From Setback to Success
Rod’s journey is proof that with the right mindset, you can rebuild stronger.
Join him live at the Multifamily Bootcamp and start building your own legacy.
Here’s what you need to know:
In this Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing conversation, I team up with my coach Bart Morse to tackle the topics every modern man—and the women who love them—need on their radar: masculinity, relationship dynamics, emotional vulnerability, and personal growth.
Quick litmus test:
✔️ Guys—are you providing but still feeling disconnected?
✔️ Ladies—do you sometimes feel unseen or emotionally exhausted?
If either hits home, hit “play.”
1. Masculinity ≠ Just Muscles
Real masculinity is principle-driven. Decide ahead of time how you’ll handle life’s curveballs. A steady, confident, predictable man is far more attractive than one who reacts from fear or insecurity.
2. Emotional Traps to Avoid
Operating “below the line” looks like defensiveness, complaining, and indecision—behaviors that force your partner into emotional babysitting. Listen, validate, own your mistakes, and apologize fully.
3. Restoring Masculine/Feminine Polarity
When men show up indecisive or reactive, women step into a masculine role and the spark dies. Bring calm leadership, and you invite her playful, feminine energy back into the relationship.
4. Growth Happens in the Mirror
Marriage exposes insecurities. Extreme ownership kicks off real growth.
5. Purpose Beyond the Paycheck
If your entire identity is “make her happy,” you’ll burn out. A man with a vision outside the relationship brings stability and strength into it.
6. Brotherhood Matters
Iron sharpens iron. A tribe of trusted men keeps you balanced, accountable, and growing.
7. Vulnerability With a Plan
Share your struggles and the game plan to improve. Venting without direction erodes trust; vulnerability plus action builds it.
8. Action Beats Analysis
Bart’s coaching skips the endless talking and moves straight to frameworks that turn you into the leader your relationship needs.
A Personal Note from Rod
If you’ve followed my journey, you know my relationship with my wife, Tiffany, shifted into friendship. Doing this inner work showed me exactly where I stumbled and how to grow. -Rod
Next Step
Text BART to 72345 for Bart’s free videos and tools. Whether you’re single or committed, start leading with strength, calm, and purpose today.
Remember: the most successful men I know anchor their success in solid relationships. Own your growth, show up strong, and build the legacy you deserve.
— Rod Khleif
Bart Morse Bio
Bart Morse, Founder of the Lion’s Den Program, is a coach and mentor empowering men in marriage and business using the Behavior Quadrant method. With expertise sought by organizations like Melinda Gates’ Pivotal Ventures and Microsoft, Bart has two decades of experience mentoring and collaborating with C-Suite executives worldwide. A University of Colorado at Boulder graduate, Bart enjoys LDP workouts, jiu jitsu, and ultramarathons in his leisure time, alongside his missionary work with his family in Southeast Asia.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- Brief Backstory About Rod’s Immigration to the US
- Bart’s Backstory and What Led Him To Be A Coach
- Fear Based Operating In Men
- Being Defensive As a Man and How Not To Be
- Masculine vs. Feminine Energy
- Being Judgemental and Opinionated
- Getting Lost In a Relationship & Finding Yourself Again
- Personal Growth Through a Marriage
- Making Sure to Have a Brotherhood With Other Men
- Don’t Talk About The Changes, Show Them
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
Full Transcript Below
Full Podcast Transcript: Ep #942 – Bart Morse on Masculinity and Relationship Dynamics
Introduction
Rod Khleif: Welcome to another edition of Life Time Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled that you’re here and you are in for a real treat today and you need to listen up if you’re in a relationship or want to be in a relationship and you’re a guy specifically, you definitely need to listen to this episode.
Rod Khleif: You know, if you’re a man that’s providing for his lady, but you feel like you can’t make her happy, you need to listen to this episode. Or if you’re a woman who’s in a relationship, you know, and you don’t feel heard or seen or known, you need to listen to this and maybe point your man in direction of this.
Rod Khleif: So I’m interviewing my coach. Okay? This is the guy I hired to help me to show up in a more masculine way, a more safe way, you know, a more secure way for my next relationship. I don’t know. Maybe you’ve heard Tiffy and I have shifted our relationship to a friendship. She’s my best friend, but we’re no longer romantic.
Rod Khleif: And so. My guest today is Bart Morse and Tiffany actually saw one of Bart’s videos on social media and suggested that I speak to him. So I joined his program. And let me tell you, I had no idea how I was really showing up and operating in that relationship with her. You see, I consider myself incredibly masculine, okay?
Rod Khleif: But what I discovered was I was doing a lot of things that were really more feminine, which made me freaking crazy. I can tell you that, you know, I’m like, Are you fucking kidding me? And so, you know, and then having Bart tell me that Tiffany was probably emotionally babysitting me. Yeah, Babysitting me? Yeah. man, that was not pleasant.
Personal Backstory and Transformation
Rod Khleif: But see, what I didn’t realize is that I had personally had trauma driving my behavior. Now, if you don’t know my story, I immigrated to this country when I was six years old. My brother Albert, my mother’s ranch. We ended up in Denver, Colorado, didn’t speak English. I got thrown into school and I discovered what bullies were for the first time and got my butt kicked occasionally.
Rod Khleif: And then my mom proud Dutch woman that she is thought to be great idea to send me to school and wouldn’t shoes and those leather shorts the Germans were for for Octoberfest. So I got my ass kicked again and you know, then I have, you know, stuff that everybody has had happen to them. Playgrounds. I had a playground story where this girl embarrassed me in front of a bunch of kids that this girl had a crush on.
Rod Khleif: And I ended up not thinking I was good enough, which I didn’t realize how much impacted my relationships. You know, it’s funny, I spent a lot of time with Tony Robbins, and in that environment, you’re taught to to look forward, not not drive through life, looking in the rearview mirror, not exploring your past. But as part of this, I did explore my past and I realized that I’ve had a lot of trauma like you have.
Rod Khleif: I’m sure. And, you know, and not thinking I was good enough was was impactful. And so, you know, sometimes I was controlling, you know, I was reactionary complaining, you know, or defensive angry sometimes. And sometimes I’d give ultimatums, you know, or I’d use leverage. Now, see, that shit can work in a business, but that does not work at home.
Rod Khleif: It doesn’t work in an intimate relationship. And, you know, and I use those things in business all the time. I run two very large companies, you know, the controlling piece and, you know, and, and sometimes anger and sometimes using leverage or ultimatums to get what I want in business relationships does not work at home, you know, And you see what it is is that’s unpredictable behavior to a woman, you know, a woman.
Rod Khleif: And if you’re a woman listening to this, you know, this is true. You want to feel love, you know, so that you can be feminine and creative and, you know, free spirited and playful, first flirtatious. That’s what I want in a woman, you know. And but to get that right has to be calm and cool and connect collected and, you know, and listen without reacting and really be purpose driven and confident.
Rod Khleif: See, when when when a man is like that, that allows a woman to be feminine. And so, you know, me personally, I’m basically creating the new rod. It’s, you know, to be more masculine and centered. You know, I can’t stand the thought of showing up in a feminine way. I guess that makes me get nuts and see feminine is emotion driven decision making.
Rod Khleif: Okay? And that’s, you know, I was allowing my emotions to just drive some of my behavior, my decisions, masculine is being principle driven in your decision making. And this is some of the stuff I’ve learned with Bart. I’m about to introduce him here, but I wanted to give this big pre frame, you know, So I’m I’m working to show up now in in new relationships in a predictable and safe and kind way, you know and instead of being you know, what Bart calls a victim and again, it makes me frickin nuts.
Rod Khleif: So if you’re a guy and you want to be masculine, more masculine, show up that way. You really need to watch or listen to this episode. Bart, welcome to the show, brother.
Bart Morse: Thank you so much.
Defining Masculinity and What Women Want
Rod Khleif: Yeah. So we’re going to we’re going to have a fun interview today. And I think honestly, you know, this is not a real estate interview, but frankly, this is more important. So let me ask you a question, Bart. What does it mean to be masculine these days? You know, and is that what women really want?
Bart Morse: Well, first off, I want to say thank you so much, Rod, for having me on the show. I know you have an incredibly passionate audience, so it’s just an honor to be here. And more importantly, it’s been a complete privilege to watch your transformation, to hear you talk about yourself, the relationship and the way that you just did brings me such joy as a coach.
Bart Morse: So thank you for being an excellent client to work with.
Rod Khleif: Thank you.
Bart Morse: So we all know kind of the traditional definition of masculinity. It’s, you know, muscles, it’s macho, It’s tough when men come to work with me. I like to give them a different definition of masculinity, which is determining how you’re going to show up ahead of time. So it’s principle driven decision making. As you’ve said, when you’re on the battlefield of life, there’s going to be challenges, circumstances, unexpected adversity.
Bart Morse: If you determine ahead of time how you’re going to respond to that. That’s masculinity. And it’s it’s it’s work that you have to do in order to show up in that way. If you don’t, then you’re going to default to operating from your emotions, which are so often fears and insecurities. And so to kind of bridge that over into the next question, what are women wanting?
Bart Morse: You’ll hear, Well.
Rod Khleif: I’m going to tell you some. Let me interrupt you for a sec. I’m dating now. Okay. I can’t tell you how often I’ve heard a woman tell me all these men are feminine, you know. That’s right. They’re emotion driven there and then and and it’s, like, really frustrating from what I’m hearing, to be a single woman out there right now.
Rod Khleif: There’s a there’s the entitled component. There’s a feminine component. So anyway, please continue. So I.
Bart Morse: Think yes. So I think a lot of guys are thinking women are looking for that chiseled jaw, that leading man look. Right. And certainly there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s great. But what they’re really saying is, I want to be with a man who is safe and secure. When you’re emotion driven, when you’re operating from your fears or insecurities, you come across as unpredictable and ultimately unsafe.
Bart Morse: And a woman doesn’t want to be with a man who makes her feel unsafe.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, yeah. No, I’m you know, I’ve I’ve I’ve heard again, this back in this dating nightmare that, I mean, that, you know, a woman wants to be able to exhale when they when they when they’re with a guy, you know, have, have, have a rock in the storm, as it were. Yeah. And so so you know, one or you tell us your story and how you got into this that’s typically how we start an interview.
Rod Khleif: But you know, give us a little backstory on you and and and yeah and let’s go from there.
Bart’s Personal Story
Bart Morse: I’ll tell you a story from my marriage. So I was a runner. Am a runner. I completed a road marathon, which is 26.2 miles and about two kids into my marriage. I decided that I wanted to do what’s called an ultramarathon ultramarathons, anything beyond 26.2 miles. And it typically occurs on like a trail. And so, you know, I was a busy dad to kids and I didn’t feel like I had time to do your classic kind of marathon prep.
Bart Morse: So I found this hack, if you will. Tim Ferriss, author of The Four Hour Workweek, published a follow up book called The Four Hour Body, and in that book was an ultramarathon training plan for a 50 K, So 50 K is translated into about 30 miles, and this could be on a trail. I found one up in central California.
Bart Morse: So I live in Southern California as can be a couple of hours north. And so I signed up with a buddy who is an Ironman.
Bart Morse: And so we set out do this race and about, you know, and real quick, so so Tim’s plan, his training plan was a lot of hit training, high intensity interval training and hill sprints instead of running long mileage over the, you know, throughout the week. So we set out on this thing halfway through the race. I break down, I cramp up everywhere, hit the dirt in total agony.
Bart Morse: Right. And I quickly realize I am not prepared adequately for this race.
Bart Morse: Am able to pick myself up and hobble to base camp. Now, this race out of base camp, three loops of about ten miles. So I’m halfway through. I get to base camp and my wife, she had driven up from Southern California to meet me kind of at the finish line. So she’s there. I get into base camp and I see her come up to her, and of course, she thinks I’m finishing and I have to give her the bad news.
Bart Morse: I have ten more miles. And so she says, okay, my friend Scott, the Ironman, he had finished the race, meanwhile, and was like, like shoes off. And he was like relaxing, feeling really good, turns to him, says Scott, can I borrow your shoes? Scott says, Sure. So she laces them up. They’re about three sizes too big. Of course, she says to me, Let’s go.
Bart Morse: And so together we spend the next ten miles me hobbling the next ten miles through the ranch lands of Central California, tall grass, oak trees. Together we finish the race. And that, to me, is a picture of what marriage looks like.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, that’s quite a story. Well, that’s a woman.
Bart Morse: Now, a couple of things. One, I learned that Tim Ferriss never completed a 50 K ultramarathon himself. Fucker.
Bart Morse: Secondly, unfortunately, I learned 15 years and three kids later that I was not prepared for from my marriage. And, you know, they say it takes two to tango, but every tango has a leader and I was not prepared to lead. And so it ended in divorce, unfortunately. So I am, you know, here today on a mission to give men the information that I didn’t get in time.
Bart Morse: But if men get this information, it might not be too late for their marriage.
Rod Khleif: Now, I know you’ve you’ve you’ve told me about some guys that have been separated and end or on the verge of separation that you’ve. You’ve shifted. So what did you do prior to relationship coaching and did it play a role in in what you’re doing now?
Bart Morse: Yeah, absolutely. So I was a management and technology consultant for Fortune 500 companies, So my clients were Microsoft, the federal Reserve Bank, State of California, T Mobile, Pacific Life Insurance.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Bart Morse: Yeah. And so, you know what I would essentially do as a consultant was was come in, identify pain points opportunities, help them set, you know, goals and then apply frameworks and best practices to net results as quickly as possible. So there’s been a lot of crossover in the sense that in working with men, it’s really the same process.
Emotional Behaviors and Relationship Frameworks
Rod Khleif: Yeah. You know, you’ve given me some frameworks and I really what, what we mean by that is, is how to react in a calm, cool and collected way in certain situations and not be emotional when something, you know, triggers you or or, you know, your spouse is unhappy with you. And and by the way, this is this is he doesn’t do like counseling or relationship coaching.
Rod Khleif: This is just for men to show up the way they need to show up. Right. And and but those frameworks are really important. And I think I think what’s really helped me so far is, you know, I move very quickly. I am irritated because I don’t have a five star review on iTunes because I interrupt too much because I’m trying you know, I’m moving too fast, I’m too reactionary.
Rod Khleif: So I’m at four and a half stars, which kills me. But, you know, that’s that ties right into all this because, you know, when I’m with when I when I was with Tiffany, I would react without thinking. And that’s something that’s been really helpful for me to slow it down. What are the sorts of of behaviors are you seeing in men that they’re doing that is creating that?
Rod Khleif: Well, really, they’re operating what you call below the line fear based operating. And and so what sorts of behavior do you see out there that that men need to work on?
Bart Morse: Yeah. I’m so glad you asked that, because one of the biggest behaviors that men are unaware of that that is so damaging is defensiveness.
Rod Khleif:
Bart Morse: Defensiveness is really a natural motion for a man. And I would argue that in business, it’s it’s very common to kind of bring your logic into the discussion, Hey, that’s not going to work for these reasons. And, you know, it’s it’s almost permissible to sort of, you know, shut the other person down to spend depending on sort of the the hierarchy or whatever.
Bart Morse: It’s just it’s just it’s okay. It’s acceptable in a lot of ways, but a better way in relationship is to make the other person feel heard and acknowledge their feelings. Right. So that’s what we work on. A lot of times men just have not ever learned how to acknowledge their wives or girlfriends feelings when it’s something that they don’t necessarily agree on.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, you taught me that as well. You know, and, and a framework for dealing with that so that, you know that that it’s it’s except well, acceptable is the wrong word so that the woman feels heard.
Bart Morse: That’s right. Defensiveness can can you could even say it It comes across as weakness oftentimes in the eyes of a woman. Right. Because they’re like, man, you’re not able to just hear what I’m saying. Right. Because you’re too insecure. That’s how it kind of comes across. I want to shut you down and defend and sort of turn it back on you so that we don’t have to go to that place where I might have to admit that I’ve got a little bit of a hole in my game or I’ve got a little bit of a fear insecurity about this thing.
Bart Morse: So I would say defensiveness is a big one.
Rod Khleif: And you get that. You get that in apologies as well, because you’ve taught me some great ways to apologize the right way. Right where I’m not. I own the apology. I’m not trying to justify it, you know? Yeah. I’m really sorry that this happened because of this, this, this and this. Instead of just saying, Yeah, I’m sorry I fucked up.
Rod Khleif: That’s right. Okay. Yeah. And and.
Bart Morse: And this is the reason I did it. Yeah. Now. Now you’re just negating the apology.
Rod Khleif: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that’s really powerful because you know that that’s. You know, I’m a talker, man. I can articulate. I’ve got a library downstairs of thousands of books, and I’ve got a great vocabulary. And so when I apologize, there’s always a, you know, an extension on that apology, which makes. Which negates the apology, frankly. Right. Right. Yeah.
Bart Morse: Complaining. Venting.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Bart Morse: That’s those are other behaviors that, you know, you mentioned emotional babysitting when you complain and vent.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Bart Morse: So often, you know, the woman starts to feel like the mom in the relationship. She’s going to make you feel better. Yeah, right. So it’s really easy to get in that habit of just being a complainer because you know that she’s going to be right there to support you.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. And see, that’s that’s. That’s. I did that a lot, you know, because I felt like she was my outlet to, you know, to to vent about the crap I was dealing with, with, you know, with with clients sometimes with with business partners, with adversaries in business. You know, I would vent thinking, okay, well, she’s my resource for that.
Rod Khleif: But that’s really that’s it’s not the place for that because not only does that instill fear in her, but but again she’s emotionally babysitting. Yeah. Is that point. Yeah. Right. Which I can can’t stand thinking that that’s how it was made me nuts.
Bart Morse: But another one is in decisiveness.
Rod Khleif: That’s very common. I think, with men.
Bart Morse: Yeah, right. Yeah. And behind that, you know, you talk about below the line, right? So we talk we’ve talked a lot about operating above above.
Rod Khleif: The line from love. And yes.
Bart Morse: Love. Yes. And the opposite of love is fear. Fear. Right. And so behind in decisiveness is really fear. Right? What if I make the wrong decision? Right. So I’m going to just not make a decision right then I can’t be wrong.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. And I’ll tell you, you know, it’s funny, in dating, I’m seeing that as well, because a really feminine woman, you know, wants me to pick where we’re going to have dinner. I mean, something as simple as that. Yes, they don’t. They don’t want to decide where we’re having dinner. That’s right. I’ll go to Miami, you know, and I’ll go on a date and and and I’ll say something like, Hey, you know, I don’t really know the town.
Rod Khleif: You want to suggest something for dinner. And sometimes I can feel some pull back because I’m not making that frickin choice.
Bart Morse: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: And so, I mean, that’s a real simplistic example, but. But is that that that ties into. Right.
Bart Morse: I think that’s that masculine, feminine energy dynamic. Right? If you’re going to be indecisive, that’s going to come across as sort of this feminine energy. Right. And you’ll see even with a dinner decision, she’ll start to become more masculine. Right. Well, let’s just go here. Right. Start making the decision.
Rod Khleif: And see guys in any relationship. And I learned this in the Tony Robbins environment. He talks about this a lot. He has a hold down relationship and, you know, and talks about masculine feminine energy and how in any relationship there has to be that polarity for there to be a sexual spark, for there to be energy. Even in a gay relationships got to be masculine and feminine energy.
Rod Khleif: And if there is not, you basically have a friendship. But there’s no there’s no it’s not sexy, It’s not you know, there’s no sexual energy at that point if it becomes a friendship. So, you know, and I know Tony talks about this a lot, where women that have either had an abusive past or are really focused on business can put on this masculine mask.
Rod Khleif: And then what happens when they’re masculine like that, they will attract a man. They can manipulate a pleaser. And what’s sad about that is they’ll never feel truly safe with that man because they can manipulate him. Yeah. So they they and so it’s it’s a very common dynamic today, you know, in this whole feminism movement where, you know, I can do it as good as men and whatnot.
Rod Khleif: We won’t get don’t go down that rabbit hole. But but the point is, you know, women that operate like that are going to attract a man that’s effeminate because that’s how they’re because that’s how they’ll create the polarity, because they’re the masculine in the in that in that relationship. Yeah. But so what are some of the you know, I think you’ve started to talk about this, but I want to make sure we hit them all.
Rod Khleif: What are some of the biggest mistakes you see men make, like defense, evenness and reacting? What are some of the things? Well, first of all, I say, yeah.
Further Insights on Relationship Behaviors
Bart Morse: Yeah, sure. Controlling the ultimatums. I want to say just waiting too long, too, to to take action and make changes. Yeah. Kind of like the guy who doesn’t want to pull over and get directions, right? Sort of. All of us. Right? Right. If you wait too long, then you really dig yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Because what happens is the trust erodes over time.
Bart Morse: I think a lot of guys think, well, you know, I’m showing up, I’m providing a paycheck. Nobody’s died. So I’m doing a pretty good job of protecting. But what they don’t realize is, you know, things like not doing what you say you’re going to do, not being, you know, totally honest about things, not hearing her right. You know, those just erode that erodes the trust over time.
Bart Morse: Over time, she feels unheard, unseen, unknown, unloved. So not understanding how to create emotional connection. And a lot of guys want more physical, physical connection, right in the relationship. And and women love physical as well. Right. But so often.
Rod Khleif: But it starts emotionally.
Bart Morse: It starts with the emotional.
Rod Khleif: And if you’ve never learned how to create that emotional connection because maybe you just were focused on kind of winning the girl, getting sex.
Bart Morse: That’s it, you know, You know.
Relationship Advice and Success Stories
Rod Khleif: Buying the gifts or whatever. She’s got a different story, right? I hate to make too many generalizations, Right. But if you’ve never really learned how to create that emotional connection when the going gets tough. Right. That’s the problem is like when you’re dating, sometimes it can feel a little bit, you know, like the wind is your butt. You both want to just get married, right?
Bart Morse: Let’s do this. But then you get married and it’s like after that, man, it gets tough. Right, Right. That’s one of the challenges. Get right. That’s when the work starts. So as a man, you got to create emotional connection in the midst of challenges and adversity. So I would say that’s that’s a big, you know, challenge for men.
Bart Morse: Sure.
Rod Khleif: Well, I’ll tell you, you know, I know what it cost me in my previous relationship, even my first marriage, you know, that was very acrimonious. And she would say, I’m a controlling PC. You know what? But, you know, even with my daughter, you know, I was so focused on business and success that I again, I caught I brought that energy to my relationships.
Rod Khleif: And even with my daughter, sometimes I’m really intense, you know, when I’m coaching her and judgmental sometimes and opinionated. And I’d make her angry because she’s exactly like me. And, you know, we’ve had we’ve had, you know, some conflict like that. And I realize now what was driving all that. And of course, it cost me the romantic relationship with Tiffy.
Rod Khleif: But, you know, I can tell you, even in business sometimes my intensity would make people cry. Sometimes I’d have to apologize. Listen, it’s not you. I’m just. I’m just focused. And so but that really was me operating from fear. And it’s hard to it’s painful for me to admit that. I have to be honest. It’s painful for me to admit that, you know, our irritating business partners, talking over people, cutting them off, so on and so forth, you know, and and that’s that’s fear based hate saying this feminine behavior.
Rod Khleif: So, you know, and and this is what I’m learning, guys, And that’s why I wanted you guys to hear this, because I know there’s a lot of you like this out there. And and please know, I’m not getting anything from bringing him here or anything like that. I’m going to suggest you reach out to him for sure. In fact, on that note, I set up a link for him.
Rod Khleif: He doesn’t do much marketing. I set up a link for him. If you text Bart to 723, four, five, he’s got an awesome video that talks more about this that you can watch. Okay, so text BART 27234, five. But, you know, I’m going to tell you, I’ve learned a ton. Well, tell me about some of that, some success stories.
Rod Khleif: Bart, tell me, maybe highlight one or two of those that that where you’ve helped somebody. Yeah.
Bart Morse: So I want to say one thing about that. So I do work with wealthy guys who have status. Not everyone. Right. But you know, for guys who feel like, man, if I could just make more money, is it nothing wrong with making more money? But I you know, we all want that for everyone. But for guys who feel like, man, my marriage will will be good once I make a certain dollar amount.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, that’s.
Bart Morse: Wrong, right? It’s not true. I hope you make more money, but you’re going to find that the challenges are just different. Once you have more money, you still have to work on the marriage. Right? Right. One of my clients guy, came in over social media and he’s one of the most successful guys in Silicon Valley. He’s sort of a Forbes list investor.
Bart Morse: And he is you know, you wouldn’t you wouldn’t expect this one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. And therein sort of lies the problem when it came to his marriage. So his wife was very masculine. She was a tech executive and he was avoiding conflict, you know, like so, so much. And so we identified that he was trying to get sort of the love and appreciation that he desired by not rocking the boat.
Bart Morse: Being a pleaser. Yeah, exactly. And he and he identified that we work a lot on self-awareness. He didn’t want to say no, and he didn’t want to ask for what he needed when he came into the to when he started working with me. He’s on the brink of separation. So we identified, you know, these different kind of pain points of avoiding pleasing.
Bart Morse: And so we went to work on his principles and started to develop this new muscle of asking for what you want and being okay with rejection, and also say no, because she was kind of walking all over him. And, you know, you sort of alluded to this when you start to say, no, that’s not such a bad thing.
Bart Morse: Right? Right. That’s actually a good thing. That’s actually it’s counterintuitive, but that’s what your wife wants is to be in relationship with a man who’s capable of saying no. Yeah, right. Because it does.
Rod Khleif: Because it feels secure, right? Yeah. Right. It’s and it’s you can’t manipulate if you can’t manipulate, you feel secure, right? Solid, dude.
Bart Morse: And as you know what we’re what we’re talking about when you say no is not a no out of your fears but a no out of your principles, not just.
Rod Khleif: What you believe.
Bart Morse: In. Yeah, right. That doesn’t align with who I am. Yeah. I’m not going to allow door slamming in my house because I want us to have a a safe house for us in our relationship and the kids.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, right. An example if, if Yeah, if the spouse slams the doors, there’s like, no, don’t do that. Right.
Bart Morse: So, so you’re, you’re advocating for what you want, right. And that’s the reasoning behind saying no. Right. And so after about four months, we created a lot of new behaviors also rooted in new beliefs. And what was really cool was the physical intimacy had had died down. So after, you know, four or five months of working together, that dynamic started to change.
Bart Morse: And that was huge for him because he wanted more physical connection. Sure. And she finally felt safe to to to to participate in that as well. And so, you know, in his words, he he felt like the marriage went from a two to an eight. Nice. And he he’s no longer identifying himself as sort of this this nice guy, if you will.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Yeah. I hate to say it, but, you know, sometimes as guys, we act like little bitches.
Bart Morse: That’s 100%.
Rod Khleif: I hate it. I frickin hate admitting that. But. Yeah, but, you know, that’s what I’ve learned, which is just been such a freak, an eye opener for me. You know, another thing is, is I recognize it because of stuff that happened to me when I was a kid. I can’t stand rejection. So I will actively, proactively reject someone if I feel like there’s a possibility of being rejected.
Vulnerability, Purpose and Taking Action
Bart Morse: Which.
Rod Khleif: Which is that common? Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I was. You know, I just discovered that. And so, you know, and, and getting clear on your purpose and, you know, identifying, you know, who I am and, and, and, and you’ve helped me do that. And, you know, I help people achieve freedom through real estate investing. That’s really my purpose statement.
Rod Khleif: That’s the truth of it. And that’s that’s my driver. You know, see a masculine man knows who he is, what he stands for and where he’s going. Right. And, you know, if you don’t know those things, you’re you’re led by your emotions. It’s just how I was led. Yeah. And so you’ve got to have a vision for who you are as well.
Rod Khleif: And I really appreciate you helping me with that, you know? So, yeah. What do you think is one of the bigger challenges that you encounter when you’re working with men that are, you know, doing this work? What what comes up?
Bart Morse: Yeah. Okay. A couple of things on that. So one is a lot of guys, nine out of ten times when I ask God what his purpose is, he’ll say to provide for my wife and kids.
Rod Khleif:
Bart Morse: Okay. So that’s awesome. That’s that’s your responsibility. That’s every man’s responsibility who has a wife and kids to provide for them. But that’s not your purpose. Your purpose should be outside of the marriage.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Bart Morse: Because if it’s not, then you’re going to fall into this trap of trying to please trying to please through providing you’re going to be on this hamster wheel, it’s going to be the happy wife happy life thing that then slides, slips into codependency.
Rod Khleif: Right. That’s what happened to me. Right. It’s exactly what happened to me because, because I remember, you know, I felt like I was living my life to make Tiffany happy. And if you asked her what’s Rod’s purpose in life, she would tell you to make me happy. But but that actually became some codependency for me. That’s right. And.
Bart Morse: And very common. Yeah. So. Wow. And Jordan Peterson talks about this. So he says men need it to have responsibility, to feel meaning. So so it’s it’s okay to to be proud, to be providing for your family that’s a good thing. And make lots of money and. Great. That’s awesome. Right? But what I’m talking about is an opportunity to discover your like a purpose beyond your marriage.
Bart Morse: And that benefits the marriage because, you know, the the woman that you’re married to was think about it. She was attracted to the man that you used to be prior to that marriage.
Rod Khleif: And I want you to hear what he just said. The woman that was attracted to you for the man you used to be, and that that really hit home with me. I got to tell you, because we shift, we shift.
Bart Morse: We get lost in the marriage. Right? Right. We maybe stop going out and being with friends. I think a lot of guys I talked to, they don’t have a lot of male friends anymore.
Rod Khleif: Same, same here. Right. I was totally focused on her. Right. And women, I hope this is resonating with you as well. And if it is, you know, you might want to direct your guys to this type of work because I like I said, it’s been a real game changer for me. But you know, it I felt like I was getting lost in it for sure.
Rod Khleif: Codependent. But I’m working on me, you know, and and it’s been it’s been a real eye opener, I have to tell you. It’s been a real frickin eye opener, you know? And the big thing is, is for me, like we talked about, is deciding how I’m going to show up before I even have a conversation with her. So I don’t react.
Rod Khleif: And I’m not opinionated and judgmental and and I’m that safe, calm, cool, collected guy that she she needs, you know, whoever I get with needs. So. So, you know what? If you’re not in a marriage or a relationship yet, I mean, should you wait to start working on yourself?
Bart Morse: Absolutely not. I mean, now is the time to do the work, right? What’s so great about doing this work now, if you’re in the dating phase, is that you can set the tone, you can practice, you know, saying no. You can practice asking for what you want when the stakes are a little bit lower. And that develops a healthy relationship before you ever get married.
Bart Morse: Now she knows that this is a guy who says, Yeah, yeah, who’s on a mission, who has his vision figured out. He’s got a set of principles that he lives by and he’s going to say no to me at times.
Rod Khleif: And guys, that may sound a little crazy to you, but that’s what a woman wants. They want that solidity in a man and women. You know, I’d love to hear from you if you feel otherwise. Okay. But I believe this to be the case, and I’ve heard it enough times now, you know, and and you know, and that and so so start now is the point and yeah yeah.
Bart Morse: And and be a huge thing that guys also benefit from is starting to be more proactive. Yeah okay so this happens time and time again in a marriage you get you know you you kind of win the girl you get in the marriage and then a common kind of complaint among women in some places. Yeah. He stopped taking me out for date nights.
Bart Morse: Right. He’s not planning anything. I’m sort of running the household. Yeah. And so one of the things that we do is take a look at that. Are you taking her out for date nights? Are you planning the weekend getaways? Yeah. Are you posting little, you know, notes and letting her know how much she means to you? Right. Being proactive is huge, and I think probably some of the men feel like, you know, are listening to this.
Bart Morse: Might feel like we’re sort of beaten up on men. But all of this work, I think you would agree, actually makes you feel better.
Rod Khleif: Sure it does. Right? You do. You’re owning your own, you know, owning who the frick you are, you know, and and and how you show up. And it gives you a strength and a power. And and you recognize I mean, if you’re honest with yourself, you recognize that this is important stuff. You know that and, and my God.
Rod Khleif: And you know, you said happy wife, happy life. I believe in that. But to have that, you’ve got to do some work. Yes. And so so, you know, and those of you, I know if you watching me, you want success and whatever that means to you. And I’m going to tell you the most successful men on the planet have are in a solid relationship for a that’s a I mean, that’s a proven Google it.
Rod Khleif: You know, the most successful men out there are in a solid relationship. If you if you do on a percentage basis. And and it makes a big difference. You know, I’m I know for me, my business is suffering because I’m out there you know, cat in around looking for what’s next and you know and my growth happened when I was with Tiffany, you know, and so that’s it and previous marriage as well that because I wasn’t you know I wasn’t, you know, scattered and I didn’t have that that solid home relationship.
Rod Khleif: And so, you know, that was a that was a big that was a big piece that a big discovery piece for. Me as well.
Bart Morse: Well, let me say something really quick about that. So marriage, I believe, is so awesome because it’s going to bubble up the insecurities, right? And it’s going to give you visibility into a lot of the gaps or the fears that you’ve been carrying maybe for a long time, sort of forces those up to the top. And that’s the hard part about marriage.
Bart Morse: But if you have a healthy game plan for how to deal with it, then there’s a refinement process that happens and you grow tremendously as a person through this relationship, this marriage with the other the other person. So that’s the beautiful thing about marriage for sure. But it requires the first step is extreme ownership. Yeah, and that’s a lot of what we’re talking about we’re in Jocko and Lake Babbitt.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. The big SEAL guy. If you don’t know who that is. Yep.
Bart Morse: Has written that book Extreme Ownership, which is essentially saying, you know, I am going to communicate, I’m going to take responsibility for even if something goes wrong, I’m going to take responsibility for it. Even if I didn’t, you know, necessarily feel like it was my fault by saying, you what? I must not have communicated clearly what our objective was.
Bart Morse: You’re on the battlefield. And when you start to take that mindset on, you’re going to find that the people around you will naturally then start to take responsibility for their actions too. But it requires that getting over your ego and starting to take extreme ownership first. And that’s what being a leader is. Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Pushing past 100% on it or percent the good, the bad, the ugly. So the bottom line is feminine. Women want a man that’s masculine, that knows who he is, lives by principles, you know, is solid, is not driven by emotion. He’s driven by his principles. And and so, you know, guys, even if you’re not in a relationship, if you want to be in a relationship, you know, start looking into this work.
Rod Khleif: Because I can tell you, being out there dating, I’m hearing a lot of complaints from women about, you know, the the the feminine nature of a lot of the men out there, you know, So. So let me ask you this. In your experience, what are the key components of a healthy, fulfilling relationship for a man?
Bart Morse: So much of it is about avoiding the codependency trap. So really what we try and do is make sure that the man knows his true self. Right. And true self is, you know, what do I what’s my identity? What do I really stand for? And that’s a lot of the work that we do, as you know. Yeah. You know, I’m a man who X, Y, and Z.
Bart Morse: Yeah. And knowing that then gives you a guide line or a roadmap North Star for how to show up. And so what I would say is this healthy relationship means you have a life outside of the marriage.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Yeah, right. Which I didn’t have honestly, in my life.
Bart Morse: My ex, it’s a counterintuitive.
Rod Khleif: Thing, totally focused on her thinking that that’s what was right, but it really wasn’t right. And then towards the end of the relationship, I mean, before we shifted, she’s like, You need to have more guy friends and get out there. That’s right. I just didn’t want to. Right. But but the reality of it is that it was it would have it would have made a difference if I had. Right and so you know I’m nurturing those relationships now.
Bart Morse: That’s that’s one of the so if when guys come to to you know take the first step in working with me, I have them take a little quiz. Okay. And it’s got eight areas I call them eight mountains. You know, it’s like body, mind, soul, companionship, brotherhood, fatherhood, because I want guys to see that there’s so many other areas outside of just the relationship in the marriage.
Bart Morse: Yeah. And you’ve kind of got to treat it like an investment portfolio. You’ve got to be making investments across these different domains or or areas of a man’s life in order to have a balanced and more fulfilling life.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, See, that was a huge eye opener for me because I thought, Hey, if I’m working my ass off providing an unbelievable life for my ex and then, you know, totally focused on her, that that that’s what every woman wanted and wrong, that’s not, you know, they want to see that balance. They want to see that diversity and and and that was a real eye opener for me as well.
Rod Khleif: And so, you know, how can a man strike that balance between, you know, being part of a committed relationship like I definitely was in super committed, in my view, but also maintaining some individuality?
Bart Morse: I think it starts with getting into some sort of a brotherhood community with with other men, because when you do that, it just naturally is going to lead to adventure hobbies. Yeah. And there’s just certain things that you get from being in relationship with other men that you just you’re not going to get from a woman. And that’s okay.
Bart Morse: Yeah, I think we’ve lost this tribe culture, tribal culture, of course, because we’re such rugged individualists in the United States. Social media has, as you know, just, you know, loneliness is off the charts, which is very counterintuitive because it feels like we should be more connected. Right? But because it’s virtual connection, we’ve lost a lot of the real and real connection that you only get from being, you know, in person.
Bart Morse: And so I think that men getting in relationship with other men in a healthy with other healthy men who are trying to level up, that’s one of the things that I offer through my program is you get into a class called.
Rod Khleif: Alliance.
Bart Morse: The Lion’s Den.
Rod Khleif: And yeah, and the Lions are the the emotional behaviors that we’re trying to take.
Bart Morse: Really. The beliefs. Yes. The fears, the. Yeah, I feel rejected, right? I feel like a loser. So many successful guys. I mean, I run these executive meetings with.
Rod Khleif: So you don’t just work with successful guys?
Bart Morse: No, I do not know. I work with with all sorts of guys. Right. But it’s really interesting. Some of the most successful guys that I work with will kind of go around the room and say, you know, of these different lions. What resonates the most with you? And so often, you know, 70, 80% of the time they’re like loser, I feel like goes, yeah.
Rod Khleif: And they’re super successful. Yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah, No, I get it. And you know, honestly, I mean on the flip side, women need that that that that the tribal community as well I know Tiffy would go on sex with girls I didn’t love that, honestly. But she just she just needed to be around women and, and just like, guys need to be around guys, right?
Rod Khleif: It’s the same. Right, Same, same thing.
Bart Morse: Right? So healthy relationship requires that you have relationships.
Rod Khleif: Outside.
Bart Morse: Of side of it. Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. And then you come together and it’s. It’s. It’s more powerful. It’s more like that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So what advice would you have for guys? You know, it’s hard to be it was this honestly preparing for this interview was hard. I’ve done more prep for this than probably any other interview because I’m like, you know what? I’m going to air.
Rod Khleif: I’m going to be vulnerable here, which, you know, as a masculine guy is tough for me to be vulnerable, you know? So what what advice would you have for guys, you know, who struggle with being vulnerable and express in how they feel emotionally in a relationship?
Bart Morse: Yeah. Okay. Great question. Important to know that vulnerability is inextricably linked to intimacy, and you need intimacy to have a really fulfilling relationship. At least that’s the theory Brené Brown gave a TED Talk years ago on the power of vulnerability. It has 20 million views. If you’ve never watched it, watch it. And there’s strength in vulnerability. That’s the counterintuitive or paradoxical thing.
Bart Morse: By sharing that, I feel afraid or I’ve got this weakness, you actually look stronger in the eyes of the other person.
Rod Khleif: Interesting. You know, I actually say that in my boot camps and I primarily towards women, you know, that are you know, that are operating in a masculine way. But I never looked in the mirror and thought about it as a man, which is interesting for me. That was a real eye opener for me, you know, And I was telling Tiffy about this interview and telling her I’m I’m not too excited about how vulnerable I’m going to be.
Rod Khleif: And she’s just like, Rod, you’re good. You’re going to show up stronger because you’re being vulnerable. Yes. And and, you know, that’s kind of an eye opener for me as well.
Bart Morse: Let me let me say let me say one one thing about that. So, you know, you’ve learned through this process that being vulnerable is important, but you’ve got to bring some what I call kind of resolution to your vulnerability. Yeah. So to just barf your emotions on the table right. And kind of say, I’m a mess, That’s not what I’m talking about.
Rod Khleif: No.
Bart Morse: It’s saying this is an area that I’m struggling with. Here’s what I’m going to do to take care.
Rod Khleif: Of it as part of the communication with. Right. Right. So you don’t just you don’t just, like, complain and barf and be vulnerable. You say, okay, yeah, that’s all happening. But here’s my solution.
Bart Morse: Here’s my plan right here. And she can be a part of that. She can say, Here’s what I’m seeing. You should invite B, inviting her to share because she’s got a lot of wisdom. She knows you better than anyone else on the planet, most likely if you’re in a marriage with this woman. And so she’s probably got some really great advice.
Bart Morse: And you need to have the ability to hear that. yeah. And go, Yeah, you know what? I’ll take that. Yeah, I’ll listen. I’m listening, I’m hearing that. And then you take that advice. I mean, some of the best advice you’re ever going to get is is going to be from her. So she needs to be a part of that.
Bart Morse: But also you not you’re not looking to her to solve your problems.
Rod Khleif: Right? Right. Well, that’s like that conversation I would Tiffy this morning, literally, I did it my cold plunge this morning before I came in here. And and, you know, that insight was powerful for me. That’s right. Like it’s okay to be vulnerable.
Bart Morse: That’s right. It’s huge. Yeah.
Rod Khleif: And and, you know, some of the greatest advice I ever gotten was was from her, frankly. So, you know, to to go back and think about some of the things that I did wrong with Tiffany. You know, when because I was so dependent on the relationship and focused on being with her and she was like my world when she did do these trips with the girls, I would I would operate from fear and and I would get defensive and angry and and even give ultimatums.
Rod Khleif: And that I mean, she got to a point where she she was afraid to even tell me if she was going to go do what she was going to do it regardless. But she was afraid to tell me about it. And, you know, I remember ultimately working through it with her, but it was there were years where she would go on these trips or go do things with girls.
Rod Khleif: And and I would just feel like, yeah, you know, why aren’t you spending time with me? It was a real kind of a weak place to be. And and I know it really turned her off because she’s like uber feminist. And I’m not feminist. I’m feminine, uber feminine. I mean, she’s she’s one of the most feminine women I’ve ever met.
Rod Khleif: And, you know, she she is actually turned off by men that are feminine. And I was operating in that place. And I know that was a big a big part of what happened. But, you know, so I’ve got a question or a question. You know, I’ve we did therapy, we did couples counseling, things like that, which really didn’t work.
Rod Khleif: What’s the difference between what you do and stuff like that, the counseling and what’s the difference?
Bart Morse: Yeah, well, first off, I don’t really care how you feel, right?
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Bart Morse: You know, I’m. I say that just a little bit, but what I mean is I’m going to give you the best practices, the actions that I think align with how you want to show up. And I want you to put those into play and let go the outcome. And I believe that if you take the right actions that we know work right in relationship or good for a man, you’re going to over time feel better.
Rod Khleif: And so she saw she.
Bart Morse: 100% yeah right so if therapy to use a sports metaphor is like going to the locker room getting a massage and an ice bath, which is really important, What I do is maybe a little bit more like we’re out on the field, Here’s the plays that we’re going to be running.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, but yeah, that makes sense because that ties right into the training you’ve been given me. By the way, guys, if you want to check out again, he’s got a lot of free videos, but if you text Bart to seven two, three, four, five, there’ll be one there and then you can look him up and there’s other stuff there as well.
Rod Khleif: Really helpful if this if you feel like you need help with this or ladies, if you feel like your guy needs helps with this text Bart 272345. And and again I get nothing for doing this. This is just I want to help you if you’re in the same place that I was because it’s not a cool place and you know, and a lot of pain associated with losing Tiffy over my behavior.
Rod Khleif: So, you know, it’s it’s it’s humbling. Very humbling.
Bart Morse: But let me let me add something that’s you. I think it’s really important that guys know that, you know, they don’t need their wife’s buy in or the girlfriend’s buy in if they’re going to work with me. in fact, some some clients.
Rod Khleif: The women have no idea.
Bart Morse: No idea. Even their which it doesn’t really matter. I mean, what matters is that the changes are being made.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. And it’s not about telling her about the changes either. It’s about showing her the freaking change 100%. You told me that because I. You know, I wanted to tell Tiffy, Hey, I’m doing this. This and this, and you’re like, No, just show up. Show up differently. That’s what she wants. That’s. You’re not going to believe it anyway.
Rod Khleif: That’s right. You know, if she’s been in with a relationship with you for a long time, you have to show up differently. So, no, it’s it’s I’m I’m I’m going to continue this process with you because I’m a slow learner. And, you know, I know, you know, we did an eight week program, but I’m going to continue because I need more help.
Rod Khleif: But but it’s been a real eye opener and shocking to me because, again, I mean, I’m muscular. I work out every day. I feel like a masculine S.O.B. And and to hear that I was operating feminine just makes me frickin nuts.
Bart Morse: But well, and working with a lot of, you know, executives, I’ll say this. You know, the behaviors that work for you at work, right? So often work against you at home. Right. And so it’s it’s developing that awareness, you know, And now you’re you’re in this this new chapter where you’re building this new man who is like an emotional gangster and emotional ninja.
Bart Morse: Right? And Ed Mylett put out a social media video recently that I thought was so cool.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, Ed’s awesome, Ed’s awesome.
Bart Morse: And he tells a story of he was, you know, driving his car. Some guy pulled up to him and started kind of egging him on to race. And Ed was like, I’m not I’m not going to race this guy. But this guy kept kind of ribbing him and saying, Come on, man, you know, you know why you pussy or whatever you were saying, right?
Bart Morse: Really get getting Ed to try and take that bait and race him down the street. And Ed has clearly done the work on himself. And he said, Guys, listen. Years ago, I would have totally flipped and, you know, told this guy what I thought of him or, you know, maybe took taking the bait and raced. And he said, I did not let this guy impact my decisions.
Bart Morse: My decision making. I didn’t redline at all. I just sat there, listened to him, and didn’t let anything that he said impact how I was feeling. And he said it was a it’s a better feeling than any money in the bank than any, you know, award. I’ve received any new followers I got on social media. It was the best feeling.
Bart Morse: And that is what we’re chasing after in the lion’s den is to get guys to this place where in the past, maybe they felt criticized or they felt attacked. And now they’re in this place where they’re just like, I’m good and they’re able to just listen and respond and know that they’re good enough and that they have enough.
Bart Morse: And and they can be, you know, loving in spite of some of the bad feelings that they felt in the past.
Concluding Thoughts
Rod Khleif: And external influences. I mean, Ed could have broken the guy in half. I don’t know if you’ve seen he’s got bigger muscles than he’s got more muscles. Yeah, but, you know, you shared you shared a Bible verse with me that has really impacted me because my worst quality is my impatience, you know? And that’s that’s something that’s probably one of the biggest things I have to work on in life. Well, listen, brother, I appreciate you coming down here. We’ve we’ve been hanging out for the last couple of days, been in my guest house, we’ve had a blast. And it’s been a real treat for me because you’ve had such a huge, huge, huge impact on my life.
Rod Khleif: And, you know, I highly recommend if you feel like you could benefit from this text, BART 2723, four, five and check him out. Check out his video work and and start working on this because the world needs more masculine men. Okay. So anyway, thanks for coming down.
Bart Morse: Thank you, Rod. Yep. An amazing.
