Ep #557 – The Power of the Rent Multiplier

Terrance Doyle started in Denver with single family homes and soon discovered the power of the rent multiplier. Here’s some of what we talked about:

  • Focus is Power
  • Getting in front of market trends
  • Launching a Fund
  • Building your lead sources
  • Real Estate Funds
  • Burning the boats
  • Being comfortable making mistakes
  • Mistakes are feedback
  • Constant and never-ending improvement
  • Book Recommendation “Shoe Dog” by Phil Knight

To find out more about our guest:

Full Transcript Below:

Rod: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build a Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing.” I’m Rod Khleif and I am absolutely freaking thrilled that you’re here. And we are going to have a great episode today. The guy I’m interviewing, his name is Terrance Doyle and he’s one of the hosts of the Tribe of Multifamily Mentors which is a Bigger Pockets Podcast and you know I’ve had his friend Brandon on the show, Brandon Turner on my show and it’s just a great group of people and so I’m really excited. He’s in 600 doors but he’s done a lot more than that, so very excited to get into it with him and actually check out his podcast as well. Terrance, welcome the show brother

Terrance: Rod, thanks a lot for having me

Rod: Yeah let’s have some

Terrance: I’m warming up just looking at your background there

Rod: Yeah thank you. Yeah you know I love, I could be a poster child for the Florida Chamber of Commerce and you know you’re in Denver and of course that’s my old stomping ground, went to high school there and had lots of property there at one time. And so you know we’ve got that in common but you know tell us a little bit about your story. It’s it’s fascinating what you’ve accomplished so far and so just take us back and and bring us to today if you could

Terrance: Yeah well first of all I’m a big fan of everything you put out. I think you’ve offered tremendous value to myself and as well as so many investors and people that follow you around the country. So first of all just an honor to be here and love the stuff you put out and thrilled to be able to have a conversation with you and just be able to connect. So you know I was born in Des Moines, Iowa. Both my parents were immigrants. My dad’s from Canada, my mom is from Bogota, Colombia. She came to a school called Drake University in Des Moines and that’s where they met and early in my life I think five years old was the first time they put me on a plane and I went by myself to colombia and spent the summer there and basically every year I was either going to school there or visiting for two or three months and so you know being in a third world country was like just part of my childhood, learning a second language was really integral to my I think upbringing and the way I was raised. And so super thankful for my parents you know for that experience and I think that’s really you know created a lot of the values and work ethic that have helped me get to where I’m at today. So that was kind of my childhood I was you know homeschooled for a lot growing up you know grew up in a really conservative Christian home and really just had fundamental values of just faith and you know treating other people the way you want to be treated you know things things like that things you’re going to learn kind of in a small city like Des Moines in the midwest of the country. So in college, I started a company with two of my college teammates. I was fortunate enough to play college basketball and it was called Oxi Fresh Carpet Cleaning and basically this was right as the economy was starting to tank. So it was like 2007, people are losing their jobs they’re looking to get into owning their own business that we were in the service industry the one thing we knew how to do was we knew how to get the phones to ring and so we were able to, we had some success and I was 21-22 we were selling you know within three years we sold like 180 franchise units which was why, I mean I had no idea you know my dad didn’t go to college my mom you know was you know English was her second language so you know owning a business, owning real estate was never a thought for me growing up. And so that was my first exposure into being an entrepreneur owning my own business and then I was able to parlay that into buying foreclosures at the public trustee sale in Denver. So 2008 one of my other buddies comes to me and says, hey we’re going to start buying foreclosures. I had no idea what a foreclosure was at the time I had to have him walk me through, okay explain to me how this works you know I didn’t even I didn’t even own a home at the time and we were doing pretty well financially but I had no idea what it meant to buy a foreclosure, own a home. And so fast forward you know four or five years later we were doing 100 flips a year you know we had, I had funded the first one I think the first flip we bought was like 50, and you’ll appreciate this because you know Denver, we bought you know 2008 you could buy homes in Denver for 50,000-60,000. And that was just you could find them everywhere what was hard to find then was capital and obviously the market today is the inverse of that. So that was my first experience in real estate. I still didn’t understand real estate the fundamentals or anything it was just I knew that if you had cash, you could show up at the public trustee sale, you could get any deal you wanted and then we were basically, we’d call clean and flip back then we would have you know crews that were just doing paint and carpet and then we would list it or we had buyers that were already investors that were holding single family rentals. So it was really you know kind of turn key

Rod: Let me stop you for one second just because you’ve like triggered memories in my head that I haven’t thought about in 20 years. I literally used to go to the Denver trustees office downtown every single day every weekday for like almost a decade and I would get the foreclosures and I would go knock on the doors of people in foreclosure. And so that really resonated with me. And then you said you bought properties for 50 to 60 grand. Well listen to this, I bought properties for 20 and 30 grand okay all over in Denver and Aurora and North Aurora and yeah anyway so please continue I just it was just like you know crazy to hear this stuff

Terrance: You and I definitely have the same pain point there because had we held if we would have known we were doing if we knew what we knew now, we would have held those and you and I would both be on yachts like parallel to each other like surfing down the coast

Rod: You know before we started recording, I told you you know I had 500 houses there and they’d be free and clear right now and I mean easily be netting 800 maybe even a million a month and just insanity

Terrance: Yeah average rents in Denver for a single family are definitely two thousand dollars. So yeah, you’d be a millionaire yeah so you know that’s how we started in 2014 you know I had a lot, so through that time you know I was an entrepreneur so we also, I was basically just connected capital and we had operators and we were doing some stuff in Tampa, we were doing some stuff in Vegas and L.A. and I was just kind of the person we had some capital that we had raised and we knew that you could buy foreclosures but at that same time we got into some tech, some startup stuff. We actually started a sports agency so I was helping clients you know managing their careers negotiating their marketing, negotiating their contracts. At one point we had six or seven clients in the NBA and a bunch of guys overseas. So at my core I was an entrepreneur and I just love the action of being able to put deals together and help people and you know just provide value through creating opportunity. But through that, you know we lost a lot of money in tech, we lost a bunch of money in sports. I remember you know one of my top clients you know he had played on an NBA championship team and we were really close and we had been together for four or five years I mean I probably had like five you know six or seven years into this relationship you know and we were you know in sports you know you’re it’s kind of like the Jeremy guy thing you’re talking every single day I mean I was helping him with everything and yeah he just sends me a termination letter in the mail not even a phone call or anything. I mean I was at the time maybe I was 28-29 I was really close to getting engaged. So here I was like wanting to start a family, I was wanting to settle down and you know like the majority of my income from that time was from this one client and it was really heartbreaking really hard. And so I went through a bunch of you know even though we had some really success you know with flipping some houses and you know you know Oxyfresh, I definitely had a lot of monumental failures along the way. And basically in 2014 I was kind of like all right let me start over, I really want to get married, I want to start a family I’m going gonna let go of all the sports stuff all the tech stuff and I’m just gonna double down on real estate you know and it was kind of like a light bulb moment I had a conversation with my now father-in-law who’s very wise, someone I really respect and look up to and you know we were just talking about you know some life things you know like how to have a healthy marriage, how to have a healthy family, you know how to build something of value long term you know instead of being involved in so many different things which I was at that time. He was like man why don’t you pick one thing and just become the best at it you know and that was his advice to me and that’s really what started me on this journey of multifamily and and I was able to buy, so I spoke full in Spanish. I had some crews and I had maybe a $150,000 liquid. So I had saved some money and from there and I had some you know private money capital relationship. So I could close quickly and do some things like that and this is before you know Denver was just starting to take off multi-family in my opinion wasn’t as trendy or sexy it is now so it’s kind of under the under the radar and I, through some friends was able to buy six duplexes and this is when I learned the power of a cap rate and basically every hundred dollars that I was able to raise rents was worth twenty thousand you know twenty thousand in value, every hundred dollars and back then Denver was trading at 6-6.5 cap. And so I learned it just from doing all those projects myself. So I was full-time in the weeds in managing construction, leasing units, overseeing the property management, the maintenance, I mean every single part of it I had to learn and thankfully those duplexes ended up being some of the best deals that I’d ever done to that point and I had done four you know I’d been a part of 400-500 single-family flips but these duplexes were like 10x that just from the power of the rent multiplier

Rod: Let me ask you a question sorry sorry. So two things, one I want to hammer home something you just said, your father-in-law freaking nailed it okay you know focus is power and it’s really easy to dilute your focus and try to be all things to all people. I remember a period of time when I had two frozen yogurt shops at Hampden and Wadsworth and six in Wadsworth. I had vending carts selling ice cream bars down on the 16th street mall. I had a carpet cleaning business. I was flipping and everything suffered and I got rid of everything except the houses and you know just killed it. So that was incredible advice for you. And the other thing I want to hammer home for you is that education on those duplexes, doing the construction, doing the leasing, doing all the heavy lifting, is freaking invaluable okay because I’m sure that you’ve used that, that experience to push forward to the you know the incredible success that you’re enjoying today yes?

Terrance: Oh for sure you know I think that’s one of the things that I personally have taken a lot of pride in is that anyone that I talk to which is why I love being able to do podcasts and just share my stories with other people is that I learned so much just by doing you know is that I wanted to really figure it out and understand how to do it because I had had so many losses before that I basically came to the realization that the only way that, I’m just gonna bet on myself you know is if I bet on myself I really believe that I’m going to come out ahead regardless of all the obstacles and the difficulties or to come along the way. So I really do think that that was key and that’s something that I still enjoy you know I still love doing rent comps. I still love understanding neighborhoods. I’m always talking with our construction team about what are cheaper and more efficient ways to do renovations, interior renovations, exterior renovations on apartments, how can we elevate you know the way that someone’s gonna live and still do it in a way that’s affordable so we can pass those savings on to our residents. So I’m, it’s obviously something I’m really passionate about. I love you know, just tinkering and trying to improve on things that we’ve built. So it’s definitely played a major part into where

Rod: So, trigger my memory. Where are those duplexes just because you know I know every part of Denver

Terrance: Yeah they were, so a lot of them, so two or three in Lakewood and I had a couple in Westminster. So we did several off of West 72nd

Rod: Oh yeah yeah that’s where I went to high school brother right up there. Anyway we won’t bore our listeners haven’t got a clue what we’re talking about but I just had to know for myself. Love it. I mean I grew up in Westminster, that’s my hometown

Terrance: Yeah so West 72nd we had several right off there. There’s actually a project that I just did a couple years ago and I used to drive by one of the duplexes every single day right there and it’s still you know we did, I basically had this scalable solution, we’re doing the same paint, same windows, same roof. So I can kind of identify oh yeah we did this one you know and they still kind of look

Rod: Sure, sure, anytime I go to Denver it’s like I have memories on literally every single streak right because every night, every night, I would be out driving around knocking on doors. So I mean literally I was you know I knew Denver better than a taxi driver and so I’ve got memories on all these different streets

Terrance: Yeah Julian Street

Rod: Oh yeah Julian, King, Lowell, Mead, Newton, dude, Osceola I know

Terrance: I love Mead. We’ve done a bunch of good stuff on Mead to Wolf Street yeah all that

Rod: Let me tell you a funny story I mean just to digress for a second you know because you know people talk about market cycles you know real estate goes through cycles and I’ve been through you know a couple of them in Denver and I’ll share a story that I shared on another podcast today which was I had a house at 3351 West 30th okay and Victorian house, flipped it bought it for 56, sold it for 76, and the market crashed and this is late 80s okay and I bought that house back for 18 okay. Ultimately sold it for 160. Now correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t that area gentrifying? 30th and federal like these houses

Terrance: Yeah that’s huge. That’s like highlands that’s probably worth seven, eight hundred thousand

Rod: That’s huge! Isn’t that crazy to see what has happened you know guys if you can get in front of some gentrification, I mean good god. So if you’ve got a you know inner city location or or near a city center location and it’s rough but a couple blocks away there’s artists moving in and coffee shops and all that and yet you’re afraid to walk down the street that you’re you know a couple streets in buy because I remember back in the day when it was you know when near downtown Denver was was scary and you could buy whole blocks were boarded up you could buy them for 10,000, houses for 10,000 a piece. I bought a four-plex on 23rd and Vine all two-story units, 1,500 square feet a piece. I bought the all four units for 80 grand

Terrance: That’s insane

Rod: Yeah I mean each one is probably

Terrance: 1.6 million exactly. No, to drive your point home even more you know so I had this thing going in Denver and then I was like I want to go do the same thing in Des Moines, Iowa you know because we were buying in Denver and I was just seeing the power of cash flow and being able to drive rents and use construction as a way to like force appreciation. So in 2015 I bought my first four plex in Des Moines for $44,000 and I went there and I remember calling one of my buddies back I was like, dude, I wanna buy everything here because it’s what you’re talking about there was areas where people in Des Moines thought were scary or dangerous you know there’s an area in Des Moines called the River Park North and it’s like a mile from downtown Des Moines, Iowa. And I went down there it’s by a river and you know there’s an amphitheater you know and so I saw this opportunity just coming from the perspective I had from Denver which was what you just said I saw all these you know neighborhoods and I hadn’t been here as long as you but I saw these neighborhoods that were being totally redeveloped. And I saw these you know the appreciation was just like 10%-20% a year. So I saw this neighborhood and I was and there’s a particular apartment building at the end of the street, literally a mile from outside downtown with a river behind it and I said this is going to be amazing. We have to buy this so I tried to buy that. That was the first larger building in des moines that I tried to buy in 2016 and there was a long story long story short I ended up buying it finally in 2018 and the city of Des Moines came in and did like a three million dollar streetscape right along the street and it’s like drip drove rents maybe 50%-60% you know and so to your point like being able to take something from a city like Denver that has had a lot of redevelopment, going into maybe a tertiary market that hasn’t had it yet but it’s coming, it’s in the path of progress, has worked out really really well. I mean back in the day you know five years ago I was buying units in Des Moines for 20,000-25,000 a door and now everything in Des Moines 50,000-70,000 a door just because of you know those things. So it’s definitely, that’s everything you’re saying I can’t emphasize enough that that’s definitely a winning formula

Rod: It’s a slow roll though. I mean know that you know it’s not going to happen overnight. It takes time you know and you’ll deal with some riff raff and you’ll have some stress and some pain but it’s so freaking worth it you know I want to say something else and hammer home another point you made. If you can bring your knowledge base to a fresh town, sometimes that can be huge. I remember when I moved to to Florida here I went to this area down in Charlotte county and all there were houses on direct access canals out to the Gulf of Mexico. So literally, no bridges. You could go from a boat without a bridge out to the Gulf of Mexico and these houses were 100 grand apiece and I’m like what the hell? I bought all five of them for under 150 grand and you know of course they’re a million bucks a piece now. And so you know sometimes that fresh look from someone from out of town, they can see something that someone that’s in there it’s like the frog that gets put in the water and you turn the heat up slowly versus the one that goes thrown in the hot water and jumps out you know they just don’t see it you know what I’m saying

Terrance: Oh for sure yeah

Rod: Yeah but anyway so you’ve got assets in Des Moines, you’ve got, I mean you’re a shiny penny guy for sure, you’re an entrepreneur just like me. I mean you know it’s it’s hard I’m sure to keep that focus and those blinders on and focus but you know so I mean to hear all these things you’ve done, it’s just you know really kind of cool you know the sports stuff and all that. And so let me ask you this, what are you excited about right now? What’s next?

Terrance: Yeah phenomenal question you know I you nailed it you know I love ideas. I love opportunity. I love bringing people together. I really feed off of other people’s energy and just the challenge of the you know the the journey in the process. The thing that I’m really excited about right now you know one of the things I’m really excited about is the show that I’m launching with Chris with Bigger Pockets you know I’m not a media guy but I’ve loved the fulfillment it brings me of being able to add disproportionate value to other people that are on the same journey I was maybe a couple years ago you know 10 years ago when I was just starting. So I love that. I love the show that we’re in London called the Tribe of Multifamily Mentors. It’s going to launch it’s going to be a Youtube podcast in person in our Denver studio and it’s going to launch sometime in mid-April. We’ve already recorded three, you know three episodes. It’s been phenomenal. I love the value. We’re talking all things multi-family. So we’re having lenders, brokers, property managers, guys in construction, operators, you know people like yourself that have had thousands of units and are syndicating large deals and we’re just you know giving a 20% background on their personal story and then taking a deep dive into deals they’ve been a part of to really unpack that. So I’m really passionate about that, that’s something that you know Chris and I have been my partner on the show have been working on for several years with Bigger Pockets. And then I’m really excited about you know this fund that I’m launching in Denver and basically just taking the same strategy of value-add you know the name of my company is The Value-add Real Estate company which is you know just value to me and real estate is solving problems right, is being able to solve problems at scale and so that’s you know I’m really passionate about you know the track record that I’ve been able to been able to build in Denver and Des Moines and just really hyper focused on going deep into those markets where we own the construction, we own the property management, we understand the neighborhoods, kind of like you do in Denver you know maybe not even as good as you know in Denver I mean you know the neighborhoods really well. So you know do we know the neighborhoods, we know the brokers, we know the tenants, we know that we kind of had to understand how things are going to go and so I’m really passionate about just being able to go deep kind of like my father-in-law you know advised me seven years ago of just going deep in an area, an asset class that I really enjoy and in locations that I know really well

Rod: Listen, anything you put your full focus and attention to will flourish. If you dilute your focus, everything suffers like we just talked about. Now let me ask you this, I mean Denver is so freaking hot it’s like sizzling. It’s almost you know it’s like Austin, Texas for example. So, are you this fund? Are you going to be looking for assets there? Are you going to go to Des Moines? What’s the plan there?

Terrance: So it’s just going to be it’s called value-add DD fund one, Denver-Des Moines. So, you’re absolutely right. So one of the things that I have been able to do consistently even through the hot market, so if you go back to 2008 to twelve you know we were buying everything at the public trustee sale, there was not a lot of competition and a lot of opportunity. So fast forward to you know Denver just like you said Austin, there’s a ton of competition and not a lot of opportunity. What I’ve been able to do consistently has been able to create opportunity. So one of the things that I think is my secret sauce is that I know how to get brokers to bring me deals off market that fit our buy box. So consistently you know right now we have 30 million under contract, all value-add, the same strategy that we can go in there through construction in neighborhoods we know raise rents a minimum of 25% after construction, and these are 40,50,60,100-unit buildings and so it’s difficult. I mean there’s a ton of competition nothing is easy but I’ve been able to kind of create this system and process of being able to you know motivate and align interest with brokers to be able to bring brokers and you know some wholesalers and just door knockers you know just people just a community of people that believe that we know how to close and we will perform and that’s kind of what I’ve been able to build that off of

Rod: You’ve got a great mentor and Brandon Turner, I know they’ve got a fund. He and a great friend of mine Brian or have a fund for mobile home parks. Brian’s in my mastermind, my Multifamily Boardroom Mastermind, and you know I know they’ve been buying mobile home parks and so you know you again you’ve got a great you know great a business model to certainly model for your fund and and you know I saw Brandon post on a social media, a hundred thousand dollar referral fee if you send me a part. That’s freaking brilliant. I mean really come on that’s freaking brilliant I love that. He’s such a great guy. I really enjoyed getting to know him. But yeah, so you know let me ask you this, what suggestions do you have for, you know a lot of my listeners are aspiring multi-family investors they haven’t pulled the trigger yet you know out of fear or whatever it is you know fear of failure, fear of whatever and you know so many fears out there limiting beliefs but you know what advice would you give someone that’s been thinking about this, they haven’t pulled the trigger yet, they know they want something more for their family, they want freedom you know speak to that person

Terrance: That’s a fascinating question and something that I you know through listening to you and some other guys that I look up to you know really think about just the mindset you know and you know coming out of a lot of failures and I’ve had a ton of ton of failures and I can’t emphasize that enough is you know I definitely went through seasons where I had self-doubt, I had lost confidence, I was kind of like man I wonder I mean multiple times I remember talking to my now wife like man maybe I should just go get a job in 2013-14 you know when I was in that transition of like man maybe this isn’t for me maybe I just need to go, get a nine to five really dive deep and you know and help someone else build something. So I’ve been there. I understand what that’s like and all I can say is that you know and you talk about this a lot so just to put it a different way maybe it’s just you have to decide to burn the bridge and just take action you know you have to you have to make a decision there has to be a light bulb moment or something where you’re just like I’m going to go all in and just give it a shot you know something that’s helped me, I come from a sports background is, I’ve been able to surround myself consistent with people that are really good at the things I’m not good at you know and just having a little bit of self-awareness to say okay these are the two or three things that I do really well. Let me go find one or two people that do the other things really well and let’s find a way to align interest and work together you know and so I personally just think that taking action has always been my thing you know I didn’t know I’m not really qualified to launch a fund or do any of this but consistently through my career has just been, I’m gonna try it and I’m gonna make mistakes but I’m gonna know how to solve the problem once I’ve made a mistake. And just being comfortable with hey I’m gonna make mistakes you know you have to just, there’s no one that’s batting you know pitching a perfect game in entrepreneurship you know you can attest to that, any successful entrepreneur would say that and so just being comfortable with making mistakes. I think I’ve gotten a lot more comfortable through the years of just realizing hey, I may hire this person that may be the wrong person, I may buy this property maybe I misunderstood that market and I’m going to learn from that mistake and do better the next time but being comfortable making mistakes and then really deciding to take action are the things that stick out to me

Rod: Listen recognizing that if you’re not making mistakes, sorry I hate to say it you’re just freaking not trying okay bottom line. Mistakes are feedback okay and you’re never going to grow and become better unless you’re getting that feedback and very often it’s critical feedback and that’s okay that’s how you become better. Failures, I call them seminars because they’re feedback. It’s only a failure if you don’t get up and you don’t get the lesson you know and like you as an entrepreneur, I’ve built 24 businesses several have been worth a lot of money and most have been spectacular flaming seminars okay. So you know bottom line and that’s how we grow when we become more. So listen you are a one driven SOB, what’s driving you man? What’s the why that’s making you so freaking on it?

Terrance: I think that I love

Rod: Now dig deep dig deep

Terrance: Yeah from coming from a sports background, I am competitive. I always you know I’m always looking at myself and saying how can I get better you know I think one of the big things that sticks out to me early on in my life was coming from Des Moines, Iowa in high school, I was one of the best basketball players in my city maybe the state and when I got to college I realized that there was a lot of guys way better than me around the country that I never, my perspective was limited to a small, I was thinking small so that’s always kind of in the back of my mind that like any time I’ve reached a certain level that like if I take a step back that I’m maybe thinking too small that there’s people out there working harder than me thinking differently solving problems maybe in a more efficient way than me. So that definitely is in me from high school but I think that the bigger thing is that, I just am in the, I love the pursuit of excellence of just getting better and improving just the process of just growth you know I think that that’s really something that I’m just you know from a young age I’ve just been like I want to get better and I’m going to surround myself with people that want to get better and it’s not really like a numbers thing to me. It’s more about just that pursuit of I want to get better and I want to get the most out of what I feel like you know God’s given me and you know my ability and my energy and and the relationships he’s given me

Rod: You know Tony Robbins calls it CANI, Constant And Never-ending Improvement and when you approach life like that, I mean this is, this you’re unstoppable you’re just absolutely freaking unstoppable. So what’s your definition of success?

Terrance: Yeah success to me is doing, getting every ounce of you know ever a production that you can out of what you’ve been given you know I think that just being healthy you know especially going through what we’ve just been through this last year is just such a great reminder of how fragile life is, how much we have to be thankful for, and you know success is really just being able to look yourself in the mirror every single day and say man I’m giving it everything I have with what I’ve been given, everything I have no excuses just with whatever I’ve been given today, I’m going to give it everything that I have. And to me, that’s you know what I would you know you look at when I look at people and I admire them it’s like man that person has got every ounce of production out of what they were given you know and that’s to me how you define it

Rod: That’s a very cool definition buddy. I gotta tell you. I’ve not heard that one and I really like that one. So let me ask you this, you know besides what you’ve already shared any aha moments you know in this path in this journey and I think you shared a couple but any of any others come to mind when you’re like oh wow okay I get it or a pivotal moment. I mean you know as human beings we have these transitionary periods like you went through in 2013 and 2014 you know and and and it can be very unsettling, it’s very stressful and it’s part of growing and becoming more and but any aha moments come to mind when I ask that question?

Terrance: Probably similar to you, I’ve had to reinvent myself multiple times you know I went from being you know a young age you know we had done some good things on the franchising side and then got into house flipping and you know had to reinvent myself there and then I was a sports agent and had to reinvent myself back into getting you know into real estate full time and then you know from doing duplexes and fourplexes I kind of had to reinvent myself to build relationships with a different group of brokers in 2016-2017 when I was trying to do like 20,30 and 40 unit buildings and in Des Moines I was buying like 50 unit buildings. So I had to reinvent myself and figure out a way to to connect with that group of brokers in Denver and Des Moines and how to motivate them and how to break into that and right now I’m kind of reinventing myself again to get into a higher asset class that you’ve been into which is 100-200 unit buildings in Denver which is super difficult. I mean we’re talking you know deals 20,30, 40 million dollars which is like you know much more money than I’ve ever you know acquired in the past. So I’m having to reinvent myself and it’s a, every single time it’s a challenge and I think that for me every single time it’s been so worth it you know that like I could have stayed, I could stay comfortable at the 20-30 unit you know size that I’ve done in Denver now we’ve done really well and had incredible returns and you know it’s been a ton of fun and I’ve learned a lot but I just feel like there’s more you know I just feel like there’s more and I could take what I’ve learned and the kind of infrastructure I’ve built and do it on a larger scale and kind of like you know why not you know challenge myself and and take that risk and so you know you’re gonna get to a point you know maybe every three or four years where you have to reinvent yourself, you have to pivot, you have to adjust to the market, and you know it’s not comfortable but it’s something that I’ve just kind of learned to embrace and kind of enjoy you know just that just that again that pursuit of hey let me figure this out. Let me try and understand how this market works here and how these brokers work and how they maybe think differently and what are the things that I can do to maybe relate with them in a different way or you know all those things. So I think that’s probably one of the things that comes to mind you know since 2014. It is even though I have grown every year I’ve had to reinvent myself two or three times you know since then

Rod: Yeah that’s part of life man and you know happiness doesn’t come from the goals, it comes from growing and progressing and becoming more. So you know so let me ask you let me ask you a question that I usually ask older people on my show but you’re you know you’re in you’re like 37 I think you said if you know knowing what you know now what would you tell your 20 year old self?

Terrance: I think that to get to be the best that you want to be, you’re going to have to go through some really difficult times you know and I think that as human beings we tend to try and avoid pain and suffering and discomfort you know and I know that you can relate

Rod: Great answer brother

Terrance: You have to do that you know and so I’ve obviously been through that not because you know I wanted to or it was fun but man the times that I learned and grew the most were when I lost the most money, had the hardest conversations, and took the biggest losses, you know and I went through seasons you know there was time you know I was just about to get engaged, I had lost so much money, I had such big like setbacks and I was like wanting so much to have a family and I had this idea in my head of like man I want this and I want to have this much in the bank and I want to have this much coming in monthly and I had this idea of like what it looked like to be financially stable for a woman and to start a family and man none of that happened you know what I mean none of that. And so it was really you know that was really hard for me. So I definitely feel like there was seasons where it was so difficult I had so much doubt and setback but those are the times that I grew the most and helped me get like disproportionately higher levels than I’d ever been before you know what I was thinking

Rod: What a great answer man. I gotta tell you because, and those are you listening you know what he just said is so spot on because when you fear those times of your life and you and or you avoid them, you’re never going to grow and it’s okay to go through the mix, to go through the soup, you know and deal with those setbacks because you come out so much stronger and I mean, what a great answer brother really impressed with that answer because you know that’s the bottom line. So many people fear failure or fear rejection or fear this and that and they never take action on their dreams and it’s just so freaking sad. I’m gonna tell you guys fear of regret is a whole lot worse than you fear failure. So, great answer. So, do you have any favorite quotes or any any any you know anything that jumps out I mean you know I love to dig into what what drives people and motivates them and pushes them or any morning ritual that you do or anything that you do to stay pumped

Terrance: My favorite book is called Shoe Dog by Phil Knight

Rod: I love that

Terrance: If you’re an entrepreneur out there or you’re looking to get inspired by a great I think American success story, I mean this guy, I mean I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read chapters in that book feeling like defeated like man I’ve done so much. I mean he was selling half a million dollars of shoes and then he would be you know go order a million dollars and be broke again you know and did that all the way up until you know he went took it public you know and I just and I love his perspective at the end of the book kind of looking back and I just think that’s a phenomenal. So there’s so many great quotes in that book and stories and analogies and you know it’s regardless of how you feel about the brand Nike, it’s an incredible story and I love you know a lot of the examples that he has and the lessons he learned you know a morning routine, I love to work out early. Chris and I were just talking, you know I have two young kids under the age of three so they’re getting up you know 5am, 5:30 sometimes 4:30. So I’m up early and I’m taking a cold, the first thing I do is take a cold shower and I think that that really and I’ve been doing that for maybe a year or so and I just think it helps me get in the right mindset it wakes me up and really just gets me fired up for the day you know just coming out of bed and you know your brain is kind of like you have to train it and so it’s going to tell you no,no, no, you don’t want to do that and I think if you start the day off kind of going against what your mind and your flesh is telling you and you just like overcome that, I can’t tell you scientifically what it does or can’t break that down but I can just tell you that for me it’s helped me just to be way more productive and focused you know from just the first decision I make to go against maybe what my entire bean is telling me you know but you know that’s something that’s really helped me

Rod: No, that’s awesome. Let me shift gears for just another minute, what are you doing to make sure that you’re there for your kids and your spouse and you’re so freaking driven? What are you doing you know to make sure that you’re present with them because I will tell you my greatest regret in life, I mean you you are you know I i see a mirror with you and the drive and everything when I was your age and my greatest we’re getting in life was coming home every day yeah eight million dollar house on the beach but I wasn’t present I would play with my kids but I wasn’t there mentally. What are you doing to make sure that you don’t have that regret?

Terrance: Yeah I think about that a lot you know there’s a scripture you know in the bible it talks about what does a man gain if he gains the whole world but loses his soul you know so I definitely think about that a lot and I try and stay really ingrained in one of my morning practices like reading the bible praying like I’m trying to and I think that that gives me really great perspective on you know what I’m doing because at the end of the day like I’m not you know the money is nice and it does give you some comfort and convenience but I’m really after like just more impact and something you know more long-lasting. So I try and get perspective from really close people around me to remind me of that and then by reading scripture. But I just think that the most important thing in my life is my relationship obviously with you know with my heavenly father and then with my wife and then with my kids and it’s got to be in that order. And so I’m constantly trying to remind myself of that because you know business and money will have a way of trying to like deceive you or tell you differently but I think that it’s definitely, it’s hard and I have to and that’s why consistent prayer and daily time in scripture for me has been a great north star to keep me centered and focused on the main thing is my relationship with my wife, relationship with the kids, and trying to pour into them as much as I can and obviously balance is difficult. So I definitely don’t have that figured out but

Rod: Okay, well listen, listen my friend, I’ll send you access to my boot camp coming up and if nothing else, watch my little clip on on weekly planning because I think I can add some value to you in that regard because you know it’s very very hard to you know just decompress to the point where you can connect with a child that’s under three years old right when you’ve got your brain is moving so fast. So anyway, I’ll hook you up on that and I think you might really enjoy that and it really involves blocking time and some other things you’re already doing actually but, well listen, brother really enjoyed this today, really enjoyed meeting you and thank you for your kind words and just you’ve added so much value so it’s really been a treat for me and you know I’m looking forward to you know getting to know you and yeah maybe come on your show sometime too that’d be a lot of fun

Terrance: Yeah definitely. I came on here with that understanding that you were going to come on my show so you’re definitely coming on this show.

Rod: It was a decision you just got to make that decision and it’s done. Well it’s done brother. Well listen it was a real treat and we will definitely talk again very very soon thanks for adding value brother

Terrance: Hey thanks a lot Rod! Appreciate it.