Ep #477 – Joseph McCabe – Real Estate Entrepreneur at 23

From buying a ReMax franchise at 23 to opening a Title Company 6 months later, Joseph is an example of taking advantage of opportunities that present themselves.

  • Taking Massive Action
  • The abundance mentality
  • Ready, Fire Aim approach
  • Focus is power
  • Investing vs Managing
  • Don’t fall in love with deals
  • Income producing activities
  • Team building
  • The One Thing
  • Buying into the vision
  • Hire, align, or partner for your weaknesses
  • The importance of aligning with people

To find out more about our guest:


Full Transcript Below

Ep #477 – Joseph McCabe – Real Estate Entrepreneur at 23


Rod:  Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re going to enjoy the young man we’re interviewing today. His name is Joseph McCabe. And Joseph reminds me of me because he is absolutely a shiny penny guy. So, he has the largest REMax office in PA, New Jersey and I think Delaware, New York, he also is a CEO of a mortgage company, investing in insurance business, a title business, oh he is incredibly vertically integrated and so we’re gonna have a lot of fun on today’s conversation. And you know he’s also a vet which you know I want to thank him for and really making things happen for 27 years old. So, very impressive, Joseph, welcome to the show brother

Joseph: Thanks Rod. I appreciate it

Rod:  Yeah absolutely. So, you know talk a little bit about how you have all of that going on at your age and maybe how you got started. I mean I don’t know if you got started with a love for real estate or you know how that all manifested. So, take us back a little bit. Give us you know expand on how you got here

Joseph: Sure yeah. So, how I got started had nothing to do with real estate. I never knew anything about real estate and frankly I didn’t have any interest in it. My whole thing was I went into I started college at Penn State. I did two years there. It was kind of a lifelong dream. I was joining the army one way or another both grandpops were in and that was my thing. And two years into Penn State there, I switched my job and I said I wanted to be an agent with army CID. They said, well as weird as it sounds you can’t be an officer and be an army CID. You can only be senior enlisted. So, I ended up enlisting in the army after sophomore year going through my whole reserve training and when I got out, I started going back to college at Cabrini, Cabrini College local to Philly. And I immediately was going straight into the police department. I was just going lifelong career law enforcement

Rod:  Your dad was a cop, right?

Joseph: My dad was a cop too yep. So, I was like, I’m doing this. I had a start date and everything for the police department of I think it was December 30th of 2015. Same day as my birthday which was pretty funny

Rod:  Wow

Joseph: And maybe like the month prior to that I had gotten, I had met a Philadelphia police lieutenant who was friends with my dad, who owned his own brokerage and a small mom and pop shop. And we kind of

Rod:  Real estate brokerage?

Joseph: Yeah real estate brokerage. And so, we kind of teamed up. I was part-time selling at Keller Williams. I just got my real estate license for the hell of it. I was training people at LA Fitness and this guy was like, you should get your real estate license come work with me along with foster. So, I did that for a bit but I wasn’t making any money. But I did start to see at Keller Williams how you could integrate so many different things in the real estate industry and kind of they’re also closely related, title insurance, mortgage, homeowners insurance, home warranties, and the amount of kind of pre-tax money that you have to spare, that you could kind of put into different deals. So, I would say, within less than a year I decided I was buying my own franchise and opening my own title company. I just didn’t know how yet and next thing I knew, I owned a REMax. So, I gave up on the police department thing, bought a REMax, and just kind of started recruiting agents, opened up a title company, maybe six months later, a year after that I opened up

Rod:  Can I stop you for a second? How the hell did you buy a REMax at 23 years old? Where did you get the money? How’d you get…

Joseph: An American Express card

Rod:  Seriously?

Joseph: Yeah. I put it all in American Express. They had just given me the card and it was year percent interest for 12 months or something. So, the platinum card too, so it was more in fees than it cost me to buy the franchise and you know I was like, two real estate deals to pay it off. Well REMax requires you to have actual space. So, we did have to rent space 1,500 square feet somewhere. But yeah other than that I mean, we were just, I was like you know I didn’t know a lot of agents that broker didn’t know a lot of agents. He didn’t even have a big company, had four people. But I figured, if we just did more recruiting than everybody else and we just took more action than everybody else, we’d ultimately, we’d grow the business and that’s what we did

Rod:  Well Keller Williams is fantastic framework and beginning proving ground for you because you know what an incredible operation Gary Keller has put together. I interviewed his partner on my podcast, the educational, I’m drawing a blank on his name right here but anyway, yeah what a great framework for you to start from. So, I interrupted you, so you did the real estate, then you started the title, then what was that after that?

Joseph: And then so about a year and a half into that, into having a REMax franchise, REMax goes public and after they go public, they then announce that they have a mortgage franchise, Motto mortgage. And I was like, well this seems interesting. I mean at the time we only had five to ten agents and it was going to be pretty tough to make that profitable and be compliant and everything else. But we gave it a shot and the franchise wasn’t the best but I saw the tweaks that needed to be made to make it really good and have a mortgage franchise. So, we dropped that franchise, Motto Mortgage, and we ended up opening up Homefront Mortgage and that’s again, maybe two years into us owning a REMax. So that was fun. They threatened to sue us in federal court and all that stuff so I got some bruises early on. But we got through it. We opened up the franchise and I ended up getting on, this is pretty funny, I had no intention of taking the Mortgage Company National, zero, but I met Pat Hiban, I forget exactly how but he has his real estate rock stars

Rod:  To those who don’t know, Pat has a podcast and it’s geared towards real estate agents. I’ve had him on my show and he’s been on mine. I mean vice versa I’ve been on here a couple times actually so please sorry I just want to give some background

Joseph: Yeah no, you’re good. Yeah, it’s a good show and I’m in Gobundance with him now too. So that’s been a lot of fun and those guys have taught me a lot of stuff too but

Rod:  Okay stop. I gotta tell everybody what you said. So, Gobundance, guys, this is awesome mastermind that Pat I think is really ingrained in. He’s been trying to get me in it for years. I just can’t carve out the time but they travel all over the world, do all sorts of cool stuff. And it’s all about abundance really and it’s an incredible group of people, guys, I think it’s pretty much it’s just men but it’s incredible group. So please continue

Joseph: Yeah. So, I get on his show and later that night after it launches, I think it was like two months later, after the editing was done, I wake up to calls on my cell phone at like seven in the morning from I would say nine to 12 different brokers. And I’m returning these calls and I get to the second call and I’m like, shit what am I doing? I’m giving away all this information and they want to know how did you open a title company and a mortgage company. Now, to me that was just common sense because in the Philadelphia area, every real estate broker has a title company. While in the Midwest and the west coast, apparently, it’s not common sense and not everybody does that. So, I’m like well you know what actually, we have a JV platform. We actually open a mortgage company with you and a title company and by the end of that year, we had nine companies under license. Five of which are open now, two in California, one in Arizona, that actually just got approved, one in Virginia, one in Connecticut, Delaware, and then of course our local branches here in Philly. So, we got really lucky. Yeah, we got really lucky with that and Pat Hiban took us national on his show

Rod:  Oh, good for him.

Joseph: That was my first podcast experience.

Rod:  Wow. That’s awesome. Well, that’s awesome that you saw an opportunity you took advantage of it. And so, you’ve got the mortgage company, you’ve got the title company, you’ve got the real estate company, you also have a small all-state office and you’re 27 years old okay

Joseph: Yeah

Rod:  Yeah, I’m reading it, let alone saying, wow

Joseph: Well, that’s why I like being connected with those Gobundance guys I was like, it’s going to get to a point where you know, I’m 27, I’m single, I don’t have very many expenses. I live pretty cheaply and I just have my house so, and my dog, so I was like, well, I have a little bit of expendable income and there’s only so much I can pour into this office before it’s like you just gotta recruit. So, we this year we ended up dipping into in aviation business. We ended up buying uh two airplanes that were running to a flight school. We ended up buying a bar that the guy put on Facebook that he was closing up. And I was like, well is the real estate included? He sold us the whole bar for literally fifty percent of what it’s worth including the real estate, a healthcare business down in Houston, Texas, Home Healthcare. So, I guess it’s just to say that being around these guys in Gobundance and other guys that are really big into investing. It was kind of like you reinforced me again which I already knew, you don’t really have to know how to do anything you just kind of have to jump in and do it and sometimes it’s the only way you’re going to learn

Rod:  Well and you know you’ll have some seminars along the way. There’s no question

Joseph: Sure

Rod:  And you know the only, let me ask you this because the kind of hair on the back of my neck went up a little bit when you started talking about a bar and these non-vertically integrated businesses that you’re getting into. Are you managing those or do you have…

Joseph: oh no

Rod:  Okay

Joseph: Yeah so, same with the airplane like the airplane the whole the best way to explain that was I was going to get my pilot’s license. I had a guy early on who you know single family and multi-family is always funny right. There’s the guys who are in multifamily who are like you got to buy multi that’s the only way to go but then the single-family guys are complete opposite. They’re like no it’s gotta be single family. I’m in the middle. I just wanna make money. So, I’ll buy anything as long as it makes money and there’s a guy in Philly, Bob Mazur who kind of was one of the initial driving forces into getting me to consider real estate. He’s 92 now

Rod:  Wow

Joseph: And he’s still an active pilot and he was always saying you know you really got to get your pilot’s license. It’s a lot of fun. You can fly out of northeast Philly. So I finally went in and I’m talking to the guy who owns the flight school and I was like wow, it’s $15,000 for a private pilot for 30 hours? Seems kind of crazy and he’s like well we are short on planes you know and he jokes he’s like if you guys buy us a plane you know you don’t have to pay for the flight school. And I was like, oh really? Well, how much do you rent the plane for? He’s like, $40 an hour and I was like, all right cool. The next day we called him. We had lined up two planes were going to buy and they hunted some financed, these lenders 100 financed it for us back in march. The guy’s paying us 40 an hour with a minimum of 2,000 hrs a month which means we make a thousand profit and they manage it, they hand all the maintenance, they pay all the insurance, so everything is passive same with the bar you know we found a guy that he owns the Inlet and Wildwood Puri Garzone. So, he’s coming, it’s a huge bar in New Jersey, really popular. And so, he’s going to manage that for us. So, we’re really just investors in these other businesses but yeah

Rod:  So, guys, the reason I asked him this is because focus is power. And if you, and this is an ask-me-how-I-know thing, those of you who have been to my live events know I sell t-shirts that say ask me how I know because I’ve made every possible mistake you can make. And one of the mistakes was being, having too many plates spinning at the same time, too many businesses. At one time, I had you know I was flipping houses, I had frozen yogurt shops, I had vending carts, I had a carpet cleaning business and I just had way too many things happening. But I was managing them all. So, you’ve done it right. The way to do it is you bring in an operational partner that has equity and you let them manage it. And then you can have all these other businesses going, very impressive. Okay, so you know I’d like to dig in a little bit to how you think because you’ve given us two kind of little clues. You really, I think you have a knack for finding or seeing potential opportunity. Can you speak to that a little bit? Do you I mean you know where that comes from? or maybe speak to how you approach something or look at something that may cause you know these opportunities to pop up for you?

Joseph: I guess one of the biggest things, like one of the big entrepreneurial guys that I started to follow in the beginning before I had kind of found anybody else it was just kind of like I was looking for inspiration and I just opened REMax and starting a new business sucks. So, I found Grant Cardone. And I was like wow this is really reinforceable I mean he’s obviously super abrasive about certain things but but for most of it, it’s kind of like well you know what that all I have is the fact that I can keep going and keep recruiting and I can keep calling I can keep texting agents. And so I guess I just started to look at what other people had and it seemed like there were a lot of people that were just buying real estate or flipping houses and they were trying really hard to do that and then there were a lot of people that had a business that was providing them a lot of free cash flow that they were then investing in other opportunities or investing in real estate themselves. And I was like, that’s what I need to do you know I knew I was very controlling uh so I knew that in the real estate business, I had to be the guy. I had to be the manager. I had to be the hands-on guy that makes the final call. But on the real estate side, I didn’t want to do that. I didn’t want to manage my own properties. I didn’t even want to really look at the numbers I was very big on what’s that net number, I, you know am I comfortable paying off all the debt? Am I 100% sure that this puts me as almost zero risk as possible? So that was the other big thing. I don’t really fall in love with deals and I try to decentralize everything. I try to push everything off that I can and let those people

Rod:  What do you mean by that? What does that mean? Decentralized, push everything off, expand a little bit about that

Joseph: Almost like decentralized command in the sense that you know, I do have a partner on the one real estate deal who used to be a Philly cop and I let him make all decisions on those properties. And he comes to me if he needs to. So, I try to you know trust the process, trust but verify. I look at reports monthly but I try to step back and focus on what got me to where I am now which is growing the real estate business and you know sending deals to that title company and that mortgage company. And every now and then I look for deals and I just look for something that’s going to cash flow that isn’t going to put me in a tough spot later on basically. So, nothing that’s too risky. I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel like a tech company or anything like that

Rod:  No, no, good. Well, I know you’ve got 150 properties. There’s single and multi in there and uh and that’s fantastic. And you know I like some of the things you said, trust but verify. But you’ve leveraged. You’ve leveraged so that you’re focused on income producing activity for yourself and you’re not outside your wheelhouse which is really really brilliant and you’re you know that you got that got that memo at your age already so, and you’ve leaned on it sounds like you’ve leaned on a lot of mentors between this 92 year old guy and Gobundance team and those are all multi-millionaires. What an incredible you know story you’ve got now. So what’s next for you? What, you know what’s on the horizon? I think before we started recording you mentioned you’d like to get into more multifamily yes?

Joseph: Yeah. That’s the big thing. I mean multifamily makes so much sense you know if we didn’t need, and I look at it the same way as my real estate offices, I mean if we didn’t need four offices in the city, I wish we could just have one, one set of rent payments, one place to do maintenance and that’s how I look at multifamily. It’s like, right now we have 150 scattered properties that’s a lot of money to manage. There’s a lot of maintenance, every air conditioner is different you know that type of thing. Whereas with multifamily, you know it’s one roof, maybe one HVAC system, one property management person in-house you know every unit’s probably the same. So that’s something now where now that my partner, Carl and I have a little more credibility on the real estate side um and obviously such a large real estate brokerage, it’s a lot easier for us to market ourselves and we’re partnering with some people now on putting together some multifamily deals and pretty excited about that

Rod:  Yeah fantastic you know it’s interesting it almost sounded like deja vu as you were talking about you know single family being spread out everything being different. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard me interviewed about my story but that’s exactly how I crashed and burned in 2008 because I had 800 houses that were spread out over a four-hour stretch and just very very difficult to manage and maintenance cost a fortune because everything’s different. But if I send somebody to one of my apartment complexes, they’re in and out in an hour versus all day at one of these houses and you know and that was one of the big things that that hurt my cash flow and you know caused me to lose 50 million bucks in 2008. So, again very impressed that you got that memo already my friend because that’s absolutely right and you know you’ve got some property and you’re going to find that, if you had 150 unit complex, it would be, you know you’d spend an hour a week on a phone with your third-party property management company, that’d be it. That’d be your involvement in the deal. And so, you know versus all the headaches that you have with 150 different properties. So, let me ask you this, you have, you’ve got this big dream, how many agents do you have in your…

Joseph: We just hit about 140 now

Rod:  Wow. Guys, that’s huge. If you don’t know the real estate brokerage business, that’s a huge office. And so, tell me about how you put your team together okay because you know you can’t manage that by yourself. So, talk about how you put it together. What you look for you know maybe even drill down on a little bit of your recruiting and interviewing methodology just the sorts of things that you do in that vein, wherever you want to take it

Joseph: Yeah sure. So, like you said a lot of what I got was from Keller Williams and their platform. I wasn’t in the real estate business long until I bought my own franchise and the reason, I bought REMax was uh it was the cheapest one to buy and I had the most freedom. I could kind of do whatever I wanted. And I kind of knew that thing about Grant Cardone right. It was like just blanket it, be omnipresent, approach everybody. So that’s what I did. I recruited every agent I possibly could and I set it up in a way that even if that agent didn’t produce, the fees that they paid and everything else it was never a loss to us. It was never a loss for them to call me because the one thing that Keller did right is their split was decent, but they didn’t give leads. So, the training is great but if you don’t have leads, you didn’t have anything to apply it to. So, we cut our commission split in half like around here most Keller Williams are 70-30, we’re 85-15. Most KWs they’re caps between 25,000 and 30,000. We’re 15,000 and then we charge a monthly fee if you’re not producing. So, if you don’t do at least a deal a month, you have to pay the $237 a month which goes to corporate which is a hard cost to us. So, we’re never losing but the trade-off is, we’re going to actually give you all that training KW says they have. We have all that. We’re also going to give you leads. So, now day one you’re getting that training, you’re implementing those with a real buyer live you know we’re not wasting your time. We’re not just role playing. You’re out there screwing up for real and I’m there to help you save it. And our big thing was if we ran the real estate company lean enough and we ran the title company lean enough, the profits from title always outweigh real estate. I mean it’s insane. And then we threw mortgage in there. So, it was like, we’ll just we’ll make it a no-brainer for agents to come. You have leads, you have the best split, you have the training. We’ll even give you if you stay for two years ownership in title and mortgage, of course you have to buy in because of RESPA but we’ll give you the opportunity to do that in two years. So, we set up a pretty nice system and agents love it they come they stay and I actually did acquire another REMax too

Rod:  Oh okay

Joseph: Yeah so, I grew my agency to 70 and then I ended up purchasing affiliates. That was a great pitch for agents. Let me say that. It wasn’t what I was looking for but a great pitch for agents. What I was really was looking for was a little deeper than that and really, who are the key members on your team? Talk about that. You’ve got a partner? Do you have any operational people? I mean just talk about your team in general. I’m talking about a higher-level team not the agents

Joseph: Gotcha gotcha okay yeah so, each office the way we run it we have three uh real estate offices and then an office for title. Each real estate office can be run by one person and so I have one office manager in each location and everything is 100 digital. So, everything from you know commission, checks, to files, it’s all online. Never hand us paper. So, we were able once we made those changes, one person handles payroll and onboarding which is our biggest task, payroll onboarding at each office. And then there’s two people that handle conveyancing for all three offices. And so those are my concrete people and then my partner, Carl, who used to be, who owns all those properties with me and who recently resigned from the police department, he actually does recruiting for us full time. So, we knew that if our time is spent on anything else other than recruiting, then we’re not being the most effective, we’re not making the most money. So, that is our you know like Gary Keller, that’s the one thing

Rod:  Right

Joseph: I mean the one thing that we could be doing is recruiting and that’s what we focus on

Rod:  He’s referencing Gary Keller’s book called, “The One Thing”. It’s an awesome awesome book by the way and like I said, I interviewed his co-author and it’s going to be embarrassing that I can’t think of his name right now. But anyway, so, what do you, and the reason I’m hammering this team thing is multifamily is a team sport. And so, as you get into this business, you’re going to be building a team. You’re going to be aligning of course with outside team members like brokers, property managers, you know bankers, appraisers, and things of that nature but you’re also likely to align with an internal team, a partner or you know a sponsor or you know you’ll be raising equity, maybe joint venture. And so that’s kind of where I was going is to you know when you’re building this team of people maybe the managers for example, are there any traits that you look for? or you know what sort of due diligence do you do? What sort of questions might you ask? What are you looking for in these people that you’re giving so much responsibility too?

Joseph: I guess the biggest thing is um loyalty and then buying into the vision because if they don’t really understand where you’re taking it and the age of the company and kind of the how hard it is to start a business from scratch you know especially any type of real estate related business you know it’s not like a tech company where we make 60 million in one year you know you’re living off a little bit of rent every month or you know a split from an agent’s commission. Loyalty has probably been the biggest lifesaver for me, and then even more importantly knowing what you’re good at not good at and when you’re first starting a business, I guess you don’t have a choice you have to wear every single hat. But the second that I was able to start passing off that payroll and passing off that recruiting and having people help me with recruiting and trusting them, you have to put blind trust into people and that that was the first thing. And you may not always, and I didn’t many many times make the right hire. You probably won’t most of the time but you can try to inspire them and make sure that you know we started doing personality tests. So that I, who with my military background can be a little abrasive and hey go do this and you know it sounds a little bit like FU but really it’s just how I am. And I feel other people should be that way. So, we do a personality test more so I know how to interact with that person and so that I remember to remind them, hey you’re doing a great job or you know thanks for answering that email right away at midnight. So, the hiring thing you know that that’s probably the biggest piece in finding

Rod:  Let me circle back on a couple things you said because I want to hammer home. Number one, you know and you guys have heard me talk about this on the show time and time again, you’ve got to play to your strengths. You need to hire, align or partner for your weaknesses. And Joseph discovered that early on that you know you’re not, you don’t want to be doing accounting. You’re not doing payroll for God’s sakes. That’s not a good use of your time. So, leveraging all of those things and then the other thing is the whole personality testing. We do that as well in my company there’s so many different kinds, Myers Briggs, DISC Profile, all these things and you know it’s how you’re able to interact with people that are different than you are. And it’s so so powerful and even if you’re going to align in a partnership with someone in this multifamily business, I encourage you both to do a personality test to see how well aligned you are because if you’ve got two bulls in the china closet you know that doesn’t work you really need complimenting personality types and skill sets. You agree with me Joseph?

Joseph: A hundred percent. That’s where Carl and I are playing perfect. He’s the numbers guy. He can spreadsheet shit all day but without me, there wouldn’t be deals. So, we fit in perfectly and he’s 100% okay with the fact that you know I’m the aggressive one. I’m gonna go make a deal and then call you and say, yo, I made a deal and he’s okay with that because he knows at a high level that deal makes sense it makes money. Now he just has to figure out the rest he has to figure out the exit and everything else. So, we work really well together and cool story about Carl actually, I usually mention this, he actually, him and I went to grade school together my mom taught him he’s a year younger than me and all of his sisters and we reconnected right after, the year after I bought REMax. I set up this deal in Pittsburgh where the seller was going to finance 70 properties for us and it was time for me to exit. It was time for me to do the refi and I still didn’t have any money because I had just started REMax. I mean I had like probably five thousand dollars and he happens to message me on Instagram and say hey I just bought a house six months ago, my primary but I have 20 grand I’m looking to buy a duplex. So, if you ever need 20 grand you know if you find anything in the northeast, let me know. And I said, well you want to buy 70? And he’s like, what? And I was like, yeah let’s meet tomorrow. I was like you’re gonna have to trust me on this and you’re gonna have to wire finance of America seventy or twenty thousand dollars tomorrow and he did. And luckily, he reached out to me and that’s how we reconnected

Rod:  Wow that’s awesome. That’s cool. That’s not letting the grass grow man that’s massive freaking action. Now tell, do this, talk about a mistake that you made there’s got to be tons of them but I want to hear about it okay because you’re a fire ready aim guy like me. I’m, you know and then I then I then it gets cleaned up later. So, tell me about you got a mistake and maybe the lesson learned

Joseph: I would say the biggest thing was um falling in love with the deal but not I don’t just mean real estate I mean falling in love with a real estate agent or any person could bring to your life without maybe thinking it through or making sure that they really are a good fit for you. And so that first partner, who I haven’t mentioned since the lieutenant on Philly’s police department you know that guy’s making 120 grand a year and he’s been doing that for 30 some years. He is happy. He is not interested in being worth 10 million dollars. He’s not interested in growing 140 agents. But you know he was very comfortable and you know I made that mistake of really not digging into and I didn’t know to do it at the time, dig into what do, what would that potential partner agent want in the future because it was a messy exit getting him out of my title company, my real estate company, him taking 10 agents with him you know that was a mess. It was a lesson I had to learn and thank god I learned it in the first six months of the business but just make sure that you align with people. That is probably more important than anything else and the other big piece

Rod:  Sorry sorry sorry you said several things. The alignment, I want you to drill down on the alignment. But you also said you lossed over something really fast as if what I’m hearing is that you need to know what they want for the future because you know the comfort zone is a warm place but nothing freaking grows there. And he was comfortable and he didn’t want to grow yes?

Joseph: Sure. Yeah exactly. Yeah he was totally comfortable and you know he would come in the office at 3 pm when I’ve been there since 8am in the latest and I work until 11pm you know and he’s like yeah what are you working so hard for? Like because I don’t have a salary you know

Rod:  Right. Yeah check out their work ethic guys and I’ve had partnerships go south and it’s always been work ethic you know who do you, just like you Joseph who do you think put in the most time and that gets frustrating you know it builds dissonance and you’re just not happy after a while because you’re killing yourself and they’re skating. So, you know please continue your thought, what was the other thing you were going to say

Joseph: I was going to say two more things. The other thing that would have been pretty helpful with dealing with a partner like that is if I had known myself better and known you know which I know now. I can partner with people who aren’t going to work as hard as me because I already know that’s going to be the case. I already know that I’m getting up at six and I’m going to bed at 2am. I already know that that’s me um so I no longer get mad at people that don’t work as hard. I now realize that normal humans take vacations and they take breaks and they take naps. I still don’t understand it but I’m more cognizant of that. So, you know be fair to other people and realize that no one’s ever going to do it as good as you and no one’s, you’re never going to be able to hire someone that can fully replace you. But human capital is important and then respecting them uh you know throughout that process is important too.

Rod:  I’m going to only disagree with one thing you’ve said this entire interview and that was no one’s going to do it as good as you. And I promise you as you get long of truth like me, you’re going to recognize that there are people out there that can actually do it better than you. But it takes a while because you’re a control freak like me I get it. Yeah, for you to get that memo but I promise you, you will and you know you’ll have your core strengths and your things that you’re fantastic at and as it relates to that yes, maybe you will not encounter someone that does it better than you but anyway. Well listen buddy, it’s been a lot of fun. It’s been a treat for me. You’re a real inspiration and I hope guys, I hope you’re inspired by this as well. This is not my normal interview with a you know a multifamily you know rock star with thousands of units. But, very impressed and inspired and I hope you are as well by his story and the value that he’s added. I appreciate you being on the show my friend

Joseph: Yeah thanks Rod. I’m glad I was able to come on

Rod:  You bet