George Roberts is a former award-winning data scientist and bioscientist, now fully devoted to commercial real estate. With nearly 800 citations in genomics, microbiology, and physiology, he repurposed his analytical expertise to make housing economics and finance exciting as “The Data Scientist of Real Estate” on YouTube. As the founder of Roberts Capital Enterprises, George sponsors value-add multifamily opportunities, owning over 550 units and passively investing in more than 600 units, car washes, and triple-net real estate. He’s the author of Passionate Living Through Passive Investing and hosts the podcast “The Foundery – Where Leaders are Forged Daily!”

Here’s some of the topics we covered:

  • From A Science Lab To A Real Estate Office
  • How Seller Financing Gives You the Edge in Real Estate
  • Navigating the Economic Storm of 2025
  • Managing the Entrepreneurial Process and Winning Big
  • Why a Stable Home Life is Key to Massive Success
  • The Hidden Real Estate Honey Hole You Need to Know About
  • Shark Tank vs. Reality When It Comes to Business Valuations
  • The Power of Truly Understanding What You’re Investing In
  • Staying In Your Lane As A Real Estate Operator
  • The Propaganda In The United States Media

To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com

Full Transcript Below

01:20:15:03 – 01:20:39:26
Rod
Welcome to another edition of Lifetime Cash Flow to Real estate investing. I’m Rod Cleef, and I’m absolutely thrilled you’re here. And we have a very interesting guest today. You’ll understand why he’s interesting just based on his his history. His name is George Roberts. And, George, you know what? I’m going to leave it at that. I’m going to let you introduce yourself, my friend, because you’ve got such an interesting background that, I think it’ll it’ll make for some great conversation.

01:20:39:26 – 01:20:41:05
Rod
So welcome to the show.

01:20:41:07 – 01:21:05:10
George
Well, thank you. And it’s a great honor to be here. Yes. My my story is quite interesting. I was a scientist a half a lifetime ago. I published in three separate fields. I went into computer science. I became a data scientist. I try to repurpose my Ph.D.. I call myself a recovering PhD. And, you know, thinking that that’s the way to freedom and, you know, to actually be able to go home in the evenings and spend time with my family, you know, it felt like it.

01:21:05:10 – 01:21:16:15
George
But then, you know, I realized and it was really my sister who helped me with this, she wanted to found a construction company, and we did that together. And now she runs that and I do my own thing. But that was really.

01:21:16:15 – 01:21:17:26
Rod
Where, where was this?

01:21:18:03 – 01:21:26:18
George
This is in Troy, Michigan. So, yeah, one of the one of the one of the nicer cities in, in, Michigan, really nice home values out there. I mean, if you’re going to do it, it’s the place to do it.

01:21:26:20 – 01:21:30:16
Rod
So you were originally a scientist. That’s what your PhD is in.

01:21:30:18 – 01:21:32:05
George
Yeah. I’m a I’m a tech guy. Yeah.

01:21:32:05 – 01:21:36:11
Rod
So little bit. But the difference between tech is oh is is the science in tech.

01:21:36:11 – 01:21:49:01
George
Well I would consider in a certain way because I did move sort of towards tech. I wanted to go into bioinformatics, but kind of missed that mark and ended up just going straight into industry, which was very much more to my liking anyway. Okay. Yeah.

01:21:49:03 – 01:21:51:22
Rod
I have no idea what you’re talking. Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough.

01:21:51:25 – 01:22:07:23
George
Yeah. I mean, I was a totally and well, I mean, I can’t really say that because I also, you know, I played guitar in, in high school and in college played out. So, I mean, I do have an extroverted side of my personality, but for many years it was just complete introvert figure out how to become a bio scientist.

01:22:07:23 – 01:22:11:00
George
And it completely consumed me. So then I did a.

01:22:11:02 – 01:22:12:09
Rod
PhD in bioscience.

01:22:12:12 – 01:22:15:00
George
Yeah, bioscience. So it’s immunology and microbiology.

01:22:15:01 – 01:22:18:04
Rod
Oh wow. That’s relevant with Covid and everything. Yeah I know.

01:22:18:04 – 01:22:20:03
George
I was wondering sometimes that comes up, people ask.

01:22:20:03 – 01:22:25:07
Rod
Me, you know, what do you I’m interested in that. I mean were you involved. Were you in that when Covid hit.

01:22:25:09 – 01:22:35:10
George
No I had already moved on. So yeah, I think by about 2010, 2011, I was already into the data science. But I mean, it’s very much a part of my life. I mean, you know, I have strong opinions if you want to talk about.

01:22:35:10 – 01:22:47:20
Rod
Oh, no, I definitely want to talk about that. I, I, I have very strong opinions as well to cover that later. I will definitely circle back to that in a minute, but okay. All right. So so so you went from science to data science.

01:22:47:20 – 01:22:48:09
George
Yes.

01:22:48:09 – 01:22:57:18
Rod
Okay. Can you explain. So the science was immunology like you said okay. You’re in a laboratory but data science is is is the explain what that means to you.

01:22:57:19 – 01:23:18:28
George
Right. What it is, it’s basically so, essentially what it is, is I tell stories from data and do you think about it? Really everything we do, whether you’re in sales or not, in sales, you’re kind of in sales, right? And we tell stories. Right. And the thing about numbers is that most of the people who do have the facility with that, they don’t know how to tell a story.

01:23:19:01 – 01:23:35:27
George
Okay. And so your best data scientists and I actually went on to win an award in my field. They’re the ones who can take all of that data and tell the story. Okay. How do you explain it? First of all, to, to your boss, how do you explain it to your boss’s boss? And how do they explain it to their boss?

01:23:35:29 – 01:23:40:17
George
What’s the story in the numbers? And if you think about it, I think multifamily is really the same thing. Oh, sure.

01:23:40:17 – 01:23:58:12
Rod
It’s it’s KPIs. It’s it’s it’s it’s key performance metrics. So so give me an example. While you were when you just because for my own curiosity. So you’re doing data science where you were you evaluating numbers for like large corporations evaluating data I mean metrics and data for large corporations. And.

01:23:58:15 – 01:24:22:15
George
Right. So I did in a couple settings, and it was, first in fintech. Okay. And, you know, the idea is how do we build predictive models. So you build predictive models, and then that’s supposed to either generate a ton of revenue or it’s supposed to protect the company from, you know, some unforeseen or untoward financial circumstance. Either way, your models are either healthy or they’re sick.

01:24:22:17 – 01:24:44:13
George
And so what I decided to do, everybody wanted to build a model. So I figured, look, my whole career has been about go where the playing field is less crowded. And so I thought, well, why don’t I help to figure out when the models are sick? Diagnosed that, fix the models, fix them faster because each day you have a sick model, your company is losing money.

01:24:44:18 – 01:25:07:23
Rod
So. So when you say model, it’s like what you’re talking about is, is, you know, the data that you’re looking at, the the projections that are being made based on that data is what you’re talking about. Okay. So why the shift? Okay. So now now you’ve this is your third foray. And I could see how the data science could play a role in this business.

01:25:07:23 – 01:25:13:00
Rod
So talk about why the shift to multifamily to real estate and and maybe explain that a little bit.

01:25:13:00 – 01:25:35:14
George
Well, so I come from an entrepreneurial family. And you know, it’s funny how the apple does not fall far from the tree. So my dad, he grew up on a farm. So kind of real estate there. Sure. But then he went to finance. And you know, his father was also an entrepreneur. He ran the local general store. So over time, you know, my sister brings me into real estate through the construction company.

01:25:35:14 – 01:25:55:11
George
My dad brought me into real estate at the depths of the Great Recession. He said, look, George, now’s the time to buy a bigger home, and I did. We got a short sale and we bought it for a song. And now I have an extraordinary home because I had my mind on science. But he was the investor. He could see the market and say, this is the time to do, and he’s 100% right.

01:25:55:14 – 01:26:13:16
George
Well, what does that entail? Well, when when your current family home is worth half of what it should be, right. What are you going to sell it? No. So I became a landlord. So just a circle back when I decided, hey, I love entrepreneurship. Well, then what do I do? Well, not something completely different. I go into real estate.

01:26:13:23 – 01:26:22:08
George
I already understand being a landlord, so to to borrow from being a data scientist. Now let’s be a landlord at scale. Let’s, let’s go into multifamily.

01:26:22:10 – 01:26:22:23
Rod
Okay.

01:26:22:23 – 01:26:36:29
George
So everything I’ve done, repurposing, it’s all been a matter of just bringing it back home. What are my skills? What do I bring to the table so that I don’t have to completely start over? And now I’ve branded myself as the data scientist of real estate, and you can see me flying.

01:26:36:29 – 01:26:39:22
Rod
Around as you say it. So shall it be. Yeah. The data scientist.

01:26:40:00 – 01:26:47:27
George
Well, exactly. And so, you know, if you, you know, find me on YouTube, you see me flying around in a cape, and I try to make it interesting. It’s all about making it fun.

01:26:48:02 – 01:27:05:29
Rod
Oh. That story. That’s awesome. So you have a YouTube channel that’s called the Data Data Scientist of Real Estate. Okay, well, I have not had a chance to look at it. I’m looking forward to seeing that you flying around in real estate. Love it. So, so, and looking at your bio here, you talk about housing data macroeconomics, which is fascinating.

01:27:06:01 – 01:27:17:07
Rod
I actually like to talk about that a little bit with you. I’d like to get your opinion. In fact, is that’s pretty much it. Yes. I mean, you start it, you bought it. You said you have assets in Orlando or an asset, and I do.

01:27:17:07 – 01:27:35:15
George
That was my first asset and it was a lot of fun. 14 unit still one of my best deals. Okay. I mean, I like to talk about war stories and success stories. Sure. And your success stories, before they become a success story, are a war stories. So everything, you know, I, I’d love to tell you the story of that, if you’re interested, but it’s beautiful.

01:27:35:15 – 01:27:38:18
George
I mean, to come back here to Florida, and it’s like coming back home, like.

01:27:38:18 – 01:27:39:13
Rod
No, I.

01:27:39:15 – 01:27:45:05
George
Really came back home. So, we were looking for our first asset. And when we did.

01:27:45:07 – 01:27:47:06
Rod
We were all in this. You and your sister?

01:27:47:06 – 01:28:07:02
George
No. She we kind of went in different ways. So she’s doing the ground up construction, and I really applaud her. I mean, we are finishing our first subdivision now, and it’s been after many, many years, 12 units. And it’s it’s beautiful. Nice cluster development in Troy, Michigan. Beautiful. But, you know, it’s it’s just so much the better that she has her thing.

01:28:07:02 – 01:28:10:11
George
I’ve got mine. Got it. And now the whole family is an entrepreneur.

01:28:10:13 – 01:28:15:03
Rod
Okay. So awesome. So, so tell the story about the Orlando deal, then. Right?

01:28:15:03 – 01:28:29:09
George
So, you know, one way you can get into some larger multifamily is to partner up, get some people that are really experience. Well, we were all in real estate, but for us all being new, how do you get into it? Well, you’ve got to get seller financing. And we did. So we found a nice deal with seller financing.

01:28:29:09 – 01:28:40:15
George
So we didn’t have to deal with the fact that, you know, hey, have you ever owned 14 units or do you have 14 single family homes that you can point to and say, hey, I’ve got the experience to run this. So that was good. And and it was that was.

01:28:40:15 – 01:28:40:27
Rod
Your first.

01:28:40:27 – 01:28:50:04
George
Deal. That was the first deal. Well, good for you. I mean, yeah, I mean I had, you know, had had gone through a couple of single family. Yeah. But that. Yeah, but, but but it was the first big deal. So we can call it number one okay.

01:28:50:10 – 01:28:56:05
Rod
Okay. So 14 unit seller financing. Did you get decent financing or.

01:28:56:07 – 01:29:18:13
George
Well we did I mean, we got below market. I mean, I love seller financing. I know there’s really two ways you can play the game. Like, you know, for the really big deals, you can partner up with somebody who can sign on that giant loan. And you can do extraordinary with the economies of scale. But if you get 14 units already doing a thousand times better than somebody who’s out there buying a single family or a duplex, you know, you you’ve already jumped up quite a bit.

01:29:18:13 – 01:29:34:27
George
Now, if you get the great seller finance, you get the mom and pop deal. Somebody who doesn’t know what it’s worth to begin with, who hasn’t optimized the asset, and you’re willing to come in there and deal with the fact, I mean, look, rats in the kitchen, we had, you know, pest issues. I mean, it’s Florida. So, I mean, if you don’t spray every month, right, you’re going to have some cockroaches.

01:29:34:27 – 01:29:57:22
George
So we had some people that were living in a bad situation. So, I mean, I’m not going to pretend that I’m an altruist. It’s enlightened self-interest. We went in there, we cleaned it up, we doubled the rents. We did it doubled. Yeah, doubled. Yeah, I’ve doubled. And we had extraordinary tailwinds. This was 2020. So if you had the guts to pull the trigger on your first deal in 2020, in multifamily in Orlando, you did really, really well.

01:29:57:22 – 01:30:20:07
Rod
Yeah. Oh, no. Any anywhere in Florida. Yeah. Rents went up almost 30% most of the Florida market. So yeah, you know, it’s interesting, I confess I was looking to buy something local here in 2020. I was like a 6 to 8 unit. And I saw a six unit. And I made the mistake of meeting all the tenants, and and I knew I would have to double the rents and they’d end up moving.

01:30:20:07 – 01:30:41:07
Rod
And I had my heart. I couldn’t do it. I just, after meeting them all, I just I couldn’t do it. Somebody else did it. So it’s okay. But, yeah, I well, I like I like the enlightened altruism comment. That’s, that’s a, that’s a good way to define it. Well, let’s, let’s talk about the current economic situation for a moment, if you don’t mind, talk about, you know, where you feel we’re at.

01:30:41:09 – 01:31:00:23
Rod
Right. You know, we’ve just had a major election, and, you know, I, I, I, I’m, I’m still a bit of a bear, just based on, at least in the multifamily space, just because of all of the, debt that’s do that, people are struggling with. But what are your thoughts? Do you study the multifamily debt?

01:31:00:23 – 01:31:02:28
Rod
And, I mean, when you’re studying macroeconomics, you.

01:31:02:28 – 01:31:21:17
George
Just kind of study everything, okay? You got to study both sides. Supply and demand. Yeah. Just the way I would set things up is we had a long period where builders weren’t building. Right. And if you look at that, that’s actually something I track. So, you know, one of my value ads is I do, original analysis of data.

01:31:21:17 – 01:31:27:08
George
And you could just see, like, we got millions of units behind. Now, I would respectfully diss housing units.

01:31:27:08 – 01:31:30:00
Rod
There’s a lot of housing unit. We’re way behind for housing units. Right.

01:31:30:00 – 01:31:45:29
George
Absolutely. And there’s two sides you have to look at. So yes housing units. And that’s what’s easiest to track because that’s what you’re going to get from Census Bureau HUD. And then you’ve also got to look on the multifamily side and you got to look at locally. But just to get back to the big picture, we are millions of units behind.

01:31:45:29 – 01:32:13:29
George
And, you know, it wasn’t until maybe the middle of 2024 where we’re even at replacement rate and we’ve been sort of hovering at below or above or below, replacement rate would us about 1.5 million units. So we’re not really chewing through the backlog. Our country is still millions of units behind. So if you would go, I would say up to the beginning of 2024, we just had tremendous tailwinds from the lack of supply.

01:32:14:05 – 01:32:29:25
George
Now you have to look where we’re at now. I bought in Orlando in 2020. Tremendous tailwinds, no supply and tremendous demand. Now a lot of people I think have gotten away. They just look at when they say demographics. Hey I’m looking at how many people are moving in and everything’s good.

01:32:29:27 – 01:32:49:21
Rod
There’s been a lot of new build in the last couple of years. Now it’s fallen off a cliff recently. I’ve got friends that have, you know, thousands of units trying to come out of the ground in Dallas and they can’t fund them yet. But, so I think, you know what? I’m well, tell me your your opinion of all of this.

01:32:49:21 – 01:32:54:18
Rod
I mean, where you think are you more bullish or are as far as it relates.

01:32:54:18 – 01:32:57:16
George
To more, we’ll ask for your time frame and I’ll tell you what am I okay.

01:32:57:18 – 01:32:59:22
Rod
Yeah. Okay. Well that that’s it’s all relative.

01:32:59:22 – 01:33:19:11
George
That’s exactly I’m with you the short term a little bit bearish. Yeah I’m really had to pull the trigger right. You know he who has capital dry powder in in tough times is going to come out on top right. So keep keep some dry powder. Right. But we may be reaching towards the bottom and it depends on where you’re at.

01:33:19:11 – 01:33:38:09
Rod
Yeah I think I think actually sorry to interrupt. I think actually that that we’re still a ways from the bottom. The reason I think that and I’d love to debate this with you is, is a lot of lenders now with these operators that are struggling, the catch phrase is extend and pretend. So they’re doing forbearance as they’re doing the fees.

01:33:38:09 – 01:33:59:09
Rod
And so that but they’re kicking the can down the curb because if they foreclose it has to go on their balance sheet which, which hurts them. And so I you know, unless the rates drop, you know, more significantly than they appear to be dropping and they may not drop it all with the inflation numbers we’re seeing, I, I think we’re going to see some carnage now.

01:33:59:09 – 01:34:17:16
Rod
There’s a lot of money waiting the sidelines to take advantage of that carnage. But but I do believe so. The 25 I think could be a little ugly. But I think, you know, within inflation where it is inflation doesn’t just impact food and gas, it also impacts rents. And so, you know, I think by 26 we could we could really see a rebound.

01:34:17:16 – 01:34:18:29
Rod
And is are you thinking the same thing.

01:34:19:01 – 01:34:22:06
George
Same thing I mean survive till 25 I think that one’s gone out the window right.

01:34:22:06 – 01:34:33:18
Rod
Yeah. Yeah. It’s survive till 26 now. Okay. Okay. So we’re on the same page. Well that’s interesting talk about the shift from a you were heavy corporate. Yes. With the data science.

01:34:33:21 – 01:34:34:19
George
Yeah. Absolutely.

01:34:34:23 – 01:34:59:00
Rod
So talk about that shift to go into into real estate because obviously that that’s a secure situation that’s comfortable. You know, you know, it’s it can be very fearful for someone to step into an entrepreneurship role, although you’ve had, you know, a lot of in your family that have done it right. Talk about how, you know, talk about that process and how you managed it.

01:34:59:06 – 01:35:17:28
George
Well, a few things. First of all, there is the, the fact that I was in fintech, okay. And I’ve always been an investor, so I spent my time as a data scientist trying to figure out what is the best way to invest. Okay. And really came to a head around 2019. I’m thinking multifamily, multifamily, multifamily bought my first in 2020.

01:35:18:01 – 01:35:35:25
George
So on the one hand, I’ve got my family moving into entrepreneurship. The fact that I had been a landlord on the side at that point for already a decade, and all of this is really kind of coming into like, well, what do I do? I mean, where are you in multifamily? Kind of in the nexus of finance and real estate.

01:35:35:27 – 01:35:54:24
George
And so there were a lot of things that were pushing me in that direction. But really, if you gotta have your passion has to be greater than your fears. And if that’s the case, then you’re willing to make that leap and that, for me, was the case when I, when I said, you know, I, I’m having an all day long meeting on Saturday and we’re choosing contractors and we’re getting bids and things like that.

01:35:54:24 – 01:36:04:26
George
And, and I feel like at the end of the day, I’m not at all tired. I think, you know, this. Yeah. Take notes. Yeah. This is different that I may love my data science job, but I don’t love it like this.

01:36:04:26 – 01:36:07:16
Rod
So there really wasn’t any fear for you then?

01:36:07:19 – 01:36:23:24
George
I can’t say there’s no fear, but, you know, I started, I call it building your runway. Okay, so I was building my runway thinking that. And you know what I’ll just say, because for some reason, I think this will land with your audience. You know, the wokeness came on, and the corporate environment went from someplace where I was comfortable.

01:36:23:27 – 01:36:44:14
George
But I love entrepreneurship more to I want to get the hockey sticks out of here. Right. And so when the rates went up and the lenders, you know, they’re not doing the refi business like they used to. You know what? I was happy to pack my bags. You know, they didn’t have to tell me twice. And at the end of the call I, you know, I said thank you.

01:36:44:16 – 01:36:48:20
George
That’s what you’re supposed to do. But how many people get laid off and actually say thank you? Oh, so.

01:36:48:20 – 01:36:49:04
Rod
You got laid.

01:36:49:04 – 01:37:04:05
George
Off? Oh, yeah, I got laid off and it was perfect. It was beautiful. It was the best day of my life. Wow. You know, I mean, it was a little uncomfortable, but my wife and I, we talked about it, you know? Hey, I want to go in this direction. You know, this could happen. I thought it would happen.

01:37:04:05 – 01:37:25:26
George
Hoped it would happen a couple years later, which would have been about six months ago. Right. That’s when I would have been ready to take the step. But I was at such a point where I thought, look, just push, push, push. You got to get this plane moving faster so you can get off the airstrip, because I didn’t want to get another job.

01:37:25:28 – 01:37:41:22
George
And when it came, I thought, I am not going to go get another job, work 12 hours a day for six months so that I can master it, and so that I can be the boss’s right hand for get it right. It’s uncomfortable, but we’re going to lift this off right now.

01:37:41:29 – 01:37:47:24
Rod
The quality of your life is in direct proportion. The amount of discomfort you can handle. Bottom line 100%.

01:37:47:24 – 01:38:01:24
George
True. So yeah, it wasn’t that easy. But the wife accepted it. She said, look, you know, let’s let’s try for six months. And I hate to say it, but I kind of crossed my fingers behind my back and said, sure, we’ll try it for six months. There was no way I was going back. But she did support me.

01:38:01:24 – 01:38:02:25
George
And that was beautiful.

01:38:02:25 – 01:38:30:18
Rod
Oh, that’s that’s so critical, you know, that that’s at home environment is so freaking critical. One of the things I talk about in my bootcamps is I actually bring people on to talk about this is, you know, people that have someone at home that’s not on board with what they want to do and how people have, you know, and I asked my participants, you know, for anyone that has gotten past this with like a wife or a husband and, and and how they got through that process to get them on board because that’s so freaking critical.

01:38:30:18 – 01:38:37:26
Rod
So yeah, yeah. Love it, love it. So, you know, so you’ve done some multiple family. Have you done any syndications yet?

01:38:37:29 – 01:38:41:15
George
I have, I want to say the second deal was syndication, and.

01:38:41:17 – 01:38:43:13
Rod
It was a very fun fire. Where was it.

01:38:43:16 – 01:39:07:09
George
2021? It was Louisville, Kentucky. So it’s it’s I would say the right place. Now, we haven’t talked too much about geography, but what I like is the middle band of the country. Okay. Upper South, lower North. This kind of like Cincinnati, Louisville, Indianapolis. These are places that are just growing like crazy. And if you look where, you know, I looked at the top for for rent growth and ones Detroit, Michigan.

01:39:07:09 – 01:39:30:13
George
So that’s a, you know, a little off. But it’s still it’s still we’re talking, Midwest, you know, you see places like, Richmond, Virginia and yeah, I just can’t. Oh, Kansas City, Missouri, which I’ve got a couple deals out there and I love it, love, love, love it. And this, this is my thesis is, look, there are going to be times where everything is driven by migration.

01:39:30:13 – 01:39:45:08
George
And that was my first deal. That was Orlando. And you know, Sun Belt will come back again. But if you look at the data, there are a lot of places like say, Iowa, you know, where housing prices are sort of flat. They go up over time, but they never get hit very hard. Right?

01:39:45:08 – 01:39:47:20
Rod
I don’t think the city would be along those lines as well. Right.

01:39:47:20 – 01:40:02:26
George
There you go. Yeah. But right now we’re seeing some great rent, rent growth. And so I think Kansas City, at least for the time, you know, there are times where you make a killing and there are times where you kind of park your money. Right. Midwest is running faster than the rest of the country. Why? Because it’s running so fast?

01:40:02:26 – 01:40:20:25
George
No, because the other runners have stumbled. So if you put your money in the Midwest right now, in the right city, in the right neighborhood, and you know how to operate it, you’ll come out nicely in a few years. Your investors will still love you. And then the next time the Sunbelt is hitting like crazy, go invest like crazy in the Sunbelt.

01:40:20:27 – 01:40:25:15
Rod
Interesting. I’m surprised to hear you say Detroit, but I, I can,

01:40:25:17 – 01:40:26:14
George
Well, I’m from Detroit, by.

01:40:26:14 – 01:40:42:11
Rod
The way, can I, I gotcha. Well, I’m still surprised to hear you say it, because I know that, you know, the population has declined. Right. And, but I know, you know, this is that billionaire mortgage guy that has done that spend a lot of money there and done a lot of revitalization, at least I’ve heard. But, yeah.

01:40:42:13 – 01:40:43:12
Rod
You know, I’m, I know I’m.

01:40:43:12 – 01:40:57:09
George
Not necessarily endorsing Detroit. I’m just saying that if you’re looking at that one data point, I want to look for where things are converging. I want to see population growth. Right. I want to see there’s not too much building. Right. And I also want to see the rent growth. Well, look, we don’t have too much building in Detroit right away, the rent growth.

01:40:57:09 – 01:41:07:11
George
But we don’t have the population growth. So I mean, I wouldn’t say no to it’s my backyard, but no, definitely not the top of my list. But again, it reinforces that the Midwest right now is moving forward.

01:41:07:11 – 01:41:25:22
Rod
Yeah. No question. I, I, I have assets in Cincinnati. And, you know, the market, it’s I’ve got some, some challenging assets there, but not because of anything I’ve done. It’s an ex partner, but, but I like the market. We’ve got one assets. It’s killing it in Cincinnati, actually.

01:41:25:23 – 01:41:43:02
George
Yeah, selling. I’ve love Cincinnati for a few years. I’ve wanted to buy there and that again. I think if that’s not on the top four, definitely top five. Top ten. No. Top 20 for sure. Cincinnati. It’s turned the corner. And I think that’s really where you need to look. You need to have a little guts in this business.

01:41:43:09 – 01:41:49:02
George
If you just go where everyone else is going, you’re a lemming and you’re eventually you’re going to run off the cliff. Yeah.

01:41:49:05 – 01:42:11:25
Rod
Yeah, that’s a good analogy. Yeah. No, I like Louisville as well. I had an asset in Lexington that we bailed on. But it we did did okay. But that market just was a little too volatile. But, definitely like Louisville, like Indiana. And, I don’t I’m not too familiar with Kansas City, but the like, I like that, you know, I like your, your explanation for it.

01:42:11:27 – 01:42:31:03
George
But, yeah, I mean, I, we go to one of my partners out there. He is, Air Force. And so he completely understands that market. So he understands Leavenworth. And if that’s your background, that’s perfect. And you just have to partner with the right person. So, you know, I know who I want to partner with. I’m a little bit north of the city.

01:42:31:05 – 01:42:38:00
George
I’ve got people operating more in the city, etc. and if you got the right partners, you can make the deal work.

01:42:38:02 – 01:42:45:22
Rod
So I know that you invest in lots of different things. You said that before we started to talk about some of the other things that you invest in besides real estate.

01:42:45:29 – 01:42:56:22
George
So, when it comes to passive investments, I invest very widely, okay? I invest in early stage companies. I’ve invested in private equity. I invest all over, commercial real estate.

01:42:56:22 – 01:43:04:17
Rod
So, so a little too slow. I’m a little too fast. So. So, Startups. What? What sort of, is there a genre there you like?

01:43:04:20 – 01:43:21:22
George
No. I invest in various things. A lot of the startups, they tend to be tech heavy. Okay, but I invested in an apparel company. Oh, really? Of all things. Yeah, and that was interesting. I also invested in a fund because, look, you’ve got to invest for many, many years in early stage companies, every looks at Shark Tank and they think it’s also sexy.

01:43:21:22 – 01:43:40:04
George
But, you know, I think the, the, the sharks, they say that’s not really a moneymaking thing for them. That is their media thing. Right? You know, they’re happy to more or less break even on those investments. There’s a lot of glitz and glam. I mean, if you wanted to talk about Shark Tank versus reality, I’d be happy to do that.

01:43:40:07 – 01:43:42:18
Rod
You you actually have some knowledge base around that.

01:43:42:19 – 01:44:04:01
George
I do. So, so when, when we do our early stage investments, what do you think we have on. We’ve got big screen TVs. We’re not watching football, right. We’re watching Shark Tank. Right. But does do things actually work like that. Like the you know the valuations you know they they don’t they speak just in terms of their the pre valuation.

01:44:04:01 – 01:44:25:09
George
Right. But we really have to think is pre plus the post money and that’s your percentage. But they they water it down. That’s one of the differences on the show. And the other thing is is it the glitz of it. All right. You see about what 6 to 12 minutes. And they’re actually recording for hours now. Proper due diligence on an early stage company could be 40 to 200 hours if you want to lead around.

01:44:25:11 – 01:44:44:14
George
Right. And you know that they’ve got a team of assistants that are helping them behind. So if anybody thinks, you know, hey, being an early stage investor is all about just sitting across the table with an entrepreneur, judging their character in five minutes and saying, you know, hey, I would like 10% of your company for, $3 million.

01:44:44:14 – 01:44:45:20
George
That is not how it works.

01:44:45:21 – 01:44:57:05
Rod
Oh. That’s interesting. I didn’t know that I you’ve just educated me. I didn’t, you know that it makes complete sense that they’d have a lot more, pre frame prior to all that and learn more about the company before they throw hundreds of thousands or more.

01:44:57:07 – 01:45:19:29
George
Yeah, yeah. And here’s another thing. Like if you’re going to invest and if there’s something that I’ve learned from reading dozens of books, I want to say it’s David Rose, wrote a great book about angel investing. And he says, invest with your syndicate, because, look, if you want to do 40, 200 hours of due diligence on a company and you want to say no 40 to 100 times before you say yes, that is a full time job.

01:45:19:29 – 01:45:32:11
George
Yeah. Don’t attempt to do that unless you have the wherewithal, your time and your money. So when I invest with my local syndicate, they have said no 40 times that doesn’t mean everything. They should get.

01:45:32:11 – 01:45:40:28
Rod
A group of people you call a syndicate, okay? It’s like a group of people that, that that do armchair investing, reviewing, you know, so they divide and conquer kind of a thing.

01:45:40:28 – 01:45:44:11
George
Well, sort of, but there are the professional investors of the group that run the.

01:45:44:11 – 01:45:44:27
Rod
Group I.

01:45:44:27 – 01:46:05:25
George
See, and they come in and they’re going to vet all these, pitches. So when I come and I see that speech, that pitch that lasts 30 minutes to an hour and I get to ask some questions at the end of it. I am also fortified by 15 to 20 pages of due diligence. I can I can call up, the, the leaders of of that that local syndicate.

01:46:05:25 – 01:46:12:01
George
And I can also talk to the founder if I need to. So there’s a lot of research that goes into it, but I’m not going to do all that.

01:46:12:01 – 01:46:21:24
Rod
And interesting. So besides that, besides the, early stage and the private equity, what else have you invested in? And you said all classes of real estate. So what other asset? Yeah.

01:46:21:24 – 01:46:26:03
George
Like, triple net. You know, I’ve definitely invested in.

01:46:26:09 – 01:46:52:16
Rod
By the way, guys, triple net is, where the tenant basically pays everything, so it’s be like a, like a Walmart or, you know, a lot there are a lot of, single tenant, applications of triple net leases where there’s lots of applications, actually, even strip centers. But but you, you know, basically the tenant pays the taxes, the insurance, they a piece of the common maintenance and, you know, the margins aren’t as big, but they’re very typically very stable.

01:46:52:16 – 01:47:04:28
Rod
And you’re you’re really not evaluating the owner. If you’re buying one of these things, you’re evaluating the tenant because it’s based on the tenants, financial prowess and the length of the lease and things of that nature. Right, right. Yeah.

01:47:04:29 – 01:47:23:21
George
Yeah, absolutely. And people think of it more like a bond. Exactly. As you said, it’s it’s much, safer, harder to make a killing. But there are still many ways that you can, you can do value add. It’s just like you don’t come in and kick out your tenants. Right. And, and fix the place up. You, you know, you might fix the outside up a little bit, but, I mean, you want to sign a longer lease.

01:47:23:21 – 01:47:24:18
George
That’s really your value.

01:47:24:18 – 01:47:28:19
Rod
Add, right? Right. Okay. Okay. And, okay.

01:47:28:22 – 01:47:46:03
George
Well, one thing we haven’t talked about is, dad. I mean, I love to be the lender being the bank. The bank makes money every deal. And during these difficult times, I’ve heard it 100 times. You know, the only person making money on this deal is the bank. Because I talk to people all day long.

01:47:46:06 – 01:47:48:10
Rod
And have you done some private lending?

01:47:48:10 – 01:48:12:17
George
I have, I have, so I’ve lent on a fix and flip. I’ve lent to, apartments. I’ve lent to, various things, including, real estate projects, which is kind of emerging more towards the tenants of the, the triple net, etc.. So I like, I like that I like operating businesses. I like, I like real estate, but mainly I like real estate because look what you can do.

01:48:12:17 – 01:48:36:16
George
You can foreclose. Yeah. And I at a point in my life where if I make 12% and I can foreclose and I probably get my money back, you know, it hits. It’s like Mohnish Puri. He’s my favorite. Who? Mohnish Perry the Dando investor. So, Dando, I think, roughly translated security into business. Like, when you invest, you’re a business owner, right?

01:48:36:18 – 01:48:59:21
George
And even if you don’t own the business, if you invest in Ford or GM or Apple, but you have to invest in it like it’s a business. Intelligent investor Ben Graham would tell you the same thing. If you don’t think like a business owner and you’re an investor and an investor, you’re a speculator. So, you know, he will tell you the story about how you really have to truly understand what you’re investing in.

01:48:59:24 – 01:49:00:17
George
Yeah. So, yeah.

01:49:00:23 – 01:49:16:25
Rod
I couldn’t agree with you more on that last comment for sure. You know, that, you know, and I tell people even if you’re if you’re going to invest in real estate, in multifamily real estate, even if you’re just going to invest passively, get your butt to my boot camp. So you have a basic understanding of what it is you’re investing in for God’s sakes.

01:49:16:25 – 01:49:17:04
Rod
Right?

01:49:17:06 – 01:49:25:01
George
Right. Yeah. And getting some basic mentorship, I think, is a fabulous idea. I mean, I’ve $97. I mean, oh, yeah. It’s not like I’m getting a cut right here.

01:49:25:01 – 01:49:25:11
Rod
Oh, yeah.

01:49:25:12 – 01:49:34:01
George
But $97, you know, you can make it down to Orlando and have a great time, meet a bunch of investors. And I’ve gone to many, many.

01:49:34:03 – 01:49:35:00
Rod
You come to my boot camp.

01:49:35:03 – 01:49:36:07
George
I didn’t I should have.

01:49:36:07 – 01:49:51:23
Rod
Oh, okay. No, no, actually, it’s a little more than 97 for my live one, but. Okay. But my virtual one is 90 to 97 for two days not to sell anything there. So, like, tell me your excuse, you know. Right. I mean, it’s 18 hours or 16, 18 hours of training with nothing mean. So for 97 bucks, I mean, hello.

01:49:51:28 – 01:49:57:22
Rod
But, you know, it’s it’s a little more net, for the for the live when. Not much more, but, but. Yeah, yeah.

01:49:57:22 – 01:50:15:19
George
We’ll get out and do it because, like, I, I do something similar. I have a whole bunch of meetups, both virtual and in-person, and I couldn’t I couldn’t agree with you more that it’s worth it to get out, talk to people who know what they’re doing right and talk to other people in your field, because I wouldn’t be able to have my fingers in so many pods and lend money.

01:50:15:24 – 01:50:21:04
George
I mean, now I’ve got people who come to me, they’ll bring the deal to me, right? And I’ll say like, okay, fine, I’ll lend on that.

01:50:21:06 – 01:50:24:01
Rod
Yeah. Yeah. And I told you, I want to debate this.

01:50:24:04 – 01:50:25:26
George
I do, and I want to.

01:50:25:29 – 01:50:47:07
Rod
It’s time for me to rebuttal of a bit. Yeah, because I believe focus is power. Yes. And and, I mean, you’re obviously extremely intelligent and and and very analytical and, and I can see how, you know, you’re, you’re going to have a, probably a higher success rate being having your fingers in multiple pies than, than most people would.

01:50:47:09 – 01:51:07:02
Rod
That said, I do believe focus is power and and I can tell you that I’ve I’ve started 29 businesses in my career so far and several worth tens of millions of dollars. You know, I, you know, I call them seminars when they fail. And most were, were flaming seminars. Okay. You know, we fail our way to success.

01:51:07:02 – 01:51:26:27
Rod
But I learned a lot. And I’ll tell you most of the time that I got my butt handed to me was when I was too diluted. My focus was to dilute it. So. But but I can tell, you know, you do a lot of analysis so I could see how how it would be effective for you. But, you know, if you’re going to do this, I just want to say this to to my listening audience.

01:51:26:27 – 01:51:43:27
Rod
If you’re going to be diversified, you know, I will tell you that 1 or 2 things, in my opinion, you can tell me and you can rebut when I’m done here. One, I would I would partner with somebody that knows what it is you’re investing in and that has an ownership interest in it. Yeah, okay. That would be one option that I would do.

01:51:44:02 – 01:51:52:06
Rod
The second option would be if you’re going to do it, you better study it like crazy. If you’re going to try to do it by yourself. Yeah. So would you agree with those two things 100%.

01:51:52:06 – 01:52:09:24
George
So, you know, it’s been said that, the intelligent learn from their mistakes, the wise learn from the mistakes of others. So read, read, go to seminars, go go to seminars. Don’t don’t hopefully let your business become a seminar. And that’s one of the thing my my partners say all the time, you know, when things go wrong, like, hey, this is a seminar.

01:52:10:01 – 01:52:20:17
George
So, one of the ways you can learn is just jump into it so, you know, hey, get as much education as you you can, but you have to jump into it and continue to learn.

01:52:20:17 – 01:52:21:11
Rod
And don’t dabble.

01:52:21:15 – 01:52:41:16
George
Yeah. Don’t dabble. So so I know that I said, look, I invest widely, but let me make this clear. When you are an operator, stay in your lane. Right. So if you’re a multifamily operator, that’s what I do when I syndicate. Right? I stay in my lane. I’m not trying to syndicate 5 or 6 different types of commercial real estate.

01:52:41:18 – 01:53:01:03
George
I’m not starting my own early stage companies. You know, when I do that, I’m investing, like you said, with somebody who knows what they’re doing. And I do a lot of research. So what I would say is that, you know, when you when you’re an operator and you’d be an active stay in your lane when you’re passive, no reason why you should have to put all your eggs in one basket.

01:53:01:03 – 01:53:03:04
Rod
Okay, okay. That’s okay. That’s the distinction.

01:53:03:04 – 01:53:05:05
George
Yeah, exactly. We agree more than we disagree.

01:53:05:05 – 01:53:17:15
Rod
Okay, I think I think we do. Okay. By the way, George has a podcast called The Foundry. Just like it sounds, interesting. I’m going to have to check it out, but let’s talk about your opinion of entrepreneurship and the importance of it.

01:53:17:17 – 01:53:36:20
George
Well, I started a little later. I was in my 40s, and, you know, a lot of the great entrepreneurs of the world, like Jeff Bezos, Henry Ford, Steve Jobs, you know, it’s really when they became entrepreneurs, that’s when they found the passion. That’s when they found the fire. And that’s how they became the people like Jeff Bezos.

01:53:36:20 – 01:53:58:25
George
He was a, investment banker. I mean, I’m sure that he was set by the time he founded Amazon, but he decided he’d rather take an old door and put that over a couple of bookcases, call that a desk. Then to continue to work as an investment banker. And the world is a better place for it. So, you know, another story I tell you is Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank.

01:53:58:27 – 01:54:08:19
George
He tells a story about how he hated working for other people. And he says some of the best entrepreneurs were bad employees. And one day, yeah, I’m.

01:54:08:19 – 01:54:09:06
Rod
Raising my hand.

01:54:09:08 – 01:54:17:21
George
Exactly. Yeah. Here, I’ll raise the hand to. I had a lot of trouble, because, look, if you happen to like Winston Churchill, you might remember Gallipoli.

01:54:17:21 – 01:54:18:04
Rod
I love.

01:54:18:05 – 01:54:18:15
George
With this.

01:54:18:22 – 01:54:20:11
Rod
I’ve got his quotes on my desk.

01:54:20:13 – 01:54:56:11
George
Beautiful. Yeah, well, and he’s a great one to follow. He’s amazing. And, you know, Dardanelles. And for years, he would be heckled when he was sort of in the wilderness, Dardanelles. Dardanelles. And he said, well, I learned a lesson from that. And, you know, for those who haven’t go, go look up the story of the Dardanelles and what happened and how World War One could have been very different if, Britain had gone into the Dardanelles with force and, he said to never attempt to lead an operation of primary importance from a position of secondary importance.

01:54:56:15 – 01:55:01:27
George
People talk about leading from behind, and you have to have charisma to be a leader. You have to do the job before you get.

01:55:01:27 – 01:55:15:28
Rod
Promoted to the job. Hold on, hold on. I want to dissect what you just said because that’s an interesting quote. So, so never take on, a task of primary importance from a position of secondary importance. Can you give an example of what you mean by that?

01:55:15:28 – 01:55:22:02
George
Right. Okay. So I’ll just take the Dardanelles. If they had gone up, the Dardanelles and essentially cut.

01:55:22:03 – 01:55:23:10
Rod
Dardanelles, is that it? Yeah.

01:55:23:12 – 01:55:46:26
George
Yeah, exactly. So let me let me build it up here. We’ll back up, I promise. All right. And and so if essentially they had been able to get through to the, to the Black Sea and essentially aid Russia and cut Turkey off in World War one, things would have been different. But they didn’t do it right. They went in there with some gunboats and, you know, the order was take the straits by water.

01:55:46:26 – 01:56:08:23
George
How do you take straits by water? Right. You might be able to, you know, fire, you know, shoot up a couple of old fort fortifications, which is what they’re what existed there. But if you didn’t go immediately in with the land troops, it’s lost. And by the time they did, half a million were lost. A lot of that was, Australia, New Zealand, they paid very heavily for that.

01:56:08:25 – 01:56:17:28
George
They realized that that was an objective of primary importance. But because they didn’t do it properly and because he wasn’t able to lead it, they.

01:56:17:28 – 01:56:18:29
Rod
Didn’t give it everything.

01:56:19:00 – 01:56:23:18
George
They didn’t give it everything. And he was not in a position to lead that. And I did the same thing.

01:56:23:21 – 01:56:25:14
Rod
I mean, when you say he was Churchill.

01:56:25:14 – 01:56:40:19
George
Churchill. Exactly. And I’ve got the same thing. You know, I try to be an entrepreneur here in, in a corporate situation. And I tried to to lead a very big project from a position where I was not the decision maker and I paid a hefty price for it.

01:56:40:19 – 01:57:02:00
Rod
Well, even as an entrepreneur, you know, and this speaks to the dilution conversation. Okay. You know, maybe not in passive investing, but definitely actively. You know, there was a time I had a two frozen yogurt shops. I was I, I was buying houses, I had a carpet cleaning business. I had, you know, vending carts downtown Denver selling ice cream bars.

01:57:02:00 – 01:57:19:02
Rod
And everything suffered because I was diluted. And, and, and I was definitely treating them as if they were secondary type relationships, you know, secondary, initiatives. And and so it ties in, I mean, it’s a it’s a parallel to what you just described.

01:57:19:05 – 01:57:36:27
George
Absolutely. Yeah. So just to bring it all home, even though in the end he was vindicated. And I think history sees that if they had followed his plan, world War One would have been different. He suffered tremendously for it, in my case, where I was in the corporate world and trying to lead the project, that I thought that the company should have been working on.

01:57:37:02 – 01:58:04:29
George
I eventually won an award for my work, but in the meantime I suffered tremendously. So what I’ve learned is that, you know, a lot of us, we have that creativity, we have that visionary leadership. But if for whatever reason, the corporate environment didn’t shine a light on you and you feel like you are that visionary leader, and you’re willing to take the risks and you’re willing to take it on the chin when you have a seminar, then go out on your own and you’ll find out.

01:58:05:04 – 01:58:16:06
George
And if you do, don’t turn out to be Jeff Bezos, Henry Ford, Steve Jobs. You may find that you have a life that’s much grander than you ever envisioned, because you’re willing to take those risks.

01:58:16:06 – 01:58:33:24
Rod
You are willing to take risks. So those of you that haven’t taken a risk yet, I hope you heard what he just said. And and you’re dead on. You’ve got to be able to you know, push through fear, push through comfort, get uncomfortable. Maybe you’ve got some limiting beliefs that are holding you back, and you’ve got to push through that stuff.

01:58:33:24 – 01:58:36:29
Rod
You’ve got to want it more. You’ve got to. How did you say it?

01:58:36:29 – 01:58:52:26
George
Yeah. If your passion is better than your fear, you take the step and it won’t even seem. I mean, I want to say I won’t even seem uncomfortable. Yes, it will seem uncomfortable, but it’ll be. Is it less uncomfortable than wondering how things might have been? You know, like they say, choose your heart.

01:58:52:27 – 01:59:09:20
Rod
Yeah. That’s it. Choose your heart, you know. That’s right. No, that’s that’s a great. That’s a great one. So talk about, you know what we’re getting, we’re running a little along here, but talk about, a time you had a seminar that you had your butt kicked. Well, we got tons of.

01:59:09:21 – 01:59:28:05
George
I’m sure there’s tons of them. Absolutely. Like I said, even my success story. You want to hear my victory story? My first deal, we we came in, we got better than market. 4% was our financing. We had no covenants, so we could do whatever. Ten unit, 14 unit. Yeah. And we were to kick everybody out one at a time.

01:59:28:05 – 01:59:49:16
George
Right. Go at our own pace and our 50% occupancy. We funded the construction ourselves. We did things that you can’t do on someone else’s dime. Right? Because we used seller financing when it was other people’s money and our own money for the rest. And in the meantime, you know what else happened? Well, we had, you know, the pandemic rates went up like crazy.

01:59:49:16 – 02:00:19:18
George
Things took a little longer than we expected. Were we able to refinance on time and make that great big payday? No, but we refinanced when rates were close to their peak and we still had a really fine payday. Yeah, we, we didn’t have a construction loan where we had to worry about other people coming in and saying, you know, hey, I don’t like your, you know, either your occupancy or hey, it hasn’t been 16 to 18 months, you know, pull the plug and have to refinance or something else.

02:00:19:20 – 02:00:34:24
George
You know, when you finance these things, right, you can handle all the things that go wrong. We doubled our rents, we had a great payday, and we’re going to have an even greater payday when the rates come down. And when we sell it, that’s going to be a third fabulous payday. So even the good ones are really hard.

02:00:34:24 – 02:00:53:14
George
I could tell you about another deal where everything went right for, three years, and then we had a sinkhole and. Yeah, yeah. Oh, really bad. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s Tennessee, it’s it’s serious. And that thing happens. And if you had asked me like a year ago, you know, have you ever had a deal where nothing went wrong, that would have been the deal that I would have told you about.

02:00:53:16 – 02:01:00:25
George
But we had a pipe burst early this year after 2 or 2 and a half or three years of beautiful operations where nothing was just.

02:01:00:25 – 02:01:01:27
Rod
A single family.

02:01:02:00 – 02:01:22:06
George
This is, multifamily, 34 units. Tennessee. Yeah. And we were paying 12% on a 7% profit. So, I mean, when I’m telling you, things are going well, I’m not lying to you, but even the perfect deal has something go wrong? There’s going to be a pipe that bursts, and then you can have a sinkhole and, you know, you got to deal with that.

02:01:22:06 – 02:01:31:13
George
But I can tell you some other things like, my first, my first construction project. People brought out the pitchforks. It was nuts. There was a local.

02:01:31:13 – 02:01:32:18
Rod
Realtor who wanted to go in.

02:01:32:18 – 02:01:47:19
George
No, a local realtor said, oh, these people are going to come build this houses. They’re going to make your, 1970s ranch look like a garage. Well, let me tell you something. That, in this world, jealousy is real.

02:01:47:22 – 02:02:03:28
Rod
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And you, you come to the realization you can never make everybody happy. Well, I told you we had to circle back to Covid for. Let’s circle back to. Okay. Let’s do. I forgot about that. So, so, you know, I did it come from Wuhan, number one. What are your thoughts there?

02:02:03:28 – 02:02:19:03
George
Well, I think everybody believes it did. The only question is whether it escaped from the lab. And, you know, there is some circumstantial evidence for that. You know, I don’t I don’t want to go any further on that because, again, it hasn’t been proven. Okay. But but as you know, a lot of these.

02:02:19:06 – 02:02:20:25
Rod
It is it scientists.

02:02:20:28 – 02:02:43:27
George
100% because I do hedge a little bit, you know. Hey, what does science really I mean, it’s a method that’s been unreasonably successful in unraveling the world, right? And we think of it as this thing that’s all about proving, and it’s proofs and it’s theorems, and it’s all about tying things together seven ways to Sunday. But really, what moves it forward is these paradigm shifts.

02:02:44:04 – 02:03:00:06
George
And that’s what moves it forward in a big way, but moves it forward in a small way every day, which leads to the paradigm shifts, is these hypotheses. And you have to have both a creative mind as well as an analytic mind to make it there. So you know, exactly, where it came from. We’ll never know. Yeah.

02:03:00:09 – 02:03:09:06
George
But that’s why I don’t just I don’t discount anything. And when I heard everybody discounting that, I thought, you know, that’s ridiculous. And now that might even be for many.

02:03:09:09 – 02:03:11:12
Rod
About the vaccine. It does look like.

02:03:11:15 – 02:03:38:25
George
So I don’t really come together that quickly. And generally I’m very much pro-vaccine. Yeah. But this it came together a little too fast and, you know, hey, the one of the people who was, in a way, leading it on the political side was the same guy who, was funding it. Well, there’s that too, but I was actually talking about the president who’s been able to get into some really difficult projects, like, for example, the the ice rink in the, in center of Central Park.

02:03:38:27 – 02:03:56:02
George
You know, he got that together after the city screwed it up for years. He got everybody talking together. And that, for me was a model. When I saw what he did with a vaccine, I thought, you know, it makes sense that he would get everybody from the academic scientists to the, corporate world working together and get that together.

02:03:56:02 – 02:04:08:20
George
And but, you know, again, it was rushed. It wasn’t perfect. It it wasn’t what we were told. And now I think we have to cover it. People say, trust the experts. Of course we should trust the experts. But who who do you trust?

02:04:08:23 – 02:04:21:28
Rod
You don’t know anymore, candidly. I mean, you you really, you know, with all the misinformation out there, with all the censorship, with all the propaganda, you really don’t know what to trust anymore. And it’s sad. I couldn’t agree with you. You got you got to you really have to do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

02:04:22:01 – 02:04:35:16
George
You do. And then people like that were maligned. And I remember I was, sitting in Vegas and some comedian says, like, yeah, I got my uncle who says he does his own research. And I’m thinking like, okay, well, fine. Your uncle’s probably not a PhD, right? But if you’re not thinking things through for yourself, what are you doing?

02:04:35:16 – 02:04:50:17
Rod
Yeah, exactly. Well, listen, I have to tell you, George, it’s been a lot of fun. Very, very wide ranging conversation I’ve never had on this show before. Check out his podcast, guys. The founder spelled foreign under why? Why is it pronounced that way or so?

02:04:50:17 – 02:05:05:00
George
It’s like founder with a Y, because it’s all about founders. And like I said, you you’re a business owner. Yeah. You’re not just an investor. Yeah. So make sure you understand what you’re doing, understand the entrepreneurship, understand the business. And so if you love entrepreneurship and you love real estate and private equity might be the show.

02:05:05:03 – 02:05:07:29
Rod
Love it, love it. Thanks for coming down here buddy. Appreciate you guys.

02:05:07:29 – 02:05:12:00
George
I want to say I greatly appreciate you having me on the show. One of my favorites. Thank you very much.

02:05:12:00 – 02:05:12:22
Rod
Thank you for that.