Ep #512 – The Introvert’s Edge author Matthew Pollard

What a great interview for both introverts and extroverts. Matthew’s insight into what makes each one tick is pure gold and a powerful tool for sales and networking.

Here’s some of what we covered:

  • Pros and Cons of Introverts and Extroverts
  • Planning and Process
  • The value of stories
  • Reticular activating system
  • Synchronizing brains
  • The power of emotional connection
  • Creating curiosity
  • Why you shouldn’t sell at a networking event
  • Find where your niche hangs out

To find out more about our guest:


Full Transcript Below

Ep 512 – The Introverts Edge author Matthew Pollard

Rod: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing”. I’m Rod Khleif and I’m thrilled that you’re here. And I’m really excited about today’s guest and guys, if you are that person that is introverted or shy or quiet but super analytical and know you want to kick butt in this business, you do not want to miss this episode. So, I’ve got Matthew Pollard. He’s an internationally recognized blogger, speaker, author, mentor, coach. He’s built five multimillion dollar companies before he was 30. He’s the CEO of a company called “Rapid Growth”. But why I wanted him on the show? He’s been called the real deal by Forbes. But why I wanted him on the show is because he wrote a couple of books and they’re called “The Introvert’s Edge: How the Quiet and Shy Can Outsell Anyone”. And anyway, super excited again in this conversation. Welcome to the show, brother.

Matthew: I’m excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.

Rod: Absolutely. So, “The Introvert’s Edge”, you have one for sales and you have “The Introvert’s Edge” for networking. And I have so many people that listen to my show that are analytical, they’re engineers, they’re in I.T. and sometimes they’re introverted. Sometimes they love their spreadsheets, like my partner Robert. If I can lock him in a room with a spreadsheet, an excel sheet, and throw raw meat in from once in a while, he’s happy. So, but he’s become much more outgoing now than ever but I was actually making fun. But, let’s talk about your book or maybe you can talk about how the book came about first, talk about how this happened.

Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. And I think actually you’re talking about your business partner is kind of the reason I wrote the book, like the biggest hurdle that I found that introverts and extroverts, I mean, let’s I want to make this clear that it’s not extrovert bashing by any means. I think the biggest thing is that both introverts and extroverts have their own burdens to bear. The extroverts, perhaps some might say they’re not the best listeners. They’re not the most empathetic people in the world. But the difference is that they’ll go away and they’ll study how to become more effective at those skills. They see them as learnable skills. And if they work for an organization, HR will send them to that training if they feel that they need it. The problem is, as an introvert, we believe that there’s this thing called the gift of gab barrier that we just can’t cross. And because of that, a lot of us as introverts, we don’t go out and learn skills on how to become great salespeople, great networkers, great presenters, great leaders, great managers. So, we just believe that success in those fields is not possible for us. So, the reason why I created the second book was really, I mean, the first book, I didn’t want to write it at all. I mean, the first book, “The Introvert’s Edge”, originally it was because I started to speak from stage about what I call the three steps to rapid growth, how people need to differentiate, they need to niche, they need to create a sales system. And, you know, it’s funny, I see introverts all the time. They look at somebody successful on stage. We just project extroversion on them. I mean, we forget the realities that Zig Ziglar, one of the most famous sales trends in the world, was an introvert. Ivan Misner, the founder of BNI was an introvert. I mean, even Bill Murray, that famous guy we all see of fun movies, was an introvert. So, we just project extroversion on these people. So, I could see it about two thirds into my conversations, people were like, “Yeah, it’s easy for you, but not for me. It’s harder for me”. So, I would tell my introverted story before I got into sales about how I struggle with selling. And it was 93 doors before my first sale and how uncomfortable I was. And what was interesting is people came up afterwards and they said, “I had no idea as an introvert that I could sell. This has given me hope.” And I didn’t want to write the book. So, I told everybody that I knew to write a book on introverted selling. And everyone said, “No one’s gonna buy a book in introverted sales. I mean, who’s gonna read a book like, is an introvert. Who’s gonna pick that up?” Well, I mean, it sold nearly 40,000 copies now. It’s listed as one of the most highly rated sales books ever written. But it led to the second problem. All these introverts coming to me go, “Matt, I’m closing so much more now. Thank you. But how do I get more leads? How do I get in front of more people?” And so, it just made “The Introvert’s Edge” to networking as a sequel to be the only logical choice really to come out with. And, you know, I’ve been ecstatic to see already some of the people that have read the book that are already starting to get in front of more people and close more deals that they just never had access to before.

Rod: Nice. And this is so applicable to my tribe. And that’s why I was really excited to have you on. So, let’s drill down a little bit and I don’t know which book or if you get into it and both of them, but let’s talk about how introvert is very practical, the very logical and how they might utilize that or push past that. I don’t know how you want to describe it. So, if you could speak to that topic specifically.

Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it applies to networking and sales. I think what happens is that, when us introverts are asked questions, the first thing that happens is we kind of get caught up in our head about all the different things that we could say, which means that a lot of times what tends to come out is more like word salad. And a lot of that is because introverts are very different to extroverts. Introverts don’t like to not be planned out and thought out about what they’re going to say. It’s like when you have a management meeting and an extrovert as an introvert, “What’s your opinion on this?”. An introvert doesn’t naturally have an answer straight away. And then, the day later they’re like, “Oh gosh, I wish I said this”. So, what I always suggest for introverts specifically is they need to really think through what they want to say. Now, a lot of that comes from planning and having a methodical process for the way that they network. Now, if you go and network with just everybody, there’s always going to be things that you can’t plan well, but if you or if you know your tribe, I mean, you know your tribe really well, Rod. So, you know, what interests them, what doesn’t interest them, what stories resonate, what stories don’t. If you know your audience really well, you can start to really think through. What are some of the concerns that they have? What are some of the comments you could say? What are some of the stories you can tell that will really interest them? And the great thing about introverts is we love the plan. We love to prepare. So, one of the things that’s really interesting is, I highlight to introverts in both selling and networking, is you don’t need to have hundreds of stories prepared. I always suggest, ask yourself, if I’m trying to sell or network with someone that’s part of my ideal tribe. What are the three major problems that they have? And then what is the one solution that I have for each one of those problems? And then, what’s the story of a person that had that problem, that I gave that solution that got to an amazing outcome? And then what’s the best way I can tell that story? Then, write down that story and practice it over and over again. Now, for those people that are listening, this is going to sound a little bit like scripting, networking scripting, sales scripting. And everybody hates scripting, right? Because we all remember that eight o’clock at night phone call from a telemarketer and it sounds so robotic, but remember your favorite actors on TV, people like Leonardo DiCaprio, Tom Cruise, you know, Tom Hanks. All these people that are delivering lines that are so compelling, they’re reading from scripts and they’re reading from scripts of portraying the characters that aren’t even them. All we’re trying to do is show you how to become the best version of yourself. So, learn and write down the stories, practice the stories, and then sit down with a friend or family member and practice a dialogue and get into that story with them and tell the story. Here’s the fun thing with stories, though. Stories firstly, you can’t fit all of your industry jargon into a story. So, you have to be selective about what you’re going to tell. Second thing is, story short circuits the logical brain and you speak directly to the emotional brain. So, the great thing about that is the logical part of the brain is thinking, “This will work for me. That won’t work for me. What time is it? How long have I been on this phone call? Hang up or. No, I’m not interested.” The emotional brain just listens to a story, “Oh my gosh story time” and listens to all the details, assumes them as fact and then listens for the moral. That’s all it cares about. And this other really powerful thing about story is a study out of Princeton that highlights that when we tell a story, it actually activates what we call the reticular activating system of our brain. It means, that we’re actually fostering artificial report because our brains synchronize. Now, introverts struggle with creating the first bit of report, but studies show that we’re amazing at creating reports after that, which is why introverts tend to have much stronger and deeper relationships than most extroverts. Extroverts have lots of relationships. Introverts have less, but they are much deeper. Well, we can use story to turn these short term relationships into these deeper relationships, and that allows us, introverts, to have a huge advantage that an extrovert really just can’t compete with.

Rod: Right. I agree because I’m an extrovert and I totally get it. I, you know, I’ve connected and interviewed and partnered and I’ve got the bulk of the people in my master mind are all– Initially they were introverts and or they still are. And I don’t know if it’s something you push through or if it’s something that’s with you all the time. And you being an introvert, that’s a question I have. Do you ever lose it? You get past it because obviously your personality at this point and I feel like I was introverted, but I’m thinking down deep, I really wasn’t. I was just suppressing myself because of my childhood experiences and what not. I don’t think I really was at my core. But, what’s your answer to that question? Do you get past it or do you just deal with it?

Matthew: Yes, it’s actually– so you question highlights. One of the biggest things that I try to get people to understand is, look, I think it’s the psychologists that have really made this hard. I mean, there are so many studies and so many things. And you got, “Oh, maybe I’m introverted. Maybe I’m highly sensitive. Maybe I’m ambivert. Maybe–” It is just too many things now that confused labels. So I just try to simplify it for people. By the way, introversion, extroversion, it’s something that you are and you’ll always be, right? And the thing that I will tell you is that, by the way, it doesn’t mean if you’re extroverted, that you can’t learn to listen well and empathize well? It’s just a skills gap and you need to learn how to do it more effectively. As an introvert, there’s not like a lot of people will talk about interventions like, “Oh, I used to be introverted, but I’ve managed to overcome it.” There is no overcoming it, by the way, I think it’s an advantage. The difference is, between introversion and extroversion is only this, where you draw your energy? That is it. If you draw your energy from being with people, then you’re an extrovert. If you draw your energy from being by yourself, you’re an introvert. Now–

Rod: Fascinating.

Matthew: It doesn’t mean, though, that you can’t go out of network and sell. Like for me, I’d like to think that I’m a great networker and salesperson and public speaker now. The difference is, like a kid at Disneyland, it doesn’t mean I’m not enjoying myself in the moment, but when I get home, I hit the pillow and I just want to go to sleep or put on a hoodie in a dark room and watch Netflix because I need to recharge.That’s the only difference.

Rod: Fascinating. What an incredibly simple yet profound description of the two. I love it. So I’m definitely an extrovert. And that’s interesting. And I suppressed that again when I was young. And I love the fact that you incorporate story because frankly, the best way to communicate is through a story. I learned this from a mastermind that I joined. And, you know, I asked the person putting on this mastermind, you know, “How do I connect with my audience?” And he said, “Tell him your most painful story.” And so, you know, that I usually start with that in my events. But the story is how people connect. And the greatest influencers in history have been the greatest storytellers wouldn’t you agree?

Matthew: Oh, absolutely. I think that everybody, I mean, it’s funny when you see, like, amazing movies and you see this character that needs to captivate an audience, maybe they’re about to go to war or they’re about to do something that is absolutely important. They never get in and tell the logical reasons for why they need to do this. They get on and they tell a story that captivates people’s minds and solves. The thing is that stories have the ability to– I mean, it’s funny when you tell a good story, you feel the tingles down your arm. And it’s like when you ask a story about how you met your husband, your wife, your partner, it’s like you don’t say, Well, I was walking. You go through the list of everything that happened. You talk about the emotions that you felt. Stories allow you to tap into this emotional driver. And if you think about the reasons why your customers buy, it’s one 100% emotional driver. And if you think about the people that you have the best relationships with, it’s because they believe that they have an emotional connection with you. Now sure, you can have a very great relationship with someone that you have a logical concept, a logical connection with. But if you had a choice about who you’re going to go out to dinner with, you get to pick the person you feel like you’ve got a much more stronger emotional connection with, the stories–

Rod: Even an introvert?

Matthew: Well, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Rod: Okay.

Matthew: So what’s interesting is, so introverts behave less introverted when they’re around someone that they trust and they feel comfortable with. Now, then they’re going to want to have logical conversations, right? But they want to feel like they’re in a safe zone. So creating that emotional. So if you think about the triune brain, if you think your logical brain is relatively a new development, like if you think if you see a bear, what’s a lot of people that are untrained don’t know what to do. The first thing they’re going to do is run away, right? Now, that’s what happens in three parts of the train, right? The first part, a more primitive version is like see bear, survival run away. Then what will happen is tomorrow, will break down in tears and we won’t know why. That’s how the emotional brain starting to go, “Oh, I just experienced something traumatic.” And then day three comes along and all of a sudden the biological brain switches back on it goes, “You idiot. You’re not supposed to run when you see a bear.” Right? “You’re supposed to stand still.” Right? So, there’s all of these things that your brain controls in different elements of your brain. Now, when we hear a story, we skip the logical brain. Now, when you think about making a real estate decision, a lot of people are thinking it’s a logical mindset. Now, if you tell a story, it skips them to the emotional part of their brain and it’s much less trained to be able to analyze the data. As a matter of fact, it’s trained in storytelling to assume as fact. Now, when you’re trying to get somebody to understand, you know them better than they know themselves. You’ve worked with people just like them and got them to an amazing result. Do you think they need to understand the data or do you think you need to get them to understand that, you know what’s happening, the emotions that they’re struggling with, the stresses they have, why they want to be involved in real estate, and how you can get them to the outcome that they desire? Story allows you to do something that logical fact just does not.

Rod: Oh, this is actually helping me a lot, frankly. I’m about to do a presentation, a workshop to several hundred people. And one of the topics I’m going to talk about is, the speed of implementation and how an introversion and analytical mindset are very closely joined and very often, at least in my experience. I don’t know if that’s yours, but there are a lot of introverts who are very analytical. And so I’m about to have a conversation around, you know, the fact that the times that we have as operators, as multiforme operators, have to take immediate action without knowing all the facts, without knowing all the people involved. We just had to just push forward. And that’s what I think one of the hardest parts for people that come into my ecosystem at least is, you know, that you have to push away from that need to check off every single box before they make a decision. And I don’t know, I’m off topic here, but–

Matthew: I think what you’re, what you kind of elucidate into, though, is a lot of times CEOs, when they’re being sold to or when they need to make a quick decision to take action, they don’t have the time to truly understand the concept. What they need to do is feel like they’re in good hands. Actually, you know, I’ll give you an example of a story told poly. But, you know, I actually worked with a major, It was a billion dollar company. And for 45 minutes, I interrogated them about the details of a story. And the reason for that is, I speak from states quite frequently. And one of the things that I do is I’ll tell one of their organizational stories from the stage, like I work for the organization. And with this one, it was incomplete with industry acronyms and everything. And at the end, I’ll say now, “Who here thinks that I must have worked for Oracle or Intel or Microsoft for at least a decade to be able to tell the story this well?” And everyone puts their hand up. And I’m like, Well, I actually interviewed for this story about three weeks ago. I wrote it last week. I remembered it yesterday. If I can do this now, think about how easy it must be for you to be able to learn a story, because here’s the cool thing. People remember up to 22x more information when embedded into a story, which means that it could take me forever to learn a sales script, but to remember a story, it’s really easy for me to remember because you remember it in timeline milestones. So anyway, I interrogated these people for 45 minutes and then I told them this story back in literally 45 seconds. Oh my gosh. How did you do that? And I said, It’s a very simple outline. Now for people with analytical mindsets, I break it down into full specific milestones.

Rod: This is in the book. Right? So they can see this in the book?

Matthew: Absolutely, yes.

Rod: Good.

Matthew: So the way we frame it is in four specific milestones. But the great thing is, you can literally tick the elements off in your head as you’re going through it. So it’s like you’re telling a story with a tick list behind it. Right. So it’s super powerful because you can turn storytelling into an analytical production line. But then I said, but here’s the thing that I’m not understanding about this story. I said, You explained to me that you’ve been chasing them for like years and then all of a sudden they decided they wanted to move that technology into the cloud. Why did they decide that they wanted to move into the cloud all of a sudden? They didn’t know they had to go and find out. Well, it turns out that this customer had, they run all the servers in their government premises for years and they had this, If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ mindset. And then the server crashed just before Christmas. They couldn’t run payroll. And this was thousands of people in a government organization. No one got paid before Christmas. How many of those were running paycheck to paycheck? How many of them saw this guy as the reason for why they had a bad Christmas? And on top of that, he had to have his entire team work over Christmas so everyone could get paid by New Year’s. And it was like, how is that not involved in the story?

And I said, Here’s the thing, everything that I just said now, it’s pretty hard for me to feel for this person. Why is it hard for me to feel? Because CTO doesn’t really have. How do I feel the emotions of a CTO? What was the person’s name?. David. Okay. Now, if I think about David as the person that ruined Christmas, feeling stressed out that his whole team’s away from his family, these are the things that analytical people generally forget that the name is important to the story, that the fact that David had to work and his whole family saw him as the bad guy. Everybody hated him and how we got them to a great outcome in the end and how he ended up getting promoted because of how well he handled the situation. Right? So the moral of the story is, you know, If this ain’t broke,don’t fix it mindset is not the right focus to have as we’re getting to the outcome. So, you know, when you’re trying to consider technology and if we need to hold your hand through the whole process. Right? That is much more important than exactly how are you going to migrate to the cloud.

Rod: Right.The technical details. Right. Oh, I love it. Now, you know, it’s fascinating that you said you’re 22x more likely to remember a story because I was listening to an interview on another podcast from this memory expert. And the way that he associated things to remember was walking through a house in different rooms and parts of the house, it just ties right into what you just said is fascinating. So let me ask you this now.
So, you know, I think one of the biggest hurdles for an introvert is that 10 seconds of courage or whatever. And I don’t know if you speak to that, but I know that what you said about practice and I want to kind of hammer that home that yes, it’ll sound scripted at first. But when you practice it with your spouse, your dog, your kids, enough times, then when you speak it, it’s not really going to sound scripted. It’ll sound like it’s from your heart or you know, but speak. But anyway, I digress. Talk about that, that 10 seconds of courage. How do you get people to take that step?

Matthew: Well, I think the biggest hurdle for people to have that initial step is that they don’t know what to say to the person. It doesn’t immediately switch them off. I mean, let’s face it, we’ve all been to that networking event and you’ll say, Oh, I’m in Real Estate. Oh, I’ve already got Real Estate. We think we’re going to get sold something or, Oh, I’m in Commercial Real Estate Syndication. I mean, to me, that sounds like a Ponzi scheme, right? To the average person that doesn’t know how amazing it is and how much ROI you can create from it? It sounds terrifying, right? Now, but I mean, if I walk into a room and people ask me what I do and I say I’m a Sales trainer, people will respond with one of two things. Oh, I had sales training, lots. It didn’t really work out. And now they’re looking at me like I’m one step above a con artist, or they’ll say, Oh, I need sales training.How much do you cost and what? Now, I’ve got to talk about price, which is the last thing that I should be talking about. So what you’ve got to do, is you’ve got to realize that by fitting into a box that everybody knows of, you automatically are seen as a commodity. And that makes the conversation really hard. I’ll give an example. I actually worked with a guy called Shane. He was in Commercial Real Estate Syndication and he said exactly that. As soon as I say Commercial Syndication, it’s like people scream, Oh, my God, this sounds like something complicated that I’m not going to understand. I need to run away. So I started to ask him questions about what he did. And all of a sudden he started to share with me that some of his clients that he’d worked with. And one of the things that he really worked out, worked really well with, was a lot of he seemed to have a lot of doctors and lawyers that predominantly surgeons and doctors, his clients. And I said, Help me understand that. And he started to tell me all these stories about these doctors that I mean, it’s really interesting. I mean, doctors, everyone thinks that these people are making amazing money and they don’t have a problem in the world. Right? They’ve got the amazing car, the amazing house, you know, they’ve got, but they end up at 55, 60 with these really expensive lives with their kids in Harvard and Princeton studying medicine. And they kind of in these golden handcuffs that they can’t get out of and they get to work their livelihood. So, they realize that they need to get into some form of investment to try and find a retirement. So, they go into just real estate investing and they don’t have the time. Like somebody that’s earning 50,000 a year could spend an entire six month period finding the exact right property. A doctor needs to make a split decision and it’s always the wrong one. So they end up losing money and end up a landlord. They’re like, Why did I do this to myself? So the thing that I discovered that he really did that helped them was he helped them understand that by using commercial real estate as an opportunity, whether it be residential apartments or whether it be commercial in some form, they were going to be able to get a much higher return on investment. I said, here’s what I hear when you say that, I hear that you help me buy something low. My earning capacity allows me the opportunity that most people that earn less money don’t have the ability to achieve, which is to buy low and then rent high or sell high. That, in my mind, is arbitrage. I said, why don’t we call you the arbitrage architect instead of a commercial real estate syndicator? So when people ask you what is it you do, you say, I’m an Arbitrage Architect and–

Rod: Let me stop you. Forgive me. So, guys, he’s an Aussie. And in Australia, arbitrage is a very commonly known term. In the States, it’s not so much. So, I don’t know if you’ve got the parallel word for that. But a lot of my audience is not going to know what you mean by that. Just so you know, I don’t know what the alternative word would be.

Matthew: Interesting. Well, so what’s interesting? so the word arbitrage, it’s funny. So the client, Shane, is actually in Canada and Canadians–

Rod: Canadian as well.

Matthew: They definitely use it in Canada. But for those people that don’t understand the translation, it literally means to buy low and sell high.

Rod: Okay, fair enough.

Matthew: But the concept is really not that it makes perfect sense. It’s that people go, Oh my God, I don’t understand. What exactly is that? The whole purpose of it is to get people to lean forward and go, I can’t put you in a box. And immediately disqualify you. So I need to ask a further question. So it’s actually not a bad thing that if they don’t have a clue what the word arbitrage is.

Rod: Got it. And it may have been my naiveness as well in this case, but, you know, to describe it in a more emotional way, I guess, is really what you’re saying, is it really, it’s not completely logical and–

Matthew: It doesn’t make sense. And that’s the biggest thing. It’s not– So if I said I’m a Sales trainer again, people go, I know what that is, I don’t want it. I know what that is. I need it. How much do you cost? I call myself the rapid growth guy. What does that mean? Right?

Rod: Right.

Matthew: So it gets people to go, What exactly is that? And then I get this unique experience you don’t get at networking events, which is that I get their invitation to explain as opposed to them I don’t need it or How much do you cost when I’m on the defensive. Then in chains case, he gets to explain that he works exclusively with doctors and lawyers. They find themselves stuck in these golden handcuffs and then get segway straight into a story. I’ll also segway straight into a story. Now, when you’re at a networking room, introverts have amazing power because they do this thing that extroverts sometimes don’t like to do, which is actually be interested in the other person.
Because of that, I would suggest that you’re going to do amazingly well when you’re in that initial part. Be interested, not interesting, right? Ask them questions about what drove them to the event, what it is that they do. Ask. Be empathetic about if they just had something amazing happen. Be excited for that. If something bad happened, give them some advice or just empathize. Everyone thinks I’ve got nothing to give, sometimes an ear to hear them and empathize is everything. But what will happen is eventually they will go, Oh my gosh, I can’t believe. Rod, you spent all this time asking me about me. I haven’t even asked you what it is that you do? And then you’ll respond with, I’m an arbitrage architect, I’m a rapid growth guy, I’m the narrative strategist, The authority architect. And people go, Oh, I’ve not heard of that. What exactly is it? And here is the cool thing, because he was so interested in them, they are going to want to understand what you do and they’re going to listen to you explain. So, as soon as you say that, you now have their invitation, you then talk about your passion and mission for helping the nation, the demographic you mean to serve, and then your segway into a story which will immediately short circuit the logical mind. You speak directly. They’re emotional and they’re like, Oh, my gosh, I’m exactly like that guy, Shane. I need what he has. And then, you’ve now moved into a customer that’s genuinely interested. And then you have to provide, you have to experience, you have to be self-controlled.
Do not sell no matter what happens in that networking room, because here’s what will happen, Oh, my gosh. Rod. I absolutely need what you’re offering. How does that work? You start to explain it and then all of a sudden they’ll say, Oh John, I’m glad that I got to see you in this networking event. And you’ve been interrupted. Never sell in a networking room. Say it’s not time for that and book a follow up meeting.

Rod: Yep, Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And and I wanted to circle back to one thing you just said, which was really impactful. Oh, darn it. I lost it. The way you described that is just brilliant in making that connection. Oh, I know what it was. You know, really what you’re what you’re doing is, is you’re truly interested in them. And it’s like Dale Carnegie’s book, “How to Win Friends & Influence People”. When you take a genuine interest in someone else, they have a conversation with you and you’re guiding it with questions. And they think it’s the greatest conversation they’ve ever had because they’re the ones doing all the talking. And so, it’s really that strategy is really the answer here. So do you suggest that, you know, like when I first pushed through this, I had a list of questions in my back pocket so I’d memorize to ask questions and just start the conversation with asking questions. Do you have any tips for, again, getting them to walk up and shake that hand the first time? Is it just being prepared? Is that it or is there anything else?

Matthew: You know, absolutely it is. I think the biggest thing that introverts struggle with is that they believe– so let’s face it, in an introvert’s mind, what happens is they either lose their job or they run out of clients and, Oh, gosh, I’m going to have to go networking. So they booked themselves in for a networking event and then they put it out of their mind because they don’t want to think about it. And then they get that reminder hour before. Now, before that, they’ve got to start to think about leaving and then they sit there for the 30 minutes trying to talk themselves out of going. And then they begrudgingly get in the car and they go to the event and then they walk up to the first person they speak to it. It all goes haywire and wrong. The reason why they struggle and they end up the wallflower is because they’re not prepared. So, if you do that as an introvert, you’re going to fail and the extroverts are going to run circles around you. For me, when I go to a networking room, the first thing I do is I understand my niche. So I only go to networking rooms where my ideal niche is,right? By the way, if you’re in commercial syndication, if you go to the local commercial syndication made up group, none of your clients are there, right? You’ve got to go to a place where your clients hang out like Shane only goes to where doctors hang out. Right? Which is why now he has doctors associations coming to him and he’s doing incredibly well. Now, when I go to a networking room, the first thing that I do is I find where my niche hangs out, and that’s where I registered to go. The second thing I do is I actually look up who’s going, like if it’s a Facebook, if it’s a group that has a Facebook page, I will check out all the people that are in the photos and I’ll connect with them previously, prior. If it’s a meet-up group, I’ll connect with them. I’ll jump on LinkedIn and I’ll go, Oh, these are the right people. You know, this is a story I tell in the book where I went to an event and I connected with these people prior. One of them was Tom Daigle. He’s the Vice President, is one of the Senior Vice Presidents at IBM. And I knew I wanted to meet with him. So I connected with him on LinkedIn prior and I didn’t research him beforehand. And then when we walked, we happened to walk past each other. He recognized my face. I recognized his face. We got into a dialogue and all of the conversations that I bought up were all contrived based on the fact that I’d done my research beforehand. He believed that it was an organic conversation. For me, it felt like Groundhog Day because I had this conversation so often beforehand. Now I’d only plan to walk into four or five people because I can’t retain all of that data. But those were the four most influential people in the room. Now, most people go, Oh, that sounds bad. But if he ever knew that, it would be an issue. Well, Tom Daigle is a feature in the book. He’s an endorser of the book and thinks it was the most wonderful thing on Earth because I was able to foster a relationship with him that he and I have now fostered into a true deep relationship. So if you want to do well as a networker, as an introvert, you plan out what you’re going to say, you research the networking group you’re going to go to, you reach out to who’s going to be there beforehand. So when you walk into the room, it feels like a bunch of preplanned conversations as opposed to, Oh, my gosh, who am I going to speak to? And then you always end up speaking to that guy that sells insurance that you can’t get away from.

Rod: Oh, I love it. Guys, get his books. If you are this person, I’m going to get them for sure. So The Introverted Edge, is it Introvert’s Edge or Introverted Edge?

Matthew: So it’s The Introvert’s for the video listeners. It’s “The Introvert’s Edge to networking” and “The Introvert’s Edge”, which focuses on sales. But my publisher hates me when I say this, but you don’t need to buy my books. I mean, you can go to “theintrovertsedge.com/networking”, then you’ll be able to download the first chapter of the networking book, which will help you get over your anxiety around networking as an introvert. And it will outline the full process and you can access “theintrovertsedge.com” that will give you the same first chapter for the sales book.

Rod: Love it. Thank you so much for being on the show, Matthew. It’s been a real treat and you’ve added incredible value to a lot of my audience. I know that for sure. And it was very much my pleasure to meet you, my friend.

Matthew: So glad to hear that. Rod, thanks for having me on.

Rod: Thank you. Take care.

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