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Ep #393 – Matt Picheny – Building Your Multifamily Team

Here is some of what you will learn:

  • The value of relationship building
  • The importance of a great management company
  • The key team players on a deal
  • The law of the first deal
  • The value of a tax consultant

To find out more about our guest: click here  To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 41411 or email Join us at a Multifamily Bootcamp, visit:

Full Transcript Below:

Ep #393 – Matt Picheny – Building Your Multifamily Team

Hi! I’m Rod Khleif. Each and every week I record an interview with a thought leader that I know you’re gonna get a ton of value from. Now here on YouTube are the video versions of my podcast, Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. Now to make sure you get the latest information please subscribe and hit the notification bell. Let’s get started.

Rod: Welcome to another edition of How to Build a Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here, and I know you’re gonna get value from the gentlemen I’m interviewing today. His name’s Matt Picheny and I met Matt at a one-day event that he was am seeing up in Boston recently for some friends of mine, and so Matt is in about 2,000 doors passively and actively. He’s the managing partnered MJPProperty Group and their website is and, you know, Matt’s got a very interesting background, and that he’s done project management, he’s done advertising, he’s, actually, in theater as well. So, it’s fascinating. So, let’s get into it. Matt, welcome to the show brother.

Matt: Hey, Rod. Thanks for having me on here. It’s a real pleasure.

Rod: Absolutely. Now, you were just saying right before we started recording that you also run a meet-up, and where is that exactly?

Matt: I do. We run a meetup in Newton, Massachusetts. So, right at, we’re just outside of Boston.

Rod: Okay.

Matt: Meet monthly and, you know, the whole point of it is to educate people at all different levels whether, you know, you’re just never done anything in real estate or you got five thousand doors to just come together and help one another and we have good topics. But it’s really more about the networking and building the relationships with one another.

Rod: Sure, sure. Well, you know, we were talking about where you could add the most value on the show and you speak regularly in front of your meet,-up, obviously, and you’re starting to talk about a deal you just did and the title of your little presentation called With the Help of My Friend. So, why don’t we talk about that? That sounds like a great topic and how you took that deal down and, you know, why don’t we go there?

Matt: Oh, thanks Rod.

Rod: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. I titled it With a Little Help from My Friends, probably, because I’m just such a big Beatles fan and there’s that, that famous Beatles song and but I really think that’s really what has helped me get deals, especially, in such a competitive market that you have here. It’s really that relationship, building those relationships and those turning into friendships. And so, what I did for that presentation in front of the group was just talk about the relationships that I’ve built in a particular market; how I built those relationships; and sort of how, you know, from the time I decided on that market, which is three years ago, through all of the building of relationships, meeting people, putting the team together and then, talking about, you know, all the way up to when I, you know, I syndicate my deals. And so, right up to the time I had an investment deck ready to syndicate. And I feel like that’s sort of the thing that passive investors don’t necessarily know about or people that are looking to become syndicators, there’s some great education out there; teaching people how to look at deals, how to analyze it, but sort of I feel like it’s a little bit behind a curtain from, alright, once you’re just about ready to get that LOI in or once you get into best and final to the point where that investor deck is ready and all the different mechanics that are going on. And it’s important to have relationships and have a team to help support you with that.

Rod: So, let’s talk about some of the components of your team. Some of the people. I mean, if you, you know, just talk about the different pieces that you put together and if you wanna name names, you’re certainly welcome to, you don’t have to, but I’m really more interesting the roles that you brought in to help you in that process.

Matt: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the first thing that one of the most important things when I first went into that market was …

Rod: By the way, do you mind sharing in the market?

Matt: That’s fine. Its Kansas City.

Rod: Kansas City. Okay.

Matt: Kansas City, you know, I mean, it’s a decent market. It’s not a Dallas or an Orlando, right? But I think it’s a nice steady city but just like all cities across the United States, I think people are having a hard time finding good deals.

Rod: Sure.

Matt: You know, the asset prices are very, very high. Cap rates are compressed so, not any different in that market. I chose that market because I had spent some time there and I had a very good friend who lived there and I started going around and building relationships.

Rod: Perfect, perfect.

Matt: And ….

Rod: Can I stop you for one second? Let me stop you for one second just because you said something that I wanna flag for my listeners and that is, you said because I had a that lives there. And guys, that’s huge, you know. I tell people when I’m doing my live events. If you can select one of the following four markets as your target market, you’re that much further ahead. The first one being, obviously, your backyard. Within, let’s say, a two-hour drive. Second one being, a place you grew up or you went to school that you know well. But third is a place where you have boots on the ground. Like you did. And so, I just want to flag that because that’s such a huge piece because that person is gonna know what’s going on there. They’ve got their ear to the ground. They know what businesses are going in and out. They know where the paths of progress are. They know where the areas are, you don’t wanna collect rent at night, and they can help you, you know, in your analysis and your due diligence and everything else. So, and then, the fourth place, just so I finish that conversation, is somewhere you’d enjoy visiting or might even want to retire is a great option as well. But anyway, please continue. I just wanna draw an exclamation mark on what you just said.

Matt: Yeah, sure. And you know, for me, at the time when I first started this, I was living in Miami but I live in Boston right now and in both of those cases, not really the best at least for the type of garden style of apartment investing that we tend to do.

Rod: Right.

Matt: So, we go out of town. So, I went into Kansas City. I started meeting with brokers but I think the most important relationships that I made early on was with property managers. I think that the relationship that I have with the property management that company that I work with right now is the most key relationship that I have there because they know all the vendors. I mean, I ended up getting introduced to my local attorney from my property manager, you know, I also use a syndication attorney that’s not based in Kansas. He’s a, probably, you know, he’s based in California but you need to have a, you know, a local attorney that knows the local laws because that’s what you’re signing.

Rod: Right, right. Let me put an exclamation mark on something else you just said, and that is, you know, you got referrals from your property management company. And guys, the best way to build your team is through referrals. There’s no more yellow pages. You wouldn’t want to use them even if there were. You don’t want to use Google. You’re gonna find the best people through referrals. So, I just wanna flag some of these nuggets that you’re thrown out there, Matt. So, you’ve and I couldn’t agree with you more on the property management thing, you know, we just came from reviewing assets in both Louisiana and Texas and it was night and day between the two assets based on the level, the competency of the management. So, we’ve got an issue in one of the markets. I’m not going to throw anybody under the bus publicly here, but we definitely have an issue in one of the markets we need to deal with and its management related. A good property management company will make you wealthy. So, alright, please continue.

Matt: Yeah. So, I mean, those are some of the relationships. I also have a relationship with a local tax consultant. I found that to be really important. Not the last deal I did but the deal I did before had I not had the conversation that I had with the property, with the tax consultant, we would not have been able to do the deal.

Rod: Wow.

Matt: But he had some information that the broker didn’t know that, frankly, I think a lot of people just didn’t know about….

Rod: Can you be more specific about what happened? Or is it okay?

Matt: Yeah. It had to do with the taxes, the way they were being calculated and where they were going up and some new legislation that had been passed in the state. And this was actually a property that we had in warrants and this was a little over a year ago. So, there was just some miscalculations I think in terms of the way where we thought taxes where were going to go, where the broker had thought taxes were going to go, in speaking with the consultants, he was very confident on where the taxes would be. We put together a five-year plan on where the taxes would be and so far, we’ve had one increase and it was spot on exactly ….

Rod: Okay.

Matt: Like he said it would be. So, he’s been key to have just because of meeting with him, I just didn’t go after a deal recently because of a major tax increase that the broker was unaware of that will be happening.

Rod: Interesting, interesting. Okay. Alright. Well, that’s great. Now, let me ask you this. Let me throw something else in, you know, …

Matt: Sure.

Rod: Like this solid management company we’re happy with. I mean, they just turned us onto another fantastic deal that no one else really knows about. So, you know, that’s another plus from when you agree from a property management company.

Matt: Oh, 100%.

Rod: Yeah.

Matt: 100%. I mean, I look at them as my, you know, partner.

Rod: Sure. Awesome, awesome.

Matt: When I’m looking at something especially if it’s a sub market that I’m not entirely familiar with, you know, conversation with them before I even run the numbers.

Rod: Sure. Love it.

Matt: So, yeah. Yeah. They’re key.

Rod: So, who else? Talked about some of the other team members.

Matt: Yeah.

Rod: Say property management is a great place to start.

Matt: We got the property management. We’ve got, we covered legal. We covered the tax consultants. You know, the brokers, right?

Rod: Sure.

Matt: Developing the relationship with the brokers is key. The quite, frankly, the last deal I got, I think, as far as I know, I was not the high bidder. It actually went to best and final and I lost and it was going through continuing to go through it, you know, machination with the new buyer and it ended up falling apart before the PSA was even signed. It was about 30 days prior since they had awarded the contract, and it was part of a three-property portfolio and the seller was looking to 1031 exchange everything so he had a very tight timeline. So, this deal falling apart made everybody very anxious ….

Rod: Right.

Matt: To get a new buyer in there. Went back to the best and final group, and I still I was not the highest bidder but I had, I was aggressive with the terms that I was offering, number one. But secondly, I had the confidence of the broker who I’d known for about two to three years. He had seen me close a number of other deals in the area and he said to the youngster. I wasn’t on the phone call but I’m sure he told the client, “hey listen, we know Matt. We know he can close deals. He’s being a very aggressive on the terms and I think he was, he …

Rod: Talked about what you mean by aggressive on the terms. Just for people that may not understand.

Matt: Yeah.

Rod: What you mean.

Matt: Well, in this particular case, I knew that time was the issue, right? There was a timing issue and a concern and most people were going in with a 30-day due diligence period. Because of the team that I’ve created there and the faith and trust that I think we all have in one another; I was able to offer 14 days of due diligence.

Rod: Nice. So, half, half the due diligence times. So, I assume you bringing the property management company in to help you with that process, that’s what you mean with team? And of course, boots on the ground, there was one?

Matt: Yeah. And, you know, making sure my attorney was on board with that and there was a number of other things regarding title and survey. I had to talk with the guy that we have that does our surveys to make sure he’s gonna be able to get that done in time because there’s things in the PSA alluding to that. There was, there’s just a number of different things that need to happen. You know, we wanna make sure we can get a plumber out there cuz, you know, I like to scope not ever ….

Rod: Scope the lines? Yeah.

Matt: You know, a sampling. Make sure you get a roofer out there just make sure we had all the trades in place to get out there and act quickly and we were able to do that, but also, on the loan side, right? So, my money was, you know, fortunately, I didn’t have to have a lot of money going hard on day one but it was gonna go hard right after due diligence so I wanna make sure there was no deal breakers from a financing side as well. So, it was about getting everyone from the lenders side …

Rod: Sure.

Matt: Out to do the PCA, all the, you know, the appraisal, everything that they need to do and enough time to get the results back to make sure we’re still looking okay to go ahead and get the loans.

Rod: Yeah, yeah. Guys, you wanna involve your lender and your property management company just as soon as you’re even, you know, thinking about a deal and so, no, that’s awesome. And, you know, I’m sure that your project management experience really comes to into play with all these little details that you encounter especially when you’re fast tracking a deal like that so, you know, …

Matt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, my career before real estate was, you’re right, project management in New York City. I worked at these advertising agencies and I would work on large-scale projects for clients like Verizon and Coca-Cola. We would have like 100 people on the deal. So, you know, my job as a project manager was to make sure things were getting done on time, on budget at the highest quality possible and I think those skills are really important for anybody who wants to syndicate deals to make sure that you’re good at keeping things on track.

Rod: Do you use one of the off-the-shelf project management software? We use Asana. I’m just curious if you used something like that.

Matt: Well, so, no. When I first started it in the business, there really wasn’t a lot of project management software and I’ve created …

Rod: Basecamp. Yeah.

Mat: Oh, yeah. Basecamp. But I use, I have a spreadsheet a …

Rod: Your spreadsheet. You’re an Excel guy, okay. I love it.

Matt: It’s worth and it’s got conditional formatting and all kinds of bells and whistles within it that I think make it a good tool, but yeah, there’s some great software out there. Basecamp’s fantastic.

Rod: Yeah, you know, we used to use Basecamp. We use Asana now and I’m just real pleased with it. It just really has been a real game-changer.

Matt: And some people like Slack. Have you ever looked into it as well?

Rod: Yeah. We use Slack as well for an interoffice communication but it’s really, it’s better for that. It’s not the best project management but Asana is fantastic. We plug all, we put all our documents in there. We put our pictures in there. You know, we can assign tasks and, you know, we love it. But anyway, so back to your, you know, your presentation regarding The Help of My Friends, just saw a great movie about that. But anyway, so, what, any other pieces that we haven’t covered? I feel like we might be in the finish line here, but …

Matt: Yeah. I mean, we touched on it very briefly just now, I didn’t mention earlier but the loan, right?

Rod: The loan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Good.

Matt: I got a broker here in Boston who’s fantastic.

Rod: Right.

Matt: We bring him in right away and he’s really, really …

Rod: How did you find him? Just curious.

Matt: He cold called me.

Rod: He cold called you. Okay, okay. Awesome.

Matt: He cold called me …

Rod: Good for me.

Matt: And I ignored him for about, you know, a couple of months there and then, finally, I was like, “oh my god. This guy is so annoying. Fine. I’ll meet with you.” And he’s a great guy and best thing I ever did was to meet him. He’s fantastic.

Rod: Loved it. Loved it. And you just said something else that’s really important as well. Is guys, you gotta meet these people. You can’t just have a phone, you know, phone relationship with them. Everything changes, you tell me if you agree with me or not, Matt, that everything changes when you actually break bread with them, you meet with them, they see that you’re real, they see that your passion, they see your enthusiasm. I really believe that you can start the relationships over the phone if you’re buying in a market that’s not your backyard but you have to go meet them. Do you agree I agree?

Matt: I agree a hundred percent. And I found that, you know, when it came to Kansas, I was getting very little just from a few phone calls in terms of deal flow but then, when I got out there and was meeting people face to face, like you’re saying, shaking hands, breaking bread ….

Rod: Right.

Matt: That’s when you could really start to develop that relationship.

Rod: Right.

Matt: Yeah.

Rod: So tell me how you, do you know if there’s any strategy that you utilize to really, you know, set yourself apart as it relates to the people that are the belle of the ball like brokers right now, is there any anything unique that you do? Or, you know, I mean, obviously, it’s building friendships but is it, is anything else you do? I’m just curious.

Matt: You know, I think I know one thing that’s kind of unique about me that is kind of like the record scratch when I walk, when I’m talking about real estate in an environment and I say this and like the music stops and everyone turns and looks at me is because of my involvement which you mentioned earlier in theater and that kind of actually is interesting because it does make me sort of stand out and people like, “what? What do you do? What is that?” And so, that’s something that that’s a differentiator and I think it’s important to have a differentiator. You know, I just invested passively in a deal …

Rod: Right.

Matt: And the guy sent me like a gift. Like a closing gift. Like when we closed on the property. And I was like, “Wow. That’s unique.” Like no, you know, I’m in 2000 …

Rod: The broker did? Or, who did?

Matt: No, no, no. The syndicator.

Rod: The syndicator in your, in the production of the theater production?

Matt: No, no, no. A real estate syndication.

Rod: Okay.

Matt: So, I invested in a real estate syndication recently and I was surprised and delighted to get a package delivered to my house a couple days after closing and it was like, “hey, congratulations we closed.” And I was like, “oh, that’s unique.”

Rod: That’s a nice touch. That’s a nice touch. Yeah.

Matt: It’s a nice touch.And it’s a uniqueness and that’s what I’m saying like, I think there’s so many people out there doing things that if you have one thing that makes you sort of stand out and makes you unique, that’s great. My uniqueness is not that I have a million door so I can go into a broker and talk about, you know, I’ve done it. I’ve done a good amount of stuff both passively and actively now, but still not, there’s people who are way more successful than me so far but my uniqueness I think is my passion and love for the Arts, right? So, if you can start to relate to people on that level, you can stand out from a crowd a little bit.

Rod: Nice, nice, nice. No, that’s a great tip. So, guys, be authentic. Be yourselves. You know, that’s really the secret and, you know, if there’s anything you can do to make yourself a little different, it really will pay off. I mean, I’ve heard lots of examples of different things people have done and, you know, one guy’s got a partner that has sports memorabilia so he’ll send a signed football or something to…

Matt: Oh, wow.

Rod: You know, broker or something, you know, of whatever their team of choices so, you know, cool stuff like that, but the gifts is a nice touch too. You know, you go break bread with them and then, you send them something nice afterwards. Gotta be the best money you ever spent because you’re setting yourself apart, you know. Love it. Love it. So, talk about some of the hurdles that you’ve faced, Matt. You know, talk about maybe a time you got your nose bloodied and either the lesson or what you, how you handle it. I know you weren’t ready for this question so sorry about that, but just to

Matt: No. That’s good. It’s good, you know. In terms of getting my nose bloodied, I mean, I think, I got beat up quite a bit when I first started trying to get into the syndication game. I mean, there sure from a passive investment standpoint, that wasn’t too hard. I mean, …

Rod: Right.

Matt: Investing in some deals I probably shouldn’t have and learn the hard way and learned how to look at deals better, but when it comes to syndication and wanting to get involved as, on a sponsor level, and trying to look at deals and find deals and just even trying to initially get my foot in the door, get the deal flow and then, be able to compete, it’s been tough, you know. I mean, I was, I did one of these, you know, mentor programs and I worked my butt off and, you know, it took me almost two years to get my first deal.

Rod: Sure.

Matt: It’s a lot easier after that but that’s first day, and it wasn’t that I wasn’t committed or working very hard on it because I was, but sometimes it takes a while to get there and to sort of, in this competitive environment, make yourself standout.

Rod: Sure, sure. We’re in the hottest market we’ve been in a decade, you know. And I’m really glad you said that. That’s another nugget that I want people to get and that is, that the law of the first deal. That first one’s always the hardest, takes the longest, it’s the most stressful but once it’s done, it’s like, “My god. That’s all there was. BAM.” And then, they’re like, you know, they’re like dominoes. I see with my students all the time. I mean, you get the first one and then, I blink in there at a thousand doors or more and it’s like, “wow”.And so, no, it absolutely couldn’t agree more and so those of you that are that are trying to make this happen and I shouldn’t have even used that word, those are you that are committed to making this happen, you know. Recognize the fact that, you know, God’s delays are not God’s denials”, or whatever you believe that it will happen, you know. That, you know, you just got to stick with it. Keep studying it. Keep evaluating deals. Keep building relationships and it will pop. So, don’t get frustrated. I’m really glad you said that, Matt. So, let me ask you this, buddy. What did you have to give up or sacrifice to get to the success that you’re at so far in your career?

Mat: Oh, that’s a good question. Let me think for a second here. What did I have to give up or sacrifice? You know, I think for me, oh well, a certain amount of so time, …

Rod: Sure.

Matt: And the what am I looking for sort of, assurance or stability. I would say stability. So, for me, you know, the way that I got to where I am now was, you know, working, I think, my butt off. You know, when I lived in New York City and being able to put together some finances by swirling it away and saving up money. So then, I had capitals, start deploying, and luckily deployed into some good things and I’ve had some losses too, right? But…

Rod: Right.

Matt: That sort of helped me get to a point and then, about four and a half years ago when my wife got a really cool job opportunity and we moved from New York to Miami, that’s when sort of I let go of the stability and kind of just jumped out of the parachutes and, “you know what? I’m gonna do this real estate thing full-time. I had been doing it part-time for ten years.” But it was scary. I mean, luckily, the investments that I had done both, we invested in some property shows and also some real estate that we’re all doing pretty well enough where, “okay, we did that.” My wife had a job and let’s see how this goes but it was scary.

Rod: It’s a little scary, you know. And that fear can, you know, that fear can paralyze you. That’s why I tell people don’t do what you did. You know, make sure you’ve got your income replaced before you’re doing.

Matt: Well, well …

Rod: But …

Matt: We were at a point where it was okay.

Rod: To close. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. We were at the point but it was like, “ah, well let’s see how this goes.” And it wasn’t like, “okay, well, we’re not gonna be able to, you know, …”

Rod: Right. So, you had food on the table. It wasn’t like you’re have a problem there. Well, yeah.

Matt: I got one child. I had a one-year-old child at the time.

Rod: Oh, wow.

Matt: So, we can’t put ourselves in a place where we weren’t gonna be able to pay rent.

Rod: Right.

Matt: You know, had I not been able to do the real estate stuff we’d be eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every meal, you know. So …

Rod: Been there. Yeah. Okay. Alright.

Matt: We were able to do it and I was able to start doing all right.

Rod: Were there any defining moments or epiphanies in this journey of yours that come to mind?

Matt: Every day’s an epiphany. I learned so much everyday talking with different people, you know, really experienced people like yourselves or people who’ve just never been it, never got anything before who want to chat. I love talking about real estate and I’m always learning things and trying to think if there’s one particular thing and I don’t know that there is.

Rod: Okay.

Matt: It really has been, the past four and a half years has been a tremendous learning experience for me.

Rod: What do you think has been the most courageous thing you’ve done? I mean, when did you really have to suck it up and say, “okay I’m pulling the trigger on this” or something?

Matt: First time I ever signed a loan form, …

Rod: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: For 2 million dollars

Rod: Yeah, yeah. That’s something in it. Yeah.

Matt: It’s non-recourse.

Rod: Right. Still.

Matt: Yeah. But there’s ….

Rod: See all those zeros. You’re like, “oh, good god.” Yeah.

Matt: Well, the other thing that a lot of people don’t tell you is unless you’ve got a really good attorney, which I have right now, those final, those loan documents that you get a lot of times, you’re just getting signature pages. And you’re signing signature pages and FedExing signature pages over. And you’ve not seen the actual documents. Now …

Rod: Right.

Matt: Hopefully seeing the Fannie Mae template but you have to get your signatures to at least every deal I’ve been involved, to get the signatures to the attorney and then, act close like the day before closing and then, at closing they send you the actual documents. Now, if there an issue, you could tell, call your attorney and say, “don’t attach my signature, we’re out of here,” but it’s all boilerplate stuff anyhow and you’ve hopefully reviewed the boilerplate. But the first deal that I was involved, and I was a KP on that deal, I did not get to see the boilerplate ahead of time and really freaking out when I did it but I knew that I could call up and can’t. I mean, I’d be hosing the whole deal but I knew that I could do that once I got the documents. Luckily, I had an attorney friend that sent me the documents I could review them.

Rod: Okay.

Matt: I was comfortable with it. But …

Rod: Yeah.

Matt: It’s scary. It’s really scary.

Rod: Yeah, yeah. You know, with non-recourse you usually okay but, you know, god forbid you’d never do that with bridge debt. You’d have somebody scour the documents if you did some bridge debt, but have you done any bridge debt or has it been all non-recourse?

Matt: I haven’t done bridge but, actually, here’s another thing in this, this might be an epiphany or something that might be good for your listeners. If they’re not doing like a large Fanny debt maybe they’re doing bridge debt, I recently bought a smaller property, a six-unit actually, because of a 1031 that I had, it’s kind of a long story, but I went, you know, at that size you’re not getting agency debt and I realize a small local lender and I looked at their document. their loan documents and there was a number of things that I thought were unbelievably onerous like ….

Rod: Right.

Matt: Unbelievably. And they were the boilerplate and I spoke with the president of the bank and I said, “hey, I can’t sign these.” And he was like, he said, “let me review these because I haven’t read them in a long time. I mean, I read them the first time.”

Rod: Sure.

Matt; And no one has pushed back.

Rod: Right,

Matt: So, we found out. These boilerplates hadn’t been changed for ten years. Not a single person has pushed back but the president of the bank said, “you know, candidly man, I agree with you. I wouldn’t sign these either.” And he went back to the attorney for the bank and got them changed.

Rod: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt: And you can get things change ….

Rod: But with a local bank, for sure.

Matt: Yeah.

Rod: With the local bank, for sure. You, that’s great. That’s a great nugget because, guys, you know, you can negotiate with local banks so there’s a lot more leeway than you’re gonna be able to do with like a Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac. And really that’s a great nugget because you’re right. Most people sign whatever gets put in front of them, but, you know, you’ve been in the, you were in their larger commercial environment so you used to really studying the documents and you’re obviously analytical anyway. But, no, that’s a great tip. So, guys, don’t sign whatever gets store in front of you. Get legal help. That’s the bottom line. Even if, you know, because you may not even recognize something that’s onerous so get some good competent legal help. We finally found a really good attorney we’re thrilled with and I’m not putting his name out there cuz I don’t want him get too busy. But, anyway…

Matt: I’m just curious. Or is he …

Rod: He’s transactional, yes. He’s completely transactional. It’s not the SEC person. This is a person that’s, you know, like we’re involved. We’ve had two, we’ve got two big insurance claims recently but one, 101-unit asset that was completely destroyed by a tornado. My partner’s up there right now looking at the first finished unit today. Right this moment. And then, another one that got in a massive windstorm in Dallas. Not even a tornado, you shouldn’t believe the damage that, but there was just a tornado there as well. But, anyway, we’re in some in, you know, some possible. I don’t it’s gonna go to litigation because, you know, we’ve got, you know, very, very solid grounds to stand on but, you know, that kind of a person, and he’s the guy that reviews our loan documents and, ………. Yes.

Matt: Oh, wow. That’s cool. That’s awesome.

Rod: Yeah, yeah. So, very, very, very grateful to have him and, obviously, if a case gets started, you have to get local counsel but he can certainly advise on the transaction as long as, you know, it doesn’t it doesn’t go to litigation then you’d have to get local counsel that he would consult with in that regard.

Matt: Got it.

Rod: Alright. So, well listen, you have, this has been a lot of fun. You’ve added a lot of value. Let me ask the question that I like to ask and you might have heard it, it been asked it before and but sometimes I get unique answers. You know, if you could go back and tell your 20-year-old self-something with what you know now, is there anything you’d do differently?

Matt: Well, yeah. And I think, the classic thing that everyone says …

Rod: Go bigger, go bigger faster. Yeah.

Matt: Or earlier, you know, the thing that kind of, oh, you know, you talked about epiphanies, I mean, well, I ended up kind of sort of doing a house hack but not really but not realizing it….

Rod: Right.

Matt: Until then, I learned about house hacking. But yeah, man. If I could have gone back to my 20-year-old self, I was, “yeah. Buy something. Buy a duplex. Buy a 4-plex. And house hack it. I mean, I know guys who come to my Meetup who are doing that here in Boston area and they’re on their second, their third. They’re doing really well for themselves.

Rod: Right, right. Living free and then, living free then when they rent out, move out. They’re making cash flow and, yeah, love it. Love it.

Matt: Yeah.

Rod: Well, listen man, I really appreciate your being on the show brother. it’s been a real treat. Great to see your face again, and guys, his website is and thanks for coming on, my friend.

Matt: Rod, thanks for having me. It’s been a real pleasure.

Rod: Likewise. Take care.

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