
I don’t really feel like I still have nice things, but I don’t really focus on that anymore. I started reading a lot of religious writings. Stoicism has been big for me. Meditation, believe it or not, this guy meditates. I do. And it puts me in a in a very it puts me in a place of calm and peace throughout the day when when shit gets crazy.
00:26:59:24 – 00:27:02:10
Rod
I don’t see you as a stoic sorry.
00:27:02:18 – 00:27:13:06
Engelo
yeah, my you’d be said no. You’d be surprised. You’d be surprised, right? Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of internal thought process that happens before certain actions are made or certain things are set.
00:27:13:09 – 00:27:13:14
Rod
that’s.
00:27:13:14 – 00:27:17:00
Engelo
Good. Meditation allows me to put a pause between reacting.
00:27:17:02 – 00:27:30:22
Rod
you know, that’s something I’m working on right now. I literally just interviewed my coach here, and because I’m too reactionary, I speak without without stopping to think about it, and I’m literally in coaching for it right now. It’s so funny you say that.
00:27:30:25 – 00:27:35:22
Engelo
Meditation is made. It’s the weirdest, craziest subject.
00:27:35:22 – 00:27:38:03
Rod
So how do you meditate? Do you use an app or what do you do?
00:27:38:03 – 00:27:40:08
Engelo
No, just mindful meditation. I no religious.
00:27:40:11 – 00:27:46:28
Rod
So so no, I’m not talking about religious based, but I’m talking about, you know, something that that quiets you and talks to you while you’re.
00:27:46:28 – 00:28:03:10
Engelo
Doing your apple headphones on. Yeah. Set the alarm for 5 minutes. You’ve got various meditation apps, close your eyes and focus on your breath. Right. That’s it. Think about your breath. Your mind’s going to wonder in seven, nine and different directions. You have to be cognizant enough to catch yourself in the thought and bring yourself back to the breath is just an excuse.
00:28:03:10 – 00:28:03:20
Engelo
You only.
00:28:03:20 – 00:28:04:02
Rod
Do five.
00:28:04:02 – 00:28:10:16
Engelo
Minutes, 5 minutes, increase it to 10 to 15. The most I got to was 40 minutes of quiet room, complete silence every day doing.
00:28:10:17 – 00:28:11:19
Rod
Sitting or reclining.
00:28:11:19 – 00:28:13:22
Engelo
Or however you want. Okay, that’s it.
00:28:13:25 – 00:28:14:18
Rod
You fall asleep.
00:28:14:24 – 00:28:17:12
Engelo
No, I want to stay. I want to stay conscious.
00:28:17:12 – 00:28:18:10
Rod
Okay. Okay.
00:28:18:10 – 00:28:38:23
Engelo
And you will find after three, four, five, six months to incredible. Yeah, incredible. Someone cuts you off in the traffic. Your first instinct is right. Tell them to go and fuck themselves. Right? Right. And to get in front of them and get out of the car. This is. This puts a pause between you doing that and it brings you back to your breath, which is the exercise of the mind throughout the meditation.
00:28:38:26 – 00:28:56:00
Engelo
Right? Because your breathing, your eyes are closed, your thoughts are wandering 17 million different directions, but you keep catching yourself in the thought, bringing yourself back to your breath. So in certain instances, in business or life, it automatically happens. It’s like auto suggestion. It’s auto. You automate your mind to catch yourself and bring yourself back to the breath before you do something stupid.
00:28:56:03 – 00:29:10:23
Rod
Well, well, that’s helpful for me, I’ll be honest, because I have not been meditating. I’ve really been giving it a lot of thought. I used to a little bit, but I feel like I’m in a place right now where I need it based on all the things that are happening for me. So no, I love it.
00:29:10:29 – 00:29:12:06
Engelo
But it’s not overnight, mate.
00:29:12:08 – 00:29:14:01
Rod
no, I got it now. I got. It’s a lot of work.
00:29:14:01 – 00:29:23:09
Engelo
Yeah, it is a lot of work. You need to find the time to do it and you don’t want to do it. But I hate doing it. Honestly. I hate going to the gym. I hate the gym. Really? I mean.
00:29:23:12 – 00:29:23:24
Rod
I love the.
00:29:23:24 – 00:29:37:04
Engelo
Gym. I hate it with the passion. But I like looking good and I like being fit. And I know how much it helps me deal with everything throughout the day. Fit body equals fit mind, right? Yeah. I hate meditating, but I do it. There’s a lot of things that I hate doing, but I do it every day because it makes me a better person.
00:29:37:04 – 00:29:40:07
Engelo
It makes me more relaxed, you know? Interesting. I hate reading. I can’t.
00:29:40:07 – 00:29:42:03
Rod
Read. So you listen to audio?
00:29:42:04 – 00:30:05:12
Engelo
No, I read a lot. I hate it because I listen to audio. My stupid brain doesn’t register it because I’m listening to audio smoke in my cigar and looking at the stars, you know? And it’s like, I don’t want to be there. But, you know, reading the daily stoic and Jesus calling and stuff like that, it’s incredible. If you really read it and reread it and reread it, because I have to to register it in my thick head, then you can implement the teachings from that into into everyday life.
00:30:05:12 – 00:30:23:05
Rod
You know, I teach my students to associate pleasure with things that they don’t like right now because I believe you can learn to love anything if you do that, you know? So if it’s exercise, you bring music and you just associate pleasure. If it’s, you know, if you don’t love real estate, for example, I tell people, associate pleasure with it.
00:30:23:05 – 00:30:30:09
Rod
Look at it like you’re hunting for buried treasure, because that’s really what you’re doing. And you know, and, and yeah, but.
00:30:30:11 – 00:30:35:03
Engelo
I like that analogy. Matt and I always said every experience is a good experience as long as you perceive it to be.
00:30:35:06 – 00:30:56:08
Rod
Well, that’s right. And you know what I mean? So, you know, if you, if you affirming that you that you really hate something over and over again, your brain is listening. So true. You know. So a question I like to ask is, you know in a person’s journey, if they had any epiphanies like, like an okay now I freakin get it moment.
00:30:56:11 – 00:31:00:21
Rod
So think about your real estate journey and if anything comes to mind with that statement.
00:31:00:24 – 00:31:12:16
Engelo
So the epiphany or a life changing moment for me was when I was burnt out times, fights and I literally in a way wanted to give it all away. I just couldn’t do it anymore. I was so virtual assistance, right? Saved my life.
00:31:12:16 – 00:31:13:12
Rod
Yeah.
00:31:13:14 – 00:31:27:07
Engelo
Virtual assistants. Integrating them the right way was a blessing in disguise for me. I couldn’t believe it. I never believe because, look, being an entrepreneur, you always want to have in-house stuff because I want to touch him, see him, feel empowered. No, no, not in that way.
00:31:27:07 – 00:31:27:15
Rod
Right.
00:31:27:16 – 00:31:46:00
Engelo
In a in a in a in a entrepreneurial way. Right. A figure of speech. Everyone figure of speech. That’s kind of why we are entrepreneurs and business owners. We take pride in creating something that can feed everyone else. Right? And I got burnt. Mike So many times I’ll never have a business partner again. Yeah, I lost $2 million.
00:31:46:00 – 00:32:08:15
Engelo
I stopped counting at $2 million, mate. How much? I’ve been screwed. And in my former CEO embezzled $250,000 from US Contractors, contractors, contractors. You can’t win with those guys anyway. Integrating virtual assistants into our operations from every little nitty gritty thing that we do. We spent three months. This was my. This was my Hail Mary, as they say in NFL.
00:32:08:15 – 00:32:22:05
Engelo
Yeah. So we’ve got a company that we work with that we spent three months recording videos, training on every little step. And the the remote workers are in the Philippines.
00:32:22:05 – 00:32:23:23
Rod
They’re in the Philippines right then. Yeah.
00:32:23:25 – 00:32:44:04
Engelo
So you’re living there for six months. Beautiful people. Yeah. And we’ve got four on board right now. We’re looking at scaling. Everyone’s trained to do exactly what they need to do. Perfect English, great people, hard working. If one remote worker decides to leave or is sick, does a backup ready trained to fill the spot if we need to scale the ready training.
00:32:44:06 – 00:32:49:02
Rod
So using a company for this then yes. Yeah. Now what are you paying per hour?
00:32:49:05 – 00:32:51:14
Engelo
We pay 1800 dollars a month.
00:32:51:16 – 00:32:52:22
Rod
For how many for one person.
00:32:52:22 – 00:32:53:17
Engelo
One person.
00:32:53:20 – 00:32:55:16
Rod
Do the math on that hourly for me.
00:32:55:18 – 00:32:56:19
Engelo
Around ten bucks an hour.
00:32:56:20 – 00:33:14:12
Rod
It’s ten. Okay? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So. So, you know, it’s interesting. When I was getting back into real estate at eight Vas in the Philippines. Yep, six of them. I was paying a dollar 93 an hour each. I had six people under 12 bucks an hour and people were like, You scumbag. You know, they were thrilled to get it, you know?
00:33:14:13 – 00:33:14:20
Rod
I mean.
00:33:14:20 – 00:33:22:12
Engelo
Salary in the Philippines is sorry to interject. You’re right. It’s $3. No, I lived. I lived there for six months. Wow. Beautiful people. $3 a day is the average salary.
00:33:22:12 – 00:33:39:27
Rod
Wow. Yes. So? So they were thrilled to get it. I’ve actually shifted to Latin America. I’ve got to kick ass a two or three, three, three, three in Latin America right now that are just killer. And what I like about that is they’re on our time zone. So, you know, in the Philippines, they have to work graveyard shift to work for you.
00:33:39:27 – 00:33:55:25
Rod
Yeah. So it’s got to be harder for them. It is. But but in Latin America now. But I will tell you, you know, I so I had to I had eight virtual assistants. Six of the all nine three had to they spoke English better than I did. So like they were from frickin Wyoming and they were like four bucks an hour just, you know, Vas are fantastic.
00:33:55:25 – 00:34:11:09
Rod
And, you know, as an entrepreneur, you may have heard me say this before, you know, I always get asked, you know, I need to I need to start building my team. Who should I hire first? It’s always an assistant, always. And if it can be a VA, that’s even better. The only thing with a virtual assistant is you’re not going to tell them to go do something.
00:34:11:12 – 00:34:26:10
Rod
You have to do those training videos. You have to lay it out for them, you know, step by step and teach them. But they’re fantastic. Once they know the system, they’re just don’t expect a lot of out of the box thinking unless you’re going hire and you’re going to hire somebody that’s got degrees in certain things and things.
00:34:26:10 – 00:34:27:06
Engelo
That you might as well stay.
00:34:27:06 – 00:34:36:08
Rod
In-House. Well, no, you know, you could actually you know, you can hire people that have legal degrees and everything for like 12 bucks an hour. I mean, it blow your mind what you can get.
00:34:36:10 – 00:34:46:15
Engelo
So, look, I know a lot of other companies, obviously, including yourself, they do it in-house themselves. I personally do not have the courage to do that because I don’t want to go through the training again if I bring someone else on.
00:34:46:17 – 00:35:07:28
Rod
Yeah, got it. No, no. I mean, you know, listen, at eight bucks an hour, that’s that’s fantastic. Yeah. You know, and, and, you know, we do take the time to train and we’ve got, like I say, some kick ass people. So it’s, it’s really good. So, you know, you’ve, you’ve started looking, you’ve said you smoke three cigars a day now so you started looking at life through a lifestyle filter.
00:35:08:03 – 00:35:12:11
Rod
What part of what you do do you enjoy the most.
00:35:12:13 – 00:35:15:26
Engelo
mate, what part of what I do do I enjoy? Yeah.
00:35:15:26 – 00:35:18:14
Rod
What’s your favorite part of the job.
00:35:18:16 – 00:35:44:07
Engelo
Mate? I love I love the the potential of scaling. Like right now my big focus especially is property management with shifted. It used to be 70% turnkey, 30% property management and I shifted to 70% property management to 30% turnkey. So what I love doing, which is very weird, is kind of the the thought process behind the systemize optimize, monetize, right.
00:35:44:07 – 00:36:12:26
Engelo
For example, we just introduced deposit insurance for, for all of our tenants so they don’t have to come up with too much out of pocket upon moving or systemized, all automated. But we still control the deposits on the back can save saving 20 hours of time every couple of weeks for my team introduced an affiliate marketing service to in to optimize our revenue right where we we didn’t charge rent we didn’t it wasn’t mandatory to have renters insurance with our property management company.
00:36:12:26 – 00:36:36:08
Engelo
We just introduced that from a liability standpoint to protect our landlords, to protect the tenants themselves and us as the property management company. So and this is through a company called Second Nature, right Well, we make a few bucks on top. They help them with moving services. They help folks with $1 million fraud and identity prevention. They also send a furnace filters through once a year.
00:36:36:14 – 00:36:59:06
Engelo
Wow. And they have renters insurance. And there’s a lot of other little perks there, right? Well, that’s cool. So that’s another thing that we just incorporated. We incorporated a property maintenance software called Property Melt. So when a tenant submits a maintenance repair request, it automatically gets siphoned through to our technicians. And we are in between just monitoring everything and looking at making sure.
00:36:59:09 – 00:37:00:05
Rod
It’s not you.
00:37:00:08 – 00:37:28:01
Engelo
Know, we don’t even have to do that because it’s automatically scheduled with the maintenance technician. There’s a time and date that is scheduled. They code it, they correspond between each other, but we track it all and we see it all. So we in a way which sucks, but we eliminated two in-house roles. Well, with this, with the software, we already have digital lock boxes, but now we’re looking to incorporate completely automated digital lock boxes so our virtual assistants or remote workers do not have to check everyone’s ID before we give them access to go and look at the home themselves.
00:37:28:01 – 00:37:50:13
Engelo
It’s all going to be done online and virtual. You’ve got companies like rental that does it and tenant turner. We’re still evaluating who we want on board for that. So that’s kind of my big focus. Look, it’s nitty gritty. It’s tough. I don’t really like it per se, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I see how much it’s impacting our operations, how much it’s impacting my staff and how much it’s impacting our bottom line.
00:37:50:19 – 00:38:06:28
Engelo
And I never thought I would say this right, But we’re at a point right now where I’m looking at M&A like I’m looking at buying another company in town and putting and bringing it bringing the book of business to us because we can scale without a problem. Like without a problem, we can double our business overnight and not skip a beat because of how automated we are Now.
00:38:06:28 – 00:38:18:19
Rod
That’s fantastic. I have you incorporated any business operating systems and what I mean by that, the one that I like to talk about is is from a book called Traction.
00:38:18:19 – 00:38:39:17
Engelo
Yeah, you know. WICKMAN Yeah. Did it implemented it dropped off with it really yet I keep the operation is very tight, very boutique, very exclusive in a way. We still have similar principles. And I love that approach. Yeah, I love that. Really do. In a way, we still have similar principles, but we don’t do level ten meetings. We don’t have quarterly rocks.
00:38:39:20 – 00:38:42:16
Engelo
That’s just more kind of.
00:38:42:19 – 00:39:01:21
Rod
it’s been a game changer for us, man. It really has because we’re focused on short term goals and we meet most of them and and now we haven’t implemented it the right way yet. Like, like completely. Because, you know, you got to have the right seats in the bus and things like that and have an implementer and all that, which we didn’t do.
00:39:01:21 – 00:39:06:01
Rod
But it’s been a game changer for us in any in all my businesses.
00:39:06:03 – 00:39:15:13
Engelo
It did it did it when when I was grinding. I’m still grinding now but again, smarter more different did it. And then where it fell apart is when the integrator left.
00:39:15:16 – 00:39:17:06
Rod
Got you got, you got him. Yeah.
00:39:17:06 – 00:39:18:01
Engelo
Right. That’s work.
00:39:18:03 – 00:39:20:18
Rod
So you actually had an integration. yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.
00:39:20:21 – 00:39:32:14
Engelo
I mean we had departments, we had the but I completely scaled back my Have you. And now we’re leaner and meaner like it’s much, it’s a much better operation, It’s much more profitable and our investors are much happier now.
00:39:32:20 – 00:39:33:02
Rod
Gotcha.
00:39:33:02 – 00:39:33:09
Engelo
You know.
00:39:33:10 – 00:39:53:13
Rod
So gotcha. Yeah. So you know, I have a lot of aspiring real estate investors that listen to the show. You know, they know they want to do multifamily. They know they want to do something with their lives beyond what they have right now. Not to say their lives are terrible, but they they know they deserve and want more for themselves and their families.
00:39:53:15 – 00:39:57:03
Rod
What words of inspiration could you give them?
00:39:57:05 – 00:40:15:02
Engelo
Right. You live in the best country in the world. What are you talking about? God bless America. I whenever I come back to my darkest the bloody floor and I’ve lived all over the bureaucracy, the corruption, the politics all over the world. It’s a fucking joke. This is the best country in the world. If I can come here and you from wherever the fuck we came here and do what we did.
00:40:15:06 – 00:40:33:14
Engelo
Give me a break. You’re telling me you can’t? Come on, man. Do it. Just. Just do it. Like you’re probably going to make mistakes. You’re not going to make money straight away, but learn from the mistakes. Don’t give up and keep moving forward. If that means buying a single family home, if that means going into multifamily wholesaling, being a realtor, if you’re looking at doing something in real estate, just do it.
00:40:33:14 – 00:40:36:07
Engelo
Stop flirting with it. Come on. We need to. We need to get down and dirty.
00:40:36:07 – 00:40:37:13
Rod
Just frickin do it.
00:40:37:13 – 00:40:37:28
Engelo
Just do it.
00:40:38:00 – 00:40:55:24
Rod
I love it. I love free people. You know, they think the success comes like it’s a straight line to success. Talk about a time you got your ass handed to me. Handed to you a war story. Talk about I come home strong. Yeah. All right, well, talk about it. Talk about a doozy. Okay. A one where you just got your butt handed to you.
00:40:55:24 – 00:40:58:24
Rod
I call them seminars, you know. So talk about one of those.
00:40:58:24 – 00:41:02:15
Engelo
Yeah. You know, on my LinkedIn page, it says I finished the Harvard degree of mistakes.
00:41:02:18 – 00:41:05:05
Rod
I love it. I love it. I love it.
00:41:05:08 – 00:41:08:07
Engelo
Well, mate, I mean, I can I can talk to you about this for days.
00:41:08:09 – 00:41:10:01
Rod
Well, certainly with contractors.
00:41:10:01 – 00:41:14:04
Engelo
Contracts, you can’t win that. Yeah, it’s just just the cost of doing business the way I feel.
00:41:14:04 – 00:41:15:11
Rod
You can’t. You can’t.
00:41:15:12 – 00:41:32:07
Engelo
Okay, Well, he’s a big one. Is a big one. A big one is this trust, but always verify. Right. Okay. And you know, we’ve got three or four crews right now that do it that are doing great work for us. Over the past, it was the same and we got a little bit lazy with verifying the work before we cut a check.
00:41:32:10 – 00:41:51:14
Engelo
So I got done for 32 grand once I’ve had contractors might take a draw, buy a boat, take a draw, buy a car, take a draw, take the wife on a holiday, take a draw, buy drugs, take draw, buy materials, use them on another job. The list goes on. And so that would be a big one. Trust but verify.
00:41:51:16 – 00:42:07:17
Engelo
You can’t have two cooks in a kitchen. So forget about having a business partner. In my opinion, unless your business partner is going to be completely passive and just offer the capital and stay out of your business. Or you have to have set terms in regards to what they’re getting paid, how much they’re getting paid, but they cannot tell you how.
00:42:07:21 – 00:42:24:05
Rod
What if you’ve got what if you’ve got alternate personality types like in the multifamily space? I’m going to tell you it is a team sport. You’re going to have partners and and you know, some of the best partnerships I see are an analytical person. They’re not going person. That’s that’s a match.
00:42:24:05 – 00:42:27:22
Engelo
Made You’ll find a mega dozen the penny dropped with you you still kind of well.
00:42:27:22 – 00:42:38:14
Rod
Yeah the outgoing outgoing person very often is the mouthpiece and they’re typically the driver because the analytical person is usually more introverted. Yeah. And that works. That works very, very well. So you have nothing against that then?
00:42:38:17 – 00:42:55:05
Engelo
Nothing against that if you can make it work. Before I used to say you can’t work with family, but I’ve seen a lot of family businesses do very well like origination, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I kind of eat my words a lot of the time, but I say what’s on my mind? I say, I think, mate, what else?
00:42:55:05 – 00:43:00:00
Engelo
Look, he’s a big one. I got done by FDX with that with the crypto.
00:43:00:02 – 00:43:00:20
Rod
you lost some money.
00:43:00:20 – 00:43:17:20
Engelo
Almost half a million dollars on that. I kept my, I kept my keys, no keys, no tokens because I was trading a little bit. So I left the I left the tokens on the platform because who would have thought FCX was going to go bust. But look, I’m back in the game again. I’m still investing. I’m just not making the same mistakes.
00:43:17:20 – 00:43:34:19
Engelo
So now I control all of the all of the crypto on my on my laptop right here. So don’t even look at it. No, but I mean, that’s kind of a message for everyone listening is, you know, you are going to get your ass handed to you on a plate, but if you if you cook mad and you get burnt, does that mean you’re going to stop cooking?
00:43:34:19 – 00:43:39:04
Engelo
Well, how are you going to eat? How are you going to survive? Right. Anita, you need to keep cooking again and keep trying.
00:43:39:06 – 00:44:00:19
Rod
As an entrepreneur, you’re like a shark. You only die if you stop swimming. There you go. Yeah. You know, with what you know now and you’ve you’ve done a lot of real estate, a lot of single family. Are you want to get into multifamily? Well, you know, you I can help you with that. But you know, if you could go back and tell 18 year old Angelos something, you know, about what with what you know now, is there anything you might do differently?
00:44:00:19 – 00:44:03:13
Rod
What what’s the lesson you might show your younger self?
00:44:03:13 – 00:44:17:27
Engelo
I was just telling Matt earlier, mate, I get that question asked quite often and what I always used to say I would never do it again. It wasn’t worth it. That’s funny. I would never do it again. But I changed my mind on that. Yeah, I would do it again, but I would do it much slower.
00:44:17:29 – 00:44:18:18
Rod
Slower?
00:44:18:20 – 00:44:45:12
Engelo
Yeah. Interesting. So love me, Love me. My grant card. Done. I wish I went bigger soon when I emailed them. You have one regret. What would you do differently? He just responded to me, Said I would have went bigger sooner. That’s all good and great, but personally I would have went slower. Right. And I’ll tell you why. Doubling revenue, doubling profits for the first five years, burning out, not wanting to do it again, and then where you’re at or growing at 10% per annum and being able to do it for the next 50 years, you’re going to have a much stronger foundation.
00:44:45:12 – 00:44:52:10
Engelo
You’re not going to burn out, you’re not going to lose relationship with loved ones. And I think slow and steady wins the race.
00:44:52:13 – 00:45:09:08
Rod
I don’t I don’t disagree at all. I don’t disagree at all. In fact, I just had to caution one of my warriors that’s pushing a thousand units about he’s going a little too fast. And I said, man, you know, you got a lot of plate spin and be careful. We had a conversation. He’s going to be okay, but no good, good answer.
00:45:09:11 – 00:45:13:24
Rod
Is there a book that you gift to people that ask you how to get into this business?
00:45:13:27 – 00:45:15:03
Engelo
I do. What is book?
00:45:15:09 – 00:45:17:14
Rod
You have a book? Yeah, of course. What’s your book?
00:45:17:15 – 00:45:19:09
Engelo
The Real Truth to Success in Real Estate.
00:45:19:09 – 00:45:20:18
Rod
The Raw truth of Success.
00:45:20:18 – 00:45:22:20
Engelo
I don’t like. I don’t like my publisher. I’ll give it to you.
00:45:22:21 – 00:45:28:11
Rod
Yeah, that’s funny. That’s really just for free.
00:45:28:13 – 00:45:29:19
Engelo
Email me. I’ll send it to you.
00:45:29:19 – 00:45:41:11
Rod
Okay, Fair enough. That’s funny. Last question. If you could teach school children something that they’re not getting right now, what might it be?
00:45:41:13 – 00:45:57:21
Engelo
Don’t go to school. All schoolchildren might look, it would probably have to be related to. To money. Yeah, and business and entrepreneurship. But your school doesn’t teach you that. No. Look, I mean. I mean, that’s probably an answer that everyone’s going to give you. That’s good. But it’s.
00:45:57:21 – 00:45:58:06
Rod
The truth.
00:45:58:06 – 00:45:59:18
Engelo
But they’re not taught.
00:45:59:18 – 00:46:07:13
Rod
They don’t teach your finance. They don’t teach you how to be an entrepreneur. And the professors teach business in school. Never had a business so. Correct. They don’t know it either.
00:46:07:13 – 00:46:08:15
Engelo
What bullshit is that? Right.
00:46:08:15 – 00:46:22:13
Rod
Exactly. So. And the good answer. Good answer. Well, listen, Angelo, I appreciate you coming out here, brother. It’s very much a pleasure to meet you. And you’re beautiful. You’re a real hoot. And I really enjoyed this conversation, so let’s definitely stay in touch, man.
00:46:22:16 – 00:46:25:05
Engelo
Thanks. Would love to come back again.
00:46:25:06 – 00:46:27:18
Rod
All right, well, let’s make it happen, brother. You go. All right.
