Taking a Pay Cut To Follow Your Dreams

Intro
Hi. My name is Rod Khleif, and I’m the host of “The Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing” podcast. And every week, I interview Multifamily Rock Stars and we talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the “Like” and “Subscribe” buttons to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it.

Rod
Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re going to love the guy I’m interviewing today. He’s a super nice guy. His name is Lee Yoder. He had me on his podcast, which is “Threefold Real Estate Investing” and he’s just under 300 doors, or is it three or 400? I’ll let him tell you. I think 20 million in assets under management, but he’s making stuff happen and we’re going to have a lot of fun today. Welcome to the show, brother.

Lee
Yeah, Rod, thanks for having me on, man. I’m thrilled and honored to be here. I’m a long-time listener, so I’m really excited to talk to you today.

Rod
Oh, I appreciate that. Well, you’ve got kind of a unique story. Why don’t you tell us your story as to why real estate and what you did before real estate and just, you know, how it all came together?

Lee
Yeah, sure. So I’m a physical therapist by trade, so I went to school for 20 years straight, starting in kindergarten all the way through grad school. So definitely went that education route, maybe the poor dad route. Got out. I enjoyed that job. I was doing outpatient and I got into home health where I would go drive around to people’s homes, mostly elderly people, and treat them in their homes. So I had a lot of flexibility in that job and was making, you know, enough money for our family. My wife, really, she was an RN, but only working PRN, so staying home with our first child and so like things were really good on the home front. My wife was really happy, but I got really bored. I just was not challenged by that job, wasn’t fulfilled by that job. So the company I was with wanted to bring me in as the clinical director, over, kind of over that part of the company. It was a start-up company here in Cincinnati, Ohio, where we live. And I pretty quickly stopped doing any physical therapy and was doing more like a director of operations role type stuff and just kind of climb the corporate ladder and really enjoying that. Now, Rod, I’m kind of on the opposite side, so really exciting, fulfilling, challenging work that I felt more created to do, but now, no flexibility. And so the wife didn’t love that. Now, we have two young kids, so it felt like, man, now I’m enjoying my work, but it doesn’t fit the family. So it kind of felt like, gosh, is that my choice to have up to pick between like a job that’s flexible and good for the family and a job that I enjoy, but it’s not good for the family. And so kind of trying to figure out you know, what am I going to do? What path am I going to go down? Someone handed me a real estate book. I end up reading “Rich Dad Poor Dad”, and kind of the light bulb moment so many people had that like, wow, there are more than just these two options. There’s a different path. And so I started going down that rabbit hole. Found podcasts like yours, Rod, listening to you, you know, tell us about how we can get into this, bringing people on that have done it. And I thought, man, okay, there’s a whole different route. So what I decided to do, Rod was I left that corporate job, took a pretty big pay cut, went back to home health physical therapy, where, again, not challenging or fulfilling, but lots of flexibility, which allowed me to do real estate on the side and start real estate as a side hustle so I could get into it. So I did that kind of towards the end of 2016, and I’ve been building the real estate stuff and was eventually able to go full-time. But yeah, that’s kind of how I got into it.

Rod
I love it. And there are some really good messages in this, guys, like the fact that he stepped back and took a pay cut to get the flexibility he needed to pursue his passion. And guys, sometimes you have to do that. Now, I’m not going to tell you, quit your freaking job and go do this. Don’t do that, especially with what’s coming. You know, “Rich Dad Poor Dad”, Robert Kiyosaki has said it’s going to be a bigger crash in ’08 and ’09. Trump has just said it’s going to be a depression, not a recession. So, guys, an opportunity is freaking coming. Don’t quit your job. You need income while that happens. You need cash, you know, as much cash as you can get, or access to cash. These deals take money. It doesn’t have to be your own money. But, yeah, and another thing you said was your wife, you’ve got two kids. Your wife wasn’t happy with, you know, you being away and not having that flexibility.

Lee
Right.

Rod
And guys, if you’re listening and you haven’t done my goal-setting workshop, of course, that’s the first thing we do at my boot camps. But I did it on January 1st of this year. New Year’s Day. I do it every year at around the 1st, and I did it on New Year’s Day this year. With music, with a guide, you can download. But the reason I bring this up at the tail end of it, I did my weekly planning process. And I want to bring this up because if you’ve got kids, if you’re overwhelmed, you really need to watch that or listen to it. It’s incredibly powerful. It’s how I manage two large companies at the same time. And where do you find it? You go to “RodsLinks.com”, and not only is a bunch of free stuff there, there’s my boot camp site. By the way, you know, I don’t want to take all my time talking about me here, but I just want to add some value. But I do have a boot camp coming up if you need to get up to speed, for God’s sake, get up to speed. I’ve got a virtual boot camp coming up, like less than $100 right now to come.

Lee
Wow.

Rod
And it’s not a sales pitch, kind of a no-brainer, but the planning thing, it was really powerful, especially if you’ve got kids, so that you spend the important time with the people that matter. My biggest regret in life is coming home to my big mansion on the beach and playing with my kids, but not being there mentally, being distracted, and I don’t want that for any of you. So, you know, and the other thing you said was you just weren’t fulfilled. So, guys, you know, there are a lot of messages here that Lee has thrown out there because you know, a lot of you feel like you’re not fulfilled. You’re in the freaking rat race. You know, you’re not where you want to be. And so I would encourage you because the opportunity is freaking coming. Do you agree with me, Lee?

Lee
Yeah, I do, Rod. Yeah, I definitely do. Yup. I’m not smart enough to know what Robert Kiyosaki knows about the economy, but listening to guys like him and guys like you and yeah, I tend to agree. I think it’s coming.

Rod
No, I’m certain of it. And you need to get up to speed as fast as possible. It’s going to be multifamily. For God’s sake, come see me. So you got to pick your vehicle. If it’s going to be a different asset class, single-family, I’m not the guy. But, you know, buying businesses, there will be opportunities to buy businesses. There are going to be a lot of opportunities. Everything is going on sale, and so, you know, don’t miss out on this incredible opportunity. So, anyway, talk about what you did. You know, so you jumped in and you stepped back. You had flexibility again, talk about your first deal. Talk about your first small multifamily deal.

Lee
Yeah, sure. Well, the very first deal, Rod, was we flipped the house.

Rod
Oh, you did. Okay.

Lee
Yeah. So it felt like that’s the way to get started. And it felt less risky.

Rod
Sure.

Lee
And, you know, we could afford the mortgage on that house if nothing good happen. My wife was very risk-averse, and she was not all-in. In fact, later I had to read the “Rich Dad Poor Dad” book, Rod, and she said, I identify with the poor dad. You know, I’d rather [inaudible]

Rod
You know, it’s funny you say that, because at the boot camp– to digress again–

Lee
Yeah, go ahead.

Rod
One of the things I get into very heavily is getting support from your family. You have to. And so we talked about how to get through that. But anyway, continue. Were you able to get her over to your side through–

Lee
Yes. Eventually, I was. And you know what? I didn’t really have a right to expect her to jump in right away. She’s not created like me. God wired her very differently.

Rod
Right.

Lee
And she just said, I have no reason to trust you in real estate. I trust you in every other way. But let’s see how this one works out.

Rod
Ouch.

Lee
Yeah. We do the flip, Rod. And, you know, again, listening to guys like you the whole time that are saying multifamily is where it’s at. Multifamily. But, you know, I got to learn the hard way. So get into it. We actually were successful in that flip. We did well, but I put a ton of time into it. You know, we made money because I did a bunch of the work myself. And the funny thing is, Rod, it was like this perfect picture. When I left that job, I mentioned I took a pay cut and then I’m working a full-time job, but it’s not nearly as busy. But then I had a flip on top of it. So now I am busy and I literally made the exact amount on that flip of my pay cut.

Rod
Oh, wow.

Lee
So, it was this perfect picture of all I’m doing is trading my time differently for money. Right?

Rod
Right.

Lee
That’s all it is. And so, that’s fine. Again, if you want to do that to build up some cash, okay. But it’s not investing. So it took me one flip, Rod, again, helping by listening to great podcasts like yours to say, flipping is not investing. This isn’t where I want to be. So then the next one was a duplex. And then we got into a 16-unit and kind of progressed pretty quickly because I just knew I wanted to get into multifamily. I knew that is how you scale. That’s how you build residual income. And so we did the one flip and said, that’s [inaudible]

Rod
Well, you’re smarter than I am, brother. It took me 2000 houses to get the memo. So you’re smarter than I am.

Lee
No, that’s because your coaching is so helpful, Rod. That’s why people [inaudible]

Rod
I appreciate that.

Lee
Yeah. Had to learn from that, yeah, and do it differently.

Rod
Everybody starts with a house or a duplex. The guys with thousands of doors that come on my show start with a house or a duplex. But you notice that very often I’ll ask the question, you know, what would you do to your 18-year-old self if you knew? Because I know what the answer. It’s always going to be bigger, faster, and I want my peeps to hear it. So talk about that first small apartment building.

Lee
Yeah. Rod, I ended up joining the local REIA just to see what that was like. And they had an apartment focus group. And this is a big part of me, and this is about coaching and mentorship, and education. Everybody– to me, if you want to go multifamily, you have to get that. It’s so important. So I got really lucky that there was a guy leading an apartment focus group. He had been out and got the coaching and he was teaching the rest of us kind of to underwrite. So I found a 16-unit on Loopnet.com in my area and 25 minutes from my house. I’m underwriting it. I took it in. This was the fall of 2018, Rod, so not as crazy as it has been in the past couple of years. It felt expensive back then, but my goodness, nothing compared to what we’ve experienced the past couple of years. So took it to him. He said, yes, your underwriting looks good. I said okay, I guess I’ll make an offer. He helped me each step of the way. I end up giving him a piece of that deal just for helping me so much.

Rod
Nice.

Lee
And it was him, Rod, that coach, that guy that had been there that said, yes, this is safe. You’re doing it right. Go ahead and keep moving forward. Keep moving forward. And then partnering with a property management company that was going to manage it, you know, to take that burden off of me, that gave me the confidence to get into that first, you know, bigger multi– it’s still just 16 units. Nothing compared than, what you know, you–

Rod
Better than a sharp stick in the eye, brother, let me tell you.

Lee
Yeah. And it got me into order.

Rod
And it’s a great place to start.

Lee
Yeah, right.

Rod
Great place to start. And really, you know, that’s so, so lucky that you found a local guy like that that could help you.

Lee
Oh, yeah.

Rod
And guys, you need to find that for yourselves. Okay? Go to your local meetups, go to your, you know, REIA meetings, Real Estate Investor Association club meetings, and try to find someone like that. And, you know, there’s a reason my students have somewhere in the 70 to 90,000 unit range that we know of because they’ve had that same experience. They’ve aligned with people that have done it, and that’s how this business is done. It’s really a strength in numbers thing. So, good for you.

Lee
100%.

Rod
So, you know, I know that– we talked before we started recording about one aspect of the business that you kind of had an epiphany, and it was property management. Can you elaborate on that?

Lee
Yeah, Rod. So, just as we’re, you know, we are still–

Rod
Oh, wait a minute. Before we go there. Sorry, before we go there, so you underwrote that 16-unit.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Did you get some help from your coach on– from this guy on how to do that properly? Because it’s different than underwriting a house?

Lee
Oh, yeah, 100%. Yes.

Rod
Okay.

Lee
That was the thing I felt least comfortable with, to even going forward. So, yes, he was coaching us, you know, once a month going to those meet-ups, and he was coaching us to underwrite.

Rod
Nice.

Lee
So then that’s what LoopNet is great for.

Rod
Right.

Lee
Or get on a broker list and just underwrite deals. Just underwrite, underwrite. So, yes, I had done a bunch of that, Rod, to the point where when I got to this one, I said, now for wait a second, this one actually looks like it might be a good deal because I’ve done many of them.

Rod
Got it.

Lee
Yeah. It was his teaching that help me do it.

Rod
Got it. I so love to hear that you found it on LoopNet because people don’t think they can find deals there, but they can, and that’s going to come back again. So this was in Cinci, right?

Lee
Yeah. Kind of north of Cincinnati. Cincinnati Dayton area.

Rod
Okay. Yeah. We’ve got several assets in Cincinnati, a couple of big ones.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Okay. So, property management.

Lee
Yes. Okay. Yeah, so, you know, kind of starting out small, Rod, we kind of start out with a small property management company. And, you know, those are property management companies that will manage single-family homes, small multi, and then we hand them a 16-unit. We kind of scale with them. And then eventually we handed them a 96-unit. They did it with the model of, you know, the 8% fee and then the first month’s rent, which is pretty common on the small stuff. But then, man, they really, you know, every time [inaudible]

Rod
Okay. All right, I have to stop you. I have to stop you.

Lee
Yeah. I know.

Rod
Okay, I know the pain that’s coming. I know it. I teach this, it is– you cannot– and I’m going to tell you, there are a lot of– I’m not going to say fly by night, but that’s kind of what went into my head. Small management companies, they managed houses and duplexes and fourplexes, they will crash and burn on– even a 16-unit, frankly, in most cases, because they just don’t understand the whole on-site person dynamic. With a 16-unit, you got to have somebody on site keeping an eye on things, picking up trash, you know, things of that nature. I will tell you, with that size property, the bell of the ball is to find an old retired couple. Okay?

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
And where you’ve got an old man that’s been in the trades of some sort, plumber, electrician, drywall, or painter, they can fix anything. So you got him. That’s the husband, and then the wife is the one– and everybody’s freaking business at the window looking through the binocular to see what everybody’s doing. That is the perfect on-site situation for a small multi. But when you said you gave them a 96-unit, oh, my God. I just know what happened. See, guys, here’s the thing. You’ve got to pick a management company that specializes in the size and the asset class, okay?

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Like we had a 403-unit asset in Shreveport. You’ve probably heard me bemoan it and my partner had a management company, and it was a C-asset, C-minus, really. And oh, my God, they crashed and burned. I mean, I took it over. It was about 100,000 a month in revenue and was sold it a few months ago. It was almost 300,000 a month in revenue.

Lee
Wow.

Rod
But I spent three months of my life there because of that debacle. And so if you give an A-asset to somebody that’s– to a management company used to doing C-assets, they’re going to crash and burn and vice versa. C-asset to somebody used to doing an A-assets. But if you give a 96-unit to a management company like you just described I know it’s come– what happened. Tell me what happened. But they tried to do it at 8%, too?

Lee
Yeah, they did. They did.

Rod
Oh, my God.

Lee
But yeah, but where they get us, Rod is just, you know, nothing is included in that. I mean, not nothing, but like every time someone’s going to the property, every time somebody’s doing anything, they’re billing us. And there’s overhead. There’s $65 an hour for anything they’re doing to go out there and fix a lock or something. So, yeah, you think your management fee is low, and then you look at your maintenance costs.

Rod
Yeah.

Lee
And that’s where you’re [inaudible]

Rod
That’s a real profit center for a management company. You really need to dig into that. Okay, so, let me– I’m sorry I keep interrupting you, but there are so many teaching opportunities here. So with a property management company, maintenance is a real profit center. Like you say, they’ll hire some kid at $15 an hour and build them at 65, at 100. You really got to dig into that, especially on the smaller assets. Now, with a 96-unit, you should have had on-site management, on-site maintenance, an on-site leasing agent, there’s enough infrastructure there to really have three employees, and then you should be paying somewhere in the three to four range for the management fee. Okay?

Lee
Yup.

Rod
Okay. And so, you know, that’s what should happen. And that’s just a great example where you have a small management company just hasn’t got a clue how to manage that size asset. So, what did you do? How did you work it out?

Lee
Yeah, so, Rod, they really– you’re absolutely right. It’s matching the right property management company with the right type of– right size property, right type property, all that. Because this is a good property management. I still refer them to people, but it’s like you said, it’s for the smaller stuff. That’s where they’re really good.

Rod
That’s their wheelhouse.

Lee
Exactly.

Rod
People, you know, A management companies handle A property. Small management companies, like, now, I will tell you, there are a lot of them in that space that sucks.

Lee
Oh, I know there are.

Rod
Okay? That handles houses and plexus.

Lee
Absolutely.

Rod
There are tons that are terrible. Okay? So the fact that you found a good one in that space actually is hard.

Lee
Yes.

Rod
I know people that have gone through three or four management companies in that size asset that just nightmares, okay?

Lee
Yes.

Rod
Because of the profit center and the maintenance and the inexperience and the lack of oversight and so on and so forth. But, so, what did you find–

Lee
And it’s harder to manage so many doors that are spread out over the city compared to 100 in one spot.

Rod
It’s why I crashed and burned in ’08 and ’09.

Lee
Yup. [inaudible]. Yup.

Rod
It’s a pain in the butt, man. It just is. So, you found it– go ahead.

Lee
Yeah, so we got a 95-unit in Cincinnati–

Rod
Right.

Lee
And the property management company reason– all of our stuff was in Dayton, and so they weren’t in Cincinnati yet, so they weren’t an option. We didn’t really want to– we wanted to try somebody else. So the property management company that was already managing that 95-unit in Cincinnati, they were doing a great job. I mean, if you saw what they did for the previous owner, you’re like, these guys are doing great. And it was an on-site leasing agent, on-site maintenance guy, the 4% fee, like you said, Rod, advertising costs, marketing costs. So for me, when I looked at all that, I’m like, man, they are expensive.

Rod
Yeah.

Lee
But again, I could not deny what they had done for the property. They made the previous owner– we still [inaudible]

Rod
That’s not expensive, by the way, what you just describe.

Lee
Yeah. That’s what we’re finding out, Rod. That’s what we find out.

Rod
Okay, no, I mean, that is absolutely the norm.

Lee
Sure.

Rod
And guys, a common misconception, guys, is that when you pay a management fee, you don’t pay salaries. And that’s not the case in a larger asset like this, you’re going to pay the salary for the maintenance and the leasing and the manager, and you’re going to pay a much smaller management fee. Now, in a small asset like a plex or a house or, you know, even that 16-unit where they’re having to show units, they’re having to send their own maintenance team, that’s where you can really get screwed if you’re not careful. But then you’re going to have a higher management fee because all of the stuff that’s being done by the on-site people and a larger asset has to be done by the management staff. Okay?

Lee
Yup.

Rod
So just keep that in mind. It’s a very common misconception that you think you get into one of these assets and you don’t have to pay the salaries on-site, but you do. Okay?

Lee
Yup.

Rod
And so, yeah. That management fee really doesn’t cover anything except the oversight of the on-site staff.

Lee
Exactly. Yes.

Rod
Here’s one other piece. You know, when you hire one of these companies on a larger asset like that, make sure that they either have an office located nearby or their regional lives nearby, okay?

Lee
Yup.

Rod
So they’ll have a regional manager that manages the on-site staff. And by the way, I’ve got a resource for you. It’s called “How to Hire a Third-Party Property Management Company”. It’s a book. It’s probably the– I think it’s the best book about this topic in the business. And I say that humbly, but every question you could possibly think of to ask a management company. Here’s the other thing. You will learn more from interviewing a management company than just about anything else you do about a market. If you don’t live there, you’ll just learn a ton. And so if you want this, it’s also on “RodsLinks.com”. It’s one of the free books there. Just go to “RodsLinks.com” and get it. But, you know, it’s a seminar, right? I mean, it’s a seminar. I call them seminars. You know, you learn from these experiences. You know, I have this T-shirt I sell at my boot camps. It says #AskMeHowIKnow because I’ll say, don’t do that. Ask me how I know. And finally, one of my students gave me that shirt and now we sell them. Well, then we give them away, actually. But it’s kind of funny. Okay, so, you learned a lesson. Now, you’ve got a management company that knows what the hell they’re doing, and that thing’s going to hum like a top man.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Yeah. Guys, if you buy an asset and the management company is kicking butt, you know, doing a great job, don’t switch, for God’s sake.

Lee
Oh, right. Yeah.

Rod
Okay.

Lee
No, they definitely show us the light Rod, and what they can do. And the other thing about them, Rod, is they’re big. You know, it’s a pretty big property management company.

Rod
Sure.

Lee
And so I’ve learned how the term pricing power.

Rod
Yeah. Sure.

Lee
That, you know, what they can do with the local carpet companies, the local flooring companies, Lowe’s even, the amount that they purchase is just different for them. They’re doing things that are just blowing us away. Where they’ve got a property where the owner wants all new, only stainless steel appliances, so he’s getting rid of great appliances. And we have, you know, kind of a C-plus asset.

Rod
Yeah.

Lee
We don’t care that much with the appliances. They’re just bringing his appliances over to us.

Rod
Wow.

Lee
We’re not paying for any of them. And they’re doing stuff like that because they manage you know, 12 to 14,000 units.

Rod
Nice.

Lee
So their scale that they have, the pricing power that they have, they’re really blown us away with [inaudible]

Rod
It makes a big difference.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
And, you know, they’ve seen it all.

Lee
Oh, yeah.

Rod
You know, they know how to market that asset properly in that submarket.

Lee
Yup.

Rod
If your maintenance guy gets sick or gets hit by a bus, they can pull somebody from another asset to handle things.

Lee
Right.

Rod
Same with the manager. So, you know, all those little peripheral things that help can really be powerful. And they’ve seen every scenario, every litigation-related scenario. They’re going to make sure you don’t get your, you know, nose bloodied over something obvious like a cracked sidewalk or things of that nature, you know.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Well, that’s really powerful, brother. So that was a big lesson. What other–while we’re on the topic, talk about any other seminars that you had with that asset or the previous asset, you know, where you got your butt kicked a little bit. Talk about that.

Lee
Yeah. Well, recently, Rod, we’ve run into some tax things that are happening. I think that’s going to be an issue that people are going to run into, where– you know, in Ohio you can do entity transfer and so– but local school boards will come out to you because they know your property is worth more than it’s valued on the auditors’ site.

Rod
Interesting.

Lee
So the thing I’ll say there, Rod, is just you’ve– we just keep learning. And I’ve learned it a few times now. I’m a slow learner as well. You’ve got to have a lot of reserves. We had no idea something like this would come along. You know, we had all these other ideas of what might happen, and so we did have ample reserves. But, man, a lot of times that number that you need to just have sitting in an account, ready for a rainy day, or just ready for a surprise. I mean, not only did this happen to kind of this tax issue, a new bill passed in Ohio. Again, how could we prepare for something like that?

Rod
Right. You can’t.

Lee
A brand new bill passed, and so now things are happening a little bit differently. So we paid three years upfront on this tax issue versus three years over three years which is how they’ve always done it until this new bill passed. So, should we have anticipated something like that? No. It wasn’t in effect when we bought the property. But that’s why you have to have reserves because you can’t predict the future. So you just have to be prepared.

Rod
Yeah. Here’s the thing. You want to have– we do six months of expenses, including debt.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
Including Debt. Okay? And so, you know, especially in what’s coming. Okay?

Lee
Yeah, right.

Rod
There’s an incredible opportunity coming. But if you are too aggressive, you’re going to have a problem. And there’s been a lot of aggressive these last few years, you know, like Warren Buffett’s famous quote “be fearful when others are greedy”. A lot of greed these last couple of years. Being greedy when others are fearful. Fear is coming, guys. And that’s why, you know, it’s so important you pay attention to your focus. You don’t get caught up in the fear. Don’t get me started on the BS on the news. Most of it is complete crap. So Ignore It. You know, stay in tune with what’s happening economically, but take everything with a grain of salt because there’s so much BS out there right now.

Lee
Yeah.

Rod
But anyway, so, that’s another one. Yeah. And guys, by the way, if you ever purchase a property and do an entity transfer, make sure you’ve got a great attorney helping you. Because the scary piece with that is if there was you know, somebody that got hit by a bus and they hadn’t filed suit yet, okay, and you buy that entity, that entity takes– you know, you’re buying all the history with that entity. So there could be you know, some, you know, unlitigated claims or some other claims against that entity that, you know, you just need to make sure that that doesn’t exist or that you have got clauses that protect you in that event. But very often, you know, in some states, people will do an entity transfer to mitigate the increase in taxes, the immediate increase in taxes, because, in a lot of states, like Ohio, they only assess the taxes every few years or adjust them every few years.

Lee
Yup.

Rod
And so, you know, that’s why the entity transfer can be a great strategy to mitigate that for a period of time. Okay. So, what’s the driver for you, buddy? You’re freaking motivated like crazy. What’s your motivation? What’s your why?

Lee
Yeah. It goes back to the family for sure, Rod.

Rod
Yeah.

Lee
And what multifamily has done for me, and really just entrepreneurship in general has allowed the flexibility because I don’t– you know, I’m not somebody that has to get pumped up, Rod. You seem the same way. I don’t need pumped up and never have. I wake up pumped up, I wake up ready to go. So I’m always motivated but– and so I really enjoy working and so I can really get caught up in it. But what I love about getting into multifamily, but maybe even just entrepreneurship in general, is I can work really, really hard, which I love doing, but I can do it when it makes sense for my family.

Rod
Yeah.

Lee
And that’s the driving force behind being in multifamily. Being an entrepreneur is that I feel like it’s the best of both worlds. I get to work really hard. Like I said, it’s fulfilling for me, it’s challenging, it’s exciting, which is what I want in my work. But my faith in Jesus and my church and in my family, that really does come first. So I want to be able to put that first. And having the flexibility is what allows me to do that, is when my family needs me, I can be there because I could work in the morning or work at night, whatever. So that’s the driving force behind what I’m doing now.

Rod
Love it, buddy. Love it. And you said a couple of really important things. One was that you love what you do. And guys, you know, I will tell you, you can learn to love anything by associating pleasure with it. If you decide you’re going to do this multifamily, I would encourage you to associate pleasure with it. I like to equate it to hunting for treasure, which is really what it is. But if you can’t learn to love it, for God’s sake, go do something else. Okay? So that’s number one. Number two, you know, when you decide to get into this, you are going– yeah, you may be an employee somewhere else, but you’re taking off that employee hat for this and you’re putting on your entrepreneur hat. And as an entrepreneur, you don’t stop when 05:00 runs. You stop when you’re freaking done. But the beautiful thing with it– and you don’t fail unless you stop. Okay? You’re going to have setbacks for sure. You’re going to get your nose bloodied, stuff’s going to happen, you’re going to have seminars, but you’re like a shark, you only die if you stop swimming. And so, you know, just remember that. But, you know, the beautiful thing, like you said about entrepreneurship, is you dictate your own hours and you can have– you know, if you’re careful, you do my weekly planning thing where you block time, even block time for your kids, for your family.

Lee
Oh, yeah.

Rod
You’ll have an extraordinary life. So, well, listen brother, I appreciate you coming on. It’s been a real treat to have you on. I love your energy and we will definitely stay in touch, my friend.

Lee
Thanks, Rod. Yeah, it’s been a pleasure coming on. You’ve been a big part of my story and your podcast and books and all that, so I appreciate it. It’s been a lot of fun.

Rod
Thank you.

Outro
Rod, I know a lot of our listeners are wanting to take their multifamily investing business to the next level. Now, I know you’ve been hard at work helping our Warrior students do just that using our “ACT” methodology, which is Awareness, Close, and Transform. Can you explain to the listeners how they can get our help?

Rod
You bet. Guys, we’ve been going non-stop for three years building an amazing community of like-minded people, and our coaching students which we call our Warriors have had extraordinary results. They’ve purchased thousands and thousands of units and last year we did over 1000 units with our students, and we’re looking to grow this group and take it to the next level. We’re looking for people who want to follow a proven framework that’s really step by step and then leverage our systems and network to raise equity, to find and close deals, and to build partnerships nationwide. Now, our Warrior community is finding success in any market cycle. So if you’re interested in finding out more about how you can become more of our incredible network and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that are coming very soon apply to work with us at “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345” and we’ll set up a call so you can check us out and we can check you out. That’s “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345”.