Prepping For The Coming Depression

Full Transcript Below

Intro
Hi. My name is Rod Khleif, and I’m the host of “The Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing” podcast. And every week, I interview Multifamily Rock Stars and we talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the “Like” and “Subscribe” buttons to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it.

Rod
Welcome to another edition of How to Build a Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled you’re here. And I’ve got a real treat for you today. It’s a gentleman named Sterling White who I interviewed, gosh, four or five years ago when he had a partner and– Jacob, and they’re no longer partners, but it’s all amicable and all that. But he’s on his own now, and he’s been involved in over 1200 doors. He sold a lot of his assets recently and getting ready for what’s coming like I am. So we’re going to have some fun today. Welcome back, brother.

Sterling
Man, it is so great to see you, Rod. It’s definitely has been a while. You’re looking great–

Rod
Thank you.

Sterling
Looking sharp. I see the beard and the stubble that’s going on.

Rod
Yeah, I’m a lot grayer than I used to be but, you know, other than that, life is grand but it’s good to see you.

Sterling
From wisdom.

Rod
Right. We’ll call it that. We won’t call it the stress that really it is. But, no, life is good, brother. And it’s great to see you and great to see how successful you are. And I’ve been, you know, a little fly on the wall for a lot of stuff that you’ve been doing, you know, through social media. Social media is a beautiful thing, but, you know, why don’t you bring us up to speed a little bit on what you’ve been up to, and then we’ll dig into some fun topics.

Sterling
So I’d say is, one, I no longer live in Indianapolis. I actually moved out here to Houston, Texas.

Rod
Okay.

Sterling
So, it’s been a great experience. The only disappointing thing that I’ve experienced is they say everything is bigger here, but the toilet is the same size as the ones back home. So I think I just have a defective toilet. I have to get that changed out. And went through the what do you call that, the 2020 crisis that we had with the sickness and all that. So through that, that’s where I actually had one of my biggest breakthroughs and where I made the decision to move. So, there’s that, and then also over the years have divested a lot of the holdings and sold and really getting some good– was it some sales prices from that? And getting ready and prepping for the downturn that I believe we’re going to experience here soon.

Rod
Yes, no question. Well, for those of you that haven’t been to one of my boot camps, you know, I use Sterling and his old partner Jacob, great guys, as an example of doing what other people aren’t willing to do. And I actually flashed their picture up on the screen in my boot camps because–

Sterling
And it’s when I had hair, too, Rod. That’s one thing also.

Rod
Yeah. Hair back then. Okay, well, see, we’re getting older, man. But, you know, and I talk about if you’re willing to do what other people aren’t, you’ll always be a success. And, you know, I use my own example of knocking on doors of people that were in foreclosure and buying hundreds of houses that way back in the day and helping people. And then I use Sterling and Jacob as an example of, you know, I remember you guys drove for dollars to find a 50-unit or a 48-unit, and then you actually called for rent ads on Craigslist and say, hey, do you want to sell instead of rent? And found a 40 or 58-unit at that same time. I remember when I interviewed you guys, you just closed on one. You had one under contract. And so, you know, you guys were the poster child. I mean, I think if I recall, you found one of the owners through a child on Facebook or something like that.

Rod
Yes. Living to the DM. The daughter of the owner.

Rod
Yeah, exactly.

Sterling
I had so much trouble getting in touch with them, so I kept it strictly business, everyone, by sliding into the DM and then ended up getting their contact. [inaudible]

Rod
So, yeah. You’ve inspired a lot of people to get off their butts and do what other people that you’re not even aware of, to get off their butts and do what other people aren’t willing to do to be a success. So, you know, well, let’s have some fun with some different topics. You know you like– let’s talk about where we are in the market cycle right now. We talked about it briefly before we started recording. You know, I’m very bearish right now. I think the soup is going to hit the fan. I think there’s going to be an incredible opportunity. And, you know, like I was telling you, I was hiding under a rock in 2009, and that will definitely not be the case now, but I’d love to get your thoughts.

Sterling
Yeah. Were you literally hiding under a rock, Rod? I don’t think–

Rod
No. Figuratively hiding under a rock–

Sterling
Fair enough.

Rod
Because I was miserable because I thought I was set for life. And, you know, I lost $50 million back then, but, you know, it’s all good.

Sterling
Yeah. And I would say exactly what you mentioned is just looking at the conversations that I’m having with other investors. And I’ll just give you a prime example is this was the third deal I’ve ever acquired. This was an 80-unit, Indianapolis. Bought it in 2018 for 3.35 million. Several years after that, sold it for $5 million. Rod, I’ll tell you now, I have no idea how that person is going to make that deal work.

Rod
Yeah. Right.

Sterling
So those are the ones that I start to see coming up and it’s the same with the current deal I have under contract that selling is I just don’t know how people are going to make those work. And I believe they’re making the same mistake that I made on my second deal and just overpaid for it and didn’t raise enough money to take care of the renovations. And shortly after that, it just didn’t end up working out and ended up coming to bite me. Luckily, ended up selling it and did good but that was when things were heating up in the market [inaudible].

Rod
But you had some stress.

Sterling
Yes.

Rod
You had some sleepless nights. And, no, there’s no question in my mind. You know, examples like you just– you know, will be in best and final on a deal, and we’re like it’s sold for– it traded for what? How the hell– do they not have any debt? You know, or are they promising any returns at all?

Sterling
Exactly.

Rod
And so a lot of skinny deals, not enough money raised, and then we won’t even talk about bridge debt, you know. And people that– you know, because Fannie and Freddie dropped their loan to value rates. Everybody was doing bridge debt to get the higher loan to value, to get the returns they wanted, and that is some onerous debt, you know, adjustable rate. In fact, they didn’t even insist on caps, you know, a year or two ago. Now, of course, in the last year, they have. But, you know, a lot of bridge debt that I think is going to be in, you know, there’s going to be stuff going into receivership.

Sterling
Can you educate me a little bit more? Because I’ve been hearing more and more of that. Is it essentially, that people are just putting more debt onto the property–

Rod
So they borrow more money to do the deal, to get the returns up. You know, like we’ve got a deal under contract right now–

Sterling
So they’ll go conventional on one part of the longer-term debt, and then they’ll bring in [inaudible]

Rod
No, no. no. They do bridge debt. That’s their debt stack is bridge. Okay? But, you know, they were getting, shoot, 75% loan to cost in 80% in some cases, you know, including CapEx, you know, and didn’t calculate exit caps properly. I mean, you know, cap rates are going up, guys, and they’re going to start going up fairly drastically. If you look at a chart of what happened to cap rates in ’08, and ’09, it’s significant. And, you know, if they didn’t calculate a decent exit cap for their refinance, they’re screwed. They’re not going to be able to refi unless they put a lot of money in. You know, if they didn’t get a rate cap and that adjustable rate goes up, they could be screwed, and they’re going to have real cash flow issues. So, you know, I think we’re going to see a lot of bridge debt get really ugly, and I think it’s going to be an opportunity. So, you know, that’s what I think there. But, you know, again, you know, Trump was just quoted as saying “it’s going to be a depression”. Love him or hate him, he’s been right a lot.

Sterling
You probably triggered a couple of people by saying that to anybody. Yeah, you know how it goes. Yeah.

Rod
Yeah. You know what, I don’t care. If that pissed you off, just stop listening to me, please, because it’s not a political statement. It’s a–you know I’m hearing it from a lot of people that it’s going to be bigger than people think. You know, Kiyosaki, you know, “Rich Dad Poor Dad” says “it’s going to be bigger than ’08 or ’09”, but, you know, his MO is, you know, doom and gloom. That’s how they get people–

Sterling
He said that over that– I believe he said every year it’s going to be–

Rod
Yeah, he said that every year for ten years. But listen, you know, we’re talking about this before we started recording and, you know, we just talked like the CPI index just came out and it’s looking good. Inflation is supposed to be going down. But I got to tell you, this feels like ’06 and ’07 to me. And this is what I told Sterling before I started recording and it’s a gut feel thing. Now, I’m wrong all the time. My kids love to say, are you tired of being wrong? I’m wrong all the time. But I got to tell you, I do think opportunity is coming and I’m in a lot of cash. I would encourage you all listening to get in a lot of cash or have access to cash. And, you know, one of the things I taught at my boot camp, for example, was, you know, pre-framing investors so they’re not fearful of what’s coming. Let’s talk about that next. I know you’ve raised a good amount of money, I think about what, 10 million or more? You’ve raised yourself–

Sterling
Correct. 10.8 million by [inaudible] yeah.

Rod
Fantastic. So let’s talk about– you know, because in my opinion, that’s what this is, an opinion. I think finding the deals is not going to be the issue as it’s been over the last few years. It’s going to be finding the money. And, I mean, we won’t even talk about the debt markets right now. The debt markets are just insane right now. It’s very, very difficult to get decent debt right now. We’ve got an asset in Nashville under contract, 145 doors and we’re putting 60% loan to value, Freddie Mac fixed rate, long term, decent interest rate debt on there and we still have great returns and we’re, you know, the 50/50 split on and it’s still fantastic returns, which is unusual. You know, most people have to, you know, change the splits to make the returns, you know, work and we don’t. And by the way, if you’re credited, text the word “partner” to “72345” if you hear this, it may still be some room in it, but it’s a screaming deal. Beautiful asset. But anyway, the point is, you know, we had to do a 60% loan to value to get the debt that we want. I wasn’t putting bridge debt on it, no freaking way. I want a fixed rate, you know, because here’s an example of a bad day and I kind of alluded–

Sterling
And what was the term on that too, Rod? Do you happen to know?

Rod
Ten years, five-year IO, you know, fantastic debt. I think there’s going to be opportunity assumptions moving forward as well because there are some decent interest rates out there, you know, and the rates have gone up, significantly. And so, I think there’s going to be some opportunity there and of course, you know, the operators that are selling those are going to know that. But I think there’s an opportunity to assume that. But like I said, I do believe that it’s going to be raising the money that’s going to be more– I’m already hearing it. You know, I heard it at my Multifamily Boardroom Mastermind. I heard it at a big event I went to in the Carolinas. You know, things have slowed down.

Sterling
I’ve also heard it from– because I’m in the entrepreneur space and I’m part of those organizations. And people in the startup world are having difficulty raising money due to the economic environment that we’re in. So. it’s very similar.

Rod
People are holding on to cash. They’re fearful, okay?

Sterling
Yes.

Rod
And you’ve got to be able to convince them that, you know, I mean, inflation has taken, what, 9%? We’ll see if the CPI is accurate. But it was 9%. You know, you’re losing 10% of your money a year. That’s pretty significant, right? And so, you know, real estate is without question, the best hedge on the planet against that. So, you know, there’s an additional educational component, in my view, to what’s coming. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on raising money in this environment.

Sterling
So myself, personally, I haven’t gone through this cycle and raised money during these times. And so I would say it’s just a way to set yourself up is just the path that I’m currently taking is to continue trust building. So those investors that you’ve previously worked with and you’ve established a relationship, you’ve already provided good stable returns to them consistently, those will be the ones you can simply re-tap into. So, myself is I haven’t been able to acquire any deals over here because I’ve been selling. But my partner Jacob, for instance, is he’s continually raising money. And it’s just from the investor network that we had already built and already established.

Rod
Good. Okay, so existing investor base. So, any– you know, let’s drill down on raising money a little bit more. So you’re building trust. Just elaborate a little more if you’ve got any other thoughts on how, you know, you do that. I know that you’ve got a podcast, by the way, what’s the name of your podcast?

Sterling
Yeah. So it’s “The Real Estate Experience”.

Rod
“The Real Estate Experience”, okay. And so, certainly, that has played a role, I would guess, in your ability to raise money. Yes?

Sterling
Yeah. I’d say– and this is the strategy that I use, is content marketing. And I got this from the book, “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook” by Gary Vaynerchuk. And he talks about– and I’ve heard you say this before, Rod, and several times is giving a value. So, in essence, the jabs are the giving of the value. And the right hook is, hey, this is my deal that I have upcoming. Would you like to invest in it? A lot of times you don’t even have to go for the right hook because you’ve created so much value.

Rod
Right.

Sterling
So the path that I took was being a contributor on BiggerPockets, all the blogs, being in the forums, and then I started to transition to being on others’ podcasts and then having my own podcast. So it was content marketing and inbound marketing to where you put the content out, people come into your ecosystem or funnel, as you would say, and you build a relationship from there because people do business with who they like, know, and trust.

Rod
Yeah, like, know, and trust. Those are the operative words, guys. Yeah, I’m actually creating– it’s kind of interesting. I know, you know, you talk about branding and so on and so forth and creating reach. And I’m actually doing a course. I literally– in fact, I have a manual right here on my desk to print. I’m shooting this course Friday, and so I’ve got this, I’m going to go through it with my team and we’re shooting it on Friday about creating reach through social media. You know because as you know, I’ve got a pretty significant podcast where 14 million downloads and the largest Multifamily Facebook group, really, I think in the world, 46,000 people, and so on and so forth. And so, I’ve got a little bit of credibility there. And creating reach is such a key component in this business, in my view, unless you’re going to do it one on one, face to face in groups. You know, there’s somebody wants–

Sterling
Which isn’t scalable.

Rod
Right. It isn’t. Not if you really want to get big. And so, you know, and you don’t need 14 million freaking downloads. You need, you know, maybe a few hundred people listening to you. And just to kind of summarize in a very quickly what you want to focus on is two things. Add value, like you said. You’ve heard me say it. I got it from someone else. I got it from Tony Robbins, actually. Add value until it hurts and be freaking consistent. That’s it. That’s what you need to do. Don’t put out crap. Put out value. And the beautiful thing about this world that we live in and social media is so extraordinary. I mean, I’m on TikTok and we’re killing it on TikTok. So, you know, the–

Sterling
But also I want to interject real quick is that the key thing that you also mentioned was consistency.

Rod
Right.

Sterling
Because the thing is if you’re not consistent and it’s always been this back and forth between what is it better, quality or quantity? I would say quantity because in order to get to the quality, a lot of times you got to do the quantity to get the feedback, to make the changes. And then also the consistency is you’re competing not just with other investors out there, you’re competing with a lot of the media that’s out there, a lot of the negative news that has people’s attention.

Rod
Right.

Sterling
So that’s also what you have to do from a consistency standpoint. And then as we know, people’s attention spans are getting smaller and smaller. So that’s also what it helps from consistency and just staying on top of their radar.

Rod
Yeah, that’s the only way to do it. And, you know, we’re all over social media and trying to, you know, push people to the podcast and, you know, get them engaged and add as much value as we possibly can. And that’s the secret recipe here, guys. In fact, you know, I remember when I first started my podcast, I used to say, I’ll never sell you anything. If you listen to early episodes because I never plan to, you know. If you want to make God laugh, you tell him your plans. And we hit a million downloads. Like, all right, probably ought to do something with this. And then I wrote a book and gave it away for free. I still didn’t have anything to sell. And then finally enough people asked me for it. I started creating stuff. Now, I’m a liar because, you know, I sell everything. We got courses, coaching, and, you know, my students are somewhere in the 70,000 to 90,000 units owned range that we know of. And I’ve only been teaching, what, you know, less than five years, so I’m really proud of that. But, yeah, so, building relationships, creating a brand– go ahead.

Sterling
I was just going to mention that path you took is a great blueprint to have is all of that value upfront versus if someone’s more in a scarcity mindset or they need the money or they need to– they have a deal right there, and they start trying to push content to push people to that, that’ll– what is it, deter people away.

Rod
That’s right.

Sterling
But if you put all of that upfront and then at a later point go for the ads, you’ve created so much value and it’s the essence, like a–

Rod
[inaudible]

Sterling
Exactly. Yes.

Rod
Yeah, that’s what– I’m really glad you brought that up. I kind of said it, but I didn’t hammer it home like you just did, which is to focus on the freaking value. Don’t have anything to sell. Don’t ask for anything, just value, value, value. And I mean, I literally did that for over maybe I have to think of– my memory is horrible, but definitely over a year, maybe even over two years before I actually started having something to sell. And again, it wasn’t by design. I really, truly wasn’t planning on selling anything. I just, you know, wanted to share my message about what I lost and why multifamily is better than single-family. And then I knew I hated asking for money and I thought it’d be a great, you know, mechanism to raise money for these commercial deals. And of course, it is. So raising capital, we talked about that. Know, like, and trust. So let’s talk about, you know, you transitioned from single-family to multifamily. Yes?

Sterling
Yes.

Rod
Was there an epiphany there? Was there like a, okay, now I freaking get it moment? Just talk about that transition.

Sterling
So for that is– and Rod, you’ve experienced this too, with being in the single-family home space, that it was very difficult to scale that. So having that many single-family with Jacob, it was 150 that we had, close to that, in about 120 in Indianapolis and about 30 or so in Daytona, Ohio. And this wasn’t a portfolio of 150 single families. That would have been nice or not so nice. But is– so this was a lot of one-offs. So it was a lot of volume and deals to look at in order to get that one. And then also we were self-managing. And I remember– this is another part where I don’t have my hair, is that managing that many properties and also people, I’m not a manager of people. I don’t enjoy it at all. And a lot of that ended up coming up to me, and the shift was made to multifamily because it’s just more scalable and less moving parts.

Rod
Did you find that it hurt your cash flow as well, being spread out like that? Did you see that in your portfolio? Because I definitely– you know, it took me 2000 friggin houses to get the memo. It only took you 150. So you’re much smarter than I am. But, you know, we didn’t really– I was at a 30% loan to value in 2006, and I still didn’t cash flow that great, okay, because it was so spread out, so logistically challenging. You know, and I tell people, you know, if I send someone to one of my apartment complexes, you know, we can stockpile parts. Everything’s the same. And they’re in and out in an hour. If I send someone to a house, they had to go see what’s wrong, go find a Home Depot or Lowe’s, and go back and forth a few times. And so what took an hour at one of my apartment complexes to call day at one of my 800 houses, which is really what killed the cash flow. So I’m assuming– you’re nodding. I’m assuming you had similar issues as well with the single-family portfolio.

Sterling
Yeah, it’s just logistics and can you still hear me on your side Rod, too?

Rod
Yeah.

Sterling
All right, perfect.

Rod
Yeah.

Sterling
It was just the logistics and yeah, so I would agree with that.

Rod
Okay.

Sterling
It looked good on paper, but the actual execution was the difficult part.

Rod
Right. So again, did you have, like, an epiphany moment and you’re like, you and Jacob, or like, okay, enough is enough, or what happened?

Sterling
I would say the epiphany moment– I wouldn’t say it was just this one moment that happened. It was really a sum total of little moments and then some medium-type moments. And then it was like, okay, let’s go ahead and now make this shift. I think it’s when shortly after we expanded to date in Ohio and we started buying single families there, that’s where I would say do you say the tree falls on the horse or break the back or how did that [inaudible] goes? That’s what it was.

Rod
Right. That was a straw that broke the camel’s back. Got it.

Sterling
There we go.

Rod
Yeah, got it. No, I feel you, man. You know, when they’re out of town like that, they become stepchildren, and it’s just a freaking nightmare. I had that in Memphis, and I don’t even want to fly over Memphis airspace. If you live in Memphis, I’m sorry, but I had a bad experience in Memphis. I always ask in my boot camp, anybody here from Memphis? And if nobody raises their hand, then I’m like, okay, well, let me tell you how it is. It was ugly. But anyway, So, you know, I know that you do a lot of– well, you know what? Let’s shift the philosophy for a minute. You mentioned that you know, you’re evolving, which is a beautiful thing, especially at your young age. I mean, you’re evolving is what I got from our little chat right before we started recording. Can you elaborate on really where you wanted to go with that?

Sterling
Yeah, I’d say is taking a look in– and one of the things we mentioned offline is just viewing the world differently. And there’s Stoicism, there’s Taoism, there’s Pragmatism, all these different philosophies that are out there. And through Stoicism as an example, it talks about accepting the things that you can control and the things that you can’t control. And so let’s say Rod has a bad day. We’re on this podcast, he cusses me out. There’s– I mean, the only thing that I can’t control, I can’t control that Rod did that, but I can control how I respond to that. So it’s that example and then also seeing the world for how it is and not where I believe it should be. There are going to be tons of things out there that are unfair. I could use an excuse– let’s say, I was born in section eight housing as an example, born on welfare. I could use that. I was dealt lemons you would say as many people would view that. But I decided to make lemonade out of it. So it’s just those different things. And then also from the book, “The Four Agreements”, one of the agreements is to not take anything personal.

Rod
By the way, guys, “The Four Agreements”, by Miguel Ruiz is a fantastic book, if you haven’t read it.

Sterling
Yes.

Rod
So you don’t take anything personally. I love it. Yeah, that is absolutely one of the four. You know you said accepting. And I actually just did an Own Your Power clip this week on accepting. The power of accepting. And really accepting yourself. And then accepting your environment. And, no, I love the stoicism examples. I only listen to two podcasts. One is Joe Rogan’s. The other one is Tim Ferriss’s. Tim talks a lot about Stoicism. You know, I get excited about my podcast getting 14 million. I think he does that a week. You know, it’s an enormous podcast. And while I’m on that topic, let me mention something else. You know, I talk about the importance of focus as it relates, especially right now in what’s coming. To your focus on the positive and not focused on the news and all the crap that they put out, which is really all it is anymore, but really bringing in the good stuff, standing guard at the door of your mind and how important focus is. And, you know, I listened to Tim’s podcast and, you know, he interviews the best of the best in the world, you know, the best athletes, Michael Phelps and, you know, NFL players, NBA players, actors like, you know, Arnold and Jamie Foxx and Ed Norton and Hugh Jackman and–

Sterling
Jamie Foxx has got some great stories, by the way. So, yeah, I did listen to his podcast.

Rod
Yeah, and, you know, billionaires like Ray Dalio and other heads of– I mean, he had Zuckerberg on them. I mean, he gets the biggest names on the planet on there. And I started to hear a pattern. And that is most of them meditate. And what does meditation enhance? Focus, right? Focus is critical, guys, especially in what’s coming. You got to, you know, keep– just limit the crap that’s out there on the media. Bring in the good stuff because you know, you’re a leader. You wouldn’t be listening or watching this podcast if you were a leader and what’s coming, the world is going to need leaders. And so focus is critical.

Sterling
And I want to comment on that because I was just on the podcast earlier and the guy asked me one of my habits because he saw as I was talking, one of the things that came up is that I don’t check my phone or anything before noon. So that’s one thing. And then also I don’t have my notification. So if someone calls is which I had missed the call earlier, is that I have these sensors on to allow me to focus. I don’t check emails throughout the day.

Rod
Wow.

Sterling
I only put a specific set time, but anything before noon, no form of social media. Only check social media once a day. And then also I don’t check my phone or emails or anything before noon.

Rod
Wow.

Sterling
My phone is in a whole another room.

Rod
That’s disciplined, brother. I don’t think I could do that. But that’s really impressive. Yeah. Actually, I was running late today, guys, and my team is like, we tried to call– I’m ten minutes late. We tried to call him and text him and he didn’t answer. And so I saw you come on. I came on and said, hey, I need a few more minutes. But no, that’s really impressive, man. I couldn’t do it. I’m just going to tell you right now, I’m so glued to this damn thing. But I’m pretty effective. So, you know, I’m still able to get things done. But yeah, so, you know, right now in your– I mean, you’re almost have sold all your assets. So you’re like getting ready, you’re getting in cash. You’re getting ready to capitalize on what’s coming.

Sterling
Yeah. This deal that I’m under contract on, and this is the story in itself is that the buyer had it was set to close at the end of July. It was a 1031 buyer, at 60-day closing. Towards the end of July, they had to push the closing. Guess what happened two weeks later?

Rod
Oh, I know what happened.

Sterling
A fire.

Rod
Oh, a fire. Oh, no. I thought it was going to be an economic conditions. Okay.

Sterling
Yeah. So there still is that too, but is that eight of the units ended up going down and then now, we’re going back and forth with the insurance company because it’s going to be about a million dollars of a payout they mentioned they were going to do. But if we sell the– that would be in third. So up front during the construction process and then after it’s done. But if we sell the property, the last ones won’t go through. So now we’re negotiating to see if we can at least get 70% to 75% of that $1 million. And then we have to go to the buyer to see if they’re willing now to still go through with the deal.

Rod
Interesting. Yeah. Well, you know, that’s business, that’s real estate.

Sterling
Exactly.

Rod
That stuff happens. And, you know, luckily, you’re not under the gun and, you know, you don’t have to sell. So, you know, there is that.

Sterling
And that just goes back to the example that I was mentioning, is that accepting the things that you can control and can’t control, I could have threw a big fist and all that. I just simply said, Jacob, are the people there okay, that was good. And then, okay, we got to move on.

Rod
Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. So the question I was going to ask you, I have a couple more questions. Do you still have a team now, or is it just you right now, as you’re getting ready for what’s coming? Just talk about team a little bit, because I know you and Jacob were a fantastic team. By the way, guys, they were a great example. Also, that I see super successful is someone that’s analytical with someone that’s outgoing.

Sterling
Yeah. You could see it in person.

Rod
You know, Jacob is super analytical. He’s created his own software. He’s got his own investor portal. You know, just super successful. Sterling is outgoing, squared. So, you know, I just saw so many–

Sterling
I never heard squared before.

Rod
Yeah, well, it’s true. I’ve seen so many very successful relationships like that. When people are playing to their strengths, man, success is inevitable because you love what you do. You’ve got passion. You can influence if you’re playing to your strengths. And that’s the beautiful thing about this business, is there are so many different hats you can wear. You can be the outgoing person building the relationships with brokers, investors, and so on and so forth. You can be the analytical person that does the underwriting. You can be the process person you know that’s got business management or project management or construction experience doing the asset management. There are a lot of places you can fit your hats. So, back to my question. Where are you at with team right now?

Sterling
Yeah, so with the team, it’s still the on-site team from the property that’s in Indianapolis, but more so it’s myself, I’ve got several VA’s, but it’s not– formerly, so I had a whole acquisitions army that was doing the direct owner approach.

Rod
Right.

Sterling
So it’s pretty much slimmed down significantly across the board.

Rod
Got it. Okay. And your VA, are they in the Philippines or Latin America?

Sterling
In the Philippines.

Rod
Philippines. Okay.

Rod
I’ve been really good luck in Latin America. Same time zone. You know, I had eight VA’s in the Philippines at one time. Six of them, I was paying $1.93 an hour each, and they were happy to get it, full time and spoke English. So I’ve had six people for under $12 an hour. True story.

Sterling
What site do you use for Latin America? Is it Upwork or is there a way to go direct?

Rod
No, I think it’s remote.co, but if you remind me, I’ll have my team give it to you. I think it’s remote.co, but, yeah. Okay. Love it. And lastly, what’s your driver right now, brother? What is the why? What’s making this you know, why are you such a success? Talk about that for a moment.

Sterling
I’d say mostly is this goes back to my childhood, and actually I haven’t shared this with many people. And I’ve been sharing more about it is that as I was growing up with a single mother and that one day, my mom– or I would say at one moment, my mom was upbeat, giddy, all that happiest person you could be. And however, the next minute, a completely different side of her, and she would change. So as a kid growing up in that environment to the only person that is there as your, what is it, the adult figure, I was walking on eggshells. I was constantly in fear of flight. So I just want to be an ideal and a message to kids who grow up in that type of environment, growing up in the hood, but also having that type of relationship with their parents is that, hey, I was still able to make something out of myself through that trauma that I experienced. And this is the path that I ended up taking. So I really want to be an ideal and a message for those people. And then also, is there that same person, my mother, and love her to death, because there are some pros, too.

Rod
Right.

Sterling
But she was also the person I heard on a daily basis that told me I wouldn’t amount to anything.

Rod
Oh, ouch.

Sterling
So I also use that as fuel as well. That’s a–

Rod
Good for you. Good for you. And some people that destroys. Some people use it as fuel like you said. Life is about meaning, guys. You choose the meaning you put on something, and it can be a positive meaning that pushes you, or it can be a meaning that debilitates you. And, you know, when I lost $50 million, I would never have met my wife if it hadn’t happened. And that’s my meaning. And, my God, I’d give it all up again for her. You know, besides being a supermodel, beautiful on the outside, she’s even more beautiful on the inside. So, you know, Rod is a lucky guy. And again, so life is about meaning. So if you have something negative like I’ve experienced, like everybody experienced something negative, just decide what the meaning is going to be and does that meaning empower you. And you can absolutely rewrite history that way. Listen, brother, I appreciate you coming on the show. It’s been a real treat to see you. And again, it’s Sonder Investment Company. And the– what is it? The Real Estate Experiment? What is the name of your podcast?

Sterling
“The Real Estate Experience”. But I want to mention one little small detail, too.

Rod
Please.

Sterling
Is that there is a story, Earl Nightingale, he talks about is there are two people and they’re asking is, why did you take this path in life? And the two brothers, why did you take this path?

Rod
Right.

Sterling
Why did you take this path?

Rod
And the answer is the same?

Sterling
Exactly.

Rod
I know that story. Yeah. The story is the guy had a father that was in jail.

Sterling
Yes.

Rod
And one of the sons ended up in jail, and the other son ended up with the business, in the software business. I know the story very well. And they asked him the question, why did you end up like this? And it’s the same answer, with a father like that, how else could I have ended up?

Sterling
Yes. Exactly.

Rod
Great example, brother. Thank you for sharing that. I had not shared that publicly. That’s a great example. Well, listen, buddy, great to see you, man, and great to hear all your success. And, you know, if you’re ever now my way, of course, you know, Mi Casa Su Casa, would love to see you.

Sterling
Yes. And Tell Tiff I say hello as well.

Rod
We’ll do, brother. Take care, man. See you.

Outro
Rod, I know a lot of our listeners are wanting to take their multifamily investing business to the next level. Now, I know you’ve been hard at work helping our Warrior students do just that using our “ACT” methodology, which is Awareness, Close, and Transform. Can you explain to the listeners how they can get our help?

Rod
You bet. Guys, we’ve been going non-stop for three years, building an amazing community of like-minded people, and our coaching students which we call our Warriors, have had extraordinary results. They’ve purchased thousands and thousands of units, and last year we did over 1000 units with our students. And we’re looking to grow this group and take it to the next level. We’re looking for people who want to follow a proven framework that’s really step by step and then leverage our systems and network to raise equity, to find and close deals, and to build partnerships nationwide. Now, our Warrior community is finding success in any market cycle. So if you’re interested in finding out more about how you can become more of our incredible network and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that are coming very soon. Apply to work with us at “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345” and we’ll set up a call so you can check us out and we can check you out. That’s “MentorWithRod.com” or text “crush” to “72345”.