The Biggest Mistakes In Sales

Full Transcript Below

Intro
Hi. My name is Rod Khleif, and I’m the host of “The Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing” podcast. And every week, I interview Multifamily Rock Stars and we talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the “Like” and “Subscribe” buttons to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it.

Rod
Welcome to another edition of How to Build a Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I am Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re going to get tremendous value from the dynamic individual I’m interviewing today. His name is Rob Jolles, and Rob is a professional speaker and sales trainer. He’s written books that have been translated into a dozen languages. You know, his books have been featured all over the place, and he’s got, I think, five-time best-selling books. Five-time bestselling. The book I asked him to maybe chat about today is “How to Change Minds: The Art of Influence Without Manipulation”. He’s also got a podcast called “Pocket Sized Pep Talks”, which is right along the lines of what I do on this show. They own your power clips, so he and I are going to have a lot to talk about. Welcome to the show, brother.

Rob Jolles
Hey, man, it’s great to be here. Thanks.

Rod
Thank you. Yeah. So why sales? I mean, I know that you started out working– I think I read in your bio you sold for New York Life and Xerox. Not why sales. Why did you transfer into training sales?

Rob Jolles
Yeah. You know, because there’s a performance element to it, and I was a frustrated actor. Love selling. It came naturally to me. I was raised by a salesman. That’s what we did. And, you know, when I ran track, I sold more toothbrushes than anyone else. When I was in Boy Scouts, I sold more first aid kits than anyone else. Yeah, I mean, that’s a standard story with most salespeople, but I like to perform. And I just thought after selling for a while and getting some taste of training, well, this–if I can take it to a high enough stage, it’s got a real great performance element to it. So that’s kind of what moved me into it.

Rod
So acting, basically. Okay. Got it.

Rob Jolles
Yeah.

Rod
Well, listen, by the way, guys, if you’re sitting here wondering, why do I need to sit and listen to someone teach about sales? Your whole life is about influence. You’re influencing your kids, your spouse, and your significant other. You know, certainly, in this business, you’re significant– influencing partners. If you’re coming to my boot camp, you know you’re going to be influencing people there to connect with and build a team with. You’re influencing brokers. You’re influencing potential investors. And I call it influence instead of sales, but it’s the same thing. You know, you’re basically selling them on yourself. And so this is a really important topic in our business, guys. So you definitely don’t want to miss this episode. So, you know, I know you work with a lot of agents and brokers as well as another sideline, you know, real estate agents and brokers, but, you know, just in sales in general, what are some of the mistakes that you encounter a lot? You know and when people are trying to influence and sell?

Rob Jolles
Right. Well, the first one you already got out, which is for some weird reason, people don’t even like the word selling.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
And so, yeah, you and I, we can talk you know to your classic salesperson, but I like the way you just set it up with what about a parent? What about a manager? What about anybody who wants to take their idea, put it in somebody else’s brain and make them feel like they thought of it? What about those people? So that’s why I like the term you know, how to change minds and deal with that thing that’s in the way, which is influenced without manipulation. So, you know, following your question, the biggest mistakes people make you know, summer classic, you know, not asking questions and listening, which I got to tell you, I don’t have a boot camp like you, but I do two-day workshops. If somebody was in your boot camp or my boot camp or whoever’s and walked out no matter how many days and said, you know, Rod, I don’t know, I learned a lot, but I am committed for the rest of my life to asking questions and listening. And at strategic times, I’m going to be really aware when I keep my questions open. On the one hand, you and I will go, boy, that’s how the guy got out of it? And on the other hand, I look at you, wink, and say, if that person is committed for the rest of their life to ask questions and listen and keep them open, they just went to the best school you know, boot camp they’re ever going to go to. So sometimes it’s basic. Let me jump on one other that isn’t quite as basic.

Rod
Well, hold on before you move on.

Rob Jolles
Go ahead.

Rod
I’ll tell you, that’s one I struggle with.

Rob Jolles
Yeah.

Rod
In fact, the only time I ever get less than a five-star review on my podcast is not listening enough and interrupting because I get excited. That’s the only hate I get is the fact that I interrupt because I get excited and want to interject something. But I will tell you, you’re right. I mean, that quality, you know, engaged to listening. In fact, you know, guys, if you’re coming to my boot camp or you’re coming to go on any boot camp, networking is a big piece of this. And if you become super curious about the people you are meeting, you’ll be a networking superstar if you have incredible curiosity about them. So you’re not trying to tell them who you are, you’re listening to try to discover who they are. And that’s active listening. Anyway, please continue with mistakes, brother.

Rob Jolles
Yeah, and I would tack up on the wall somewhere. Remember, the more that other person talks, the more they like you. And so, where Rod and I are at right now is it’s almost a yarn or people like that’s all Jolles has got right now? He’s going to tell us to ask questions and listen? I hear that all the time. Well, so do we as sales trainers.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
And nobody does it, so don’t fall asleep on the basics. So then I said, let me get to a less basic. You know, I give you 15 answers to your question, but I’m going to cherry-pick one.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
I really think that a more advanced move is not just having somebody give you the blessing of telling you where their concern is, but you staying put. Don’t fix it. Don’t tell them about it. Ask more questions about it. Go deeper. And that’s almost an improv in a way. You can’t write these questions out beforehand. You’re going to have to think on your feet. You’re going to have to trust your instincts. But if you pause and feel it and feed more questions to the problem that brought you to this table, that brought that other investor in, if you feed more questions, you’re going to go deeper, you’re going to create urgency, and you’re going to do the best thing you could as a salesperson.

Rod
Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. You know, it’s Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. You know, if you have a deep interest in what they’re saying and you’re asking questions and you’re, again, actively listening, and then I love the fact and then go deeper and tell me more, you know.

Rob Jolles
Right.

Rod
And, you know, then they love the conversation because they’re the ones doing all the talking. No, that’s good stuff.

Rob Jolles
Yeah.

Rod
So, you know, let’s talk about, let’s say, you know, one of the big hurdles for investors moving forward here, I’m sorry, operators that those are the people listening, that are going to do their own deals, is going to be bringing investors in. Because, you know, with this recession, there’s going to be a lot of fear and, of course, it’s the best time to freaking invest in real estate. But investors are going to hide their heads in the sand. So when someone meets with an investor, what’s a way to open a conversation, what’s an opening. Let’s start there, and we’ll talk about closing as well.

Rob Jolles
You bet.

Rod
And in the middle, we’ll have objections. So love to talk about all three [inaudible]

Rob Jolles
Perfect. Hit me from every angle. Okay. So opening, yeah. We got about 30 seconds to get it out.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
There is no magic pill, but the closest thing I ever heard, Rod, was clearly, I’m going to let you know who I am. Clearly, I’m going to try and give you a sense, you know, of what I want to do in the conversation. But I think the diamond in the rough, and it’s called a bunch of different things. Sometimes it’s called an IBS, an initial benefit statement. Sometimes it’s called a rationale. Sometimes it’s just nicknamed with WIFM. But what’s in it for me? Listen, Gordon Gekko was right, okay? When he said greed is good, he was right. I’m a businessman, too. When I get calls from people, I’ll give you a few seconds. But what I’m waiting for, just almost chanting in my mind is what would be in it for me to have this conversation or to come to this event or whatever it is? Don’t wait for me to ask. Think about if somebody stopped you and asked it, how would you answer it? And then insert it in your opening. So greet me and get at that with them as quickly as you can. Then the other pieces, Joe, I’d love to know what we’ll do and how long it’s going to take, but you appealed in my sense. Agreed. You’re going to be putting together a good opening.

Rod
Got it. No, that’s good. That’s good. So, you know, we’re talking basic sales here, guys. And some of this stuff may not apply in every situation, but this is really good stuff to know, to remember on the opening, to, you know, get right into what’s in it for them. Okay? And then, now, let’s say that you’re trying to close– we’ll start with closing first, and then we’ll get into objections. Let’s say you’re trying to get a commitment, okay? They call it a closing, call to close, you know, subjective close and assumed close. There are all these different ways you can close the deal, but let’s just say you’re asking them to invest the money. What’s a way to lead into that?

Rob Jolles
Okay. I promise you, you’ll find– I’ll hit you with your exact answer to your question.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
But please understand that when I tell you it’s the easiest part of the sale. And I think a lot of people have heard that. What my New York Life buddies forgot to remind me was you got to do some other things along the way. That’s what makes it easy.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
So let’s assume that we’re smart on trial closing, meaning I’ve got a commitment that you’re ready to make a change. I’ve got a commitment that you know exactly what that change looks like. Maybe I even have a commitment from you that says if I can prove to you I can do that better than anybody else, you give me a shot at working with you. So that’s why we don’t have to load up for this big fast pitch.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
We got to take care of things and earn the right to get there. But when we do Rod, I’ve actually always been a fan of what’s called a summary close. I don’t use the word to summarize or anything nonsense like that, but I like a trial close in my close.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
So when I say to somebody, hey, Rod, once you agree with what we’ve talked about, you’re not only going to get that investment opportunity, but you’re going to be able to network, all of which you said was important to me. And I’ll pause. You can hear that, in a sense, I’m trialing it right now. Because if you say yes to that, I’m going to ask you for your business. And if you say no to that, well, I’m not the greatest of moods but will spiral off an objection handling. But this is important. You ask somebody for their business and get the answer no, you just lost about 26% of your chances there. In other words, your chances are reduced by about 26%.

Rod
Interesting.

Rob Jolles
So I don’t want to extend my hand, Rod, and say, well, hey, let’s do business and get jumped. I want to make sure that wouldn’t you agree? We’re getting everything you’re looking for? Yeah, Rob, I am. Now, I’ll hit you with a direct, hey, I’d love to work with you or whatever, but if you remember anything else from closing, if you just put a nice closed-end trial right in the front, you’ll take the guesswork out because like I said, you want to hit me with an objection, I’m fine with that. Don’t hit me when I got my hand out and I’m ready to buy. Yeah.

Rod
Love it. So do me a favor and just recap a trial close.

Rob Jolles
Okay.

Rod
Wouldn’t you agree– something or something.

Rob Jolles
So if we quit real fast, I break down the way people make decisions as having really three decision points.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
The first one, which takes people a long time is I’m not happy with what I’m doing, but I don’t know if I want to do anything about it. So I’m on the outside after asking questions, maybe going deeper into those problems, Rod, saying, what do you think? Do you think it’s worthwhile looking at some solutions? If somebody says no to me, why would I push forward and waste a lot of time? So, the first one is that fix don’t fix. Are you whining, or do you think it’s worthwhile considering the investment opportunities with me? We haven’t even talked about which ones. That’s one. Number two is okay, yeah, I want to make a change. Maybe that client doesn’t exactly know what the change looks like. So now what we do is we sit there and we– what do you need? Okay, how about this? How much maybe we measure. Haven’t even given you my product yet. Now, I want to make sure that’s what it’s going to take to make you happy. That’s the second trial close. We call it close on criteria. And the third one, which is old school, but, boy, I just can’t get rid of it quite yet. I don’t ask it all the time. I know it will initiate contact, but a lot of times I still will ask hey, I’m going to ask you a question. Maybe you’ve heard it a few times, maybe you’ve asked a few of your clients. But if I can prove to you I can do it better than anybody else, is there any reason why I wouldn’t have a realistic shot at working with you? That’s that pre-commit. People think it’s kind of an old school. But you know what? It will flush out the objections. And I’ll leave it with this. How many times has anybody listening to this podcast put a lot of time, effort, and perhaps money into a sale?

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
And, now, not only did you not get you were never going to get. When you pre-commit, you’ll find out if there’s a brother-in-law in the business, you’ll find out that other piece. So I like all three if that helps.

Rod
Okay. No, that’s very helpful. Yeah. And guys, you may not hit it this hard. In fact, you probably won’t hit it this hard, but it’s good to have this stuff in your tool belt. You know, if you’re really you know, bumping up against a hard stop, you’ve got money hard. You need to get some commitments. You need to get some money in. You need to get them to get off the fence. You know, some of this stuff will be very helpful. So let’s talk about objections.

Rob Jolles
Okay.

Rod
You know, so maybe you can give us an example of one that might pop up in this scenario and how you might handle it.

Rob Jolles
Right. Well, you know, the funny thing is and I work with NASA, I work with Toyota, I work with Disney. I mean, tangible and intangible. I’ve been at this 40 years, Rod, and yet there is one objection that sort of just wanders into everybody’s arena, and that is fear of change. Okay. People don’t actually say it, but, you know, I don’t like perhaps, you know, the investments that I have. I’ve been whining about it for a couple of years. Okay, here, let me show you. Here’s what we could do. Yeah, let me think about it. So it really comes down to frequently a fear of change. So, that’s one–and the thing is, I like to be proactive rather than reactive. We’ll get to reactive in a second.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
Once again, Rod and I went– how do we start? We started with trust. We’re going to let that customer talk, and keep those questions open. We then went to problem-solving. Not only what the issue is, but going deeper than any human being has ever done with this person sitting across from you. Okay? And that’s what a problem solver and the consultant does. Now, if I get an objection, it’ll be a legitimate objection. Hopefully not fear of change. The most important thing I can do, whatever objection, I don’t have money, whatever it is, clarify. You know, it may be a misunderstanding, it might be a drawback. Okay. We can learn some great answers. The best move you can make is to clarify. This way you won’t appear defensive. This buys you time to think. This makes sure you don’t bring up an objection that wasn’t even asked. All of us have done that. So the first thing I want to do is settle back and make sure I understand. Then I’ll handle it as either a misunderstanding or a drawback and begin to work from there. But I think clarifying on the front end and confirming on the back end is what people need to remember from this podcast, that center section that most of your listeners have been working with for a while, they know how to handle that. Clarify up front, and confirm on the end, you’ll do much better with the response you know and him know.

Rod
So let’s talk about a confirmation example of an objection and just pick one from– it doesn’t matter from what vertical– someone is selling it.

Rob Jolles
Yes. Okay. I sold Copiers for Xerox.

Rod
Okay, here you go.

Rob Jolles
It might be just somebody saying I want something that’s a little bit more user-friendly. Okay?

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
And so we would clarify by user-friendly, you know, what are you comparing it to? And again, allowing them to express but you asked for a confirmation. When I tell them, you know, a lot of people feel the same way you do. And I felt that way too. I’m [inaudible].

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
But what we found is blah, blah, blah.

Rod
Right.

Rob Jolles
What I want to do, Rod is just finished rather than look at somebody, nod their head, say, does that answer your question about the ease of use on this product so we can put it to bed? If they say no, we should stay where we are. Usually, they’ll say yes, and you won’t hear it come up again. That’s why I like to confirm. Get rid of it.

Rod
Interesting. Okay, interesting. Okay. You know, I know in one of your books, you talk about not just teaching people how to sell, but you spend time teaching them why to sell. Can you just elaborate on what you mean by that?

Rob Jolles
Yeah. You know, I wrote a book with “Simon & Schuster”, did very well. They’re not talking about any book– that books but I’m just saying sold well. Every hardcore salesperson still loves it and reads and I get a lot of emails on it. But I wanted to write a book that–I mean, as a guy’s been on the pit for decades, I keep blowing in there going, hey, we’re going to do stuff one. Here’s what we do. Here’s what we do. Yeah, participant guy here’s a book. And I thought I wonder what percentage particularly when we step out of the classic sales arena, I wonder what percentage we’re missing by saying, here are the four things you need to do to clarify an objection who don’t even see themselves in a selling position. So I wanted to get into the moral implications of why we sell. We have doctors. They’re important– they’re not all great, but most of them are really good and they help keep us well. We have lawyers, some good, some not so good. But the good ones help us interpret the law. Do you know what salespeople do? They help us get past our fear of change and fix things before they become way too big to fix. They save us from ourselves. And I not only want to have a conversation, I wanted to go deep because I heard you mention it one time, sort of he’s going hard. Persuasion isn’t always pretty. So a lot of times I have to ask you questions that don’t feel so good. I need to believe in what I’m doing, that my cause is right or I’m going to be manipulating. If I’m doing this because, hey, I need them. I need a sale this month. I’m manipulating you. If I do it because you’re going to be out of business in two months and I can see it coming. I have no problem taking the gloves off. That’s the why part.

Rod
Okay. Got it. Got it. Well, I want to tell you guys, you know, when you’re a steward of other people’s money, you better believe in it and you better believe in your abilities and you better not dabble. You better, you know, give it all of your energy and you force yourself to become an expert. And I think I hate to say it, but I think there’s going to be some pain in these next couple of years with people who are aggressive on deals and didn’t take it from that angle. So we’ll see if I’m right or wrong, but if you want to check out Rob, go to “Jolles.com”. He does speaking and does training and sales training and you know, before we cut loose, what’s another area of this conversation that I didn’t ask you about that you’d like to elaborate on?

Rob Jolles
Yeah, and by the way, thank you. From one podcast to another, I always forget to ask that one. It’s a great question because I got one more for you and we would have missed it.

Rod
Good.

Rob Jolles
I really think–I think the trilogy of persuasion is, one, we need a process. Two, and we just were talking about we need to know why we’re doing it, we need to believe in it. But three, I think I missed another thing for 30 years, not just what we say, but how we say it. So in other words, in the old days, we use scripts or whatever, but maybe you’re listening to Rod and you go, well, I’m going to be just like Rod, only we write down what Rod says, we do it. It doesn’t sound like Rod. Well, we got to commit to who we are. But I really think a study in pitch, pace, where we pause, in other words, the spaces between the words, that’s what betrays us, right? So, yeah, it’s not just a process for investors or real estate or sales, whatever. Yeah, there’s a process but I would remind people to rededicate yourself to– like music, you know the words now learn the tune. And people are dying for that. They really need that. Particularly, as you said, Rod, in a tough market where there may be some pain, they’re looking at you. I want to make sure you not only say what you need to say, but you say it the way you need to say it. And we need to pay more attention to that.

Rod
Yeah, no question. I couldn’t agree more. That only comes through trial and error, typically, guys. Or practice, I mean, you can practice it in front of your dog or your spouse or whatever, but it comes with trial and error you got to be comfortable with it. And I would add one thing and that is just be yourself, be authentic, be who you are. Good, bad, indifferent. People can feel it when you’re being real. Would you agree with that, Rob?

Rob Jolles
I would. The problem is Rod is like music, by the way, a thousand percent agree with it.

Rod
Okay.

Rob Jolles
But there’s a percentage of the population that can’t get that authentic.

Rod
Interesting.

Rob Jolles
And so that’s where we need to help them a little bit and sometimes 20 seconds on this, but just getting into character. In other words, well, okay, you’re not feeling it now, but when did you feel it? What was that day like? Climb back into that moment. Now, say the same thing you were about to say, and boom, it pops up.

Rod
Oh, I love that. Yeah. You know, when you can think back about a time that you really killed it, you were in the freaking zone. How are you breathing? How are you standing? How are your shoulders? What were you thinking about? And come at something from that energy you’re on it. No, good. That’s really good stuff. All right, Rob. Well, this is my pleasure to meet you, brother. I appreciate you coming on. I’ll probably have you on again. We’ll have to think about you know maybe some more advanced topics as it relates to sales. But I do appreciate you taking your valuable time to come on today, bud.

Rob Jolles
Hey, it was an absolute pleasure. Good to see you, Rod.

Rod
Likewise. Take care.

Outro
Rod, I know a lot of our listeners are wanting to take their multifamily investing business to the next level. Now, I know you’ve been hard at work helping our Warrior students do just that using our “ACT” methodology, which is Awareness, Close, and transform. Can you explain to the listeners how they can get our help?

Rod
You bet. Guys, we’ve been going non-stop for three years building an amazing community of like-minded people. And our coaching students which we call our Warriors, have had extraordinary results. They’ve purchased thousands and thousands of units, and last year, we did over 1000 units with our students. And we’re looking to grow this group and take it to the next level. We’re looking for people who want to follow a proven framework that’s really step by step, and then leverage our systems and network to raise equity, to find and close deals, and to build partnerships nationwide. Now, our Warrior community is finding success in any market cycle. So if you’re interested in finding out more about how you can become more of our incredible network and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that are coming very soon, apply to work with us at “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345” and we’ll set up a call so you can check us out and we can check you out. That’s “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345”.