Ep #549 – Jordan Harbinger – How to network in just 6 minutes a day.

Jordan Harbinger is a super successful entrepreneur and podcaster. His networking in six minutes a day approach is perfect for busy real estate entrepreneurs so I know you’ll get a lot from our talk. Here’s some of what we covered.

  • Imposter syndrome
  • Super Connectors
  • Stacks of Needles
  • Building referral currency
  • The secret to being “helpful”
  • Six minute networking
  • CRM – Connection Fox
  • Staying top of mind
  • Busy people focus on relationships
  • Keeping it simple

To find out more about our guest:

Full Transcript Below:

Rod: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing”. I’m Rod Khleif and I’m thrilled you’re here. And I have a real treat for you guys today. I’ve got Jordan Harbinger on the call with us today on the show. And so, if you don’t know who he is, he’s an attorney that really became a social dynamics expert. He’s an entrepreneur. You know, he’s been in podcasting forever. His Jordan Harbinger show gets downloaded about six million times a month. Yeah, I just wanna make sure you heard that. I mean, he’s had billionaires on there like Ray Dalio, Mark Cuban, he’s had actors like Dennis Quaid on there, he’s had athletes like Kobe on, you know, and Dennis Rodman. So, I mean, he really gets some hitters on his show. I highly recommend you check it out, jordanharbinger.com. And, you know, he speaks five languages. I mean, I could go on and on about this guys. He worked for different governments, he’s traveled in war zones, he’s been kidnapped twice and talked his way out of it. And, you know, this is gonna be a lot of fun today. Jordan, welcome to the show brother.

Jordan: Thanks for having me on man. I appreciate it. I love your backyard there. Very cool. Very fancy.

Rod: Thank you. Thank you, fancy schmancy, yeah. No, thank you. So, you know, we talked before we started recording about how we might add the most value to my listeners and you are a networking expert. And those of you guys listening, you know multifamily is a team sport and it relies on your ability to network. So, you know, I’d love to dig deeper on that because, by the way, guys and I’ve signed up for this. He’s got this free course online about networking. It’s called, it’s the website, write this down. It’s sixminutenetworking.com and I’ve been watching it and listening to it, and of course, I asked him so, you know, what do you sell after this? After, you know, after you’re done with the course? He’s like, nothing. I’m like, no, come on. What do you sell? No, nothing. He’s just adding value which is obviously why he’s such a huge success. But, so we’re gonna drill down on networking techniques. But, you know, before we do that Jordan, you know, I’d love for you to drill down on some of your background just because it’s so freaking cool and then expand, you know, that quick…

Jordan: Sure. Yeah, I’m happy to do that. So, where to start, right? I mean, I was kind of like one of those kids who couldn’t pay attention in school. Surprise, surprise, surprise. And I always thought like, oh man, I don’t know how people do this. I must not be that smart. And I remember my mom saying like, no, you are smart. And then you go, okay mom. Like you’re credible, right? So, but I kept getting in trouble and then I started getting in trouble with the law which actually is not my parent’s fault at all, right? Like, it was just, I was so bored in school, middle school, high school, that I thought, well, I can’t pay attention. I’m probably just gonna be a troublemaker my whole life. And my parents were pretty concerned because I wasn’t like shoplifting. I was like opening up those phone boxes on the side of the road and being like, huh, if I plug in this device that I built at home out of radio shack parts with a soldering iron that I got, you know, with my allowance, I can listen to people’s phone calls. And then the phone people would be like, wait, let me get this straight. You made a wrench to open this box. You made a device to listen to phone calls. You know this is like a federal offense, right? And you’re 13 years old. And I was like, sure. Okay, whatever man. And I would get in trouble for that stuff, you know. So eventually, I started working a little bit with the FBI because I got caught doing something that involved like computers, credit cards, cell phones, and they were like, the police couldn’t figure it out. The FBI came and they were like, okay. One, stop doing this. It’s a crime. Two, you should not be doing this. You’re 14. I had to call Washington, D.C.’s, you know, this is the 90s. I had to call Washington, D.C.’s Cyber Crime Division to figure out exactly what you were doing. And even, they were like, there’s no kid doing this. Where’s the, you know, Russian Intelligence Officer teaching him how to do this or where’s like, the organized crime figure showing him how to do this? Because I was programming cellular phones and stuff like that. So, the FBI agent who is like a younger guy he goes, if you keep your nose clean, you can join the FBI later. Just stop getting in trouble. Like, don’t be an idiot. You know, and that was kind of a wake-up call for me because I thought, wait, the FBI is interested potentially in me if I stop screwing around? Like, I’m gonna get on the straight and narrow. So, what I did was I did all of that bad stuff but I didn’t apply it to bad things, right? Like, I would buy the cell phone and program it and then not steal cell phone minutes from people. And I did a lot of that stuff and I started to really get good grades also because I went to high school and there were like classes that would let me learn at my own pace and that kind of saved my ass to be honest. And it turned out that I was just bored in school. I didn’t know that though. I thought school was just so boring because the teachers were boring and that the material was boring and that I’d be unemployable forever. And I’m sure a lot of people who are like in your coaching programs and stuff go, oh, I remember thinking I was unemployable as they like kick back on their yacht and fish, right? Because a lot of unemployable people are unemployable because they would have been terrible on the assembly line or terrible in the learn how to check for commas and documents as a first year lawyer or associate, you know. They would be bad at that but they were great at find a property, do the due diligence on the property, gather the investors, sell the investors on the idea of getting the property, market the property, like they’re good at that stuff that you can’t learn in school because it’s so disparate and requires constant focus on 20 different things and multitasking, like all these things that all of us entrepreneurs are wired for but is actually called hyperactive attention deficit disorder or whatever, right?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Now you get pills for it, before you were hopeless. Yeah, or you end up in juvie because you like, did something like start a business selling illegal fireworks or something along those lines, right? Like, which I also did. So, there was just tons of that stuff. And that was what originally got me into the idea that I probably should be running my own business, but I grew up in Michigan, you know, I didn’t grew up– my parents are great people. My dad was an auto worker. My mom was a public school teacher, Special Ed, like these are not people who go, you know what? You should chart your own path. They were kind of like, no, we were the first people in our family to go to college. You should definitely just go to college and get a good job. Like, that’s how people in our generation we’re successful, that’s probably gonna be how people in your generation are successful. And that was good advice. Like, to their credit, that was good advice for that, given their experience at that time. But for me I thought, o-oh, if this requires more school, I’m so screwed. You know, this is not gonna work out for me. So I started to, I went to law school, I did well, I got a great job on Wall Street, and then I went, okay, these old ghosts are coming back. I can’t pay attention in the meeting very well. I’m having trouble figuring this out. I am the dumbest guy in the office which wasn’t true. I was just the guy who couldn’t pay attention to a real estate derivatives financial product presentation in the office so I didn’t understand what the hell was going on at the time. And I thought, I’m gonna get fired. You know, they’re gonna realize that I am the weakest link so to speak and they’re gonna be like, why is this guy here? He slipped through the cracks. Now I realize that’s impostor syndrome where you think you’re the only person who’s unqualified for the position you’re in, but back then and even when you’re in that, regardless of how old you are, you kind of go, no, no, but I’m right. Like, other people think they’re not qualified but they are. They’re just being modest. I’m right though. I’m definitely, you know, not supposed to be here. So I started to think like, how can I work from home? How can I get away from the scrutiny of the office? And I thought, if I work from home then they will, it’ll take them longer to realize they don’t belong here, thus take them longer to fire me, thus if I work from home maybe I’ll have enough time to figure out how to be a lawyer before getting fired. Like, that was my strategy. So I asked one of the partners who was really young and never in the office. And I said, okay, so you’re a young partner, you’re never in the office, how did you get to work from home so much? And he’s like, work from home? I don’t really work from home that often. And I’m like, okay, but you’re never in the office so, where are you? And he’s like, oh, I mean, I get clients for the firm. You know, I play racquetball, I go cycling, I go jogging, I play golf, I do jujitsu. I’m like, why are you getting paid to do that? And he’s like, because those are our firm’s clients and when they have a million dollar deal from their Bear Stearns or Goldman Sachs or whatever bank they’re from, they kick it to us because I see them all the time and we’re friends. And I was like, that’s what networking is? I thought you had to like, go to these dumb mixers and hand out business cards and then people would like, look at their stack of business cards and call you? And he’s like, yeah, that’s not really how this works. And I’m like, okay, but that’s what they taught us in freaking school like, get a business card and print it off on your crappy inkjet printer and hand it out to anyone who will take it. And I knew that something was wrong because whenever I got a business card, I just threw it away. What am I gonna do with this? I don’t know you. Flick. You know, I’m not gonna give you my retirement fund, financial manager wannabe. Flick. Right? There was all that. And so, from him telling me that basically just be cool, I was like, okay. Well, I can’t do that. That’s non-actionable advice. Anybody who’s working at a law firm on wall street probably gave up on being cool a long time ago so I don’t think that’s like really something I can put into action.

Rod: Pull off.

Jordan: Right. Like, yeah, it’s non-actionable advice. It’s hardly advice. It works for people who know how to be cool and let’s be honest I wasn’t one of those people. So, I started to think like, okay. How do I learn how to network? And I started taking classes from Dale Carnegie and all this, and they were cool, I guess, but mostly just for like the 101 Basics of Selling, 101 Basics of Introducing Yourself. And there was a time at which I realized, okay, if I don’t get a million dollar deal from our client Goldman Sachs, is it really because I didn’t look him in the eye and have a firm handshake? Like, no. That’s not why. What’s the real reason? And then, it quickly dawned on me that I wasn’t gonna get the real reason from a dude wearing a sweater vest working Tuesday Nights at the YMCA or the frickin’ Learning Annex, teaching networking. Like, these are guys that are kind of doing this because they’ve never been able to get and hold a corporate job, let alone are they gonna be able to tell me as a Wall Street Associate at a pretty good firm, right? How to do this like they have no experience. They’re winging it. They’re reading out of the Dale Carnegie textbook written by another guy who’s never had a corporate job other than Dale Carnegie training. So again, you know, not to smack talk Dale Carnegie, there’s kind of a basic thing in there. But once you get past standing in front of remove 12 people and introducing yourself, the advice kind of peters out. It doesn’t apply. So, I started to learn from first principles, right? Like, body language, nonverbal communication, psychology, persuasion, influence, stuff that people weren’t really putting together. And I met some really good, actually real estate sales people that were like, come, hang out on my boat and meet the chief surgery resident from the University of Michigan Hospital. And I was like, this is cool. I don’t know when I’m ever gonna use this but it doesn’t matter. And I remember thinking like, how did you get– I was young enough to be able to ask, how did you get this rich without it being really tacky, right? When you’re 25, you can be like, how did you get rich? And the guy’s like, oh, thanks for appreciating the fact that I’m rich because like, you know, middle-aged dudes with boats, they wanna talk about this stuff with a 25 year old who admires them. When you’re 45 or 40 like me, it’s less charming and it’s a little more tacky. So, I was asking these, you know, older guys that are like in their 60s how they made all their money and they’re like, oh, well see? You’re on a boat right now with this guy. You don’t necessarily need to become a doctor or something but you should know this guy. And then later when you meet someone else and they are of a good addition to your network, you just keep meeting people like this, and you keep in touch with them over time, and you keep at that time, you know, he’s like, you store their number in your cell phone and you, you know, put on your calendar where you met and every year you reach out to them. I do that differently now and I’ll talk about how, but you keep in touch with people. And I thought like, this is pretty genius because this is a guy whenever I go, hey, I’m thinking about doing law or getting into real estate or, you know, I don’t have anything to do this weekend. He would be like, oh, I’m having a party, or you should go do this event, or you should learn this, or you have to meet this person. I was like, how does this guy know everyone? And the reason is because he was a super connector. And at the time I thought, oh, just rich people know each other and that’s kind of true. But really, he had very deliberately built this roster of amazing people because he was a real estate landowner in Ann Arbor, Michigan who owned a bunch of stuff. But that was too, his advantage. Because when he needed, I assume when he needed investors or when he wanted to get a property that was maybe not on the market yet, everyone was like, call Bill, right? And he didn’t even have to like, look at signs on the side of the road and call the number because someone called him and said, hey, they’re selling a shopping center near the mall. You wanna pick it up with your investors? And he was probably like, great! You know, sure. And that’s how this guy had made just a crapload of money. And he really got it. Like, he really got it at a level that I’d never seen before. And that was very interesting and I put sort of a mental note in there and I started applying that stuff at my Wall Street law firm. And that was the genesis of my, me getting pretty good at the networking thing over a period of years and developing real skills and real strategies to build networks and keep in touch with people over time. Because I noticed that a lot of people who are naturally good at it, they have like proto systems where they’re like, yeah, whenever I look at my calendar, I look at people’s birthdays and I call them. And I’m like, okay, that’s not bad but it’s not great. Because then, you’re engaging with people one time a year. You’re calling them on the busiest day of the year for them where they’re hearing from their mom. Like, they don’t really wanna talk to you. You know, so I developed real systems and I’m sure you wanna maybe like get a word in edgewise on your own show. But I developed those real systems to sort of develop this.

Rod: No, no, no, listen. No, this has all been really good stuff and I’d actually like to circle back to a couple things you said.

Jordan: Sure.

Rod: Just to expand on them slightly. And, you know, one of the things I’ve heard the term super connector before. And what I envision that to be as a person that meets people but then actually connects them.

Jordan: Yes.

Rod: As a gift to them. Is that your definition as well?

Jordan: Yeah. I think that’s probably a really good definition. I don’t know if I ever came up with a formal one but you’re right, because a lot of people, they sort of fancy themselves super connectors but they don’t really super connect. They just have a big Rolodex and that they can call a ton of people when they need something but they never really like, plug other people in. But that’s, you’re ignoring like 80% of the value of your net more of your network if you’re just doing what you need, because that’s the “What’s in it” for me. School of networking, even if you’re good at creating a large Rolodex, excuse me, you’re really missing out because let’s say, let me do like a party analogy here. Let’s say I need a graphic designer , and I walk into a party, and I go to the punch bowl, and I go, Hey, person getting punched. What do you do? And they go, Oh, I’m a real estate lawyer. And I go, Crap. I don’t need a real estate lawyer. So, now I’m looking around the party, they’re talking, I’m kind of ignoring them because I’m planning my exit. I tell them I got to go to the bathroom. I walk up to another couple of people after I go to the bathroom and I go, Hey, what do you guys do? And when one person is a golf instructor, and the other person is a doctor. I’m like, Well, crap. I’m looking for a graphic designer. So, now I’m looking over their shoulder and I’m kind of, right, I’m throwing away all these opportunities to create relationships with these people because I’m looking for the needle in the haystack. But if I’m only looking for people that are good nodes in my network that may be able to help other people on my network, now it’s just a stack of needles, right? Because everybody is potentially valuable to somebody else in my network. So, to redo it, if you’re a super connector, and you walk into that party, and you go to the punch bowl, and that person is a– What did I say? I don’t know. Let’s, I already forgot what they were. Yeah, I’m looking for a graphic designer and they’re a lawyer, right? A real estate lawyer. I talk to them and I go, Okay. Real estate lawyer. And I go, Okay. What kind of people are you looking at me? Well, I need more clients. I do a lot of deals, you know, where people buy commercial real estate. I do all the documentation and diligence on that. And I go, Okay. Now, when I meet real estate investors, I will remember that this guy– Well, I’ll actually be writing this down in my CRM, but, you know, I will know that John Smith at the punch bowl at this party is a guy who does real estate due diligence and is a, you know, a senior level associate at a firm that’s pretty respected around here. Great. That’s a good person to know, or is a very junior person and might be looking for other opportunities to climb. That’s a good lead for me. I don’t need them but the odds of me being able to find somebody else that can either help them or can be helped by them in the next 30 days is it’s a near certainty, if I’m continuing to network and grow my network and think about who can help who, that’s in your certainty. But if I’m just looking for a graphic designer, I’m literally like discarding all of these relationships as fast as I can, because all I need is a stinking graphic designer. And then, I leave the party having not met one and I go, You know what, I’m never gonna one of these again. I’m just gonna google what I need. Now, you’re transactional. Right? You’re just hiring people you need, and then you’re done with them. When you’re done with them, that’s not a super connector. You’re right, a super connector is a person who goes, Wow. I met like, 13 people at that party. None of whom I need right now, but now I know a real estate lawyer, a graphic designer, a couple of investors, a bunch of landowners, a professional golfer, a golf instructor. Those are all useful now to somebody, and that’s how I build referral currency because when I meet the person who’s new in town and is like, I don’t know, man. I live in Florida now. I should probably learn how to play golf. I’m like, Ding. I know a golf instructor who works at a really nice course. Why don’t I introduce you? Even if you don’t hire him, he can refer you to a better instructor. Now, the golf instructor’s like, Thanks, man. You sent me a lead, or a client, or a potential client. And this guy’s like, Wow. I’m in town for a week and I already met this guy who’s hooking me up with a golf instructor. This guy’s really nice. I should keep him in mind whenever I’m gonna my country club or whatever it is. So, like, this is how I build referral currency. I’m not really focused on what’s in it for me because that may never happen, or it might happen in like, five years. I’m just trying to build referral currency which means now that golf instructor kind of “owes” me one. Not really, because I’m not keeping score, and we’ll talk about that in a second.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: They owe me one, or at least they look on upon me favorably, I should say. And so does the person who’s new in town. So, when those two guys meet someone else and they go, Yeah. I’m looking for such and such and it’s me, or they just say, Yeah. I met this guy, Jordan, I don’t know. He seems nice, but I’m always suspicious. They go, No-no-no. He’s actually a really good guy. When I met him, he hooked me up with his golf instructor, and then the golf instructor confirmed. So, I build my reputation, I build my ability as a super connector, I build my referral currency, and that people are thinking, talking, keeping me in mind for opportunities. Things like that. So, let’s say that this golf instructor goes to his company-wide meeting at his country club and they go, We really need a speaker for our event. This golf instructor goes, I wonder if Jordan does keynotes. He seems like a guy who would do keynotes. Hey, Jordan. I’m sending you this text. We met at this party. You hooked me up with a new client. We need a keynote speaker for our event. Would you do that? And I go, Yes I do. My fee is $20000 because you live really close by. And they go, Great. Let me float your name. And then I get a gig in 90 days to speak, because I met a golf instructor and a new guy in town at two separate parties, or a coffee shop, or whatever. And now I’m making $20000 because of that. Now, it doesn’t happen most times. It happens one in a hundred times, but if I help 100 people and it costs me nothing to do that? Great. I just did all of this and I generated revenue out of thin air.

Rod: You know, without getting too ethereal. Really, that’s the way God or the universe works frankly.

Jordan: Right.

Rod: If you’re adding value to other people, you know, that you just get it back in spades at least that’s how it’s worked for me. I think it has for you as well, obviously here, you know.

Jordan: Yeah.

Rod: So, let me ask you. Before we get into, you know, the nitty-gritty of, you know, the process that you suggest. How do you get a Ray Dalio on the show? How do you get a, you know, a Dennis Quaid on the show? Was it the same way or is there some other strategy around

Jordan: Yeah. I mean–

Rod: these big names that are so obviously, they’ve got firewalls and, you know, they’re so

Jordan: Oh my god. Yeah.

Rod: careful and all of that. So, talk about that a little bit if you don’t mind.

Jordan: It’s true.

Rod: It’s just more for me than anybody else.

Jordan: Sure. No, it totally jibes with what we were just talking about, right? Because let’s take the Ray Dalio example.

Rod: Okay.

Jordan: I reach out to his people, don’t get a reply. Reach out to his people, don’t get a reply. Then I reach out to somebody else who I know, knows somebody that used to work at Bridgewater which is his firm, right? And they go, Oh, god. The book, Ray? That’s tough. His assistant is this person but they’re never gonna say yes because he’s so busy. And then, I reach out to that assistant and I go, Hey, I hope you don’t mind. I got your email from a former Bridgewater employee. I am trying to get Ray on the show but I don’t need to do it right now, I’m just wondering if he has anything coming up or he might be doing media. No reply. Follow up him in two weeks. They reply and they go, Nothing right now, thanks for your interest. Then I reply again, Sure. How about I circle back in three months? I do this for two years, three years, whatever. And then finally, they go, Hey, turns out he’s gonna be writing a book.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: And it’s called principles or whatever. Would you be interested in having him on to talk about that? And I go, Yeah, sure. When? They go, Oh, maybe six months when it comes out. I reach out in four months to make sure I don’t miss the media window. They come back and go, We’re not actually handling press for this but this publisher is. I reach out to the publisher but they already know me, because I’ve booked 50 guests through them in the past four– 150 in the past 14 years, right? With that publisher. And they go, Oh, hey Jordan. This would be a good fit for you. Let me bounce it off his assistant. Of course, that’s the person I’ve been talking to for three years or two years, right? And they go, Okay. The Jordan guy? Yeah. If you say he’s legit then cool. I know, I’ve been talking with him. He’s really interested. Fine. We’ll throw a flyer and we’ll let Jordan have Ray Dalio. I get Ray Dalio on. He has a really good time. The interview goes well. They get a lot of feedback from my audience. Then I reach out in six more months or a year and I go, Hey, love to have Ray Dalio on again. And they go, Oh, hey Jordan. What’s going on? How about in three more months? He’s got another thing coming out. I go, Great, no rush. Boom. Booked Ray Dalio again. Now, when I reach out to David Rubinstein, I go, Hey, David, head of The Carlyle Group, I’m really interested in what you do. I read your book about history, would love to have you on– Oh, by the way, I’ve had Ray Dalio on twice. Now his team goes, Well, I’m not gonna get in trouble booking David on this show if Ray Dalio did the show twice because if his people already vetted it, it’s got to be okay. I’m not gonna get canned but David’s not gonna turn around and yell at me for booking him on a show where Ray Dalio was on twice. So, hey Jordan, sure enough. Sounds good. And then, those things start to snowball because once you’ve had Kobe Bryant, Matthew McConaughey, Dennis Quaid, David Rubinstein, Ray Dalio, then when I reach out to somebody who’s at that level or “lower”, I don’t love that tier system but you know what I mean. They don’t go, Well, I’m a pretty big deal around here. They go, Holy crap. This guy said Dennis Quaid, Kobe Bryant, Matthew McConaughey, and Ray Dalio, and David Robinstein. Okay. I’m jumping over the table to get on this podcast because even though I’ve never heard of it, these are people that have entire squads who’ve done diligence. I’m not gonna turn this opportunity down. It’s probably kind of a big deal and that just snowballs over the years, right? So, it starts to get easier. It’s never easy, it’s always a huge pain, but it starts to get easier.

Rod: Sorry to drill down just a hair more.

Jordan: No, of course.

Rod: So, you know, when you’re meeting these people, you always ask the question, you know, what do you need help with? Is that a common question?

Jordan: Yeah. I try to be–

Rod: Are we getting ahead of your presentation?

Jordan: No. Not at all. I think it’s a good question but the problem with that is, let’s say that I’m like a 25-year old kid and I wanna get into your business. Do I email? Like, I guess this is kind of a rhetorical question but maybe not so much, let’s say I email you and go, Hey, what do I do to get on your radar? Well, okay. I mean, how are you gonna answer that, Rod? Like, you’re gonna go, I don’t know. You’re emailing me right now.

Rod: I get it every day, man. I get it everyday.

Jordan: I’m sure.

Rod: Seriously, yeah.

Jordan: Or like, how do I make lots of money in real estate? You’re like, here’s all this free stuff you obviously didn’t even frickin click on before emailing me you lazy POS, right? Like, you know, you lazy sod. What are you doing? So, that’s, I don’t try, I try not to do that. I try and go, Hey, nice meeting you yesterday. I just googled you and I found your website. It looks like you create, you design amusement parks. That’s pretty interesting. I don’t know how I could ever help you but that’s like, one of the most fascinating things I’ve ever heard of and they go, Yeah. It is pretty interesting, I just relocated to, where the hell is Disney? Orlando, I almost said Ontario, you can tell him from Michigan. I was just relocated to Orlando because I’m working at Disney and it’s got me going crazy, but this is my dream job as an amusement park roller coaster ride designer and I go, Huh, who do I know in Orlando? Okay. And then, I start to connect from there and I go, you know, I know you’re really busy but I happen to know this guy who owns a giant country club in Orlando. You should go check it out. That’s the kind of thing that builds value but I wouldn’t have known what this person did that they relocated until I talked with them. So, like, I’m kind of like, eliciting information. I’m not doing it in a sneaky way, but I’m doing it in a way. But if I go, Hey, guy who designs roller coasters, how can I help you?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: They go, I don’t know. Nice meeting you. Cause I’m putting the monkey on their back.

Rod: Got you.

Jordan: They’re like, I don’t wanna figure out what you can do for me. I don’t even know what you can do, guy I met at the punch bowl, go bother somebody else, you know.

Rod: No, that makes complete sense. Well, listen. Let’s, if you don’t mind, let’s talk about your six-minute networking, and guys again, that’s a sixminutenetworking.com, it’s free. So for god’s sakes, you know, the price is right.

Jordan: Yeah.

Rod: And if, you know, if you’re listening to me, you need this. Okay? So, let me just say that but let’s talk about that. So, you’ve got some, you know, some headings. I’m looking at the course right now, you know, why don’t you start, you know, talk about, I mean, it starts with Connect 4, if you don’t have it top of mind for you, and then, Gmail Roulette. Can you start, you know, just kind of drill down a little bit.

Jordan: Yeah, definitely. So, these are like the first couple of drills in the 6 Minute Networking Course and what these are is, Connect 4 is a clever name for re-engaging four people a day. So, what I do in the morning is usually around the same time like 10 a.m., pacific. I go in my phone, I open up my texting app, and I scroll all the way to the bottom. And at the bottom is where, that’s where it’s like, Hey, man. We went out to lunch two years ago at a conference because we both know Rod Khleif, and so I never kept in touch with you. Sorry about that. What’s going on? And here’s what’s new with me. And half the time, they don’t respond because they’re like, Who’s this random person? But the other half of the time, people who are receptive to this and who kind of get it, like in our, maybe also connectors or super connectors, they go, Oh, yeah. Hey, how are you? You have cute baby that you had because I’ll send up a picture of my kid or something, I’ll be like, Hey, I had a kid. I moved here. I do this. They’ll go, Yeah. You know, what’s funny is somebody mentioned your name a couple months ago cause I was looking for new podcasts and I checked out this or I can’t remember the name of your show. And I’m like, it’s the Jordan Harbinger Show, so now you have no excuse. Right? So, we start talking and I re-engage those people and I do four per day. Hence, the name connect four and like I said, 25% to 50%,they don’t reply or it’s like, Hey, this is a new phone number I just got, who is this? And I’m like, Oh, they changed their number, they’re gone. And the other half the time they reply, and it’s fine like it doesn’t require me to go out to lunch with them or get coffee with them, it’s a two-minute text back and forth, stay top of mind, and then I add those people if necessary. I add those people to the CRM software that I use, which is called “Connection Fox”, which is also I think, free right now. And I put them in for every six months, reach out to this person and see kind of what they’re up to and tell them what you’re up to. It’s like a very, very quick update and I do three connection fox updates per day as well to keep in touch with people.

Rod: Okay.

Jordan: So, what this does is it re-engages a few hundred people per month, half of whom, a little bit more, let’s say 25% of whom don’t respond and I just don’t care because it doesn’t matter, them’s the breaks. But the other 75%, they’re not necessarily doing anything for me. I’m not necessarily doing anything for them. But like, one out of 50 will say, Hey, thanks for texting me the other week, month, whatever. I, by the way, I’m working for a company now that does this and the founder is this amazing guy who just did a $100000000 exit. Would he be interesting for your podcast? And I go, Actually, that’s a pretty good connection. And they go, Great. Yeah, let me just introduce you to the publicist or the assistant. So, I get a lot of connections that way or more likely, they go, Hey, thanks for chatting the other week or the other month. I’m wondering if you do keynotes that’s why I always give this example is because this is how I get a lot of my speaking gigs. They go, I’m walking into a meeting right now and you’re top of mind since we talked about taking our kids to Disneyland when the pandemic is over, literal example. I’m wondering if you still do speaking, we’re having an event, we need somebody on zoom. You’re like, the first person I thought of. Why am I the first person they thought of after we haven’t talked for two years? Because I sent them a frigging text on a random Tuesday morning, and so now I’m one of the first people that they thought of that they can reach out to easily and they know I’ll reply. So, that generates revenue, it generates opportunity, and it’s really scalable. I mean, you can text like 150 people a month and it takes less time than you waste on Instagram liking people’s cat photos.

Rod: No kidding. So, yeah, I would, you know, my thought in my head is Man, that just probably becomes consuming.

Jordan: No.

Rod: Now, do you do it all by text?

Jordan: I do it by text and I do some email.

Rod: So, email as well.

Jordan: Yeah. So, when I log into Connection Fox, it tells me, Hey, it’s been six months since you talked with the general manager of Vox Media. You should send him a note. And then it’s like, his email is john@vox.com or something like that. So, I go, Oh, okay. Great. I reach out and I go, Hey. Been a while, John, what’s going on? I know Vox is undergoing some changes. I wondered if you were even still there? Yeah. Hey, Jordan. What’s up? Still here, not going anywhere. Got those sweet stock options, I’m sticking around. And then I’m like, Oh, good. Good to know. Let me know if there’s anything I can help with in podcasting. And then, they say, Actually, we’re actively recruiting new shows if you know anybody is a good fit for our podcast network, let me know. Now, I’m in a position where a major podcast network is recruiting, maybe it’s not necessarily public knowledge. I can take advantage of that opportunity. Friends of mine who have podcasts can take advantage of that opportunity. So, now I’ve just generated a bunch of opportunities that I can use to help other people and generate referral currency or even take advantage of myself. So, that’s just consistent. And people go, Oh, I don’t have time for this. It’s gonna generate all these conversations. You should be so lucky. Right?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Like, people think texting four people a day, they’re all gonna wanna get lunch with me. No, they’re not. They really are not. They’re gonna go, I’m busy, you’re busy. Nice hearing from you. Got a meeting, bye. Like, they’re gonna be thankful to hear from you but no. People, the idea–

Rod: So, it’s not consuming, obviously.

Jordan: No. People always go like, Oh, man. It’s gonna wait. I don’t do this because it’s gonna take so much time. That’s like saying, Oh, man, you know, I don’t like to invest in too many things because it just makes me too much money. And then, I have to put the money in the bank. It’s just so much trouble.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: It’s like, No, most investments don’t do that well and when they do, you’re gonna be grateful you’re putting the money in the bank and that’s how I feel about relationships. It’s like, if someone replies to me, we’re texting. How much trouble is it really? You’re on Instagram wasting time, chatting with like, your friend from high school you haven’t seen in 30 years. You can’t reply to somebody who might offer you an opportunity for your business? It’s just not a realistic concern.

Rod: Yeah. It’s a shame.

Jordan: You know, it’s not a realistic concern. It’s an excuse. People tell themselves, I’m gonna get too busy because they’re like, then if I tell myself this excuse, then I never have to do the drill that requires consistency, systems, and effort, and I can just lie to myself and say it’s gonna take too much time. and it’s BS.

Rod: No, I love it. And guys, you know, you’ve got to create reach in this business, in the multi-family space and what an incredibly easy way to do that because, and I guess, the Gmail Roulette is this kind of the same thing old email context. It’s kind of the same as the TextThing?

Jordan: Yeah. Gmail Roulette is kind of the same thing as the TextThing. The reason I have people do both, and a lot of people feel like they don’t wanna do both, the reason I have people do both is you have a lot of phone numbers in your phone, but chances are most people, you don’t have their phone number. Because I don’t give my phone number out to everybody because I don’t want them to randomly text or call me all the time because I’m not close like that with them. But I have tons of emails and the way to bring some of those email relationships a little bit closer is by, obviously, by contacting them. So, I do the Gmail Roulette and here’s a good example. Adam Grant is a super popular author thinker, he was just on my show. I’ve known him for a long time, but I don’t have his phone number and I wouldn’t call him because he’s busy and he’s writing books and I know that email is actually a faster way to get a hold of certain busy people who are writing because their phones are off, for god’s sake. For good reason. So, I’ll connect with him by email but if I don’t have him in my CRM, if I don’t have him in Connection Fox, then what? I just never talk with him again. I met him once 10 years ago, never talked with him again? That’s a terrible idea. So, when I type in “a” and Gmail shows, do you mean Adam Grant? I go, Oh, yeah. That’s a good guy I should reach out to again. Right now he’s in my CRM, but before he wasn’t. He just popped up randomly when I typed “a” into Gmail, which is the Gmail Roulette Drill. You type in a random letter every morning and you find somebody who shows up.

Rod: Got you.

Jordan: So, people hate doing this because they’re like, I feel like I’m spamming. Sending an email, checking in on somebody, and saying. Hey, I noticed that you have a new book out, are you doing media for it? Hey, I noticed that you just moved. Why the move? What’s down in the South of Florida?

Rod: So, you personalize each message there as well?

Jordan: Definitely.

Rod: Okay.

Jordan: Yeah. You don’t just send emails like, Hi, what’s new? Delete.

Rod: Copy and Paste. Right.

Jordan: You know, I would delete that.

Rod: Okay.

Jordan: What’s new? How can I help you? Again, you’re putting the monkey on somebody else’s back. If somebody emails me and says, Hi, what’s new with you? I’m like, do I, if I don’t know them immediately, I’m like, delete. I don’t know you, this is not worth a response. But if they’re like, Hey, Jordan. I noticed you had a kid. I’m like, who is this person? They must follow me on social media. I probably talked to them before. Let me see. I look up our message history. Oh yeah, right, of course. This is the guy who yada yada, and now we’re talking again and that generates opportunity as well. It’s really not that much effort once you get the systems like you’re using Connection Fox, you have it scheduled in your calendar to scroll up in your TextThing app. It takes like five minutes a day, six minutes a day, hence the name 6 Minute Networking. It’s not, people think networking is like spending an entire weekend volunteering at a food bank. Okay, that’s cool but you don’t have to do that. Real busy people, they focus on relationships but they’re not constantly giving away their, I mean, I guess a lot of people are constantly giving away their time but most people are too busy to do so, but everybody has six minutes a day. Even if you think you don’t, you just make time for it because it’s a high leverage, high reward scenario to have all these people active in your network.

Rod: Oh hell yes. I mean, even if it’s a half hour a day, it’s worth it.

Jordan: Exactly.

Rod: So, you know, I don’t want to, you know, make this too ad nauseam for you but, you know, you’ve got Digging the Well, Digging Deeper but then you’ve got all these different techniques. Will you tell me which direction we should go with this? Because this is fascinating stuff.

Jordan: Sure. I mean, one of the drills that I always like to give is the Connect 4 which we did. You know, I honestly think that that’s one of the most important ones because that’s the easiest one. You always have your phone with you.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Digging the well before you’re thirsty really is kind of like what I say about networking. I think that’s like a Harvey Mackay book from 1997 or something like that.

Rod: Wow, yeah.

Jordan: One thing I would recommend in addition to those two that people do is just imagine that you get either laid off from your job or your business just like it evaporates. Doesn’t matter why. Make a list of the 10 or 15 or whatever people that you would contact to solicit their advice on what to do next. This I call layoff lifelines because most people are working for a company, but even if you’re an entrepreneur, it works.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: The reason that you make this list of 10 to 15 people is because a lot of these people you haven’t talked to in forever. Especially if you’re new to creating a network and doing a good job with this. And also, you might have like five people on speed dial. You might even have 10. But once you get to 10 or 15, you’re like Ooh who else can, who else would I go. And this becomes like your old boss, your guidance counselor from college, your friend’s dad who retired but was like a really big entrepreneur and exited his company or was a partner to law firm. These are your important but dormant network ties. And when you make this list, then reach out to those people now because while you don’t have an agenda and you don’t need anything because you didn’t get laid off yet. Your business didn’t implode yet, whatever it is. Make the list reach out now, because if you reach out when you have a problem, now you’re reaching out and you’re desperate. And you’re like, Hey, Rod. What’s going on man?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: So, how’s the weather? I need a job. Do you know anyone who’s hiring? And you’re like, I haven’t talked to you in like eight years. I’m not gonna vouch for you. I can’t help you. Good luck, this is an awkward conversation. Bye. But if I reach out to you now, and then I reach out to you again in six months, and then in another six months, and then another six months. Then in two years, I’m like, Ooh, hey. I’ve got this problem where I or my wife got laid off. Do you know anyone who’s hiring in your area because we live in your area or we’re moving to your area? And you say, Actually, Hey, Jordan. I’ve known you for two years. It’s obviously not you just reaching out to me when you need something and I kind of know you. Let me see what I can do, right? People are much more likely to help you. It’s less transactional. It seems like a, more of a normal request, you’re requesting a buddy, or acquaintance, or a friend to help you versus like who’s this stranger that’s popping up? And you see this all the time, right? When somebody reaches out to me and I haven’t talked to them in years, my first thought is, Okay. Is it Herbalife you’re trying to sell me?

Rod: Alright.

Jordan: Are you a scientologist now? You’re trying to get me into your cult or whatever, like what’s the deal? Where are you trying to recruit me?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: What’s I’m suspicious? And that’s normal. But if I say, Hey, just wanted to catch up. I’ve done kind of a bad job keeping in touch over the years. Wanted to reignite this relationship. Then you’re like, Okay. I’m still suspicious but whatever. Then it happens again in six months, I’m less suspicious. It happens again a year later, I’m less suspicious. Then, by the time I actually have a problem, you’re not suspicious because this is just who I am. I re-contact you every few months and I try to help you with something or vice versa. Then it’s not sketchy.

Rod: Do you recommend the six month window? Sorry to interrupt.

Jordan: Yeah. No, that’s fine. I do because I used to have a three month window, and then I realized like, Wow. I’m contacting a lot of people pretty quick. Three months sounds like a long time.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: But when you have people who are kind of on the outside of your circle, you go, Huh, I haven’t, I mean, my life has changed a little but at the end of the day I still am running my business. I had a baby, now nine months ago instead of six months ago. Is it really that big of an update?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: No. And then, you find yourself kind of reaching. You can start with three months but what I found is, I switched to six months and I just felt like it was more, it was easier and people weren’t like, Jordan again. You know, now that they were hopefully doing that before but I think it was just easier for me. And also, once you get like 1100 people into Connection Fox and your TextThing, you know, you start to go, Good Lord, I’m doing a hundred of these a week. You don’t really need to do that many. It’s more like, a few dozen is good enough.

Rod: Okay. And, you know, that list you just described of the people you’d reach out to if you had a job issue is probably a higher level list than a normal list of people in your portfolio anyway.

Jordan: Right.

Rod: So, these are probably the right people you wanna definitely be top of mind with.

Jordan: Yes.

Rod: So, you’ve got, you know, Digging Deeper, is that just going is that becoming more personal? Is that what that means? Is it getting a little closer?

Jordan: Yeah, I would say so. And like, some of the other drills in there involve like reaching out to people, finding out what they need, eliciting what they need, trying to help them with certain things just like we talked about before.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: And eliciting what it is that you can help them with, and connecting these nodes in your network to other people like we mentioned at the top of the show where you’re going, Okay, I know that this person’s a graphic designer. I just met a website company owner, maybe they hire designers that are internal. And I go, Hey, you know, I don’t know if you’re hiring graphic designers but I got a graphic designer buddy who’s talented and kind of looking for a new gig. And they go, you know, not right now but our current head designer is leaving and having a baby in six months I think. So, you know, yeah. Shoot me their portfolio. That’s how you start to really build the referral currency, so some of the drills in 6 Minute Networking are about that. They’re about how to communicate what you do in a way that’s easier because, you know, I’m sure you run into this too where you see people who are new in an industry or you just run into people who work in any industry and you go, Hey, nice to meet you. What do you do? And they go, Oh, I architect enterprise level SAS solutions for micro national, and you’re like, I don’t know what that guy does. I don’t get it. I tuned out halfway through his job description, I don’t know something with computers.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Right. And that doesn’t work very well for helping that person ever because you have no clue what the hell they do. So, if you’re an investor, you don’t wanna say, Oh, I provide financing options for venture capital blah blah blah conglomerates. You wanna say, I help developers fund their projects. Because then someone goes, Oh, this is a guy who gets money for developers.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: That’s really what you want them to know but everybody’s so busy being fancy pants that they come up with a whole bunch of words that nobody remembers five seconds later, and they’re like I feel good about myself. Everyone knows I do something important. But they can never communicate it to someone else, so it’s basically a big game of telephone. Like, if I know you’re a web designer, I can say to somebody else who needs a website, Oh, my friend, John, is a web designer. But if you are saying that you create enterprise level web based marketing solutions, then I don’t know what the hell you mean and I’m never gonna refer you to anyone, you know.

Rod: Yeah. Let me ask you. Let me shift gears, if you don’t mind for a second here.

Jordan: Sure.

Rod: Because I’d love to just drill dig into you a little bit more because you’re such a huge success and I study successful people, so this is a little selfish. But, you know, what compelled you to get into podcasting? Because you not only did you have your, you know, the podcast that you have now, I mean, you had a top 50, The Art of Charm Podcast, you know, for 11 years. Wow. So, why’d you get into podcasting to begin with?

Jordan: Well, I was doing the law firm thing as I mentioned sort of at the top of the show. And then, I realized I wasn’t gonna make partner unless I learned how to network as per what that partner had told me. That was kind of like, his main takeaway was like, you need to be able to bring in business for the firm. Otherwise you could just be a workhorse for like 15 years. Maybe make partner or you can be like the guy who brings in a ton of business, make partner in seven years. And then they’re like, please don’t leave us because you’re bringing in $4000000 a year, here’s equity. Right off the bat. Like, you skipped the line.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: And so, I thought, Okay. I gotta learn how to do this. Then I was taking those Dale Carnegie courses, those were two basic, started learning from first principles as I mentioned at the top of the show where I’m learning psychology influence persuasion. And that was when I started teaching it to other people because I was like, you know, a lot of people are interested in this. And in addition, the law school that I was at, University of Michigan Law School, they were like, Oh, can you teach a little student-run elective about networking? And I was like, Yeah. People are gonna love it. Nobody cared because all the guys were like, I don’t need this. I’m gonna go work for Kirkland and Ellis and I don’t need networking because I’m a big shot smart guy who went to University of Michigan Law School and now I work at a big firm. And I’m like, Okay, cool story. You’ll find out in six years when some dude who get hired four years after you is making partner, you’re like, What the hell I’ve been working with seven days a week? You’re gonna find out you need this too late, but who did care was a group of women and the group of women really cared because they were like, Alright. We’re entering at the time, especially this man’s world that is law, we all need to stick together. We all need to be watching out for each other. We can’t be doing this whole wall street backstabbing investment bankery thing where we’re cutting each other down because we’re like 3% of the people who work at these firms. We need to stick together. So, I started teaching groups of women and the class I held at a bar because the law school was really hot during the summer. And at the bar, I was teaching things like, body language persuasion and non-verbal communication. So, I wasn’t like, hand your business card out.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: I was like, look at these people over there. You know, they’re doing this. This is how they relate to one another. This is important. This is showing confidence. This is showing non-confidence. And then, it became kind of a dating class because the women and I were like, What about that couple? And I was like, they’re not a couple. That guy likes her but she doesn’t like him and they’re like, I agree with you because women are really good at reading non-verbals by the way more so than men.

Rod: Right. Of course.

Jordan: And they were like, I agree with you but I can’t put my finger on why and I was like, this guy’s leaning in really far. She’s really relaxed. She’s checking her phone. He’s really invested in her. And they’re like, that is it. So, I started teaching this, and then guys wanted to know, Hey, why are you here every three days with like 11 women? Like, what are you doing? You know, they’re obviously riveted by what you’re talking about. You’re interested in them. What’s happening? So, guys started showing up to my class now that it became more interesting for them with all the women there, but the guys were showing up and then they would bring a friend the next week, and they’d ask me the same basic questions over and over and over, and the women were like, You can’t sit here and feed these guys, spoon feed these guys the same stuff every week, you know, you need to write a book. And I went, I am not writing a book. I’m studying for the bar exam, are you insane?

Rod: Right.

Jordan: So, I started recording my conversations, burning them to CD and handing out the CDs. And the problem is, guys were like, I need 10 CDs because I gave one of my roommate, my cousin, my dad, my friend, my uncle. I’m like, Okay. They’re $20 each but I’m not gonna get rich selling CDs that take me half an hour to burn. So, I started uploading the files to the web. And it was like, if you put an mp3 file on this website and then you give people the URL, they can download it. And then iTunes started to carry podcasts and it was, podcasting was new. So, I went, Hey, you have iTunes, right? Everyone in school had iTunes at this year. It was like 2004. Everyone at iTunes. So I went, go to iTunes, search for the previous show, I don’t wanna talk too much about them but the impetus that the show that became the Jordan Harbinger show. Search for this, they’d search for that, they’d find the show that I was doing, and they were like, Wow. This is cool. So, they started sharing it with friends and family and that was the beginning of the show that became the Jordan Harbinger show because people were sharing it all across the world and I started to realize that I was onto something because I would check my web stats and I’d go, Okay. I gave this away to 14 people last month and they’re all in Ann Arbor, Michigan because I’m giving it away in person.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Why are we getting downloads from Toronto, New Jersey, California, Germany, like, what’s happening? I’ve got someone in South Africa downloading every episode, what on earth is happening here? So, what I did, I asked on what was the, essentially, the beginning of the show, I said, Who’s downloading this? Who’s not in Ann Arbor? And I got a bunch of emails from people that were like, Hey, I’m in South Africa. I really like what you’re talking about. Hey, I’m in Toronto. I really like what you’re talking about. I found you through a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend or through iTunes search and I was like, This is a thing. Like, there was no social media back then. There was no Facebook really.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: There was no.

Rod: Nothing. There was nothing. There really wasn’t.

Jordan: There was nothing. YouTube didn’t exist.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Back then, 2006, there was Vidler but like nobody was using it except for Gary Vaynerchuk. And so, it was like, there was just like, I just thought there’s so much power here. Like, I had coaching clients on Skype that were like in Denmark. Right? And then an investment banker or sorry, mortgage banker in California hired me to train his sales team on conference calls because he’d found our podcast. And I was like, this is a real business waiting to happen. I just don’t really understand because nobody’s ever taught us how to market this. So, this mortgage banker was like, set up a PayPal account and take money and charge a hundred, and charge money for this. So, I started charging $50 an hour for phone coaching. And then, he was like, Okay. I want 50 hours. Here’s $5000. You’re raising your price to $100. And I was like, Great. And then he goes, all right, my first lesson is to you. Raise your price to $250 and I was like, No one’s gonna pay that. He goes, I’ve had 20 trainers in here to train my sales team and my bankers, they all cost thousands of dollars. You’re way better than them. You just don’t know what, you’re just new. You need to be charging thousands of dollars for this. So, I started to charge more and more money, and then somebody said, Hey, can I come and stay with you and see how you apply this stuff? And I was like, Hell no. This is so weird. You’re a phone coaching client. No, you can’t come live with me. I’m like 26 years old, you know, this is so weird. And he goes, Well, I’ll pay you $10000 if I can stay with you for two weeks. And I was like, Sure. Here’s my address because that was the most money I’d ever seen in one place, you know, at that point, you know, other than my outgoing tuition bills, my student loans.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: So, I started to just be like, This is fascinating, I’ve got a real business here. Then I talked about the fact that a couple of my phone coaching clients had come and stayed with me on my couch and moved to New York and stayed on my couch, and then people were like, I didn’t know it was an option to come stay with you. How much is it? And I was like, Well, if that guy paid $10000 for two weeks, I guess it’s five grand a week. And I was like, I don’t know, $5000 a week. And we had dozens of guys be like, I wanna come too. I wanna do this. Here’s my money. Take my money. So then, that’s how my business, my old coaching business that I don’t run anymore. That’s how that started because I just thought, I’m not gonna say no to people who are like, desperately trying to pay me money to come and live with me, so they can watch me do this in person. I mean, this is like way more fun than due diligence, and legal work, and all this stuff. I’m going out every night.

Rod: Sure.

Jordan: You know, it’s like a dream come true. I’m making, you know, at that point I was making at least my law salary times two.

Rod: No kidding.

Jordan: Just taking guys out on the town, you know, and I was like, this is just magical. I wanna scale this, so we did.

Rod: I love it. Thank you for that. I, you know, what’s next for you, brother?

Jordan: Right now, I’ve got a kid. You know, I’m–

Rod: Oh, congratulations.

Jordan: Thank you. Yeah, he’s a little baby now. But I’m running the Jordan Harbinger show. I’m at a scale where I don’t have any employees other than my wife. I have a team of like, freelancers, contractors, that I’ve had for years, but they’re not employees. Right? They don’t live in the United States. A lot of them, they, you know, there’s people that live in the US of course, but they’re part-time. And I’m like, this is really good, you know, I had a coaching company before with 20 employees. I did all those taxes. I managed all those, Hey, I couldn’t come to work today because I’m hungover. I’m like, you know, I’m too old for this I’m 40 now, 41, unfortunately now. I have to, I always have to check my age.

Rod: I’ve got socks older than you.

Jordan: Yeah.

Rod: In fact, I’ve got socks that have a decade on you.

Jordan: I bet you do, but I mean, I’m at the age where now I forget how old I am, and I’m like, Oh crap. That’s right, I’m a year old. But I go, you know, the simplicity is what I like now. So, people, you know, you mentioned earlier, you were like, you’re sitting on a gold mine. You’ve got this big email list.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: Like, you don’t sell anything.

Rod: Right.

Jordan: And I’m like, you know, I sell a lot of advertising, I’ll eventually do something that I really love. CourseWise and sell it, but I don’t envy those guys who have like 100000 Instagram followers, and every week it’s a flash sale, and every week it’s a new course, and every week it’s some mumbo jumbo. I’m just like, these guys are barely, they’re treading water, these are the guys that say, Yeah. I made $187000 last year on my product and they spent $200000 marketing that product, and they’re like, Yeah, you know, it’s just, I’m like, I don’t wanna be on that hamster wheel. So, I’m scaling the Jordan Harbinger show. I’m making it bigger. That makes my advertising slots worth more because basically what I do now is I read books and I talk to smart people. And I’m kind of loathe to screw that up by turning it into a t-shirt, you know, mug business, coaching business, like, there’s a right way to do it, and there’s a way to do it that doesn’t make me effing miserable,

Rod: Yeah.

Jordan: And I’m trying to figure out how to like, navigate that.

Rod: Yeah. And, you know, and like in the case of my coaching business, if I’m gone, then what? You know. And so, it’s not scalable.

Jordan: Right.

Rod: I just happen to love it which is why I do it.

Jordan: Yes.

Rod: But, you know, when I saw what you’ve got here that you created, and you just give it away, it’s like, you know, I’m sure that you could take it to another level. But now I understand why you don’t, so I’m really glad that I asked. Well, listen brother, this has been a real treat guys. The Jordan Harbinger show, go check it out for god’s sake. 6 000 000 downloads a month, this is insane. And go–

Jordan: We’re actually at 11 000 000 now, I’m not sure.

Rod: Oh, you’re 11? Holy cow.

Jordan: 10 to 11. I don’t know what the six minute or the six million 54:48.

Rod: Oh, that’s on a website somewhere.

Jordan: Okay.

Rod: My team missed that.

Jordan: It’s okay.

Rod: 11 000 000 a month. Good.

Jordan: I mean, at one point it was six, so they’re not totally wrong. It’s probably just on somebody else’s website from two three years ago, yeah.

Rod: Well that’s even more insane. Well, check him out guys and definitely the sixminutenetworking.com because it’s free and you need it. Okay? But, listen. It’s been a real treat, man. I really appreciate you coming on. Congratulations on the baby.

Jordan: Yeah, thank you.

Rod: And I’m gonna have to put you in my networking to reach out to you every six months.

Jordan: That’s right. Thanks so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Rod: Likewise. All right, buddy. Take care.

Jordan: Take care.