Ep #559 –  From Brain Surgeon to Multifamily Investor

Buck Joffrey had a massive career shift from a prestigious JOB to becoming a multifamily entrepreneur after reading Robert Kiyosaki’s book, Cash Flow Quadrant. We cover a lot including a deep dive into the current economy and why now is a great time for investors. Here’s some of what we covered:

  • Momentum of money
  • The power of leverage
  • Understanding the cash out refi
  • Where we are in the market cycle
  • Roaring 20’s ?
  • Why multifamily is the right asset class no matter what the economy does
  • The need to see it before you attain it
  • Manifesting
  • The advantage of the ‘C’ student
  • Analytical types: Why being good at what you’re good at isn’t enough.

To find out more about our guest:

Full Transcript Below:

Rod: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build a Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing.” I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here. I know you’re going to get tremendous value from the gentlemen I’m interviewing today. His name is Buck Joffrey and he’s a surgeon turned entrepreneur. He’s an investor. He’s host of the Wealth Formula Podcast. And I’ve been on his show and it’s a treat to have him in mine. Welcome, buddy.

Buck: Thanks for having me, Rod.

Rod: Absolutely. So maybe you can talk a little bit about your bio in much greater detail than I did, obviously, and just kind of bring our listeners up to speed on why you went from an incredibly high paying, very prestigious position to becoming an investor.

Buck: You know, it’s a classic story of the, you know, the highly successful A student. You know, when you are a very good student in school and you end up going to the fancy colleges and stuff, there’s really you go through this process of programming where you really only believe that you only have a couple of options.

You either go to medical school or law school or business school or whatever and go get your professional job. And I think I kind of fell into that the same way. I mean, being a good student, going into college and, you know, being a science major, getting A’s. I mean, what am I doing at eighteen years old? I know that I get positive feedback when I have success in school. So I’m looking for the next, you know, Pavlovian opiate.

And for me that was, you know, trying to get a you know, get a position that was respectable in society. So that’s where I went to medical school. It’s not that I didn’t want to do it. It also sounded interesting to me. But psychologically, the hierarchical issue was big for me. And I actually started out in neurosurgery. And of course, that is, again, you know, even within medicine, the brain surgeon and the neurosurgical, you know, image is at the top of that hierarchical part of medicine as well.

So, I did you know that through sort of a following programming, following the what to me felt like the pinnacle of success. But the issue became that, you know, I was never really truly all that engaged.

My heart wasn’t into it. And it wasn’t until reading some Robert Kiyosaki book by accident, I had no interest in personal finance. I discovered the idea of being an entrepreneur.

And believe it or not, it never occurred to me to be an entrepreneur in any sort of way to start anything myself, et cetera. I had never contemplated that. It always involved working for somebody or being a chairman of A department or whatever.

But when I read Robert Kiyosaki Cashflow Quadrant, the idea of entrepreneurship exposed itself to me and it hit me like a lightning bolt. And the rest is history, because I think at your core and you know this because I think you are an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur is you know, it’s not, you can learn to be an entrepreneur, but there are some people who at their core, that’s what they are. And so from that day forward, discovering that that’s that’s who I became.

And then I was an entrepreneur who also happen to be a doctor. So I continued to practice for a handful of years. But really, my focus became starting businesses, starting, you know, real estate ventures and, you know, and then ultimately also, you know, a podcast to try to teach people what I was doing.

Rod: Wow. I love that Pavilion opiate comment, yeah, so, you know, what’s fascinating is I think you are probably the most extreme example that I’ve ever met of someone coming to that realization about, you know, what we’re programmed to think is the path and you having that well. So let me ask you a question before I put words in your mouth. Did you have like this aha moment? Was it the book? Was that it? That was it. Yes?

Buck: I think it was, yeah. Because I never, it never, something about cash flow watering. And you know, I told Robert Kiyosaki, I was lucky to have met him a few times and, you know, to explain this to him. But there was something about that book that was just resonated with something at my core that really just changed everything. Believe me, I had every opportunity in many ways to, I had exposure to real estate. My dad is to this stage and his agency still, you know, landlord and stuff like that.

But the way he did it, in the way it looked to me through the optics of a teenager and that sort of thing did not look appealing whatsoever. Tenants, termites and the rest. But that book, it’s sometimes, it’s like how somebody tells it to you, right? How many times have you had something where you’ve heard it ten times. But the way somebody says something to you, the eleventh time you actually go, aha, I get it. And that’s what happened. Robert’s book.

Rod: No kidding. Yeah. It’s interesting because usually I hear this story around Rich Dad, Poor Dad, not Cashflow quadrant. And I agree as it relates to me as well, that was more eye opening for me than his first book.

But that’s fascinating. So I have to ask because you mentioned you brought up your dad. I have to ask, what was their reaction to your change in you know, in occupation. I mean, that’s a major, major change.

Buck: Yeah. You know, it’s funny because as you may be able to tell, my background is Indian se and my parents were immigrants in the sixties. And, you know, I think in their culture, there’s a huge premium on physicians. Right. Families are judged more on the number of physicians and engineers and highly educated individuals than they are the amount of money. And so the funny thing is that for me, my situation was a little different because my dad was an engineer who came to this country in the late sixties and he himself had an epiphany and became a real estate guy.

So he was literally taking his college scholarship money and buying duplexes so that the apple doesn’t fall apart. Right. Yes. Right.

So he was, when I told him I was going to go to medical school, his impulse initially was, why would you want to do that? So that’s a lot of years of school. I make a lot more money than doctors. And at the time I laughed him off. I didn’t think that he knew what he was talking about.

And to a certain degree, he didn’t right. I’m a different person than him. And certain things were important to me that were not to him.

But at the end of the day, there was some truth to what he said. And I was just what he was saying is, he was trying to, in his own way, trying to challenge me to say, well, you know, why do you want to do that? Is it because of the money? And, you know, people think doctors make a lot of money. Well, you know, I make more than doctors. So why would you want to spend all those years?

And he knew it would have to. So they were not, believe me, they were not heartbroken. In fact, now, you know, now I control half a billion dollars of real estate. And my dad, the only, my dad’s not one of my investors, by the way.

Rod: That’s awesome.

Buck: For years and years, he didn’t understand, like, what I was doing and what I want. You know, why I was doing it. Finally, I got into this and he totally gets it. And his big thing is I wish I had done what you were doing now because he has been a one man show. He’s the landlord. He literally goes and collects rent still. He’s eighty.

Rod: Oh, no kidding.

Buck: Oh, well, because he doesn’t trust anybody.

Rod: Right. Right, that’s old school. Yeah. You know, I immigrated to this country in the sixties as well. So that resonated a little bit with me. But you know, I’ve heard about that incredible pressure in some cultures as it relates to occupation. And that’s why I want to ask the question when. So anyway, I kind of when we went off on a tangent there, thank you for doing that.

So, you know, I know one of the things that you’re known for, obviously, the name of your podcast is the Wealth Formula. He is the nuts and bolts of a Wealth Formula. In your view, your view of the world. Can you speak to that? Let’s go a little micro on that, if you don’t mind.

Buck: Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that, one of the things that I attribute my own financial success to is, you know, one of the things I’m really good at and I used to, I’m a trained surgeon. And what surgery came down to for me in learning surgery was breaking, you know, this big, complicated image of a procedure and act into tiny little steps and breaking it into pieces. Because when you understand those little pieces in those, you know, move to move, you can pretty much learn everything. I really believe that. And you, there’s surgeons, you know, surgeons I know love to make it seem like everything is so darn complicated. But, you know, when you start doing the same thing over and over again, it doesn’t feel that complicated to you anymore.

And you probably have things that you do that seem really complicated, that in your head they don’t feel that complicated anymore and it’s because you’ve broken them down to their elements. For me, I wanted to do the same thing for wealth and for, you know, understanding my background is academic. And, you know, I’m a you know, I was also almost a history major and stuff. But at the end of the day, I really identified as a scientist and a math-science guy.

And so I remember looking at an equation. It was a Newton’s equation for momentum. And I’m reminded of momentum. Right. Momentum and momentum has a feature that is very much like what you want when you think about growing your own wealth. Newton, do you find physical momentum is the product of mass times velocity? So basically, you know, in layman’s terms, how much something weighs or something and then how fast it’s going right?

And so it occurred to me that there was a lot of parallels with that. And the concepts that I was looking at in terms of what really at its core brings people who I know who’ve created a lot of wealth, what elements there are. And coincidentally, I thought, well, mass and velocity actually explains quite a bit.

Mass in financial terms would be, well, you know, how much do you invest? Right. Because a lot of people make a paycheck. They don’t invest very much. Maybe you don’t make enough to invest, but the more you can free up to invest, you know, the more you’re actually going to be able to create more money because of these investments. So if you don’t have any money, you don’t invest, then your, doesn’t matter what the rest of the equation is, you’re going to zero out.

The next piece of this is velocity. Now velocity, again, in the terms of financial and financial terms, sometimes we talk about the, you know, the velocity of money. And when I think of velocity money, I think about it in terms of my investments. I define that is how quickly it takes me to from the point that I invest that money into something, that point at which I am return that principle so that I can invest it into something else.

So you can look at this as a return on investment.

People might say 10 percent return on investment, et cetera. And what that means is if it’s a 10 percent cash on cash return, really what that’s telling you is you’ll get your money back in your pocket. It become whole in about 10 years.

Now, listen, that’s not the worst thing in the world. 10 percent is really quite good. But here’s the thing.

The magic that everybody who makes a lot of money, who’s created a lot of wealth, understands and knows that you can’t, it’s almost impossible just to take these two elements, mass and velocity, and change your place in society. You’re not going to go from middle class to, you know, to being hyper rich by just using massive loss.

And that’s, you know, what you’re hoping to when you invest in the S&P 500, just you’re getting your seven percent per year.

There’s one more variable that’s critical to that and one that is, in many regards, controversial in financial talk, and that’s leverage, right? So wealth in my book, is a product of mass times velocity, all amplified by multiplying it by leverage, leverages of other people’s money, bank money, et cetera. But the value of it is that mass times velocity, you may get your money back in, you know, 10 years with doing it one way, but if you add leverage, you may get your money back in half the time.

So, the whole concept for me became like, how quickly can I get my money back in my pocket? And leverage amplifies that. And the real life example that probably a lot of people are I’m sure a lot of people and your listeners are familiar with is the cash-out refi.

Right. If you add equity or you create, you get appreciation and you cash out of something, but you still have all the equity and you redeploy that into something else, that creates, in effect, some kind of infinite return model. And that’s really, if you do that over and over, you can make a lot of money. Now, one last thing I’ll add to that. Conceptually, if you think about what we’re talking about, mass, this kind of becomes like a feed forward cycle, because one of the things we said before is if you don’t have mass, you don’t have money to invest, then it’s going to be hard to create the wealth.

But here’s the beauty of it. Now, because you’re using leverage and you’re focusing on velocity, you’re not just expecting to put more and more money into this. You’re actually recycling the capital you’ve put in and you put it back into the system and do the same thing over and over again. So to me, that’s what I call Wealth 2.0 perspective. And it’s hopefully that makes sense.

Rod: No, it absolutely does. And that’s that, I know that’s what you do. I’m sure that’s what you do. And your assets and investments, just like we do. You know, the name of the game is refinance within three to five years, get all or most of the money back to our investors and ourselves, and then redeploy it and and continue to enjoy the cash flow from that first asset, not necessarily sell it, keep it like you say, refinance it and you’re off to the races on the next one.

So I love it. Let’s talk for a minute about where we are in the market cycle. You know, before we started recording, we’re thinking about some great topics. And that’s when you enjoy talking about. So why don’t we go there? Let’s talk, how do you feel about where we are and what is your crystal ball? Tell us about what could be coming.

Buck: Well, I don’t have a crystal ball, obviously, but here’s what I think. I think that if you look at what people had been predicting over the last six months, you know, they were most people, not most people, but a lot of people, high profile people, even within real estate who are generally bullish in real estate. We’re predicting a zombie apocalypse. And, you know, at the very beginning, I wasn’t sure which way it was going to go.

But about three months into it. Rod, I think, you probably, you know, being in the market yourself, you started to understand that darn this multifamily asset, particularly for us, the working class space is pretty darn resilient.

Rod: Yep.

Buck: To what was happening. And so we actually ended up doing just fine. And in some of our assets actually, you know, outperformed pretty Covid levels, which was a surprise to everybody. Right. It surprised us. Now, you know, I think that this year, barring something completely unexpected, we will continue to see recovery and then ultimately sort of the, hopefully the end of the covid issue.

Now, there is a lot of recovery to go on in the economy. If you clearly, we’ve been in a recession and we are starting a new cycle. But you know, what’s really confusing for people in real estate and multifamily real estate is, hey, weren’t we supposed to have some big correction?

No, we didn’t really have a big correction. And for a couple of reasons. One reason was, interest rates fell and that caused cap rates to compress even more.

And the next thing which we’re feeling, and I’m sure you are, is that other people in other asset classes, hotels and real estate and office, big money that was in that region in retail, and they looked to see what we were doing and how we were doing. And they were like, holy cow, these guys did just fine. So all of the sudden, all of this money that sitting in the stuff that got completely devastated all of a sudden is jumping into multifamily apartment buildings, no, we have not seen and I don’t believe we will over the course of the next several years, a big dip in the market, because I think even Jerome Powell, I think, has given us a pretty good indication that there’s not a real appetite from the Fed to do anything disruptive to interest rates. And I think that that process of low interest rates is probably going to continue for the next three to four years. Extremely low interest rates. I think the demand will continue.

And I think that the Fed’s ultimate goal is to create inflation. And knowing that I think we’re positioned quite well. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, I think it’s challenging for people to wrap their heads around when these large assets that are trading at sub five cap rates, that how can this actually be a good time to buy? But I anticipate actually it’s going to be, it’s going to be more competitive in two years than it is today.

Rod: Yeah, interesting. You know, I have a contrarian mindset only maybe because of what I suffered through in 2008 and how this feels like it’s frothy to me, like it was in 2006-2007 for me. But that said, everything you just said is very compelling. You know, I think what concerns me is two things. One, I know there according to an article I read Whoknows, I did in fact check it. But there are 40 million people that are either facing eviction or facing foreclosure in this country, which is a significant number.

You know, and then the other piece is, is the stimulus and the fact that we’re where our national debt is going to be 30 trillion. And so, you know, I have these visions of hundred dollar, loaves of bread, you know, and but so who knows? I do think that, you know, that stimulus certainly, you know, this economy is run, is driven by consumer spending. And of course, the stimulus helps with that.

But it’ll be interesting to see. I do believe multifamily will weather whatever happens. I’m just not so sure we’ve actually seen the recession that, you know, you’re saying that that covid was the recession. I actually think there’s still more coming, but that’s why I love multifamily.

Buck: Yeah, I think we have a ways, right? I think we have a ways. I mean, it’s going to be even if we added two hundred, even if we even added more jobs than we’ve ever had before, it’ll still take a couple of years to get to the same level of employment, et cetera.

But, you know, okay, let’s let’s just step out of our, you know, your typical macroeconomic forecasting for a second. And just to me, sometimes I used this, my Spidey sense, okay, and maybe that’s not a good way to go, but it seems to work for me sometimes. And in this situation, I look at the Covid, I look at the Covid world.

And I think to myself, what are all the things I want to do when this is over? And I think about all the travel and I think about all the concerts and I think about all the money I want to spend. Right. And I can’t be the only one. Yeah. And if that’s the case, guess what? Roaring Twenties,

Rod: We’re good.

Buck: Yeah, and Roaring Twenties, you’re going to in my, my, my non economists sense is that it’s going to be rocking and rolling. GDP is going to be growing at record rates for the next few years. That’s what I really believe is going to happen. If that happens, I think not only are we in the right asset class if it doesn’t happen, but being where we are, I mean, and

Rod: Definitely the right asset class either way. Either way, it’s the right asset class. You know, back in 2008, when the market crashed, within three years, the rents were back to 2006-2007 levels. I mean, three years. That’s all it took to recover. And, you know, we are, and I mean, you know, don’t get me started on retail and office right now. They’re gasping for air. And so, you know,

Buck: Where’s that money going to go, Rod? That’s the question. Right. That’s another thing to think about for multifamily retail is only going to get hammered even more.

Rod: Yeah. Yeah. Amazon. You bet. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Buck: Everybody’s learned how to work from home

Rod: And they like it and they like it.

Buck: That’s cheaper for business,

Rod: Right. Absolutely. And I thank God we were virtual before it happened. But, you know, it’s you know, until they come up with other uses, you know, we’re seeing hotels getting converted to multi and, you know, it’s a long, long, laborious, painful process. But we’re seeing, you know, you know, repositioning of office buildings even in some cases. And so it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens to those asset classes.

But, you know, I love self-storage and mobile home parks. I know, you know, warehouse is still doing great. Industrial, of course, is doing great. So, you know, those are the two that got hammered. But so, that’s very interesting, very compelling argument for your position. You know, I had Harry Dent on my podcast and of course, his doom and gloom guy and Peter Schiff as well. And of course, they’ve been talking about a crash and they think it’s happening like any day. And so, you know, but, you know, Peter, I think sells gold and. Harry, well, I will say this about Harry, though. And the reason that I gave his interview so much credit is I saw him speak over 20 years ago.

And had I listen to him, I would have gotten out of residential real estate and I would have lost 50 million dollars. So I was really compelled to listen to him this time because he nailed it. He totally nailed the crash. But so we’ll see.

Buck: You know, here’s the problem with those guys, though, and I’ve had both of them on my show and actually kind of like, I think Peter does have a little bit more of an agenda. But here, I think he says what he believes. And I think there’s a lot of value in following, especially in his demographic data. If you look at I mean, you know, based on that, I would look at 2030 and say, get the hell out of every market.

But what’s interesting about these guys is that, listen, doom and gloom has to tell you and you know as well as I do, you’re in the podcast space. Doom and gloom and fear sells, okay? And even, you know, even a clock that’s not working is right at least twice a day. Right? Peter has predicted the last seven of the two recessions that we’ve had

And so, you know, I’m not I don’t you know, I don’t take a lot of what he says here. I don’t even know if he believes it sometimes he’s really smart. I don’t.

Rod: Oh, he’s really smart.

Buck: But he’s a really smart guy. But I just don’t really believe that. I just don’t buy into his theories. I really don’t.

Rod: All right.Before we leave this topic, you know, it’s funny you said about negative sales, I did a YouTube video on the coming real estate crash of 2021. I mean, I got so much hate. Oh, my God. I’ve never had so much hate in the thread.

But this man has watched YouTube video ever like I think I don’t know, 80, 90 hundred thousand views. It’s crazy and it’s just a just a testament to what you just said. But let’s talk for a minute about the trillions that are going into the economy. Do you feel like, does that give you pause at all?

Buck: Not really. I mean, I think what does it do? What are we worried about with those trillions going into the economy? We’re worried about inflation, right? So as long as you’re not sitting on your cash and it’s not in assets, inflation actually helps us.

Rod: Yeah

Buck: Inflation, particularly real estate investors who are using the big L word leverage.

Rod: Right.

Buck: Because let’s, just as a reminder, I know you know this, but what happens to debt during inflation? Inflation erodes debt. So, if you, let’s look back at your parents home that they bought in the 1970s, they bought it for fifty thousand or twenty thousand dollars and they took it, they took the it’s fifty thousand dollars and they took a thirty thousand dollar loan. Today that house is worth

Rod: Three hundred

Buck: Three hundred. How much do they owe on it?

Rod: Nothing.

Buck: Nothing. Back then it seemed like a lot. Right. So inflation. Erodes debt, it is actually a very positive thing for real estate investors because we use so much leverage, it’s almost like we’re printing our own money.

Rod: Yeah, because the rents, the rents, the yeah. The amount of the rents will go up. The debt coverage will not go up. The cost of the debt will not go up. I’m sorry. The cost of the debt will not go up. And so yeah, the value of the dollar may be less, but as it relates to the assets that we have, it’s an incredible hedge against inflation. So that’s a great answer. All right.

Well, let’s shift again. You know, I love the psychology of success. I love to talk about mindset and psychology. And you do as well. I understand. I was actually, surprised me because I know you’re super analytical. So give me your view on mindset and psychology as it relates to someone’s success. Just how where you want to answer that?

Buck: Yeah, well, I think that at it’s, fundamentally, you cannot have that which you don’t imagine first. And in order for you to have anything, you have to have it in your mind. You have to see it. And that in itself is not, I think for, I’m an analytical guy. Yes, but here’s the thing. Here’s a fact that before anybody, anybody who’s out there who got married and had children, they imagined being married and having children, right, I think that the problem with the problem is that if you can’t imagine it, it’ll never happen. I think that’s a fundamental fact.

Rod: And by the way, let me be clear. I wasn’t, what I meant by that is I know you’re talking it at a deeper level topics on your podcast. And that’s what I meant by that by that comment about analytical. Everybody that’s analytical as hopes and dreams and and very successful people that come from that background, from that place, you know, utilize mindset and psychology to get what they want.

That’s the reason I said that. So, yeah, you have to see it. So, yeah, there’s absolutely no question, which is why I spent so much time on it, because so many people are caught up in fear and limiting beliefs and comfort. But anything to add?

Buck: Yeah. I mean I would say one more thing that I think that’s important and one thing that I feel like I’ve discovered in the last few years. Is that that vision has to be big, has to be, you know, because what I found in the last few years and I’m again going into this different world, I consider myself a fairly I don’t use vision boards and stuff, but I am a pretty potent manifester.

Rod: Why do you think that is?

Buck: I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s not something that I can really explain. But what I know is that when I get something in my head, it is effectively a vision board, right?

Rod: Oh, yeah. That’s why.

Buck: But I think that, what with vision boards and stuff, I think they’re particularly helpful for people who are not innately powerful manifester. So I feel like in my life I have been a powerful manifester.

And one of the things that I realized and unfortunately this takes time, you know, it’s a course of five, 10, 15 years at a time and you learn these lessons. But sometimes when you think about something and you manifest something, you’re only manifesting to the next level. Right.

So, say it’s a financial thing because, you know, this can be this is going to be a ton of different anything. Right. But let’s say just it’s easier to understand in financial terms if we make you know, if you’re somebody who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year and you’re getting you know, you’re eight, ten thousand dollars a month, you may imagine what it would be like and think, wow, wouldn’t it be great to make fifty thousand dollars a month instead of ten?

And that seems like that’s in your head. Fantastic. And then one day you get there and you’re like, man, but somebody else is making a half million a month. Right? And I wonder what that’s like. And then you have to stepwise go to the next step. So, I think the and I have not tried this, but it is something I am kind of thinking about consciously trying to do now is trying to skip the step because

Rod: Go straight to the big number

Buck: Because you’re almost constantly, when you do this, you’re in. I don’t know what your experience has been, but it’s almost like you’re always a step behind. You get there and you’re like, damn, that’s what I wanted. But now I want something bigger. So is there a way and I’ll leave it to you.

Rod: No, no, that’s that’s really funny because I’m in the same place right now. So I’ll share this. I didn’t plan to share this publicly because you brought it up. I’m going to mention it. I used to have the sign above my bed said one hundred thousand a month.

Yeah, I’ve eclipsed that, you know, but but now that that number is ten times that, it’s like, you know what? I’m not going to just go to two, three, four hundred thousand. Let’s go let’s throw a million up there and see what happens. I know it works, but you know, one thing I noticed about you, Buck, it’s very interesting. You talked you know, you don’t have a vision board and you’re not you know, you don’t need that visual picture.

But when we’re talking, I noticed that your eyes go up, kind of go back up in your head and you’re searching your brain. And I would guess that you’ve probably got really clear mental pictures because, you know, because your ability to think and analyze and you know that maybe maybe that’s why you don’t need the actual physical picture of something. I don’t know. I’m just just spinning.

Buck: I don’t know if it’s clear, like photographic kind of images, but I think I throw it into

Rod: The ether.

Buck: The ether. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, I start, I you know, you talk about limiting beliefs and stuff. I think that for me, I have to figure out, like, am I doing something right now that would prevent me from getting from this point to this other point that I think I want to be.

If there is that, then you need to correct it. Because, you know, I’ve always believed in this concept of being able to manifest. But I also think that you do need to help it along a little bit. Right. Like, if you are doing something on a daily basis and it’s consuming all your time, it’s going to be very, very difficult to do it. In a way, it becomes a roadblock to what you’re trying to do and what you want to accomplish in your life. So you do once in a while, I have to stop and say, okay, here’s my goal.

Is my current trajectory in my life actually going to give me the chance for that to be possible right? So I find myself in my head often throwing it, throwing ideas and things like that into the ether and then checking myself to make sure is there anything that I’m doing right now or not doing that is going to prevent this from happening?

I almost feel like I don’t necessarily have to force it to happen, but if it’s in the ether and nothing’s in the way, it sometimes seems to find a way.

Rod: Interesting. No, that’s very interesting. You know, you said something that I want to speak to because, you know, I have a lot of analytical listeners and they are the hardest to get across the finish line to actually take action because they have to check off all the boxes. Now, you are an exception to that. Obviously, you’ve taken massive action.

And this is an expression, if you’re in your head, you’re dead. You know, that’s that analysis by paralysis dynamic. Can you speak to those people that, coz you can do a better job than I can about pushing through that for a moment.

Buck: Yeah, well, you know, I think let’s go back to the, why people are the way they are. You know, Robert Kiyosaki is famous for saying, you know, A students work for C students and B, students work for the government. Right. And so Robert’s tax advisor, Tom Wheelwright, Tom’s my CPA, too. And we were talking about this once. And I said to Tom because Tom was an A student. And I said, you know, Tom, the one thing that Robert always skips in this whole thing was that the C students never really had that much to lose.

I mean, like, if you were an A student, you were getting everything right and you get the positive feedback and you get your grades to show when you get to brag. And the teachers patted you on the back and the C students never had all of that, right.

So they had nothing to lose. So, yeah, that’s fine. They work for this, but there’s a reason for that because what happened with them is they were not afraid to fail and there were out there making their way, creating their lives, because it was very clear to them that they were not going to just, you know, live the academic dream and be the top of the class and be the smartest and go do stuff.

So they had to think early on about, hey, you know, I’m going to do something, I’m going to do something big and who cares about the school thing? So they got a head start. The analytical types who were doing really, really well in school, they actually are trapped.

They have a bigger hurdle than anybody else because they have to get past this notion of, you know, just being good at what they are good at isn’t good enough for what they want to achieve in their lives.

Rod: Oh, yeah, yeah. Good, good, good stuff. Good stuff. I hope you guys heard that. You know, it is harder for you. It’s harder for you. Those of you that are super analytical. And I get that. And that’s why I do everything I can to try to push you to take action, because action mitigates that fear. And it’s counterintuitive, that fear of failure. I would just encourage you to fear regret more than failure, because to me, I can’t imagine anything worse than regret at the end of your life.

But, Buck, this has been a real treat. Thank you so much. You’ve got a good value today my friend and Mengiste go to go check out his Wealth Formula podcast and just I appreciate you coming on. So good to see you.

Buck: All right. Take care.

Rod: All right thanks!