After 25 years as an executive in advertising and market research, Holly Williams realized she was trading time for money — and losing more of it to taxes every year. Her search for true financial freedom led her to the world of private real estate investments, particularly multifamily assets, where the wealthiest Americans quietly grow and preserve their wealth. Through Hidden Investing, Holly now helps others break free from traditional financial myths and access the high-performing opportunities once reserved for the elite.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- Why investors are hurting right now and what most people are missing
- The hidden opportunities behind today’s market chaos
- The Importance of Mindset & Overcoming Fear
- The Last Deal Holly Bought in 2023
- What no one tells you about the rollercoaster of partnerships
- The ugly truth about dealing with terrible management companies
- Why the right partners make or break your investing success
- How showing up at meetups can 10x your real estate career
- Holly’s Book Overview, The 10 Myths of Money
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
Full Transcript Below
01:20:08:29 – 01:20:25:03
Rod
Welcome to another edition of Life Time Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled that you’re here, and I am just so excited to interview my guest, who is a good friend, a hoot, and a brilliant, frickin investor, Holly Williams. Welcome to the show, sweetheart.
01:20:25:04 – 01:20:34:13
Holly
Hey, welcome, welcome, welcome to. You know, I am just thrilled to be here. I recently moved out of this area, so I’m excited to.
01:20:34:15 – 01:20:46:19
Rod
That’s right. All right. You’re in Lakewood Ranch. You’re right, you’re right. You’re right down the street. And, you’re in the flowers and butterflies and, green. Now, live a full life is beautiful. It’s so frickin beautiful.
01:20:46:19 – 01:20:48:27
Holly
Like alligators swim by, you.
01:20:48:27 – 01:21:10:20
Rod
Know, don’t get any better. The name doesn’t get any better than that, right? Absolutely. So, listen, I know you’re a huge investor as an LP and a GP, and, we won’t even think about how many thousands of units, but why don’t you tell us a little bit of the background, you know, where you started and why real estate and, maybe bring us current.
01:21:10:24 – 01:21:32:12
Holly
So I knew about real estate. And my husband and I actually have a four family house in Brooklyn. We rent and I’ve done some single family homes, but I didn’t really realize that you could invest passively in other private investments. I was an accredited investor for years and didn’t even know what that meant.
01:21:32:14 – 01:21:51:14
Rod
By the way, for those of you that don’t know what that means, an accredited investor is somebody that makes 200,000 a year with the expectation of it. To continue married, they have to make 300,000 a year expectation to continue or their net worth is $1 million without their personal residence. Now they’re talking about relaxing those. But anyway, we won’t go down that rabbit hole just.
01:21:51:16 – 01:22:15:25
Holly
If you live in New York City, right? And you are married, right? And you don’t make to your right, you know, you’re living in a third floor walkup, right? Right. You know, with the bathtub in the living room. Right. And so I, you know, I didn’t know what I thought. I was the only wanted to know. And I had a 30 year career in advertising and data were for Nielsen, you know.
01:22:15:29 – 01:22:20:26
Holly
Oh, no. Call the data providers and cancel, you know, all of that. And so I’m well.
01:22:21:00 – 01:22:22:21
Rod
On the analytical side or on the sales.
01:22:22:21 – 01:22:31:05
Holly
Side and sales side mostly. Yeah. Right. At sold advertising, you know, so I was early to the AOL thing and, and oh my.
01:22:31:08 – 01:22:33:04
Rod
AOL with the discs and everything, I’m.
01:22:33:04 – 01:22:59:11
Holly
Telling you, you’ve got mail. Yeah. That’s right. Right. And so, you know, I started reaching out when Joe and I found when my partner and I found this, a project in Houston where I happened to have grown up. I was amazed when I called my friends and colleagues in advertising and said, hey, and explain to them what I was doing.
01:22:59:18 – 01:23:26:05
Holly
They’re like, Holly, I’ve lost money in a land deal. A few, and you know, that’s not for me. They didn’t understand. Right. But when they invest in a REIT, right. And in the stop at through Ameritrade or whatever, they they’re investing in the secondary market and none of the most of most of the, the, the people running it don’t have skin in the game.
01:23:26:07 – 01:23:27:27
Holly
You know, they probably.
01:23:27:29 – 01:23:34:27
Rod
And and very often they’re not they’re more knowledgeable on how to sell than analyzing the actual investment.
01:23:35:00 – 01:23:40:27
Holly
That’s correct. And you know, and also they’re taking their fees no matter what.
01:23:40:28 – 01:23:42:02
Rod
Right? They get paid regardless.
01:23:42:03 – 01:24:04:09
Holly
No matter what. Well, what what private syndication does or at least how I work is I don’t get paid. If the deal doesn’t work, I can tell you that many a few times with this real estate more, we’ll get into the current real estate market. I’m sure, I’m sure, but we have foregone we have. We’ve made any money.
01:24:04:09 – 01:24:20:19
Holly
We’ve given it all to investors. Right? Because, you know, it’s a challenging market right now. Right. But thankfully, you know, I’ve been conservative enough to where we’re not underwater, you know, but a lot of a lot of syndicators right now.
01:24:20:20 – 01:24:39:11
Rod
Oh, there’s a lot, a lot, a lot of trouble out there. I mean, I can’t tell you how many deals I know are being marketed for the debt right now. So that means the people that put equity in are done, you know, and, and and you know, it’s it’s I’m seeing tons of those right now. And, you know, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of just, you know, a lot of pain.
01:24:39:16 – 01:24:43:22
Rod
Yeah. So why don’t you speak to why that is. And,
01:24:43:24 – 01:24:46:29
Holly
Yes, I think that a lot of,
01:24:47:01 – 01:24:49:07
Rod
Because they hear it from me, I want them to hear it from somebody, you know?
01:24:49:08 – 01:24:59:21
Holly
Let’s start again. There was a lot of hype right? A lot of people were making lots of money. And a lot of people got into this that didn’t have a lot of experience.
01:24:59:21 – 01:25:00:22
Rod
Right.
01:25:00:25 – 01:25:09:08
Holly
And the government or the Federal Reserve, whatever, has not helped us at all.
01:25:09:08 – 01:25:10:22
Rod
You know.
01:25:10:24 – 01:25:22:03
Holly
Never even I mean, I know people, I know syndicators that bought no rate caps, right? Are you kidding me? I know, so, even when the vetting was good, we were buying rate caps.
01:25:22:03 – 01:25:22:16
Rod
Oh, sure.
01:25:22:17 – 01:25:27:00
Holly
No way. Caps. We’re buying. We’re like, $100,000. Oh, and this, like 1.5 million.
01:25:27:01 – 01:25:45:08
Rod
Oh, yeah. No. Let me give you an example of a rate cap. So guys, rate cap is where you where you pay to make sure that your interest rate doesn’t go up more than a certain percentage over a period of time. And back in 2020, you could get a $100 million rate cap 3% for $20,000.
01:25:45:08 – 01:25:45:25
Holly
Crazy.
01:25:45:25 – 01:26:10:20
Rod
Same recap for one year. Forget three years for that was a three year rate cap. For one year was like, I want to say 2.4 million and 100 million. Right. So and I remember early on when this thing collapsed, we were I was looking at an asset in San Antonio where the guy’s the the gentleman selling it was a smaller deal, but his reserve payment went from 8000 a month to 80,000 a month.
01:26:10:28 – 01:26:17:00
Rod
I mean, hello, you just can’t. I mean, that’s a small deal, but but the point is. Yeah. Anyway, continue.
01:26:17:03 – 01:26:41:01
Holly
Oftentimes they’ll work with the with the people that are really having trouble. Like I’m about to default on the loan. And and those of us who are cash flow positive but not like we were right. And not you know we may have to have a small capital call or something like that. But it’s a struggle right. They’re wanting people like us to come to the table and buy down the debt.
01:26:41:01 – 01:26:52:26
Holly
Right. But you know, so okay, so you know, your cash flow positive. You’re meeting all the this your right, you know, criteria. But now we want to 1.4 or 1.5.
01:26:52:27 – 01:27:11:09
Rod
Right. They want to raise the debt service coverage ratio. By the way guys the debt service coverage ratio is, you know, in our world, in the commercial real estate world, the the lenders look at the property’s ability to service the debt. They’re not looking at your personal income. And so, the average debt service coverage ratio a lender likes to see is 1.25%.
01:27:11:09 – 01:27:31:21
Rod
So to give you a quick example of what that means, let’s say the debt payment is 100,000 a year. It would be an annual calculation, 100,000 a year. And then the net income is 125,000 a year. So 100 in debt, 125 an income. That’s a 1.25% debt service coverage ratio. So yeah. So now lenders are saying they want more than that just because they have the ability to do that.
01:27:31:21 – 01:27:39:14
Holly
Yeah that’s right. Even if you’ve never been late right. Even because they want to hedge their bets against the the the.
01:27:39:14 – 01:27:40:01
Rod
Operators are.
01:27:40:01 – 01:27:40:09
Holly
Having.
01:27:40:09 – 01:27:41:18
Rod
Trouble. Right right.
01:27:41:18 – 01:27:48:00
Holly
Right. So we’ve done preferred equity where we’ve gone out and and done we’ve done a promissory note.
01:27:48:01 – 01:27:48:12
Rod
Right.
01:27:48:18 – 01:28:07:06
Holly
So all of there’s a difference between any kind of, promissory note or preferred equity. We’ve done a couple of capital calls, but that’s almost always been to pay down that debt. No kidding. Because the lenders were wanting, you know. So you’re buying equity. Yeah.
01:28:07:08 – 01:28:08:04
Rod
So that’s equity.
01:28:08:04 – 01:28:13:19
Holly
Yeah I have seen a lot of these that the cap call is just to stay above.
01:28:13:25 – 01:28:30:10
Rod
Oh no. Just a just a float. No I, I’m in some some deals with the next partner that, that that our and we had to do capital calls just to stay afloat. And so, you know and, and I will tell you, investors are burned out on capital calls. They are big time out, completely burned out. So.
01:28:30:12 – 01:28:42:26
Holly
You know, although I have only done three of them and I’m in a right now probably 15, you know, ten or 12 or 15 deals. I was kind of tracked. We were able to sell.
01:28:42:29 – 01:28:48:01
Rod
We were able to sell some. Yeah. We’re selling a bunch right now too. Right. Terrible time to sell though.
01:28:48:01 – 01:28:59:08
Holly
Well, it was an okay time to sell. Yeah. And we were in three years into it and still delivered to, you know, 1.3 equity multiple. That’s was. Yeah. Yeah. Great.
01:28:59:09 – 01:29:15:17
Rod
I mean what you got out of a challenging deal I’m assuming these were deals. Yeah. They were all they all know every one of them. And you know where I wanted you to go with my question about why their challenge is it’s not just the bridge debt. It’s it’s it’s inflation has made all of our expenses go up crazy.
01:29:15:20 – 01:29:23:06
Rod
I mean, forget just taxes and insurance which have got insurance gone through the roof, but but just payroll, you know, finding.
01:29:23:06 – 01:29:24:17
Holly
Somebody to get on the payroll.
01:29:24:17 – 01:29:31:01
Rod
Yeah, exactly. Even finding somebody. Exactly. It’s like they don’t want to work. And it depends on where you’re at. But, and.
01:29:31:01 – 01:29:33:26
Holly
If even if you’re down the street, they still don’t want to work.
01:29:34:00 – 01:29:34:12
Rod
Right?
01:29:34:15 – 01:29:56:23
Holly
Right. I mean, I had a I have my partners are in Louisville, Kentucky. Two of my great partners look great market markets. The rents are going I mean, we’re getting rent increases of like five, six, 7%. It’s expenses. Well, I had an investor go buy the property just to look at it early on. And there was a note on the door we’ve gone to lunch or what.
01:29:56:25 – 01:29:58:12
Holly
Oh okay. Oh yeah. Are you going to rent.
01:29:58:14 – 01:30:21:17
Rod
Well now now we’re talking management. We’re going to talk about management companies here in a minute. But but but it’s the expenses even on are even on supplies. Supplies have gone through the roof. You know, I remember seeing these, these funny, emojis or not emojis but but graphics on social media where, where, where it showed a pile of lumber and somebody said, yeah, this is my retirement fund or something, you know, because lumber went through the roof, you know, and things like that.
01:30:21:17 – 01:30:37:03
Holly
But we’re doing so much better in rents. Yeah, than we are. So on the revenue side doing right. Right. And we have moved. So what we’re finding is in some unit like we don’t need to do as much of a renovation to get the rents up.
01:30:37:03 – 01:30:43:01
Rod
Right. No, we’ve we’ve done deals where we’ve we had planned to do a bunch of it and then the rents, we’re getting the rent. So why spend the money.
01:30:43:01 – 01:30:53:26
Holly
But we need to fix the stairs. Right. And we need to just we’ve got to move that money from, you know, the apartment, you know, from renovations to CapEx.
01:30:53:26 – 01:30:56:15
Rod
Yeah. Needed needed CapEx. Yeah. We need a CapEx.
01:30:56:15 – 01:31:06:27
Holly
The lenders are difficult about that, too, because they see you varying from the plan and that sort of thing, even though you really don’t need to do we’re still getting the rents.
01:31:07:00 – 01:31:11:23
Rod
Yeah. No, we had that happen on an asset in Houston. Is this. Yeah, it’s a long story.
01:31:11:23 – 01:31:32:13
Holly
I don’t think investors, when they shouldn’t, they don’t have to understand everything. Right. But, but I’m not sure that investors really understand how how just to get the lender to move the money from the. Yeah, it’s obvious that we need to fix the shares. Right. And it’s and it really is.
01:31:32:13 – 01:31:33:16
Rod
Oh, no, it’s a pain.
01:31:33:24 – 01:31:37:08
Holly
I’m not it’s not even a pain. It’s just hard work. Right. It really is.
01:31:37:08 – 01:31:55:24
Rod
So, Well, that’s what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s so many. It’s so much some so many, so different. So much communication and so. And then the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand’s doing at these, at these lenders. And you know, we’ve got, we’re waiting on an almost million dollar payout on a fire we had on an asset, and the lender’s just dragging their feet.
01:31:55:24 – 01:32:03:13
Rod
It’s just, you know, I think they’re making the spread on that money right now. So they’ll hang on to it as long as they can. And, you know, it’s it’s kind of ridiculous.
01:32:03:13 – 01:32:04:11
Holly
But roofs.
01:32:04:13 – 01:32:04:23
Rod
Yeah.
01:32:05:00 – 01:32:05:15
Holly
Same thing.
01:32:05:15 – 01:32:06:03
Rod
Yeah. Roofs.
01:32:06:03 – 01:32:10:13
Holly
Yeah $1 million. We’re going to get on the roof. Right. But we need where is it.
01:32:10:18 – 01:32:18:05
Rod
Yeah exactly. They’re holding on to it. They’ve gotten it from the insurance company. And which is the case in our deal. But it’s like, hey, where’s the money? Hello? Show me the.
01:32:18:05 – 01:32:36:22
Holly
Money. And then he was talking about privatizing Fannie Mae. Oh, yeah, that sort of thing. And so there’s a lot of uncertainty and volatility, both on the market side and internally just managing those costs that are going up. Sure. Managing those people.
01:32:36:27 – 01:32:52:27
Rod
Yeah. The average expense ratio was 50%. It’s pretty hard to get that right now. Right? I mean, because, you know, everything has gone through the roof. And so, you know, and that’s impacting these deals. And we’re going to see a lot of distressed assets on the market. And I will tell you, I think we’re going to see some significant bank failures as well.
01:32:52:27 – 01:33:09:14
Rod
Small and regional banks that are holding this commercial debt. I’ve got my money. I don’t know where you’ve got your money, but I’ve got my money in a in a bank that spreads it out over 80 banks. So the never more than 250. Same for you. Yeah. So it’s never more 215 in your bank because, you know, we want at least we have the FDIC.
01:33:09:14 – 01:33:11:24
Rod
If that goes down then then we may go home.
01:33:12:00 – 01:33:22:23
Holly
But I just don’t. So there’s a lot of uncertainty. And whenever there’s uncertainty there’s fear. Fear. Yeah. And you know that goes right back to mindset. Right.
01:33:22:27 – 01:33:25:12
Rod
And understanding is what I love to talk about.
01:33:25:12 – 01:33:45:21
Holly
Right. Yeah. And the the universes I believe on the side of of good I really do. And I think that it there’s always a way to make it work as long as you were responsible on the front end. I mean we bought the last deal that I was involved with that we bought was in 2023.
01:33:45:23 – 01:33:46:28
Rod
Wow. It’s been that long.
01:33:46:28 – 01:33:49:18
Holly
Well the end of it like yeah same here.
01:33:49:18 – 01:33:52:20
Rod
Same here actually. Same here. Exactly the same. That was the last deal with.
01:33:52:24 – 01:33:54:28
Holly
So I’m not going to buy something that’s not. No.
01:33:55:02 – 01:34:09:03
Rod
And you know I’ll tell you though not to not to completely derail. All right. But I am I am I am very both of us. I think I’m the worst I have. I have four and a half stars on my podcast instead of five because I interrupt too much. I get too excited.
01:34:09:03 – 01:34:09:27
Holly
Can interrupt any.
01:34:10:01 – 01:34:34:07
Rod
I know, I know, but, you know, but I’m very interested in senior housing and I am I am going to start raising money first thing. I’ve got a deal coming up right now. You know, I was going to do this like ten years ago and just never pulled the trigger. And and I, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m looking for an alternate asset classes at this point until, you know, we see a reckoning in the, in the, in the, multifamily space.
01:34:34:07 – 01:34:49:04
Rod
And I think it’s kind of like I said, these deals that are being marketed for debt that still don’t pencil out, you know, debt plus fees, they’re being marketed for the debt, plus the fees to close. And they still don’t pencil. So, you know, these lenders are going to have to take a haircut. And they haven’t yet. But I think it’s coming.
01:34:49:04 – 01:34:52:03
Rod
Do you think it’s coming? I think they’re going to start taking a haircuts.
01:34:52:03 – 01:35:07:11
Holly
I think that if the Treasury yields don’t come down. And I think that if, if you need another million dollars every six months to buy the rate cap, right, you can only do that so many times. And that’s the reality of it.
01:35:07:12 – 01:35:15:05
Rod
The, the catch phrase is extend and pretend with these lenders we’re seeing lots of deferrals, lots of loan mods, you know, in these struggling.
01:35:15:10 – 01:35:38:05
Holly
So yeah. So it is lots of fear. Now, you know, I thought maybe it would happen faster. Everybody was talking about how 2024 would be the end of it. And now that’s the end of 2025. Right. We have an administration that’s doing a that understands real estate. Yeah. So that’s a good thing.
01:35:38:05 – 01:35:39:15
Rod
Well, that’s a very good thing.
01:35:39:17 – 01:35:40:25
Holly
But I don’t he’s.
01:35:40:25 – 01:35:43:03
Rod
Talking about getting rid of the head of the Federal.
01:35:43:03 – 01:35:43:18
Holly
Reserve.
01:35:43:23 – 01:35:47:10
Rod
Hopefully. You know, I don’t know if when that’s going to happen. I don’t know I don’t.
01:35:47:10 – 01:35:47:21
Holly
Know our.
01:35:47:21 – 01:35:49:09
Rod
Timeline on that, but our.
01:35:49:11 – 01:36:17:24
Holly
The United States are we’re really at a standstill because I think because, there are so many competing things you have to get over. I remember the internet in 1990 or so when AOL started and I was getting advertisers. Right, right. And I remember sitting in Detroit, the top marketing guy at Ford, just like the top the guy, the guy, the guy.
01:36:17:26 – 01:36:25:07
Holly
And he looked at me and said, Holly, you’re crazy. No one will ever buy a car on the internet.
01:36:25:09 – 01:36:31:21
Rod
So. Well, you know, and and blockbuster said no one will stream. They’ll always come pick up, come pick up movies.
01:36:31:23 – 01:36:32:16
Holly
Right.
01:36:32:19 – 01:36:36:21
Rod
And they had a chance to buy Netflix, you know, that story. And they screwed that up.
01:36:36:21 – 01:36:39:15
Holly
Procter and gamble had a chance to buy diapers. Yeah. You know, whatever.
01:36:39:22 – 01:36:47:09
Rod
And, Kodak, I think, had a chance to get into digital cameras or digital film and, or maybe it was Fuji, I don’t remember, but anyway. Yeah.
01:36:47:09 – 01:36:48:11
Holly
And they fought it.
01:36:48:11 – 01:36:49:17
Rod
Yeah. They fought it. Fought.
01:36:49:17 – 01:36:50:27
Holly
They lost everything.
01:36:50:27 – 01:36:51:18
Rod
Character had a big.
01:36:51:19 – 01:37:02:26
Holly
Lobby against right against it. Right. And so there’s some of that that you know the I call it bunker mentality. So when you’re when people sense a sea change in and.
01:37:02:29 – 01:37:22:06
Rod
Change is scary, it’s very uncomfortable. And and I’ll tell you I, you want to see some change, I’m going to tell you they’re going to be millions of jobs that are going to be gone where people had better, you know, figure out something because they’re going to be replaced by I look, man, you better put your resume out.
01:37:22:06 – 01:37:41:24
Holly
But I know we’re not going to need you anymore to adjust that. So so it’s like, you know, but they said that during the Industrial revolution, right? They said that the internet was going to enable, you know, cut jobs and it’s grown jobs, right? Jobs and that we never even dreamed of.
01:37:41:25 – 01:37:49:17
Rod
I remember when they were given Jeff Bezos shit because he wanted to sell books online. I mean, we look for that look where that went for that went.
01:37:49:18 – 01:38:11:18
Holly
But, you know, I really believe that our our industry is going to change if we can just hang in there. Because, blockchain is going to change a lot of things. Yes. And make it easier to do to do what we do. I think that that people are really starting to understand that this is way more complicated than it needs to be.
01:38:11:20 – 01:38:11:28
Holly
Yeah.
01:38:12:03 – 01:38:15:07
Rod
And our business. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t disagree.
01:38:15:07 – 01:38:16:27
Holly
They’re sitting alone buying the rate.
01:38:16:28 – 01:38:19:06
Rod
Oh that stuff. Yeah that stuff’s ridiculous for.
01:38:19:06 – 01:38:19:18
Holly
Banks.
01:38:19:18 – 01:38:31:17
Rod
Lenders. That’s. Oh that’s that’s the, that’s that’s crazy. You know you know how how complex and how many, how many trees they have to kill, how many trees they have to kill to get stuff signed. And I’m it’s ridiculous.
01:38:31:17 – 01:38:39:19
Holly
Obviously, we got down to the wire and Fannie said, oh, we’re not going to do any more, loans for the rest of the year. No kidding. A week before we were.
01:38:39:22 – 01:38:41:02
Rod
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
01:38:41:05 – 01:38:52:19
Holly
Yeah. Because they’re afraid that, you know, they’re going to be, privatized or whatever, you know, whatever, you know? So I think there’s uncertainty. People are just frozen. Yeah. Or a lot.
01:38:52:22 – 01:39:09:22
Rod
I think you’re right. I think you’re right. And and, you know, I got just kind of, I’m waiting. I’m still very interested in multifamily. Obviously. It’s my wheelhouse. My students. I don’t want to brag for a minute to you because you appreciate this. My students now on 260,000 units that we know of free. Yeah. Thank you.
01:39:09:24 – 01:39:17:24
Rod
I’ve been teaching seven years. I’m very, very proud of that. And so it’s way more than that because a lot of people don’t respond. But we’ve up with that. We know for sure. Well, listen, I know.
01:39:17:24 – 01:39:19:01
Holly
You’re helping a lot of people.
01:39:19:02 – 01:39:19:20
Rod
Oh thank you.
01:39:19:24 – 01:39:26:26
Holly
You know because people just don’t. We have no financial education in our country.
01:39:26:26 – 01:39:27:27
Rod
Don’t get me started on that.
01:39:27:27 – 01:39:37:10
Holly
And we have lots of embedded. I mean, when I was in grad school, the banks provide Wall Street provides the education for the NBA.
01:39:37:12 – 01:39:37:23
Rod
01:39:37:27 – 01:39:41:28
Holly
Yeah. Segment of schools, medical school that the drug companies provide the education.
01:39:42:00 – 01:39:43:11
Rod
That’s that’s that’s very true.
01:39:43:11 – 01:40:01:16
Holly
So I think that people are starting to realize that and starting to realize that you really have to do I mean we don’t have a lot of attention span, but you got to just take things and look at all sides of a situation and critically think about what’s really going on when somebody tells you something.
01:40:01:17 – 01:40:02:10
Rod
Yeah, I.
01:40:02:10 – 01:40:03:24
Holly
Agree, and,
01:40:03:26 – 01:40:08:27
Rod
You know, that was a very general istic statement, but I and were you referring to something specifically in that.
01:40:08:27 – 01:40:16:09
Holly
I was referring to just what the you know, but what you know, the Jim Cramer’s. Yeah. They see the our media.
01:40:16:10 – 01:40:17:08
Rod
Oh, God, oh God.
01:40:17:08 – 01:40:21:19
Holly
Don’t start 30 years in. And I’m just referring to, you know, I.
01:40:21:23 – 01:40:25:16
Rod
You want to go political. Should we go political too? I mean, let’s blow this up. Right.
01:40:25:18 – 01:40:42:01
Holly
Well, I’ve got a couple of friends. I invested with them almost every time. Right. You know. Right. Some of turned out right in the long haul. Right. But the investment wasn’t that fabulous either, because I really didn’t.
01:40:42:04 – 01:41:00:23
Rod
You didn’t dig in. You didn’t really. Yeah. You didn’t. Yeah. You didn’t do all the homework you could have done. Hey, we, you know, life gets in the way and and, you know, I’ve, I’ve invested with people, that I trusted and, and unfortunately, I’ve got, you know, big, big partnership going down right now and dealing with the, the fallout of that.
01:41:00:23 – 01:41:16:06
Rod
And it’s a, it’s a, it’s a mess. But but you know, it happens and I and I’m and I teach this stuff so you know I mean you know don’t feel bad if you’re listening and you’ve had a, you know, partnership fail or, you know, a bad business relationship because, again, I teach people how not to let that happen.
01:41:16:06 – 01:41:29:10
Rod
And I’m in the middle of one myself. So, you know, there you go. Recover from it. Yeah. Know for sure. And I mean, you have partnered with some really top shelf guys that have a lot of respect for and like, they’re friendly. In fact, they’ve been on my podcast as well. Yeah.
01:41:29:10 – 01:41:31:21
Holly
Who will crawl over broken glass?
01:41:31:24 – 01:41:32:08
Rod
That’s right.
01:41:32:14 – 01:41:36:17
Holly
Before we will let anybody lose money, right? I mean, sir.
01:41:36:17 – 01:41:37:20
Rod
Same same here.
01:41:37:22 – 01:41:40:09
Holly
Same here. And yeah, Wall Street’s not going to do that.
01:41:40:09 – 01:41:41:24
Rod
No no no they don’t.
01:41:41:25 – 01:42:02:24
Holly
And they’re spending distributions too. Oh yeah. That’s what I think. You know. And a lot of it’s just almost you know think about your personal personal life. You know, they think we’re talking about a New York City reassessing all the houses and doubling the tax. You know, if they did that, our taxes would double what my husband and I started saving a little more money.
01:42:02:25 – 01:42:04:11
Holly
Yeah. Because what are we going to do?
01:42:04:15 – 01:42:08:01
Rod
Well, New York’s already overtaxed and overregulated. Don’t get me started.
01:42:08:02 – 01:42:28:18
Holly
I don’t get me started on that either. But that’s what you do. So when we’re in a multifamily situation and we know that the rate caps and we know all this is coming maybe a year and a half away, but we need to we need to build up more reserves as fast as we can see that we’re prepared for that because you don’t want to lose money, right?
01:42:28:19 – 01:42:45:18
Rod
Yeah. Same. Yeah. That’s the that’s the name of the game. You know. And when I stepped into this particular, partnership to, to step into asset management to do what I could to rectify it, you know, I, I noticed just how bad some of these management companies are. Oh, they’re so bad.
01:42:45:21 – 01:42:46:28
Holly
And, and so terrible.
01:42:46:28 – 01:43:08:08
Rod
And, you know, I was I was dealing with properties in seven states and, you know, and and what I noticed was it doesn’t matter if you get a very well recommended management company, huge management company. Everything depends on the onsite staff, everything, everything. The whole you could have a terrible management company with a great onsite staff. They’ll do fine.
01:43:08:09 – 01:43:34:01
Rod
You could have a great management company with a bad onsite staff. And that’s what I saw a lot of, because we had to bring in new management and it just terrible. They’re absolutely terrible. Their accounting is terrible, their marketing is terrible. Their their oversight of the onsite staff is terrible. And what I’ve come to realize is that the most successful, in my view, in my experience so far, operators are the ones that are vertically integrated.
01:43:34:01 – 01:43:35:27
Holly
Self-manage. Well, that is what we’re doing.
01:43:35:27 – 01:43:36:21
Rod
Yeah, it’s what you’re doing.
01:43:36:21 – 01:43:39:25
Holly
You’re done. We’ve got three properties right. And good.
01:43:39:25 – 01:43:43:27
Rod
For you. Same here I I’m moving towards that in the markets that I’m is.
01:43:43:28 – 01:43:55:14
Holly
No one is going to care about it. That’s right. When you’re renting an apartment you know you can’t you can’t teach enthusiasm. You can’t teach, caring.
01:43:55:19 – 01:43:56:15
Rod
Right.
01:43:56:17 – 01:44:20:02
Holly
You’re no one is going to care more about your your stuff because I care about investors. You know what? Because I’m invested in all of them to getting me right. Let me tell you. I mean, I’m, I’m I know I look like I’m 30, but I’m really 63 years old, you know, so I don’t have, you know, it’s a curse that I look like I’m 30, but, you know, seriously, it’s it’s,
01:44:20:05 – 01:44:30:05
Holly
It’s I don’t have a lot of time. I, you know, I, I and my investors are like that, and I mean, I, you know, I got into this because my parents, ran out of money.
01:44:30:08 – 01:44:30:26
Rod
Oh. No kidding.
01:44:30:28 – 01:44:33:17
Holly
Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, they had a little.
01:44:33:17 – 01:44:35:02
Rod
But you grew up in New York, too.
01:44:35:03 – 01:44:37:00
Holly
Now. I grew up in Houston.
01:44:37:00 – 01:44:38:01
Rod
Oh, Houston. No kidding.
01:44:38:07 – 01:44:44:08
Holly
And I came to to New York to work for, for the Arbitron, the radio ratings company.
01:44:44:10 – 01:44:44:23
Rod
Oh, no.
01:44:44:23 – 01:44:47:22
Holly
Kidding. I’m from New York, and I got up here, and I just loved it.
01:44:47:23 – 01:44:50:28
Rod
Yeah, well, I don’t look as good as you when I’m 65.
01:44:51:01 – 01:44:53:03
Holly
Now. You’re not I. No way.
01:44:53:05 – 01:45:01:03
Rod
Yeah. But, anyway. So. So management companies. Yeah, I it’s been a nightmare to deal with these companies and.
01:45:01:04 – 01:45:02:01
Holly
It’s our biggest problem.
01:45:02:01 – 01:45:05:10
Rod
It really is. And and so know as you get into this.
01:45:05:16 – 01:45:06:26
Holly
Reason for expenses. Yeah.
01:45:06:27 – 01:45:22:09
Rod
Sorry to interrupt. Oh no question. As you get into this business guys, you’re going to discover that, you know, they need a tremendous amount of oversight. Like, I just visited an asset that we have in, Nashville and and basically after I told the, I told a management company, you need to fire the whole team here. They got to go.
01:45:22:09 – 01:45:41:06
Rod
And so they’re gone. We got a new manager in there. And the same thing happened with an asset in San Antonio. I had to fire the team had to fire both regionals for that matter. Both regionals had to go. You know, by the way, when you work with a management company, they’ll be onsite staff, onsite property manager. They’ll be an assistant, maybe leasing agent, maintenance supervisor, maintenance porter.
01:45:41:08 – 01:46:02:09
Rod
But there’ll be a regional manager that manages those on site managers. And the regional may have 7 or 8 properties that they manage. But, by the way, on that front, if you’re going to hire a third party property management company and you’re listening to me and you’ve got an asset, I’ve got a fantastic book on the questions you should ask and the due diligence you should do called How to Hire a Third Party Property Management Company.
01:46:02:14 – 01:46:09:16
Rod
And it’s at my link tree rods links.com. It’s one of the free books there. And it’s really good.
01:46:09:18 – 01:46:13:09
Holly
Proud of a lot of good things. Thank you for for people.
01:46:13:09 – 01:46:14:03
Rod
Well, I appreciate that.
01:46:14:04 – 01:46:28:08
Holly
I mean, you really do. And, you know, you look at the people you want to work with are those people. Yeah. Right. The more the more. And so I think that you find that in private investments and you don’t.
01:46:28:08 – 01:46:34:01
Rod
Oh, you don’t find that in the stock market or in these regions, things like that. Because there’s secondary gain is, is, is fees.
01:46:34:01 – 01:46:37:05
Holly
And if you didn’t grow up wealthy, right. You don’t know.
01:46:37:05 – 01:46:38:02
Rod
Right?
01:46:38:04 – 01:46:39:07
Holly
You really don’t know.
01:46:39:07 – 01:46:44:27
Rod
No. And you know, financial advisors are going to push you to their book of business. You know.
01:46:44:29 – 01:46:46:09
Holly
You not even their fault.
01:46:46:10 – 01:47:06:08
Rod
No, no. That’s that’s exactly that’s how they work. Right. So that’s exactly right, doctor. Same thing. You know, I’m, I’m very big into natural medicine and and and and you know, supplementation and exercise and all that stuff and, and you know, doctors are trained by the pharmaceutical companies, just like you said. And so and they’re they’re wonderful people, but they’re going to prescribe things.
01:47:06:08 – 01:47:10:20
Rod
They’re going to give you pills rather than tell you to eat better and get off your ass and go work out. Right.
01:47:10:20 – 01:47:20:06
Holly
So our our industry has changed. And back to management companies, right. What worked for them, you know when the getting was good? Five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years ago.
01:47:20:06 – 01:47:21:02
Rod
Right.
01:47:21:04 – 01:47:22:23
Holly
Isn’t isn’t working now.
01:47:22:25 – 01:47:31:11
Rod
And that’s the you know, it’s the emperor’s clothes. You know, the the water’s going out and you see who’s naked in these management companies that don’t know how to manage properly.
01:47:31:16 – 01:47:34:21
Holly
We had people. This was last week. I have to tell this one story.
01:47:34:21 – 01:47:35:07
Rod
Yeah.
01:47:35:10 – 01:47:50:26
Holly
Five tenants wanted to come in and rent apartments, but they didn’t want to move in till June 1st. Right. And we’re like, we’ve got an occupancy problem. Right. And they sent them. No, we can’t do it. Can’t honor the price. I mean, are you out of your mind?
01:47:50:26 – 01:47:51:29
Rod
Oh, good lord.
01:47:52:03 – 01:47:55:06
Holly
Are you really. Oh yeah. You’re right. We’ve got an occupancy problem.
01:47:55:06 – 01:48:01:08
Rod
You can’t make these stories up. And I got tons of these with management companies. And like I said, I’ve. I’ve had to clean house one.
01:48:01:10 – 01:48:03:19
Holly
I talk a whole podcast about that.
01:48:03:19 – 01:48:16:09
Rod
And, and and you know, I go and I visit these assets and I’m like, are you not seeing what I’m seeing here? You know, and, and just just crazy, no attention to detail whatsoever.
01:48:16:09 – 01:48:19:01
Holly
Right. And that’s what makes the that’s everything.
01:48:19:01 – 01:48:29:17
Rod
That’s everything. If the if the asset looks good, it’s clean and it looks good. And and when they, when somebody walks in, they jump out to end with a big smile on their face to help them lease and build rapport.
01:48:29:20 – 01:48:31:06
Holly
You’re great. That’s right.
01:48:31:06 – 01:48:36:01
Rod
That’s it. And and but you know, they hire these slugs. They don’t train them. They don’t motivate them. They don’t.
01:48:36:01 – 01:48:40:19
Holly
Empower shopping. And they’re not. That’s right. What the. That’s right. What they’re even up against.
01:48:40:21 – 01:48:57:09
Rod
Right. You got a secret shop too. That’s another thing. You send people in to secret shop and see how they’re doing. And that that tells you a lot. But, you know, we’re, we’re sounding very negative about the business, right now because because she and I are commiserating, because we’ve been at our butts kicked this last year or two.
01:48:57:16 – 01:49:00:18
Rod
But, you know, we’re obviously still very bullish on the business.
01:49:00:18 – 01:49:08:05
Holly
Here’s the deal, rod. Yeah. And what I love about this business. Yeah. All the things that we’re talking about, first of all, people should be on the lookout for.
01:49:08:05 – 01:49:08:28
Rod
Well sure.
01:49:09:00 – 01:49:17:03
Holly
Number two, because we had no idea, right, that there were as bad as they were. Right. Right. And then this is fixable.
01:49:17:05 – 01:49:36:24
Rod
Well, it is, yes. I told my investors, you know, both those assets I, when visited. Hey, now we know what the problem is. Now we know where there’s an occupancy problem because the place looks like crap. The breezeway is were filthy. I had them all pressure washed immediately. You know, on the other asset, trash everywhere. I’m like, come on, you know, and and and no one would lease here.
01:49:36:24 – 01:49:38:09
Rod
Would that’s any good.
01:49:38:11 – 01:49:38:21
Holly
Right.
01:49:38:27 – 01:49:44:23
Rod
So, so and so, you know, that’s the messages. You got to keep an eye on the ball.
01:49:44:23 – 01:49:46:10
Holly
If you need to go pick up trash.
01:49:46:10 – 01:49:48:20
Rod
That’s it. I was picking up trash. That’s right.
01:49:48:20 – 01:49:52:12
Holly
Done it. Two.
01:49:52:15 – 01:49:56:16
Holly
It’s that’s that’s part of this. And it’s not all.
01:49:56:16 – 01:50:00:26
Rod
But you got to find these staff on site staff that take that issue. They care about it. You got to.
01:50:00:26 – 01:50:01:24
Holly
Show them how to do it.
01:50:01:24 – 01:50:10:27
Rod
Yeah. Show them how to do it. Then you praise them and you validate them, and you make them feel good about what they’re doing. And and and and they’ll, they’ll walk through water for you. I mean, they.
01:50:10:28 – 01:50:31:16
Holly
Want to hire for you. That’s right, I really will. Yeah. And that’s and a lot of, you know, it really comes down to managing people. I have a friend who’s an orthopedic surgeon and he says it’s not it’s not the knee replacement. That’s the problem. It’s it’s all the people management of everybody that’s got to be around to help me replace the knee.
01:50:31:18 – 01:50:39:16
Rod
That’s exactly right. You know, every business is nothing but systems and and people. You get the systems right and you get the right people. Success is inevitable.
01:50:39:16 – 01:51:00:25
Holly
That’s why it’s so important to have business experience. That’s that’s been more valuable to me than anything else, is that I, I’ve been in business before, and that’s one of my requirements to, to invest with people that have been successful in business and why I, you know, I have a, you know, I have a daughter that’s in college and I want her to go work for a big company.
01:51:00:27 – 01:51:05:07
Holly
You know, I really do, because I think it’s really important in how they all work. Yeah.
01:51:05:08 – 01:51:23:04
Rod
It’s great. Framework for being your own entrepreneur. If you if you work for a successful company that knows what they’re doing. I was listening to a fantastic interview, on, Tim Ferriss, you know, I, I listen to two, I listen to two podcasts, I listen to Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan. So I get both sides of the aisle.
01:51:23:04 – 01:51:27:09
Rod
Okay, I’m definitely on one side, but you’re on the Tim Ferriss side. I.
01:51:27:09 – 01:51:28:10
Holly
Suspect we’re on the same.
01:51:28:10 – 01:51:53:04
Rod
Side. I’m certainly. We are pretty much any business person is, but but, you know, on the, on the, on this Tim Ferriss show, he’s interviewing, the guy that started, Expedia and Zillow and Glass Door, which is the employee rating service. Yeah. I mean, just a brilliant interview about, you know, business strategy and people hiring and and, yeah.
01:51:53:04 – 01:52:13:22
Rod
By the way, guys, I, I would absolutely recommend that interview. I think it’s episode 806 because I sent it to like three people. But, anyway, yeah, I mean, and and the other thing is, is in this or any business is that continual learning process that continually growth process. Right. And, you know, not just I mean, yes, staying on top of what’s happening.
01:52:13:22 – 01:52:20:02
Rod
Like you, I’m sure you get every possible research paper that comes out like I do. You know, CRC daily and.
01:52:20:05 – 01:52:20:20
Holly
Try to.
01:52:20:21 – 01:52:26:12
Rod
Broker specific things and but it’s it’s and you were you were at one of my events.
01:52:26:12 – 01:52:26:24
Holly
I do.
01:52:26:29 – 01:52:28:16
Rod
Yeah. And you’re continuing your.
01:52:28:18 – 01:52:30:03
Holly
Sort of your beginner.
01:52:30:08 – 01:52:31:14
Rod
Right. Right, right.
01:52:31:15 – 01:52:46:08
Holly
And I love the workbook. Thank you. All of that stuff. Thank you. And you never. And I met a couple of really great people. Sure, sure. And so you never know. I’ve never gone anywhere or listened to a read something you.
01:52:46:08 – 01:52:58:22
Rod
Didn’t pick something up and we met at the other. You mean that was the event that I did my three day, but also we met at, you know, Dan’s event, Dan’s conference, and where I was on stage doing while dog and pony thing. And you were there, so.
01:52:58:22 – 01:53:04:13
Holly
You said, yeah, you sit, you’re in the ice. You said, we gotta we gotta exchange numbers.
01:53:04:13 – 01:53:21:28
Rod
That’s right, that’s right. When I was done speaking, I remember we met. Yeah. So I mean, you you subscribe to that continual education without a doubt piece as well. Yeah. So let me ask you this talk about some, some, seminars that you’ve had. I don’t call them failures. I call them seminars. And I’ve had big ones. You know, I lost $50 million in 2008.
01:53:21:28 – 01:53:40:24
Rod
I don’t you know, I know. Yeah. Yeah. So so let’s talk about talk. I mean, we all I mean, you’re in the business. I’m in the business. We’ve got a menu of options with that question. Right, right. But talk about something that might add some value for you if it comes to mind. You know, where you, you know, had a had a seminar and, you know, and, and a learning experience.
01:53:40:27 – 01:53:45:22
Holly
Well, when you say seminar, you want to hear how I learn in the real world.
01:53:45:22 – 01:53:49:02
Rod
Well, I’m talking about a setback, really. But you that you that you.
01:53:49:02 – 01:53:57:16
Holly
Recall one setback we sort of already touched on it, but one setback was, property we had in Houston. And Harvey flooded.
01:53:57:18 – 01:53:58:06
Rod
Oh, God.
01:53:58:09 – 01:54:09:09
Holly
Places that no one had ever nothing had ever flooded. Right. And about half of this 500 unit, you know, complex was, was uninhabitable.
01:54:09:09 – 01:54:10:02
Rod
Oh my God.
01:54:10:03 – 01:54:33:08
Holly
You know what we did? We worked very hard and helped the residents get in other places or whatever. And then when the insurance finally right, we suspended distributions. But when the insurance finally came through, we had a brand new asset and there was a housing shortage in Houston. Perfect. So a lot of this, you know, you a lot of this, you cannot give up.
01:54:33:08 – 01:54:46:12
Holly
There is always a way. Yeah. And and talk to people I tell people don’t take advice with anybody for you know that doesn’t have more experience than you find people who want to want what they have and you do what they do.
01:54:46:16 – 01:54:59:08
Rod
Get around people that know more than you. That’s how you learn. That’s, you know, I had formed a mastermind years ago that was called the Multifamily Boardroom. I, I, I got tight, it was like herding cats after a while, but there’s probably 40 or 50 billion in assets and building.
01:54:59:08 – 01:55:00:03
Holly
On as well.
01:55:00:03 – 01:55:15:06
Rod
Yeah. And they’re fantastic. And you, you pick up these little nuggets and you know, if you’re playing tennis, do you want to play somebody better than you are? Worse than you? I mean, hello, it’s the same thing in any, any business. So guys, you’re listening. Get around people that think what you think is hard is easy. Go to the meet up groups.
01:55:15:06 – 01:55:23:27
Rod
Go to the real estate investor clubs. Go to these events like my event and other events that people have. And and and it just accelerates your learning process.
01:55:23:27 – 01:55:33:23
Holly
You know, if people ask me how what’s the best way to get into this business? Multifamily. And they’re young, maybe they don’t have a lot of experience. And I tell them to go get a job at a management company.
01:55:33:25 – 01:55:34:09
Rod
Sure.
01:55:34:13 – 01:55:46:26
Holly
To go manage one of these things. Sure. And you’ll learn more doing that on what’s involved, because a lot of it is hard. Sure. You know, a lot of it is just hard. It’s you think it’s going to be.
01:55:46:26 – 01:55:50:16
Rod
Like, it’s not rocket science, but it’s work. You got to do the work. Yeah, it’s.
01:55:50:16 – 01:55:55:07
Holly
A lot of work. And that’s what makes the difference between something that’s successful and something that is.
01:55:55:07 – 01:56:11:09
Rod
Sure, I can tell you, my students, you know, like I said, they don’t 260,000 units, and, and, and, the ones that that are successful aren’t the smartest. They’re not the ones with the most money. They’re not the ones that live in the big cities. They’re the ones that just go out there and kick butt and make it happen.
01:56:11:11 – 01:56:25:03
Holly
So I’ve invested in a couple of deals that have not gone well. And I will tell you that the operator well, not immediately, but on the next deal or the deal, if they, you know, they have made it. Right.
01:56:25:04 – 01:56:25:26
Rod
Yeah.
01:56:25:28 – 01:56:38:18
Holly
And paid back investors. I mean, I have one, one I know of operators that have said, okay, I’m going to give you your preferred return. It might take two years, but I’m going to pay you every month. Nice. You know, and and.
01:56:38:18 – 01:56:39:17
Rod
That’s that’s integrity.
01:56:39:17 – 01:57:03:00
Holly
Yeah. And you can’t say that to investors when they invest, you know, and all that. But I will say that that you know, it’s not always it’s not sometimes it’s just not possible. You know, if you invest in something that’s it’s I mean, it could go bad. Nothing’s ever guarantee. Oh sure, sure. But you really have to, work with people that have that I believe this this mindset.
01:57:03:02 – 01:57:04:24
Rod
Yeah. No question.
01:57:04:26 – 01:57:06:29
Holly
And if you’re in it for the money, forget it. Yeah.
01:57:06:29 – 01:57:15:15
Rod
No, you’ve got to love it. Yeah. If you don’t love what you do in life, life life’s miserable. I mean, but when you do love what you do, work is play and you never work another day in your life.
01:57:15:22 – 01:57:17:06
Holly
I’ve worked a little bit, but. Yeah.
01:57:17:06 – 01:57:28:12
Rod
Yeah, but but yes. Okay. Fair enough, fair enough. But that’s how when you love it, you push through the obstacles. You know you have passion for it. People feel your passion and they want to work with you.
01:57:28:12 – 01:57:43:26
Holly
You know, I moved down here to Sarasota, right? Right. And, and I have some investors that live here, and we, we have suspended distributions and some of them aren’t going as well as they go. Right? And I’m like, neighbor. Yeah.
01:57:43:28 – 01:57:44:03
Rod
Right.
01:57:44:05 – 01:57:54:23
Holly
Right, right. And and you know, are you kidding me? I’m like, you know, I feel good about what I’m doing, right? Because I’m telling you where it’s going to be, okay.
01:57:54:23 – 01:57:59:14
Rod
It’s going to be okay. You’ve got your preferred return. You’re going to get that at a minimum. Really?
01:57:59:16 – 01:58:03:24
Holly
Are you going to get rich and be able to sail off to the. No, maybe.
01:58:03:24 – 01:58:04:03
Rod
Not.
01:58:04:08 – 01:58:11:24
Holly
Right, but you’re not going to lose money, right? You know, so if you do, we’re going to figure out how to sell pencils on the street.
01:58:11:27 – 01:58:18:20
Rod
We’ll figure it out. Yeah, we’ll figure it out. You know. So, you wrote a book.
01:58:18:22 – 01:58:19:03
Holly
I did.
01:58:19:08 – 01:58:20:05
Rod
Yeah. Talk about that.
01:58:20:11 – 01:58:24:21
Holly
Oh, it’s basically about the ten Myths of Money. One of the.
01:58:24:21 – 01:58:26:03
Rod
Chapters. Is it on Amazon or anything?
01:58:26:03 – 01:58:27:25
Holly
Or just hidden investing?
01:58:27:25 – 01:58:28:04
Rod
Hidden.
01:58:28:04 – 01:58:46:19
Holly
Invest it in investing with the wealthiest. Know that we don’t. It’s about growing up wealthy. And things that I learned when I was so shocked. I mean, I was so shocked at people that were so much smarter than me and so many had their net worth. You know, my net worth was a square root right? Their net worth.
01:58:46:19 – 01:58:49:02
Holly
Right? And they didn’t know what I was talking about.
01:58:49:02 – 01:58:50:04
Rod
Yeah. In that fascinating.
01:58:50:04 – 01:59:05:26
Holly
It is just amazing. And they thought it was a scam. And and you know I one of my chapters is trust the experts. You know that’s one of the thing. You know the air is safe at ground zero, right? It’s just like the experts don’t know often any more than you know.
01:59:05:27 – 01:59:25:07
Rod
Oh, no, that’s absolutely correct. That’s absolutely correct. And you should question everything. Everything. Yeah, yeah. So, Holly, what are some words? You know, I have a lot of listeners that want to do what we do. Okay, I teach them I love that and and obviously get your butt to my boot camp. Hello. But but we’ll miss that.
01:59:25:09 – 01:59:26:00
Holly
Seriously.
01:59:26:00 – 01:59:35:14
Rod
Thank you. So what words of wisdom would you share with an aspiring real estate investor? What what you know? What might you share with them?
01:59:35:17 – 02:00:06:02
Holly
What I love about real estate investing is that we talked about something is fixable right. Well it’s fixable and we can fix this and not depend 100% on the whims of the market and what the banks are doing or what the president is doing or who’s in office here and there and, and, and so the more control you have over the situation.
02:00:06:02 – 02:00:14:09
Holly
And so it’s very important to be able to raise, to, to, to have enough reserves more than you need. Right, right.
02:00:14:09 – 02:00:22:26
Rod
Oh, yeah. We’ve we’re over reserved on the one we bought in 23. I mean, we just talked about this day, we’ve got 2 million in the bank on a 200 unit asset. So I mean that’s some reserves. Right?
02:00:22:26 – 02:00:44:06
Holly
It’s very important to if you buy something that the occupancy is 90%, it needs to it needs to still cash flow. It doesn’t need to make a lot of anybody needs to be cash flow positive at like 80%, 75%. That’s right. Right. And it needs to also you need to have a loan that’s at least twice as long as as the business plan basically.
02:00:44:06 – 02:00:58:06
Holly
Yeah. Right now that’s not to say that we can’t run out of, you know, in a market list. People that have been in this for 50 years have told, I mean, really old people have said there’s never been a market like this, right?
02:00:58:12 – 02:00:59:12
Rod
Oh, it’s crazy right now.
02:00:59:12 – 02:01:03:28
Holly
So if you can navigate through this and deals are to be had.
02:01:03:29 – 02:01:08:18
Rod
Oh they’re coming, they’re coming. I tell people if there’s ever a time to get in here, it’s right now they.
02:01:08:18 – 02:01:09:00
Holly
Really are.
02:01:09:00 – 02:01:10:19
Rod
Coming. Yeah for sure.
02:01:10:20 – 02:01:11:13
Holly
Oh my daughter that.
02:01:11:14 – 02:01:35:09
Rod
Yeah. Good, good. So Holly, I love to ask this question. Because I usually I get the same answer, but I’m curious if I get it from you. So if you went back and told 21 year old self like your daughter, for example, something with knowing what you know now, what might you do differently?
02:01:35:11 – 02:01:44:22
Holly
Add value wherever you can. That’s the most important thing when you are working. That’s great. It’s not about your career, it’s about your boss.
02:01:44:22 – 02:01:48:21
Rod
But how about how about real estate in general, though? But, but yes, I agree completely with that.
02:01:48:21 – 02:01:50:15
Holly
For value to your partners.
02:01:50:15 – 02:02:04:00
Rod
I agree with that answer absolutely 100%. In fact, that’s how I built this podcast. I my focus is just adding value. If you listen to the first few episodes, I say, you know, my focus is just to add value. I’m never going to sell you anything now I’m a liar because I sell everything.
02:02:04:00 – 02:02:14:19
Holly
I got this book because I didn’t understand, because so many people didn’t know about it. Right. And I watched my parents, right, have to withdraw from the stock market when it was down and they got hosed.
02:02:14:19 – 02:02:15:06
Rod
Right?
02:02:15:06 – 02:02:17:27
Holly
Yeah, yeah. And that’s the whole reason I got into this.
02:02:17:27 – 02:02:28:21
Rod
So there’s a lot of that’s happening to a lot of people right now, actually very but you know, if someone asks you how to get into this business, besides your book, is there another book that you give to more than another?
02:02:28:26 – 02:02:50:02
Holly
I would say go to as many of conferences like yours, right? That you can write to read as many books as you can. Right? But really, you need to find a group of like minded people that are smarter than you and have done this. Yeah. And and then try to add value to them. Yeah.
02:02:50:02 – 02:03:03:07
Rod
Great answer. That’s that’s where my warriors, my coaching students are so successful because they do these deals together. And, and and I tell the new ones I say figure out how you can add value. You’re going to bring deals, you’re going to bring money. You know, you’re going to underwrite. What are you going to do to help them be boots on the ground?
02:03:03:07 – 02:03:04:01
Rod
What are you going to do?
02:03:04:02 – 02:03:06:26
Holly
This is a team sport you can’t do you can’t do one of these fires.
02:03:06:27 – 02:03:22:25
Rod
They’ve heard they’ve heard me say that a thousand times. This is a team sport, guys. And there’s so many different hats you can wear. So you just got to. And you play to your strengths. And when you play to your strengths again you’re going to enjoy it. You’re going to be able to get over the hurdles and the speed bumps and and and you’ll be passionate.
02:03:22:25 – 02:03:28:14
Rod
Like I said, passion is so important. Let me ask you this. Did you have any fear when you first got started?
02:03:28:14 – 02:03:28:25
Holly
Fear all the.
02:03:28:25 – 02:03:30:18
Rod
Time. Okay. So how do you get over the.
02:03:30:21 – 02:03:33:26
Holly
What do tonight? I have fear,
02:03:33:28 – 02:03:35:08
Rod
What what do you do to get over the.
02:03:35:09 – 02:03:36:20
Holly
Oh, you have to have faith.
02:03:36:27 – 02:03:38:11
Rod
I love that that’s a better f word.
02:03:38:12 – 02:04:10:02
Holly
That it’s fear with faith. Right? I mean, so I yeah, I’m, I’m I’m concerned. Let’s call it that. But I also look around at people that have been through whatever it is, what I’m going through. Right. And they’ve gotten through it. Little thing I mean little things. Just have to remember when you know there’s a lot of things you didn’t know how to do and, and don’t be afraid to ask what’s right.
02:04:10:05 – 02:04:17:27
Rod
And how do you do. Well one bite at a time. You know, you’re going to get into this or any business. You just got to get started and, and yeah.
02:04:17:29 – 02:04:26:20
Holly
And getting started, you know, really can be, you know, like, finding what the, where the pain point is and going and helping somebody.
02:04:26:20 – 02:04:39:26
Rod
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, so yeah, that’s the thing. And, and that’s what makes this business so beautiful is that there’s so many different places you can put a hat on and and get started. What’s your definition of success?
02:04:39:28 – 02:04:42:14
Holly
I think being able to sleep at night most of the time.
02:04:42:16 – 02:04:43:17
Rod
Yeah okay.
02:04:43:18 – 02:04:51:27
Holly
You know the answer. And it’s never been I’ve never had probably not ambitious enough maybe. But ambitious is a different you know.
02:04:52:01 – 02:04:58:07
Rod
That’s really funny. That’s really comical. That’s comical coming from you. Not ambitious enough. That’s really funny. But.
02:04:58:09 – 02:05:12:07
Holly
Yeah. And, and I, I’ve always I don’t think I yeah, I think that, that, that I want to be able to go to as far as money, financially I want to be able to go order whatever I want to order. And if I really want to do something like, really.
02:05:12:10 – 02:05:13:14
Rod
You’re already at that place.
02:05:13:21 – 02:05:21:23
Holly
That’s right. So that’s why I’m okay. You know, you got to be okay. And you know what? You’re right where you’re supposed to be most of the time.
02:05:22:00 – 02:05:24:24
Rod
You know, 99% of what we worry about never comes to food.
02:05:24:25 – 02:05:25:13
Holly
That’s exactly.
02:05:25:13 – 02:05:29:28
Rod
Right. Yeah. There’s a book called Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff, and it’s all small stuff.
02:05:29:29 – 02:05:42:02
Holly
Look at the Federal Reserve. They need to drop interest rates. I’m sorry. Hello. When this is going to air. But they need to drop into low. And they didn’t drop interest rates because they are afraid.
02:05:42:07 – 02:05:42:21
Rod
02:05:42:26 – 02:05:46:20
Holly
Of inflation the tariffs are going to cause inflation. Are you kidding me please.
02:05:46:20 – 02:05:47:02
Rod
The tariff.
02:05:47:06 – 02:05:48:03
Holly
Rate. They haven’t.
02:05:48:03 – 02:05:49:26
Rod
How do you hold on here. Okay. Okay.
02:05:49:26 – 02:05:50:02
Holly
Yeah.
02:05:50:08 – 02:05:51:05
Rod
You said the word.
02:05:51:11 – 02:05:52:02
Holly
You said the word.
02:05:52:08 – 02:05:56:21
Rod
You said the word. So now we got to do it for just a minute. So what are your thoughts on the tariffs.
02:05:56:23 – 02:05:59:02
Holly
I don’t know listen I’m not an economist.
02:05:59:02 – 02:06:00:17
Rod
Okay. But you have it.
02:06:00:17 – 02:06:05:15
Holly
You have you know that American man America. You we need to start supporting our
02:06:05:19 – 02:06:17:21
Rod
Hello and hello. And we’ve been screwed forever by countries like China. Okay. And and and even Canada. I hate to say it, but we have. We’ve been screwed forever. And, you know, it’s time to. It’s time to end.
02:06:17:21 – 02:06:21:26
Holly
What are we. Why are we helping countries that are doing better than we are?
02:06:21:26 – 02:06:27:13
Rod
Almost. And don’t get me started. And all the money that went to Ukraine, that came back to our military industrial complex.
02:06:27:13 – 02:06:36:15
Holly
But, you know, I just came from New York, right? Yeah. I’m sorry, but nobody wants to live in the subway or under a bridge. Thank you. We’re not helping these people.
02:06:36:15 – 02:06:52:17
Rod
No, no, but, you know, I heard about, you know, I was listening to Joe Rogan on this because he interviews people that that are very ingrained in that whole thing and the people that that get all these billions of federal dollars to help homelessness. They don’t want to fix it because they lose their jobs. That’s exactly that’s what’s happening.
02:06:52:19 – 02:06:53:20
Rod
It’s ridiculous.
02:06:53:21 – 02:07:09:01
Holly
It’s goes back to to the bunker mentality. Yeah, exactly. Back to having faith that if you’re successful at eradicating homelessness, how low right you can go. And I was successful. Look what I did. Are you kidding me? You’re going to be famous.
02:07:09:01 – 02:07:09:17
Rod
That’s right.
02:07:09:17 – 02:07:11:17
Holly
No. Everybody else is going to want to hire you to do it.
02:07:11:17 – 02:07:28:01
Rod
I but that that’s the issue though, because, you know, they’re entrenched and they don’t want to give up and give up their big paychecks. Right. Well, listen, this has been a hoot. I’m so grateful that you’re here in this town now, and I got you close by, and we’ll have to. We’ll have to grab a.
02:07:28:04 – 02:07:36:23
Holly
Rifle, too. And I’m grateful to all of the people in this business, you know, that have that have helped me. And I learn from all the time. Yeah.
02:07:36:26 – 02:07:39:18
Rod
Same here, same here. Well, it’s great to see you. Thanks for coming.
02:07:39:18 – 02:07:40:12
Holly
Great to see you too.
