The Faith Behind Success

Intro
Hi. My name is Rod Khleif, and I’m the host of “The Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing” podcast. And every week, I interview Multifamily Rock Stars and we talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the “Like” and “Subscribe” buttons to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it.

Rod
Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re going to get tremendous pleasure and insights and value from the dynamic gentleman I’m interviewing today. His name is Ellis Hammond, and he’s the founder– well, he’s a full-time pastor, number one. But he’s also got a group called Symphony Capital Group. They’re in 800 doors and they’re under contract on another deal in Dallas right now. And just a really good guy. I’ve been on his show, which is called Kingdom REI, I believe. Isn’t it? Isn’t Kingdom REI?

Ellis
Yes.

Rod
That’s the name of the show? Yeah. And anyway, welcome to the show, brother. I’m glad you’re here.

Ellis
Rod, awesome to be here, man. Congrats on building a platform like you’ve built and, you know, that you’ve helped so many and excited to just partner with you in this today, man. So excited to be here.

Rod
Thank you. Well, let’s have some fun. So why don’t you start? I know you’ve got a pretty interesting story and, you know, I know you’re very faith-driven. So let’s hear about you. Let’s hear, you know, real estate.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
Let’s hear it.

Ellis
Yeah. So, you know, how many pastors do you have, that you had on the show in the past?

Rod
I don’t know. I don’t know that I’ve ever had one. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s– maybe one, but my memory is so bad. I forgot what happened [inaudible]

Ellis
Well, you’re pastoring, right? You shepherd a lot of people, man.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
No doubt about it. And helping a lot of people. But here’s the thing. I’m actually no longer a full-time pastor.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
So maybe this is the wrong bio.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
But I was a pastor for six years. I led a College Ministry called Campus Outreach, an absolutely fantastic time in my life where my faith came alive in College. And so it was one of those seasons in life where I really wanted to go and be able to do the same thing and provide what was given to me to other folks on the College campus. And that brought me out to San Diego. And it was an absolute incredible way to grow and develop in my early to mid-20s. And honestly, Rod, I never thought I would do anything else. Like I felt called to Pastoral Ministry. I still feel called to do, you know, Ministry as a man of faith. But I’ll tell you what was a turning point for me, and this will kind of launch us into this episode, I’m sure was about four years into that Ministry, we were growing a team. And to give you some context, we were kind of like missionaries in the sense that we raised all of our support, to support our nonprofit–

Rod
By the way, that was his one-year-old daughter in the background.

Ellis
Yes. So you might hear right now.

Rod
She may want to get on the show here. So, just let you guys know.

Ellis
So she loves the mic now. Careful before you invite her. She’s like her dad in that regard, right? She loves the camera.

Rod
Sorry I interrupted. I just wanted to explain.

Ellis
All good. Anyways, we were growing our nonprofit. We were growing pretty quickly. And I remember this day like it was yesterday while I was sitting on the College campus, four years into our Ministry, one of the young men that had come through our Ministry as a College student was now on staff with our team. And he was also raising funds, you know, to support what we were doing. And I just remember him coming to me one day, and, you know, this guy was typically really joyful, a guy that you would love to be around. And this was not one of those days. And I just said, what’s up, man? Like, what’s going on? He looked at me and he said, Ellis, I don’t have enough money to buy groceries this month. And do that hit me like a ton of breaks for several reasons. One, because I couldn’t help him. I didn’t have the funds myself. I didn’t have the resources, and I didn’t know how to go get them. Like, I was doing the same thing. And not only that but, you know, I think I had a turning point in my money mindset up to that point. If I’m being honest with you and being honest with your audience, I probably saw money as evil, I didn’t–

Rod
Really.

Ellis
You know, and not because that was my faith. Definitely, that was a part of it that I think maybe I got that. But I just saw what money did. My parents divorced at ten. That was always an issue. My dad died when I was 21, and he died worrying about money. Money just had such a terrible place and influence in my life that I didn’t want anything to do with it. But I realized at that moment, and I hope this speaks to your audience, that there was a guy who was trying to live his life for a great purpose. He was trying to help people. He was a man of God. And you know what the thing that he needed the most at that moment? He needed money.

Rod
I was going to say money. I didn’t want to be trite. I was going to say money.

Ellis
It is, man. That’s exactly what he needed. He needed money. And that’s when I had a turning point and a realization of I going to go figure out how to figure out this money game, how to build and create wealth. And I turned to real estate. Actually, I turned to a radio ad about real estate that said, if you want to learn how to invest in real estate, come to this two-hour workshop. Now, I didn’t go through that program, but I always say I walked into a room full of a bunch of normal Joes that I heard from a radio ad. And it was the first time in my life where I saw a bunch of average Joes, making massive amounts of money through real estate. And I just realized like real estate is not the end game. It’s the starting point for those who want to build wealth. And that changed my life.

Rod
Just to circle back for a second, what was your nonprofit about that you were raising money for?

Ellis
It was a College Ministry. And so it was really kind of a spiritual and personal development on the College campus. So we served kind of as like the College arm of a Church here in San Diego. And so we did discipleship Ministry, evangelism Ministry, and really kind of spiritual development across fraternities and athletic teams on College campuses. So we were really just building communities of faith across campuses here in San Diego.

Rod
Very nice. So you went to that two-hour course and got all fired up. What was next? I mean, how did you learn this business? You know, and now you’re in, I don’t know what– tens of millions of dollars, $87 million worth of real estate. So to give us a little progression, if you don’t mind, Ellis.

Ellis
Yeah. That number is old now, too, actually.

Rod
Right. Okay.

Ellis
But, yeah, I just kept hearing–I mean Rod, you were an influence in this, right?

Rod
Well. thank you.

Ellis
There were so many people that– I didn’t know. I mean, people asked you know, my network was negative. Like a negative network. Right? I was a college student who was my network. They have more debt and they have assets.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
So I just got hungry. I listened to everything I could. And the thing that I kept hearing was that first deal is the hardest and don’t take too long to get your first deal. And so this is not what I would recommend other people doing, but I didn’t know any better. I didn’t have, you know, someone like you, a mentor, telling me, go bigger. So the first deal we did was a duplex here in San Diego, California.

Rod
Well, in San Diego, a duplex is what, over a million bucks?

Ellis
Yeah. Well, at that point it is– I sold it for over a million dollars. At that point, I bought it for half a million.

Rod
Okay, good. All right.

Ellis
Yeah. But I did, just funny you say that because I did just sell it for over a million bucks. When I bought it it was 572, which was the price we bought it for. And we didn’t have the money, man. I convinced a family investor to put up the down payment. My wife and I put in the sweat equity and we created more money. In that deal, we created more equity in the first 12 months of that project than we probably had ever made in three years as being in the Ministry. And that’s like when the light bulb went off. We can do this. Real estate is the answer. But it was also the turning point of like, I’m not ever going to do a duplex again because that was so much work. But that was our start.

Rod
I want to follow this track if you don’t mind.

Ellis
Sure.

Rod
So what happened to get you to go after a larger deal? Did you align with someone as a sponsor? Did you–because, I mean, this is going to help people that are out there wondering how they get started in this. So you started with a duplex. What was the next step?

Ellis
Yeah, 100%. It’s a great question because I always say like the two things that move this business forward are deals and capital. And if you’re just getting started, pick one. Right. Don’t try and figure out this whole business. And don’t wait till you know the whole business to get in is really, like you said, align yourself with other experienced operators. It’s exactly what happened. Someone–and again, when you say you’re going to go do something and you’re aligned on that, you know, God aligns–you know, provides those answers.

Rod
Yes. You bet.

Ellis
And that’s honestly what happened. Like, someone called me and said, hey, did you know that your experience in raising money for nonprofits, you could leverage that for real estate? I’m like, no, is that legal? You know, like, am I going to go to jail? And so that’s when I learned about syndication.

Rod
Okay, so you came in as raising equity for somebody.

Ellis
That’s exactly right.

Rod
Got you. Okay. And guys, if you have the–I mean, obviously, you’re a great speaker. You spoke in front of, you know, groups for your Ministry. And so you’re a great communicator. And so if that’s your skillset if you’re listening and that’s your skill set, you know, raising equity could absolutely be a great contribution to someone’s team. And people are always looking for money. But there’s a caveat. You have to do more than just raise money. You’ve got to be involved in the deal. In the, you know, upfront, due diligence, the ongoing asset management, you know, whatever it is, you have to play a role other than raising money. Otherwise, the SEC will knock on your door and that’s something you don’t want. But, okay, so that’s how you got going. And so you met somebody that had a deal they were working or you networked and found somebody, and that’s how you aligned with a team. Yes?

Ellis
Yeah, 100%.

Rod
Okay.

Ellis
I mean, I’m not special. But then I worked my butt off and I met everyone there was to me. And I mean, just like this, I remember I was still in College Ministry, and anyone who would give me five minutes on the phone– and not that I have anything to provide, I just was like, I knew like most things in my life, every good thing came through a connection. And so it was just one connection after another and trying to find, you know, someone that I would align with. And that’s exactly what happened. And I got to build a relationship with someone for several months. And the next deal came up and I said, you know, give me a chance to see what we can do together. And that was the start. And, you know, that kind of proved out a concept. And about a year later I–yeah, I guess about a year maybe–

Rod
Are you still with the same partner or did you–

Ellis
No, that was just kind of a deal we did together. You know, we’ve since started our own company. I mean, now, our company, Symphony Capital Group, is our own thing. But that was the start. I mean, that was before there was Symphony. That was just endless.

Rod
Okay.

Ellis
So that’s how we got in. But, you know, just connections. [inaudible]

Rod
So, building those connections. Did you go to events? Did you go to meetups? What did you do to build those connections?

Ellis
Early on, man, I didn’t have the money to go to events, Rod.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
Like, I just called people on the phone, like I listened to a podcast show. People would give their information and I would call them.

Rod
Oh, no kidding. So just outbound phone calls. Okay. That’s a way. That’s a way to do it.

Ellis
That’s all I had the money for.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
I didn’t have one to go to these events.

Rod
There are meetup groups, though. I know San Diego. Hell, one of my warriors puts one on. I know that. But, you know, that’s a place where you can meet other people.

Ellis
Yeah, for sure. But I’ll be honest with you. A lot of those meetups are, you know, guys that aren’t– I mean, they were like me.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
Everyone’s kind of in the same boat. I’m like, this is not helpful.

Rod
Okay.

Ellis
Let’s see, I guess mid-2019, a little bit before we left transitioning over to full-time Ministry, well, I looked at my wife and said, honey, I need 20 grand. I need to take 20 grand. That was probably all that we had. And I said I need this to just invest in my network. And that’s when I started showing up to a couple of events.

Rod
Do you ever come to one of mine?

Ellis
I’m not. No, I’m not coming to one of yours. I know, right?

Rod
What a shame. I’ve got one coming up in July, the end of July. And you’re certainly welcome to come as my guest. It’s going to be in Denver on 29th, 30th, and 31st. It should be about 1000 people there. So it’s very exciting.

Ellis
Well, I love that. And I would say if he was listening, go, if they’re like, man, this is where I’m at. Because those types of things change my life. Because of those connections, those relationships I made have made me thousands and million–you know, they’ve made me– literally, I look at that investment, I literally seven X that investment the next year.

Rod
Sure.

Ellis
Meaning I put in 20 grand, right, and I seven X that in terms of revenue the following year. And then the next year, we bought over $100 million in real estate. So, like, it works.

Rod
Right. So you’ve been at this three years then? Is that about right?

Ellis
Well, I bought our first deal at the beginning of 2018.

Rod
Okay.

Ellis
So a little bit longer, but our company, we founded Symphony at the beginning of 2020, but we’ve been doing deals a little bit longer than that.

Rod
Okay.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
Awesome. Well, you know, because you’re a former pastor, talk about why profit matters according to the Bible, because, I mean, this is not a religious podcast, but, you know, there are certainly a lot of Christians and religious people that listen.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
And so I’d be interested to get your take on that question.

Ellis
Yeah, it’s a good question. I think I might have promised you to ask that only because I do think it’s a limiting belief, Rod, for so many listening. And regardless if you’re Christian or religious or not, we know that money has a negative stigma and if you have a negative– we all got baggage. Like we all got money baggage. I’ve never met anyone that doesn’t have money baggage.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
And if you don’t know what that is, the reality is that’s very likely limiting your ability to produce more of it in your life.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
And that’s what I didn’t realize. I didn’t realize that money flows to value. Right? And so I always had this negative attraction towards money because I saw what I thought money was doing to my parents, and what money did to you know, different scenarios in my life. And so I said I didn’t want that. But that story and what I want to help people realize is it’s not about money. Profit creates options for people. Right? And there’s absolutely nothing wrong– the Bible actually teaches that the love of money is the root of all evil money.

Rod
Right. It’s the love of money. That’s right.

Ellis
Right. Money is a tool.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
Money is a utility. And the honest thing about right now, this challenges a lot of people in my community who are Christians is the more that–you know, we always think we’re being a good steward of money if we don’t spend it or we’re holding on to it, I would say actually, I think that shows that you still idolize money because money is the tool. And if you’re not willing to invest it and spend it to get you to where you want to go, why are you holding on to it? What’s the point? Right. And so for me, man, I see money as a tool, but I see profit is probably the better thing to talk about here, because what does profit allow us to do? Well, if I had profit, if I had margin in my life for that young man four or five years ago, I would have been able to fund his Ministry.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
Right? Margin in my business allows me, one, to take care of my family. It allows me to give my daughter a great education, but it also allows us to do great things for our residents, for our tenants. Right. It allows us to give to nonprofits and ministries. So again, it’s just a challenging thought for folks who kind of come with money baggage is, you know, change the way you think about money. Like, money flows to value.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
And if I ask you this question, Rod, how much value should you create in the world? How much would you save? If the question was just value? And I said, Rod, how much value you should [inaudible]

Rod
Here’s how I’ll answer it. The people that are the most successful on the planet are the ones that add the most value. Okay?

Ellis
100%.

Rod
I mean, look at Jeff Bezos okay? I can go right now and I can buy that lamp behind you in about 30 seconds on Amazon if I can find it fast enough. But, I mean, you know, literally, you know, adding value. And I live my life trying to add as much value as I can. I mean, I used to–you know, when I first did my podcast, I took 30 minutes phone calls from my listeners, free calls. I don’t have anything to sell. I said, let me just see if I can help you. I took hundreds of them. Now, you know, I’ve got here are some of the books I’ve written over the last, you know, four years that I give away for free, you know, trying to add value. We’re always constantly trying to improve our Warrior coaching program. In fact, we just added a weekly email with a resource that just literally, started this week. You know, just finished my asset management book and am giving that away for free. And so, you know, it’s all about value. And when you are out there, you know, like in social media or trying to create reach, like on your podcast, for example, you know, it’s about two things, adding value and being consistent. That’s it. And if you do that, you’ll create reach and you don’t need the 13 million downloads I’m getting, you can do it with a few hundred. You know, so, yeah. I don’t know if I answered your question.

Ellis
No, you did. I mean, the answer is infinite. You want to bring as much as you can. And your point, Jeff Bezos. And it’s why you’re so successful. It’s why your program is so successful. It’s why Jeff Bezos is the richest man on the planet, you know depending on where Tesla is.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
Is because they focus on value. And money flows to value and it has nothing to do with– so my point is, if we’re creating infinite value in the world, then likely we’re going to have lots of money. And then the question becomes, what do I do with that money? And that’s really it.

Rod
That’s it.

Ellis
And so that’s the principle.

Rod
I mean, you know, you give to nonprofits. I’ve got one. I’ve fed probably close to 120,000 kids for the last 20 years and quite a few other things as well. And you know, and so that’s what it gives us– it gives me the ability, of course, I have the lifestyle I’ve wanted. I love to travel and all those things. But, you know, I know that both you and I, through our show are impacting lots of people through my training. You impact people, you’ve got a mastermind. You help people as well. We’re both out there making the world a better place, helping people realize their dreams. It’s a beautiful thing.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
So, you know, what suggestions would you have for someone that’s thinking about getting into this business that has not maybe pulled the trigger on anything yet? Maybe they haven’t done anything. They just know they want more out of life. They don’t want to be in the same place they are now a year from now.

Ellis
Yeah, well, I would say you can tell the man’s future by the books he reads and the people he hangs out with. And so, I mean, if you don’t have any money, then figure out how to spend, you know, round up $50 and buy some books. And buy some books that really will stretch your mindset. For me, that was “Think and Grow Rich”. That was the T. Harv Eker book, “Millionaire Mindset”. I think.

Rod
I was going to talk about T. Harv because the reason– I’m sorry I interrupted you, but T. Harv Eker, he used to do a whole weekend course that I went to once, all about these money constraints that we live, this box that we live in. And so I’m really glad you brought him up because that’s a great example of the dilemma that, you know, quite a few Christians are you know, might face. Right?

Ellis
Yeah. By the way, that’s an uncomfortable book for me. Like if you’re a strong Christian, like that book is not going to sit well with you. But that’s exactly why you need to read it.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
And here’s the thing. I think most people like, you don’t have to agree with everything.

Rod
No. Of course not.

Ellis
It’s not the point.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
Right. The point is it’s going to stretch you to think– to see the world differently, and that’s what it did for me. And so things like that are really helpful. And like I said, the people you hang out with, I don’t know what your coaching program is. Right, Rod. Well, let’s say it’s 25 grand.

Rod
It’s not that much, but thank you.

Ellis
Yeah. Sure. Well, maybe it should be, right. So let’s say it is, though, and someone comes to you and says, well, I can’t afford that yet. I always say that’s the time you need to spend the 25 grand because if you still think 25 grand is a lot of money, you need to be around different people who could help you realize what’s possible. I asked someone the other day, if they could dream, like, what would be an ideal amount of money they would make this year. And they told me 100 grand. And I said, well, what’s keeping you from making that decision? I’m like, well, we don’t want to spend 20K to be a part of you know, a program. I’m like, dude, if you think 100 grand is a lot of money, you need to spend that as fast as possible because that 20K is your biggest limiting factor.

Rod
Yeah. I used to have a sign above my bed that said 100,000 a month. And my wife hated it then. Now it says a million a month. She hates that one, too. But, yeah, you know.

Ellis
Yeah. Because what you know now that was possible is, you know, 100K would be a bad year for you. And so those are huge for me, I mean because your network makes all the difference. And this business, right, we’re talking on my real estate here, I said it’s very simple in my opinion. It comes down to two things, and it will always come down to these two things. It will come down to finding really good deals, and it will come down to finding money to fund those deals. And you don’t have to be an expert at both. You need to be an expert at one. And partner with others to do the other.

Rod
Yeah, no question. This business is a team sports guys, you guys know that.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
And it really is that simple. It really is that simple. By the way, if you want a free book, go to “RodsLinks.com”. And I’ve got several free books there. But my main, you know, number one bestseller is there. You just pay the shipping and you get it. And, you know, I’ve got a lot of rave reviews about that book. But anyway, “RodsLinks” is linked to all my stuff, including that free book. And the boot camp that’s coming up, too, by the way, guys. So, you know, let’s move past the brand new operator.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
And talk about– well, first of all, as you are going through this, did you–you hear it in the background. As you’re going through this, do you have any epiphanies or any aha moments? And you were like, holy cow, now I get it moments.

Ellis
Like every day.

Rod
Yeah. Okay.

Ellis
I mean, I think the one we could really ramp on because this is true at every point and yeah, I mean, we’ve talked to the new investors. Let’s talk to the maybe guys who are in the business because, you know, I’m learning this more and more every day. Listen, go bigger.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
Like, go bigger. I mean, that is a limiting belief to think that you can’t go bigger. I mean, it’s just–now that I’m playing bigger, you know, like I’m having these conversations. I’m under contract on a big deal. Let’s talk about equity for a minute. You know, we’ve syndicated most of our funds for most of our deals from LPs up to this point. And so the issue with that is the question is always, do I have enough funding? Right. Like, do my LPs have enough money to fund our deals? Well, when you begin to play bigger and you’re starting to work with institutional money or larger crowdfunding platforms, the conversation is totally different because now it’s not a question of do they have enough money? The issue is I need to place this money. And that was an epiphany for me of like, oh my gosh, there’s a whole other world I don’t even know about that the issue is not money. The issue is I am losing money because I’m holding on to it. Like I need better places, faster places to put money. And so, you know, we’re talking with groups about programmatic funding because they want to work with us on multiple deals because they need good sponsors to place that money with on a repeating basis. And so, that’s an epiphany for me. And I think if you’re just doing a couple of deals and, you know, most of your mentors are kind of in the syndication world and that’s all you know, I’m like, it might be time to study some other options because what I’ve learned is there are other ways. I’m not saying it’s better. I’m just saying like–

Rod
Well, there are positives and negatives. I’m going to tell you

Ellis
100%.

Rod
When you’re dealing with that world, you’re almost always giving up some control.

Ellis
Yeah.

Rod
Very often you’ve got some metrics that you have to adhere to. And, you know, I remember we bought an asset in Kentucky that the guy did not want to sell, but his private equity company was making him sell. And so, you know, you can have situations like that you want to be careful of. But yeah, I mean, you know, when you get into the larger deals, you have to have other resources for money. You can’t do it at 50, 100 grand a pop.

Ellis
To exactly what you say, Rod. Let me go on that. And what you just said, you’re giving up control. I heard that a lot in the last several years. Don’t go do this because you’re giving up control. Let me just say what I’ve realized in the last several months. Who cares?

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
Like, if this company allows me to buy $12 billion of real estate over the next decade, I mean, I’m not even holding these deals for– I’m not a ten-year investor, man. We’re valued at multifamily, guys. We’re going to increase in revenue, getting the most amount of returns for investors in the shortest amount of time. Control. That’s not the season of life I’m in. And when I realize that, I’m like, well, why would I not give up control for growth. And so, that’s–again–

Rod
I am going to push back a little bit.

Ellis
Please. Because it’s an open conversation.

Rod
I’m going to push back because, you know, the problem with it is if for example, that fund or that family office or, you know, wherever you know, that private equity fund has a situation where they need liquidity, they can force things that you aren’t going to be happy with. Sometimes, not always. It depends on– you know, you want a really good attorney reviewing. All your documentation is going to be a lot of back and forth and so on and so forth. Sometimes it’s a small degree of control. Sometimes it’s a large degree of control, and it depends on the amount invested and who you’re dealing with. But the key here is absolutely don’t let it be a limitation for sure. Okay.

Ellis
Right.

Rod
Because that’s how you’re going to get– no question. I agree with you there. It’s just, you know, both eyes wide open is the only caveat that I have. And, you know, there are some situations where there are some– especially the fact that we’re heading into a recession. And now everybody is going to tighten up. And no, no, and with a recession, it’s going to be an incredible opportunity. Okay. Get excited. Don’t get fearful. Get excited. But with that happening, you know, some of those controls can have, you know, NOI metrics involved. They can have, you know, vacancy metrics involved that will trigger, you know, things that aren’t very desirable if you’re not careful. So the point I’m making here, Ellis, and I agree with you fundamentally, especially globally. I agree with you. The point I’m making is just careful and make sure you don’t jump into something. Make sure you really have your stuff reviewed, you negotiate it, and so on and so forth.

Ellis
Right.

Rod
So that you don’t get yourself in one of those challenging, you know, situations.

Ellis
Well, and if they have all their equity in the deals and they should have some level of control.

Rod
Agreed.

Ellis
And you have to realize that.

Rod
Agreed.

Ellis
That makes 100% sense. And I would just say, up to this point in my life, every time I’ve– the network that I’ve swim in since I started, that was the only thing I ever heard about private equity, which don’t do it, you’re going to give up control. And I’m just saying it may not be for everyone, but just realizing that maybe this is for me, I don’t have to do it the way everyone else has done it.

Rod
No, agreed.

Ellis
And that’s the point I’m kind of trying to make. It’s just different problems at this level.

Rod
Agreed. No, I mean, congratulations. Now, let me ask you this. Knowing what you know now, and I know, you know, you get this question on other interviews, but knowing what you know now. Going back a few years, is there anything you do differently?

Ellis
I feel like I’m trying to do this now. I mean, I would continue to spend as much money that I, you know, at least I don’t want to say I feel comfortable because I probably spend more than I’m uncomfortable with. But I try to continue to see relationships as the greatest asset that I have.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
And I try and spend more and more money each year getting access to relationships because, for example, in this deal right now, if I didn’t have–if I had not spent, you know, six figures on personal development, Masterminds last year, I wouldn’t know who to call when I got this deal under contract.

Rod
Yeah.

Ellis
There’s been no problem for me because now I know who to call.

Rod
Right.

Ellis
So I continue to see that as a great asset. I continue to spend more and more money on building a team and marketing around my personal brand, realizing how important that is. And so, you know, I would have spent more money, spent more time on that earlier, building out my personal brand, getting out my personal message. That’s really key. And, you know, I mean, we’re just trying to buy bigger deals, you know, and partner more people, go bigger. I spend a lot of time kind of buying hairy, small deals because that’s what I thought I could have afforded. And like many, I was making decisions based on my current network and my current resources. And that was how I was making decisions. And just realizing, no, I can push myself a little bit, push our team a little bit. Doing something bigger allows more people to be a part of it. And, you know, I think everyone could probably push themselves a little bit.

Rod
Yeah, no question. You know, it’s interesting you talked about your network really being your net worth. I mean, that’s basically what you said. I’m twisting the words a little bit. But, yeah, like, my students now own somewhere between 60 and 70,000 doors that I know of. And I’ve only been teaching, you know, what, four and a half years and something I’m very proud of. But what’s interesting is most of those deals were done between warriors. They were done between, you know, my students. You know, and if you’re looking at this business, get into a network, you know, get around people that are doing it and it really makes all the difference in the world. My most connected warriors are my most successful warriors. You know this is I’m speaking about my group. Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on, brother. And, you know, it was fun to you know, have a little bit of the faith-based conversation here. And again guys, his name is Symphony Capital Group. Ellis, I appreciate you coming on, brother and maybe I’ll see you in Denver if you can make it.

Ellis
Rod, a long time coming, man. Glad to be here and grateful for the opportunity to speak to your audience. Good luck, everybody. Go big.

Rod
Thanks.

Rod
Rod, I know a lot of our listeners are wanting to take their multifamily investing business to the next level. Now, I know you’ve been hard at work helping our warrior students do just that using our “ACT” methodology which is Awareness, Close, and Transform. Can you explain to the listeners how they can get our help?

Rod
You bet. Guys, we’ve been going nonstop for three years building an amazing community of like-minded people, and our coaching students which we call our warriors have had extraordinary results. They’ve purchased thousands and thousands of units and last year we did over 1000 units with our students. And we’re looking to grow this group and take it to the next level. We’re looking for people who want to follow a proven framework that’s really step by step and then leverage our systems and network to raise equity, to find and close deals, and to build partnerships nationwide. Now, our warrior community is finding success in any market cycle. So if you’re interested in finding out more about how you can become more of our incredible network and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that are coming very soon, apply to work with us at “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345” and we’ll set up a call so you can check us out and we can check you out. That’s “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345”.