Ep #213 – Logan Hand – Real Estate Deal Maker at 25, From Wholesaler to Multifamily Investor
Here’s some of what you will learn:
- How to be a real estate investor without any money
- Wholesale properties
- How to leverage social media
- How to find buyers
- Importance of residential brokers
- CBC – Concrete Block Construction
- Creative financing
- Importance of partner involvement
- Owners vs renters paying utilities
- Where to look for deals
- Importance of on-site property manager
- Cozy.co free rental and management platform
- When to refinance
- Understanding when to sell and when to hold properties
- Understanding the value of cold calling
- Podio and Reonomy platforms
- The value of Mom and Pop sellers
- KP – Key Principle Investor
- Book Recommendation: The Contrarian Playbook by Manny Khoshbin
About our Guest:
To reach Logan Hand please visit:
http://www.sellquickgetcash.com
Full Transcript Below:
Ep #213 – Logan Hand – Real Estate Deal Maker at 25, From Wholesaler to Multifamily Investor
Rod Khleif: Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am thrilled you’re here. I know you’re gonna love the guy we’re interviewing today.
He’s a young ball of fire. His name is Logan Hand. He’s 25 years old, started out in wholesaling, in Fort Myers, Florida just down the road from me here. And now he’s into multifamily.
I thought he’d be great to have on the show to inspire those of you that are in your 20s, as to how to do this business with little or no money to get started.
Logan, welcome to the show, brother.
Logan Hand: Thank you so much man, I’m super, super stoked to be here.
Rod Khleif: Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your story. Where you started?… And then how you got into real estate? Why you got into real estate? And how you got to where you’re at now?
Logan Hand: Absolutely. I was about 22, when I started investing. I spent about two years after I graduated college, basically, just kinda figuring stuff out. I was selling stuff in the insurance business, which was a business that I kind of grown up around. And I just really didn’t like my life…
I was always interested in real estate shows, and stuff like that, and again, I read this book on real estate investing called, The Contrarian Playbook by Manny Khoshbin. He was basically someone that I idolized. I see him on Instagram. He has all these amazing cars…
Rod Khleif: Yeah, if you guys are listening, check him out on Instagram. He’s got the Bugatti. He’s got the trophy wife, the big house. He’s got a garage that’s just second to none. That’s awesome.
Logan Hand: It’s super awesome.
Rod Khleif: I’ve read his book too. It’s a good book actually.
Logan Hand: It is. And it basically just breaks down all the different types of assets that are out there and how they make money. It lays out their pluses and their minuses for each one.
From then on, I looked at everything, when I went outside, at McDonald’s, a mall; everything totally different. But I didn’t take action or anything. The way I kind of mentally told myself was, I need to have a business, be successful, to make a lot of money. And then take the lot of money, and start buying a lot of real estate.
Eventually, I hit my breaking point in sales. I was like, “I just can’t do what I’m doing anymore.” And I started Googling. I tried to figure out how can I be a real estate investor without having the money to buy a house.
I started having a bunch of Facebook ads, went through a teaching program, and I got a mentor. Spent the majority of my money on mentorship. And then day one, I went full time. I quit my other thing. I didn’t one foot in, one foot out. I just said, “Listen, I am either going to succeed or I’m gonna run out of money in two months, and I’m screwed.”
Rod Khleif: Okay, can I stop you for one second… Guys, don’t do that.
Logan Hand: Don’t do that. Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Those of you listening; don’t do that. Keep your job, get some income coming in first.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: I admire the fact that you did it, and were successful, but I don’t wanna condone that because…
Logan Hand: I would not recommend it either.
Rod Khleif: Alright. Alright.
Logan Hand: I came from a position where I’ve never had a paycheck in my entire life. I’ve always sold something, or had a commission.
Rod Khleif: Right, so you’re comfortable with that.
Logan Hand: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: You’re okay with that stress. Most people aren’t.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: That’s why I wanted a caveat with what you just said. Well, good for you… So you quit your job, you found a mentor… You guys know how I feel about mentors.
Logan Hand: Amazing.
Rod Khleif: You got to have them. You find somebody in your local market… I coach for that reason, and there’re lots of great coaches out there. Get help. That’s how you maximize your efforts, and so I’m sure that contributed to your success… [overlap talk]
Logan Hand: Absolutely. For me it was all about… People look at the price of mentorship. Whatever the price is, it’s kind of irrelevant. Right?… People get hung up on that. But the reality is, in this business, you can make mistakes that will cost you way more than that, so fast, that it’s worth it to just have someone tell you, “This works, this doesn’t work”, type of thing.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. They’ve got the blueprint.
Logan Hand: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: It’s stupid to reinvent the wheel. It’s all been done before. I’ve got a Mastermind actually at my compound here in Sarasota, next weekend. There’s only gonna be about 50 people there but it’s gonna be a half a billion dollars in that room.
Logan Hand: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: And so, I’m doing the same thing. I’m learning from these people. It’s my Mastermind, but I’m there to learn.
Logan Hand: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: I’m not there just to teach.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: Alright. Fantastic. So you got a mentor and you got into wholesaling. Talk about that a little bit. It’s not something we talk about in the show much ‘cause…
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: I think it’s painful. Especially, if you’re wholesaling multifamily because it’s much better to buy it, own it, and keep it.
Logan Hand: Agree.
Rod Khleif: But it is a great vehicle… Well, I’ll let you tell it. Please… I’m stealing your thunder…
Logan Hand: Yeah. No… Okay. [chuckles] I’m one of those guys that say… I’m like, Terry Crews. I’ll interview myself, almost.
[laughter]
Logan Hand: But yeah, wholesaling, the way I kinda tell it, you’re almost creating cash out of thin air. Right? A lot of times, if liquidity is an issue, wholesaling could be a vehicle to get you to where you have that liquid, to then go and play the bigger game, which is the commercial, and the multifamily and stuff like that.
Basically, I focused for a good 12-24 months on wholesaling. It’s really a marketing thing, you got to always constantly tweak the marketing and…
Rod Khleif: So talk about that a little bit. Talk about some of the marketing things that you did and you learned from your mentor, about how to find off market deals.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: You were doing all single-family, I assume. That’s the [overlap talk]
Logan Hand: Yeah. I had never… I didn’t know anything about multifamily when I first started. I was just focused on doing my first deal. I bootstrapped it. I didn’t have a ton of money to spend on direct mail, and stuff like that.
First it was a ton of bandit signs. And I would do 75 signs every weekend, week after week after week until I finally got the deal. They would call in and then I took the money from the first one, and then I would put it into marketing, so I could get more deal flow. Whether that’s direct mail, I was doing Google Pay Per Click. I was doing some Facebook ads and stuff.I was obviously connecting with a lot of flippers and stuff like that, that would also bring me deals that maybe they wanted to liquidate, or properties they were jumping in and out of.
Rod Khleif: Where’d you find the flippers? Just for my listeners, how’d you connect with all these people? Because ultimately, when you wholesale, you’ve got to find the buyers. I mean the buyers… In fact, you really have to find the buyers before you find the properties.
Logan Hand: 100%. Yup.
Rod Khleif: Okay. So how did you find those buyers?
Logan Hand: This will probably irritate a lot of people, but the majority of my buyers’ list, and this is a big misconception too… You don’t need a massive buyers’ list.
Rod Khleif: No.
Logan Hand: You need 15 solid guys that are buying every month. That’s what you need. Almost all these people called me on my bandit signs.
Rod Khleif: Oh, no kidding. Oh, that’s funny.
Logan Hand: Yeah. Literally. They just saw it and… [overlap talk]
Rod Khleif: Okay. And that’s a great way to get buyers too.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: That’s a strategy for getting buyers, believe it or not.
Logan Hand: Yup.
Rod Khleif: Another way, just for those of you listening is to actually go to the County Assessor’s Records and see who’s paying cash for properties, and you’ll find them that way as well.
This is not an episode on wholesaling, I really just want those of you that… and if you’re a seasoned multifamily investor and you’re in the 50 plus range, this may not be the interview for you actually. I probably should have pre-framed this by saying, “This is really for the young guy that doesn’t really have any money, that wants to get something going.” This is a great vehicle to get something going.
Logan Hand: Yup.
Rod Khleif: Would you agree with me Logan?
Logan Hand: Yeah. It’s a liquidity creator.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: I always say to people, “Listen, I wouldn’t advice staying in it for a very long period of time.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: It’s a very stressful business. Wholesaling is a very difficult, complex operation, and there’s a lot of moving parts, obviously. I would recommend, make some money, save your money, and when you can make that transition into multifamily, definitely get there because it’s a lot more of a fruitful and truly just a better place to be investing in than single-family stuff.
Rod Khleif: Last question on wholesaling, how many houses did you wholesale? And then why and when did you make the transition into multifamily?
Logan Hand: I bought my first apartment building in my first full year, it was like at the end of the first year investing. I’ve probably done about 20 to 25 houses at that point.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Okay.
Logan Hand: People ask me that. It’s a weird thing, right? I never sought the apartment building, the deal just happened, and I took advantage of the opportunity.
Rod Khleif: Was it in your market in Lee County?
Logan Hand: It was.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: The other thing that people hate is that it was an MLS deal. [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: Oh, it was. No kidding… Well, hey, listen, there’s nothing wrong. I’ve bought hundreds of properties on the MLS.
Logan Hand: I know.
Rod Khleif: And those of you listening that are in the multifamily space, if you don’t have a relationship with a residential broker, you’re making a big mistake. Because a lot of multifamily ends up on the MLS because a residential broker is not associated with LoopNet, they don’t know where else to put it. So it’ll end up on the residential MLS.
You need to have an alliance, whatever market you’re in, you must have a relationship with a residential broker if you’re doing multifamily because, again, things pop up there. I was with my good friends, Kevin Bupp; he does mobile home parks. He had this big park in the middle of the state here in Florida…
[00:10:01]
Rod Khleif: That we visited, and he got that through an MLS listing from a residential broker that was clueless as to where to list it.
Set up a relationship with a residential broker; have them let you know if they know anything multifamily ever pops up. You be their go to guy, and I will tell you, it will pay off.
Anyway, MLS…
Logan Hand: That was exactly… What you described, was actually what happened.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: It was an inexperienced realtor and he really was just haphazard about the whole process…
Rod Khleif: Nobody looks there, by the way.
Logan Hand: Exactly.
Rod Khleif: Nobody in the multifamily space… Guys, this is a ninja trick I’m sharing with you guys here.
Logan Hand: Yup.
Rod Khleif: Nobody looks in the MLS for larger multifamily. Like commercial, like your seven… This was your seven-unit, right?
Logan Hand: Yup, seven units.
Rod Khleif: Alright. Continue. I’m sorry.
Logan Hand: Essentially, what had happened was, this deal had gotten stale. He never refreshed the listing. It was just buried on the MLS, and I had the realtor that just resold… Actually, the first rehab flip I ever did, he sold it for me. A couple of weeks later, he calls me and says, “Hey man, I got this apartment building, and to me, the numbers look really great but I don’t know why nobody’s buying it.”
He was coming to me and saying, “Hey, one of your buyers… you got to have a landlord buyer in there. Can we somehow figure out how we can make this deal work?” I blew him off at first ‘cause I really didn’t know how to make a middle man… the whole thing.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: Eventually, he kept calling, so I said, “Alright man, let’s check the building out. Let’s set up an appointment.” I called one of my buyers, and I said, “Hey man, did you say you’re trying to buy some more rental properties or something like that?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I said, “What about seven units? Would that pique your interest?” He said, “Well yeah, that sounds great. I’d love to… I wanna get to 10 doors this year, so that sounds great.”
Anyways, we go there, we tour the property. It’s CBS. It’s individually metered, the roof is good…
Rod Khleif: CBS, for those of you who don’t live in Florida, concrete block construction. Okay.
Logan Hand: That’s right. In Florida, that’s huge for us ‘cause we hate wood.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: We go in there and the units are good. They’re in market condition, and it’s just a lot of bad tenants. This was kind of a C class that if you put the wrong people in there, it could be really bad. We’re like, “Man, the asset itself is good.” There’s plenty of upside. There’s space for a laundry room that he never put in. There was tons of things that we could do, and the asset needed no work.
Rod Khleif: Okay. What was the price?
Logan Hand: The price originally was 289 for seven.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: At the time, we thought it was a pretty good deal, about 30-35 a door, roughly.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: We negotiated it down to 250,025 [overlap talk]
Rod Khleif: That’s what you closed at?
Logan Hand: That’s what we closed at.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: I remember, what happened was my buyer said, “Hey, I love this deal. I’m gonna buy this deal.” He said, “You don’t have it under contract as a wholesaler so I can’t pay you an assignment fee.”
I said, “Yeah, that’s correct.” He said, “But how would you like to own half of the property?” I said, “Well, that sounds awesome. I’d love to own half of it.”
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: He’s like, “I’ll get the loan, cause I can qualify for it by myself, and you just come up with half of the money for the down payment.” He’s like, “Can you come up with it?” It was like 32-33 grand. I was like, “ I don’t have it right now. But I will get it. I will make sure that I have it. Let’s do it.”
I went through the loan process with him, went through underwriting, went through all the appraisals, all that stuff. They basically gave us the loan just based on his accreditations and what he had.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: That’s kinda how I got the first…
Rod Khleif: That was your first deal, 50-50.
Logan Hand: That was the first one… [overlap talk]
Rod Khleif: But you had to put up half of the money
Logan Hand: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: I’ll tell you guys, those of you… I don’t know. I’ve said this on the podcast here. But I bought 10s of millions of dollars worth of property when I was Logan’s age here, in the 20s, in Denver, 50-50 with partners. I made them put up the money. They put up all the money, and I did all the work but we split them 50-50. I will tell you, that’s a sweet way to do it.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: But know the difference, in a partnership the partners have to have some level of involvement. They either sign on the debt or they have some decision-making capability.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: But if you take money from someone and just give them a rate of return, you’ve got to do a syndication. You’ve got to write the check and do it right. Dot the I’s and cross the T’s
Logan Hand: I agree.
Rod Khleif: Anyway, that’s how you did your first seven units. Then tell us what happened? Did you sell that one? Is that what you told me?
Logan Hand: Yeah. We held that one for about 13 months, and then we resold. We ended up getting 377,500; 377500 net to seller.
Rod Khleif: Nice. Nice.
Logan Hand: We didn’t pay ___ [00:15:03] cost or commissions.
Rod Khleif: Nice. Nice. So that’s a nice hit. Wow.
Logan Hand: It was a nice one, and then we cashed flowed about $3,000 a month in net cash while we had it.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: Basically, all I did was… I did a couple of fix. There’s a couple of tactics that I think maybe your listeners might think are smart.
Rod Khleif: Yeah… Share them.
Logan Hand: Okay. So with the laundry room, I went to one of the companies called Washco. Basically, what they do is they come set everything up for free and… [overlap talk]
Rod Khleif: You sign a long-term contract and then you split the money or something.
Logan Hand: That’s right. Yup. Then what I did with the water meters, I converted all the water meters to individual meters, and then when I got rid of the bad tenants, I had all the new tenants pay for all the water and electric. Which you know, not only really helps the NOI, but the end buyers love buildings that the tenants pay for all the utilities.
Rod Khleif: Oh, sure. That’s the ultimate, then you don’t have to worry about the tenant leaving the water running and going shopping.
Logan Hand: Yeah. What I did is a lot of these… If you go to a bigger plumbing company to do that work to change over the meters, a lot of those plumbing companies will offer their own financing, and it’s at 0% typically for a 12-month period.
What you can do is, if you crunch the numbers right, and if the amount that you’re saving in water is actually more than the payment to do that financing, you’re essentially getting all that done for free, and paying for it with the savings from the water, every month.
Rod Khleif: That’s clever. That’s a great way to justify it. Good for you. Okay.
Logan Hand: That’s what we did.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: Then we created an efficiency out of a three- 400 square foot… what do you call that… like a maintenance room or something.
Rod Khleif: No kidding. You just converted it to another unit.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: To increase the revenue. Fantastic.
Logan Hand: That’s right. That was rented at like 500 bucks a month. Long story short, we got it to an NOI of about 56,000 a month, and when we bought it…
Rod Khleif: A year…
Logan Hand: Yeah. Sorry. A year.
Rod Khleif: Right. Okay. What did you have in it in capex to do all that work? Did you bootstrap it? Or did you…?
Logan Hand: Yeah. We spent less than 10 grand to do…
Rod Khleif: No kidding. Alright. You definitely bootstrapped it if you converted something to an efficiency… Okay. Alright. Fantastic. What was next? What was the next deal you did?
Logan Hand: Then came the 20-unit.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: Again, I found this deal… I like to search for deals online, late at night.
Rod Khleif: Where do you look? Share with my listeners.
Logan Hand: I look in a variety of places, stuff that’s out there. I use LoopNet. There are deals out there. You just have to catch them, right when they hit. That’s why I… [overlap talk]
Rod Khleif: Give some secrets Logan, don’t hold out here, where else do…
Logan Hand: LoopNet, Connected Investors.
Rod Khleif: Oh…
Logan Hand: Okay, Connected Investors has good deals on the market places.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: You just have to learn to use the search functions.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: What I like to do is I look in a variety of states, and I search by minimum units and then cap it at a price point. And so, say you go, you want all multifamily for sale in, pick six or seven states. Then you cap it at say, a million bucks. So you know the stuff you’re looking at is value add type things.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: I do that, and that’s like the main two that I go for, for like if I’m looking on the internet.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: There are other sites out there, like CRX, and some other places like that, but those; I’ve gotten deals from, just those two basic ones.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Okay. You found that 20-unit, tell us about that deal.
Logan Hand: That deal, when I originally found it, it’s in Montgomery, Alabama. It had eight tenants out of 20. So it was very bad occupancy. Some of the ones that were vacant were not performing because they need to be completely repaired. But for the most part, it was a brick building. It was individually electric metered. The roof is so-so; we probably need to be getting a new roof.
But for the most part, it had upsides. It was month-to-month leases, under market, and a ton of vacancies.
Rod Khleif: Okay, what was the unit mix, bedrooms?
Logan Hand: 12, two ones, and eight one-ones.
Rod Khleif: Okay. What was the price that you ended up buying it for?
Logan Hand: Yeah, so a wholesaler had it under contract, when I first saw it…
Rod Khleif: How did you connect… I’m sorry, I wanna do this step by step. How did you connect with that wholesaler?
Logan Hand: ConnectedInvestors.com
Rod Khleif: Connected Investors.
Logan Hand: Yup.
Rod Khleif: Fantastic. Okay.
Logan Hand: He had it listed in the market place there. I saw it the day after he put it out there, or a couple of days after, or something like that.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: When I first approached him, he said he has an offer on it and he has it under contract.
[00:20:02]
Logan Hand: And I said to him, “Well, most likely,” because the price was very attractive, I said, “Most likely, it’s another wholesaler that thinks he can wholesale this property and it’s probably not gonna work out.” So I said, “When that doesn’t work out, I wanna be the first person that you talk to.”
He didn’t call me, but a week later, I called him. And sure enough, the guy defaulted.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: So I swooped in, we put it under contract, and then we went in to due diligence, and I started inspecting.
Rod Khleif: What did you put it under contract at?
Logan Hand: We originally started, I think at 330.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: 330 or 340?
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: And I ended at 290.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: Because when I got there, he didn’t even have pictures of anything but the Google Earth of the outside.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: And here’s the coolest part, we got that deal at 290 on an owner financing deal, with only 12.5% down, and 5.5% interest on a three year paper hold.
Rod Khleif: Wow… So what’s the plan there?
Logan Hand: We bought that building in November, I’m already at 100% occupancy.
Rod Khleif: Wow. Fantastic. Good job. Good job… How did you go in and do that, at 2,000 miles away?
Logan Hand: It’s been a heck of a challenge.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: I found one person… Let me back up. I have a property manager that lives there.
Rod Khleif: Good. Good. Okay.
Logan Hand: So one of the tenants stepped up and said, “Hey, I’d really like to be the manager, and help out here.”
Rod Khleif: Perfect.
Logan Hand: We comped her her rent, now granted her rent was $350. We kinda felt like we got a good end of that deal.
Rod Khleif: Sure you did. Sure you did.
Logan Hand: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: What does she do for that?
Logan Hand: She does a lot. She makes sure that the outside areas are clean, there’s no trash…
Rod Khleif: Alright, she picks up everyday.
Logan Hand: Right. She let’s me know if there’s tenants having issues, that I need to call vendors, coordinate for repairs. She makes sure that the vendors that are there are not ripping me off.
Rod Khleif: Right. She keeps an eye on them.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: She’s the conduit for your residents to get a hold of you.
Logan Hand: That’s right. They call me too…
Rod Khleif: Oh, they do. Okay.
Logan Hand: But if they can go to her first, they will.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: She also kind of help select if a person is coming there to look, if these are some good people that are going to live…
Rod Khleif: She uses her intuition to see if they’re…
Logan Hand: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: Okay. So did she help you with the lease up? Or did you handle all that before she came on board?
Logan Hand: Well, yes. She was part of the lease up. I sent her a packet of leases, and we went over it line by line over the phone. We said, “This is how we’re gonna fill this out,” all the leases were already signed.
Rod Khleif: I see.
Logan Hand: So they’re already executed, and so they…
Rod Khleif: You mean signed by you?
Logan Hand: Yeah, digitally signed by me.
Rod Khleif: Got it. Got it. So these were blank leases that she could use but were signed by you so she can sign them out.
Logan Hand: Right. That’s correct.
Rod Khleif: Got it. Okay.
Logan Hand: That’s right. Then essentially, she would do the showings and stuff like that. She also collects when people pay so. I tried to get tenants on digital pay, ‘cause we prefer that with our rental platform.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: Which, by the way, we use Cozy. It’s free any landlord can use it.
Rod Khleif: Nice. C-O-Z-Y?
Logan Hand: Yes. C-O-Z-Y dot C-O.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: It’s a free rental and management platform. It’s great.
Rod Khleif: Nice. Thank you for that. That’s great.
Logan Hand: Yes. No problem.
Rod Khleif: For those of you just getting started. So you let her collect rent… the red flag…
Logan Hand: Money orders.
Rod Khleif: Okay. That’s great.
Logan Hand: They have money orders and they make it out to me
Rod Khleif: Okay, great. Perfect.
Logan Hand: We started with less money so she would collect a little and I would see how much would get put in the bank.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: We haven’t missed any money yet.
Rod Khleif: And she deposits for you, and let’s you know what she deposited.
Logan Hand: That’s right. So I give her a ledger and I said, “I wanna know not only what you collected but what is it for. “ And then make sure those numbers line up between the bank and what she’s saying.
Rod Khleif: Have you refinanced the property or are you working on that?
Logan Hand: Not yet. We…
Rod Khleif: Don’t wait. Don’t wait. Rates are going up my friend.
Logan Hand: I know.
Rod Khleif: Do it. Don’t wait.
Logan Hand: We’re in the process now.
Rod Khleif: Unless you’re gonna sell it. if you’re gonna keep it, refinance it right away. If not, then that’s different.
Logan Hand: Our intentions are to sell it.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: And then 1031 into a larger property that’s less management intensive.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: This was essentially a stepping-stone property that we knew we could make a nice chunk of equity on, and then take that equity and get a 50 or 70 unit. That’s the plan.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Can I give you an alternative?
Logan Hand: Get a hundred?
Rod Khleif: No.
Logan Hand: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: I’ll give you another alternative. Refinance it, and learn how to syndicate, and use that property as an example of what your capable of and you’ll have people throwing money at you if you find a deal. And yes, you may only end up with 30 to 50% of that deal, but you’ll still own your property.
I just interviewed Albert Berriz again, that owns… I don’t know… He’s owned 10s of thousands of units. I think…
Logan Hand: This was the last episode?
Rod Khleif: Uh-huh.
Logan Hand: Dude, that episode was awesome. I really liked it.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, well the point is, he made a comment that… I steal his line. His line is, “I’m a real estate buyer, not a seller.” I’ll just tell you, if you can hold on, hold on. Unless it’s in a tough area, whatever, but if it’s a property that will continue to cash flow, and you can refinance it, get your money out, maybe get a little extra money out and just utilize your knowledge and your passion, and your ability to find deals. Combine that with some knowledge on how to syndicate… You already know how to do partnerships.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Get out there and keep properties instead of using…
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: ‘Cause you could go buy a 70-unit without having to use the cash from that deal. That’s just my two cents.
Logan Hand: Right. I like that. I think that’s great advice.
Rod Khleif: It’s something to think about.
Logan Hand: It is crazy like right now, so we have about… My partner has about 60K of capital tied up into that deal. That property is netting about 7,000 a month. [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: Okay, so why the hell would you get rid of it? So that’s my point. Refinance that thing and you’ve got seven grand a month you’re splitting. And that’s just gonna go up.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Then go… I mean, listen, there’s something to be said for pulling a big chunk of cash out as well if you need it for something else but you do not need it to go out and do deals, guys. You don’t need the money.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: Keep your money for operational purposes; don’t use it for the equity. And if you’ll find the deals, you’ll find the money. There’s so much money out there for deals right now.
Logan Hand: That’s what I think is so different in the multifamily world, ‘cause like you said earlier, wholesaling is like you sort of do need that buyers to make money but in multifamily, man, if you just find a deal that’s investable, and it’s a deal, there’s money in abundance.
Rod Khleif: That’s right. No, there’s no question. So guys, you’ll get a kick out of this, Logan hunted me down on Instagram.
Logan Hand: Yes.
Rod Khleif: He was relentless to get on the show. I was so impressed with his follow through, and his commitment to get on the show, that I did it.
Logan Hand: Thank you so much.
Rod Khleif: No, my pleasure. Usually, we’ve got guys on with hundreds of thousands of units, but I knew you’d add value. I’m really grateful for you being on the show.
Guys, I wanna put in a quick plug for my LA event. It’s coming up in April. If you can make it… Tickets are two to 300 bucks; it’s a no brainer.
Logan Hand:That’s a steal.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, three days of just me, I don’t have other people coming trying to sell you stuff. It’s all about this business. It’s all about what I just said, learning how to syndicate so that you can use other people’s money to do deals, instead of your own.
Fantastic. What else can you share with my listeners? You got any other ninja tricks as to…?
Logan Hand: I will say… I’ll just kinda go into… Obviously, my first two deals, my first two multifamily deals just kind of, one fell into my lap, and the other one, I hunted. I’d say, I kinda got lucky ‘cause I found it on the Internet.
Now, I’m toying a lot around with how I find deals, wholesale-wise, in today’s world, to do the same multifamily. What that looks like is we’re a big proponent for cold calling but…
Rod Khleif: Have you started doing it?
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: Not only that, but I’ve started compiling a lot of really great data in the multifamily space. It is the best way to reach who you need to reach, period. It’s just a matter of doing an operation.
It’s one thing that one-person calls, but it’s another thing if someone’s calling, calling, calling all the time. Then there’s follow ups, and there’s text messages, and there’s voicemail blast. There’s all these different ways to drip on people, and there’s a lot of data out there that will show that text messaging, is the most opened form of communication that we have right now.
Rod Khleif: Period. No question.
Logan Hand: Period.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, we do the same thing in one of my other company. I own another company that when we’re doing collections, sometimes, we’ll just text.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Instead of the phone call, they respond to the texts. The same thing applies to owners.
Logan Hand: Yup.
Rod Khleif: So are you setting up a platform using Podio or something to set all this up?
Logan Hand: Yeah. My CRM has been Podio on the single-family side.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: What I’m doing now, I’ll give you a little secret. I found this company that’s called Reonomy. Have you heard of this place?
Rod Khleif: No. How do you spell that?
Logan Hand: It’s R-E-O-N-O-M-Y. It’s like economy but Reonomy.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: Essentially, it’s like CoStar. It’s very similar to CoStar.
Rod Khleif: Okay. I have heard of this.
Logan Hand:But it’s a fraction of the price.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: It’s 150 bucks a month.
[00:30:02]
Logan Hand: And it essentially gives you a certain amount of searches, depending on how much you pay, to where you can search anywhere in the country for whatever commercial asset class you’re going after. And then it has like this spider that get’s you directly to the owner, and then it gives you the owner’s phone numbers and contact information.
Rod Khleif: Wow.
Logan Hand: You can search like, what I do… I might be giving away too much here but it’s about helping… I go after the assets that have been owned for at least five years or more.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Same here.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: No. No. No. Listen, that’s a must do. In fact, we try to go 20 years if we can.
Logan Hand: If you can.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. If there’s enough of a list.
Logan Hand: Yep.
Rod Khleif: Because those people are retired. There’s seller-financing opportunities, just a whole bunch of reasons why those are low hanging fruits.
Logan Hand: If you can even get to the point where you can see the owners, and it’s like you could tell that it’s a husband and a wife, like those are gold.
Rod Khleif: Right. Mom and pop sellers’
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: That’s what you’re gonna get in the five to really 40 to 50-unit range.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Logan Hand: I’m looking now… My goal this year is to do 200 units. I’ve teamed up with some people that have given me not only liquid capital but also access to the leverage that they can get because of their higher net worths.
Rod Khleif: Mm-hmm. Sure.
Logan Hand: I’m trying to get a 50 and above, and get into that world so I’m going through some transitional hurdles and stuff like that.
Rod Khleif: Listen, the way to do that, and sounds like you’re doing it. You align yourself with people that have 100 units, or 200 units, or 300 units and you allow them… You bring them in as a KP, and you ask them to let you be KP on the deal, key principal. That’s how you get started.
That’s how everybody gets started. They get a piece and you get a piece, and you get it on your resume. Then, frankly, you don’t need them anymore.
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: I mean, you still align with them, it’s not like you’re gonna discard them but there’s strength in numbers. And that’s how everybody does this business.
Logan Hand: Sure.
Rod Khleif: One of the great ways to do this is you bring somebody like that in, and then you create your own brand, and you use that experienced operator. You ask them to allow you to use their experience when you’re out there approaching brokers and it just elevates you instantly.
Logan Hand: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: You can say, “Well, we own 300 units.”
Logan Hand: Right.
Rod Khleif: When you only own 10. But the point is, you’re able to leverage their experience… Listen, this is a relationship business guys. You’ve got to build those relationships. And if they see your passion and integrity, and they feel like they can benefit from your energy. Those of you that are young, that are trying to do this, that’s the way to do it, okay.
It’s to align yourself with somebody that’s done it. With like my coaching students on their branding websites, I’m listed as a senior adviser, and that’s the same dynamic. You can do this yourself. You just find somebody that owns some property, and you leverage their experience to build your own credibility. That’s the point I’m making.
Logan Hand: I love that.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Well, Logan, this has been a real treat. I’ve really enjoyed this. You got to come up; we got to have lunch some time.
Logan Hand: Yes, sure.
Rod Khleif: You’re an hour away. We got to make that happen.
Logan Hand: I really appreciate that, man.
Rod Khleif: Alright.
Logan Hand: I just wanna say, thank you so much not only for giving me a shot and letting me be on here but truly, thank you for what you put out.
Rod Khleif: You’re welcome, brother.
Logan Hand: Because people need to hear what you have to say, and there’s a lot of value to the things that you’re talking about. It’s really helped me in my world. Just the mental stuff too man. That stuff is huge. People won’t realize it until they go through it but it’s super important.
It’s gonna get tough, and you’re gonna wanna quit, and there’s hard moments that you feel. You got to have people like you in your life that are gonna say, “Listen, this is how you manage your thoughts.”
Rod Khleif: Right.
Logan Hand: I’m appreciative of that, and grateful for it to be honest.
Rod Khleif: My pleasure brother, and take care. Talk to you soon.
Logan Hand: You too. Thank you so much.
Rod Khleif: You bet.
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Thank you for listening to the Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing Podcast. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and leave your comments. For more resources or to connect with us further, please visit our website at rodkhleif.com. Tune in next week for our next show.
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