Ep #308  – Mike Jordan – Managing Apartment Renovations and Tenants

Here is some of what you will learn:

Finding off market deals
Importance of developing smaller bank relationships
The “hunger” filter
The ins and outs of multifamily renovations
The importance of referral business
How to find excellent contractors
Defining and executing the scope of work
The importance of having a draw schedule
Tenant management tips

To learn more about our guests click here

Join us at a Multifamily Bootcamp, visit: MultifamilyBootcamp.com

Full Transcript Below:

Mike Jordan – Managing Apartment Renovations and Tenants (Ep308)

Intro: Hi! I’m Rod Khleif. Each and every week I record an interview with a thought leader that I know you’re gonna get a ton of value from. Now here on YouTube are the video versions of my podcast, Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. Now to make sure you get the latest information please subscribe and hit the notification bell. Let’s get started.

Rod: Welcome to another edition of “How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing”. I’m Rod Khleif and I’m thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re gonna get tremendous value from the gentleman we’re interviewing today. His name’s Mike Jordan which is not the Mike Jordan you’re thinking but a very very cool guy. He’s a serial entrepreneur like I am I mean I’ve got his bio in my hand and he started at least I’m looking at a dozen different companies here, got the shiny penny syndrome like I do but he’s also a force to be reckoned with in the multifamily space, got a hundred and sixty doors, has his own property management company in the southeastern Michigan area and just real excited to dig into some things with him. Michael, welcome to show my friend!

Mike: Hey Rod thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it and you know its an honor to be on your show as its you know it’s a podcast that I listen to on a regular basis and I highly respectyou and you’re a great educator

Rod: oh thanks brother that’s very kind of you to say that so you know let’s let’s you know let’s go let’s go back and just talk about your real estate progression. I mean I see a lot of other things on your bio that we could probably talk about in a whole another session but let’s talk about how the real estate transitioned because I think you’ve I’m sure you’ve got an interesting story in in in your transition from single family to multifamily

Mike: yeah well you know I started out as single-family back years ago because to me growing up you know you hear about rental homes and that’s the way to build wealth and I actually started out by owning a construction company, giving some money together and then went into building homes. And then while I was building homes, the market started to decline and I was left with two new construction homes that didn’t have dedham and then three homes that were on double Lots. So I became an accidental landlord and you know becoming a man I love this thing you got passive income coming in every month you know as long as you put the right tenants in there and you take care of them and make sure that the homes are ready for them and the maintenance is taken care of and throughout the years I’ve you know dreamt of owning apartment buildings and you know I always looked that way and I’ve always wanted to be in that space. So I made relationships with you know Hendrix and partners at the time I know they turned into Bokadia and Marcus and Millichap you know some of the people there but then I started coming across some deals you know through the off market and I took a look at them and some of them met my needs for numbers and location and you know you know the occupancy that I thought I would have and the transition was quite easy because you know it was just a lot of single-family homes in one building. So this I looked at and I looked at it like there was also less headache because you don’t have a hundred hot water tanks spread out you have you know you got a utility room there with all your utilities and everything that you know is protected and camera systems throughout the building and really I fell in love with multifamily and that’s something that I see growing into because I believe that that’s a path of wealth and generational wealth for myself and my family

Rod: Yeah no question love it so you you let me circle back to something you said you you started building relationships with the Marcus and Millichap guys and and the the other brokers large brokers and and but then you went off market what did you do to find these deals off market?

Mike: Well its actually some of these deals that were off market were you know by mean networking with a lot of attorneys and also some city inspectors that we knew and one day an attorney came to me said he might listen I got this off-market deal. I’ve been going to city hearings and you know the city is just not happy with the way the property is upkept and you know the owners are having some issues and they want to sell and immediately. I said where’s the location they told me the location and I went took a look at it I’m like wow this is just a no-brainer so that was my first deal

Rod: Nice how many doors?

Mike: That one was 90 units

Rod: Okay and is your portfolio in Detroit is that where it is?

Mike: It’s in Dearborn Michigan so sorry Detroit. I mean the reason why you know I you know in single-family we always say location, location, location, well I felt that way about apartments too. So you know I got these bill that’s 90 in a building that’s right behind where Ford Motors developing office space, so wow this all clicked and and you know it’s something I said this is you know the deal that I’m jumping into and that was my first apartment deal and I made tons of sense and I think sometimes when you’re dealing with an owner and you sit down with them and you know they know that cap rates and where they should be at and everything and when you sit down and negotiate properly you have your facts right and they respect the fact that you know your numbers. You’ll get to your number if they want to know

Rod: Nice nice so did you end up raising money for that first deal? You just syndicated or did you use your own cash? how’d you buy it?

Mike: So on that first deal I actually used my own cash. I went to a small bank, I shopped around asked a lot of people that were in the spaces I paid was the best bank to use for apartment complexes andthey gave me the name of a bank that’s aggressive because there are a small bank and they want to build our portfolio versus Chase or Bank America but

Rod: Sure let me let me let me put an exclamation mark on what you just said. Guys, whatever market you’re targeting, make sure you develop relationships with the local the smaller banks not the BOA, Chase, Wells Fargo, Fifth, Third, BB&T, none of those you want you want to hit the local banks because relationships are so powerful. In fact one of my first interviews was the guy in Michigan that was young guy that had bought a million-dollar property with bank financing for $5,000 down because he had a relationship with a banker and the banker allowed the seller to carry a second, that’s the power of those relationships and you’re obviously a relationship guy because you reference you know developing relationships were the brokers and but banks don’t overlook bankers. I’ve got a coaching student Andrew that did at one point or do is doing 1.3 million dollar deal nothing down. So because with bank financing because of the relationship and it happens to be a good deal and the bank financed it. So I just wanted to hammer that home. So lets, yeah please

Mike: An important point that I could add to that you know what I do with some of the banks that I make relationships with and even if I have a great relationship with a particular bank and we’re doing deals, it doesn’t mean that I don’t go out there and make more relationships because I believe that you know relationships are the key to success and the more relationships you have, the more opportunities you have. And I believe that you know when you show someone that your Integris and your professional and you know what you’re doing, those relationships are like their goal they really are. So what I do is I generally invite the bankers to come to our office and I’ll tell you here’s a little thing that I found throughout the years, the bankers that aren’t interested in coming in your office that to the office aren’t really that hungry. They’re not going to go to bat for you, they’re not going to go you know try to get you that that deal that you want. The ones that are hungry will make an appointment with you and come to your office just just two days ago, just last week I had a banker come in my office and he’s followed up with me two times on email and by text

Rod: Love it,what a great way to filter them buddy. I love it that’s great

Mike: That’s a good piece of advice, if you want to get them to your office, they want to meet you for coffee, they’re hungry for business, and there are their higher-ups or telling them go out there and get the business

Rod: And another thing I want to circle back to is guys you’re looking for quality not quantity. You know break bread with them, have lunch with them, find out how many kids they have. I mean make it personal. That’s how you develop these relationships and make them very very powerful relationships and you know I love that filtering mechanism bring them to bringing into your office love that and you know and then once you start the relationship it does not hurt to open an account there okay. They are a relationship driven they want to see they’d like to see I have a bank account there so throw some money there and let it sit there and you know and start that process but okay awesome. So you know I know you did the transition from single family to multi family and why same reason I did and but let’s I know you’ve got one of your skill sets is renovations and you know you’ve done it like me you’ve done I’m sure thousands I’ve done thousands and and you had a renovation company that was one of your company. So let’s talk about some tips that you might give my listeners if they’re doing a reposition or even in a house you know if they’re gonna go out there and they’re not gonna do the work themselves. What would you tell them to protect them because you you hear lots of horror stories around this contractor believes with the money or doesn’t finish the job or takes forever or whatever, what some tips would you give my listeners in this in this area?

Mike: Well the first thing is renovation is something that I hear about all around the country that is the most difficult part of the business for most investors rightfully so because you’re dealing with a lot of different variables. So one of the tips that I would give any investor whether it be in single-family or multi family because we are heavily in single-family. So I always will be a single-family but I also made the transition at the multi-family which I want to build that portfolio to because I love both spaces but I think the multi-family space is it’s just one where it’s incredible. Going back to the renovations what I would do is I would have multiple renovation contractors that you’ve got prior to you buying and the reason why you want to do that is you want to know who are you going to give you a quote prior to you buying the project? and you don’t just get it from one guy you get it from three different people. You also want to have your professional trades which are your HVAC, your plumbing, your electrical contractors,and you know in line two because those guys if you’re going to GC a project that’s where you’re gonna save your money by doing it yourself and to me the best general contractor is yourself because construction is based on logic. So you got to build those crews up and a lot of people tell me how do you build those crews up? They’re so hard to find, there’s no good contractors. It’s not true. You go to your local meetup groups you meet people there you ask them who do they use, you find an electrician you’d ask them does he know a plumber, you find a plumber you ask them does he know what HVAC guy. So that’s where I started out the conversation talking about relationships well renovations is based on relationships too but you know a very important tip is have those contractors and those professional trades ready and have them ready to write a scope of work for you so you understand your budget and your cost

Rod: Right let me let me stop you for one second stop you for one second because I just want to hammer home something you just said they don’t want to talk about scope work for sure but guys in this business everything is referrals. You don’t go in a phone book anymore you don’t go on Google to find the best plumber, electrician, banker, anybody frankly you should be asking your brokers, who’s the best small banker you’ve done work with it’s aggressive that’s hungry, ask the banker who the best brokers, but in this in this renovation space you know like he just said make sure you’re asking for referrals. You go to your Meetup find out who they like that does plumbing or electrical or HVAC or whatever or even write you know drywall and framing and remodel work and and get referrals that’s how you’re gonna find the best people and you should always be asking who they know that does a good job um so I just want to hammer that home okay so get a scope of work let’s start there again

Mike: Yeah when you get a scope of work and you meet these guys but go look at their project. Go look at a job that they’re doing to see their quality. When they know you’re on top of it, they’re gonna respect you that much more and they’re going to deliver the right project, the right way. So there’s another step that you want to go look at their work. You want to check their background just because Bob the plumber introduced me to Jason the electrician it doesn’t mean that I don’t go and take the step of looking at their work and making sure that you know they do quality work and you know the city thinks highly of them too. So that’s another step that I believe that should be taken you know during the you know during the

Rod: Do you ever ask inspectors at the city you know think of somebody yeah I do too okay

Mike: Absolutely so you there’s you know it’s public record on who’s doing work. So you could actually go to a city in a request a list of contractors that are doing work for their city and you know during my due diligence process, when I’m doing a project if it’s someone I don’t know, I want to see you know their work, I want to see that they’ve done to work with many cities, and I wanted actually sometimes what I do I maybe this is going a little far but I do a background check because

Rod: No it’s not going not far at all it’s not hard to do and it’s smart I mean you’re investing a ton of money and time with somebody. Man you better you know they can make or break you especially if it’s a big one

Mike: Absolutely, you know people do, you know they’ll go to Home Depot to the protest it’s a rather good idea are called the electrical supply store but I urge everyone that you know you know like Rod saying, business is built on relationships and if you get into a project with the wrong guy, you’re gonna have so many headaches and then your taste might come you might have a bad taste in overall investing you might say, oh it’s too hard and you know as contractors. We don’t want you to get there we want you to do your proper due diligence so you don’t get into a problem

Rod: Right and you know if your first deal is a train wreck with your you know with a you know big remodel, there probably won’t be a second deal because it’s so painful to deal to go through it ask me how I know you know you just don’t want to have that happen and yeah you mentioned the pro desk that’s not that’s another good tip Lowe’s and Home Depot goes you know who’s the best electrician you know who’s the best plumber you know? who’s the best framer you know? and they’ll tell you you know you start a relationship with them and just shoot the bull and ask them and and you know you can go to your you know like you said electrical supply, house plumbing, supply house, HVAC supply house, and start a relationship there and then ask them who you know who really runs a tight ship? who really does good job? and they’ll tell you

Mike: These not only save you time but thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of millions because imagine if you get deterred away from the general business of doing a renovation that costs you over tens of years or a lifetime millions of dollars in possible passive income. So I urge you to do your due diligence on anyone you work with into construction realm

Rod: Love it love it so then you do your scope of work and how do you hold them accountable and progress through the process for us

Mike: Yeah so what we do is then what we do, we write a scope of work. If we had an architect on a project where is large enough where, we’re moving enough walls where there’s 50% you know walls being moved and whatnot we get our city’s architect involved. If there’s an architect whether what’s happened there is the architect generally what I do is I have them help us with our scope of work to have the best layout possible to make an open-concept whatever it may be. If I don’t have an architect what I’m doing is I’m going in there myself with my trades and walking the building and asking suggestions from them because I may you know I want someone to check me. So I know that it’s always important to have many eyes on things and prior to them giving you a quote you know there’s they’re going to point things out because it’s just going to go on this scope of work and there to do the work. And I’m going to determine whether I should change that flooring or not. I’m going to determine whether you know that you know that bathroom needs to be gutted or not. So I always go do a walk-through with the team that I have established of contractors and professional trades and I write their scope of work off room by room, from the exterior into the interior, and that’s what I do

Rod: High level of detail guys. You look at the floors, you look at the walls, you look at the ceilings, you look under the cabinets, you look at every little piece of this thing so you don’t miss anything because the other thing that’ll kill you is a change order or adding things on. That’s you know you can get really screwed when that happens. So okay awesome awesome and then let me ask you this how do you hold them accountable? is there anything you do to hold your contractors accountable where they don’t run off with your money? I mean obviously you’ve done your homework so you’re usually okay but you know many of them want money to get started. How do you hold them to the timetable? or are there any things that you do that you suggest?

Mike: Yeah so number one we have we have a rent contract with every single person, every contractor, and every professional trade we work with. And you know what we do is we set up a draw schedule and we don’t like to pay anyone prior to them doing work. We want to see them doing work and then giving them draws as a progress. If they are resistant to that, that may be someone that I don’t want to deal with. So that’s a conversation that I have a front prior to me even going to the project with them. So having a contract with them give them, give them draws during the progress of the work. Another accountable item that we use is if they’re licensed. So if they’re licensed that you know that’s a very important item you know that they are a licensed contractor they have to uphold their license and do things properly and if I vetted them right and add the right contract you know and I’m ahead of them on money, things are going well. But you know if I show them mutual respect and there’s going to be many projects after this and if I even let them know hey listen here’s another little tip that I’ll tell you hey you know you’re going to be on you know in some videos that you could go there promote your your company name. So I also I tell them you do a great job. I’m gonna post your name and some of the Facebook groups so you know those are little things that actually like it manage them a little bit more you know so you know it’s very important. I want to do everything possible to make sure that they’re on time and they’re doing things properly

Rod: Yeah you know I love it and and you know back to the draw schedule for a minute. You know you just be really careful getting ahead of these guys, guys because you know that’s when things happen when work stops and they they spend the money and then they’re in trouble and and and you know that’s so so like he said, ideally you’re paying for the work is done but you get mascara they don’t have to wait for the whole job to be done you can draw it out based on, but you try to position it in your favor so that there’s plenty of money left at the end for them to finish and I’ve had situations where once great contractors they degenerate and they have issues and they become a problem.

Mike: Maybe a lot of these contractors are smaller contractors because if we’re going to a contractor with an office and you know this big building and whatnot you know there’s all your profits are gone from that. So they these small contractors but what we do is when we use these small contractors we cut up the draw. So we don’t say that we’re going to pay you 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 what we do is we actually cut them up into about 10 to 15% draws because it also gives us more interaction with the contractors by being out site, walk it through with them, being on the same page, and establishing that relationship. So that’s another tip that

Rod: I like it yeah I like it. I mean it’s more work but it’s much safer and you and you’re interacting and you’re involved and then they’ve got more regular revenue. So they’re happy about it no that’s a great tip. Now do you ever have penalties if they don’t finish on time? like I sometimes I’ll do a daily penalty

Mike: Yeah what I do is I ask them how all the products would take. We come up with a time frame that they give us how long it’s gonna take even though we know roughly how long to take you know I usually tell them, okay listen I’m gonna add you know two or three weeks or the project or even a month right but I also tell them I say you know depending on how much the project value is and what you know what we’re doing with the project, I tell them hey we need this budget you know I’m gonna give you a three percent bonus on the overall contract isn’t well worth it some people might look at it like why are you throwing money away? no you’re not you’re actually motivating someone to the project, you’re building a relationship, and you’re getting off getting your project completed done as fast as possible

Rod: Love it love it so it’s not just the stick it’s the carrot. Love it no that’s great advice. Let’s shift gears for a minute and talk about property management because I know that’s another skills of yours and and you want a property management company like I do and in the Detroit area or the southeastern Michigan area and so you know what are some tips, some properties, some high-level property management tips you might give one of my listeners that maybe just bought a four-plex for example or an 8 Plex and they’re gonna do it themselves because they’re just getting rolling what are some what are some tips that you’d give them?

Mike: Well I would say that first of all what I do with our properties that you know there’s two kinds of properties you can buy you can buy a tentative property or you can buy a property that’s on tentative. So if you want me to go about it both ways I could talk about it both ways

Rod: Sure sure I mean you know we could let’s talk about an occupied property first what are some of the steps

Mike: So with an with an occupied property prior to me buying that property, I want to see the retro, I want to make sure that they’re paying on time, I want to see the leases, I want to see the application, so I want to see who’s in my property. Based on who’s in my property their payment history what they’re paying is based on that’ll adjust my offer yeah because I might have more risk with them not having a great application. So what I want to do is I want to figure in that they may be evicted okay. So I also wanna you know take a look at the property and say how much deferred maintenance is in there? So if I took over their property that four-plex tomorrow and the whole four-plex became vacant I want to know how much it would cost me to go in there and renovate it. So I’m doing my numbers according to me buying the property tomorrow and everyone’s stopping pain. So if they don’t do that that’s a plus so I’m going in with the worst case scenario number based on the applications, the rent roll, and also their payment history

Rod: Love it love it love it

Mike: So now on the flip side if I’m going to renovating and put in tenants in the property, what I’m doing is I’m looking for a tenant with no evictions and that can get tricky. Then let me tell you why I can get tricky most of us use CoreLogic and we look at CoreLogic and you a clean record and thumbs up on it and whatnot. Well CoreLogic is delayed data is delayed that goes into the city. So if you really want to know about a tenant you want you want to call their landlords you want to talk to their references you want to you want to even if you if you have a virtual assistant which we have several virtual assistants what we do is we do a deep dive. What we do is we find out we get the previous landlords name and number we call them and we get the address so they live that then we verify a public records that that owner real property you know so then you’re gonna see if they’re lying to you, they’re not going to be a good tenant not every tenant is you know

Rod: We used to see that all the time and you know in fact in fact we discounted single you know if we were calling if we weren’t calling a property management company if it was just a single owner, we would discount the validity and go at it with skepticism and we would do the same thing you just look up the property to see who owns it, see if they actually own the thing you know

Mike: Absolutely absolutely so that’s the first thing I want to look at their eviction history. I want to look at their previous landlord references. I want to look at their history how much do they mate and I want to see actual pay stubs. So the pay stubs that I can call verify their employment with that company because nowadays people with the computers and technology they could they could rigmarole some you know false statements and then we don’t want to do that I want to see a bank statement with some money in there that they’ll have to put for the for the down payment and the security deposit or for the first payment security deposit and I want to make sure they have a month-and-a-half security deposit which Michigan law says as a max you could take and it first walked out so now

Rod: Wow that’s that’s heavy duty but a month and a half security and the first month oh no you’re not doing the last month oh okay

Mike: Usually it’s illegal to do that so we’re doing one half month security deposit on one month right now

Rod: Okay now guys we’re talking about C- properties and lower here if you you know if you pull a credit report it’s an 800 and they’ve got a you know a job that you’ve verified you don’t have to go to this level of detail but you know like you I’ve had tons of sea and even deep properties and you’ve got to go to this level of detail when you do that and really dig deep because it you’re better off to sit empty than you are to get the wrong person in

Mike: You took the words out of my mouth I mean our forte is C and B properties that’s where we make our money we make your money and C and B properties. We don’t do D we don’t do a because the cap rate sound therefore A, the D we don’t want to deal in war zone but like Rod said I mean there’s a level of detail that people do and don’t want to go to but you know I mean if you just look on if you look at the previous landlord references and you know credit is credit a factor? I look at it like reasonable credit I don’t need someone with 800 credit I mean they wouldn’t be renting or there’s you know there’s not going to be many tenants with 800 credit. So I just don’t want them to have utilities that are behind or payments going

Rod: or judgments for last past landlords those are the big ones. Medical bills, no big deal

Mike: Exactly exactly

Rod: It’s the other things yeah I totally agree totally agree now oh I just had a thought and it escaped me. So you know and then when you do your lease up process with one of these new residents once they pass muster, describe what you do, are there any nuances that you do that you like to do to maximize a good experience for both parties

Mike: Yeah there’s actually something that I came up with a while ago and it’s you know it’s a one-page document and it’s we call the notice of consequences, notice of consequences of a potential eviction that’s what it’s called. And our attorney wrote it up and it talks about how it’s all facts about how if you get evicted you know affects you credit, affects your ability to rent, and what we do is we have them sign that initially and what we do is you know that’s just an additional item that is a reminder that, hey outside of the lease that we sign, here’s the consequences of what can happen if you don’t perform, and that really works because you know you know we have a really high success rate with collections or between 95 and 97 percent a month and then you know they’re three to five percent we eventually get you know some of that and we’ll have our you know our two percent efficient rate that that just happens overall. So you know we felt that when you’re asking me that question, that’s a little document it didn’t take us much time to come up with and it really gives them some light on how they can hurt them

Rod: Yeah many of them don’t know they’re totally screwing themselves if they have an eviction on their record. And you know another thing that that we do is especially in the C properties is we will actually highlight a few things in the lease and we’ll talk about hey here’s what you can expect from us you’re gonna get a clean place a safe place if you have a legitimate maintenance request operative word is legitimate maintenance request, we are gonna fix it right away okay. Now here’s what we expect from you you’re not gonna have a trashy place you’re not gonna disturb the neighbors and you’re gonna pay the rent on time and regretfully if you don’t pay by the fifth you’ll get an eviction notice by the fifteenth you get the formal eviction notice and you know you’ll be out that month and just having that conversation verbally is very very powerful. Do you agree?

Mike: Oh no doubt about it. I mean I’ll tell you that conversation along with even a monthly newsletter that you drop you know with the email blasts saying hey you we want you know to our tenants that you know we would like to help you improve your credit if you’re interested here’s a credit counselor that can help you improve your credit. Little things like that go a long way because you’re reminding them that it’s important to pay your bills, pay them on time, even sometimes there’s home of classes with some nonprofits run you know send it out there a newsletter and saying you know homeownership of course you know those are little things that go along, wait I mean they look at it and some people appreciate it and they say you know what you know they’re paying their rent anyway but they appreciate it and you know it just it to me is good karma. You’re trying to do right by someone giving them you know educating them and it just comes back around

Rod: Yeah no question no question anything you can do to generate goodwill with your residence is critical once they’re in you know we were talking about up to the point of getting them in but once they’re in, you know you want to do everything within your power to minimize turnover because the highest expense in this business is turnover

Mike: Oh yeah you know sometimes we’ll have someone come in and they’ll pay a $25 application for you here’s a quick little funny story, and they’ll come in and I’ll pay a $25 application fee and they’ll get denied because we have a processor you know go get deny because something on their record and you know they’ll go on in they’ll column will complain and or the little write a review that you know this company’s taking 25 dollars away from us and you know and you know they’re getting rich off of that or whatever. So when I tell my company managers do I say hey listen when someone complains about the 25 dollars that we took to run their application call them back, write a check for them and give it back to them. So this business is filled with a lot of variables and you got to really know how to deal with it what what’s the battles you want to take on and what ones you don’t want to take on and to me doing people right you’re not going to have many battles and you know if there are you know handle the right way in a in a Integris manner and you’ll be fine

Rod: The beautiful thing about the real estate business well you’re talking you’re speaking to integrity and doing the right thing which is important in every aspect of your life. But the beautiful thing about real estate is there’s just hardly anything you can’t fix with a check. And that’s what I love about this business you know I truly it’s just the way it works and whenever you do the right thing and you give back and you and you like you, I mean you’re here on your own you have thing to sell you’re here just to just to add value and that’s why you’re so hugely successful because you’re just out here adding value man

Mike: Rod I’m passionate about it I really AM like like you know to me I just want people to know that you could achieve anything you want to achieve and you know to me you have to be a sponge you have to learn and you have to want it you know just like anything in life you know to me if I want to if I want to lose some weight, I got to go to the gym and I got to eat right, if you want to be successful you gotta follow rules and those rules are based on integrity doing things the right way and you know I love with someone when we have a check and I say hey what’s his check for and they’re like well it’s for a security deposit. We’re giving back this person our security deposit because their home is you know in great shape. I love that! When I see so many property management companies out there that don’t do that. They unrightfully take someone’s money so to me doing things right in integrity you become a magnet, people want to be around you and deals come your way

Rod: No question no question any anything you give, you get back tenfold

Mike: Absolutely

Rod: Listen listen brother you’ve added a ton of value. I can see why you’re on podcasts regularly because you truly add a ton of value. it’s been my absolute pleasure to meet you and and I’m certain that our paths will cross. I’m sure again in the very near future thanks thanks

Mike: Rod it’s a real pleasure to have spoken to you. I’ve listened to you a lot you’re a great educator

Rod: Thanks man

Mike: A great person and to me it’s you know it’s an honor to be on your podcast talking to you and I look forward to listening to your podcast for many years to come

Rod: Oh thank you brother that’s kind of you to say take care of my friend

Mike: Thank you

Rod: You too


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