Ep #137 – Paul Morris Shares 3 Rules To Invest In Real Estate

  • Here’s some of what you will learn:
    • Flipping property is a great way to make money to invest in income producing assets.
    • When you should leave a comfortable job.
    • Paul’s 3 Rules when investing in Real estate.
    • Buy where you know, asset must cash flow, and add value.
    • When you should invest in a gentrifying neighborhood.
    • How to associate pleasure with investing.
    • Why you should add “with ease” at the end of your goals.
    • Why you should model other successful people.
    • The one phrase that will allow you to sit down and have coffee with anyone.
    • “What would it take to earn the right to sit down for coffee with you?”
    • Associate yourself with people at a higher level.
    • How to manage your close friends that are not at a higher level.
    • Rather than judge, notice.
    • If you want to be less angry, you need to first be light on yourself.
    • Why you should use the word “Interesting” in any negative experience.
    • You can learn something from everyone.
    • Book Recommendation – Wealth Cant Wait By Paul Morris and David Osborn
    • Learn more about Paul http://www.morrisx.com/
    • Connect with me on Facebook at Rod Khleif.
    • Text Rod to 41411 or visit RodKhleif.com for a FREE copy of my book, “How to Create Lifetime Cash Flow Through Multifamily Properties.”

Full Transcript:

Ep #137 – Paul Morris Shares 3 Rules To Invest In Real Estate – Lifetime Cash Flow Podcast

Welcome. This is the Lifetime CashFlow Through Real Estate Investing Podcast. This is where you’ll learn strategies to help you achieve lifetime financial freedom through real estate investment. Your host, Rod Khleif, has owned over 2,000 homes and apartments. And he brings experts in all aspects of real estate investment and management on to the show. Now, here’s your host, Rod Khleif.

Rod Khleif:   Couple of quick things. We are now over a million and a half downloads for this podcast. I’m just blown away that we’ve literally been number one in the real estate section, the business section, in the education sections of iTunes for almost a year.  It just blows me away. I just wanna thank you guys for that.

Thank you for the awesome emails I get. The handwritten thank-you notes I get from you guys. I mean they really, means the world to me. I’ve been blessed to have spoken with or communicated with almost a thousand of you. I’ll tell you adding value to you has honestly caused me to evaluate and shift my own mission and purpose in life.

Many of you, over the last year, have asked me for help with either coaching, or mentoring, suggested I create something, a course or training materials. I absolutely never started this podcast with the intent to do that. But I’ve gotten so much pleasure out of these conversations and the gratitude I get from those of you when you take action that I finally decided to go ahead and do it.

In a few weeks, I’m launching an incredible course and coaching program. My goal is to help you crush it in your lives and in this exciting business and build your own lifetime cash flow. So if you wanna get more information on that, my course and coaching, when it becomes available text the word CRUSH, C-R-U-S-H to 41411.

Another thing my book is still free. My free book is still free; 200-paged book. If you haven’t gotten it and you’re serious about this business you’re making a mistake. Get your free copy, text the word Rod to 41411, or go to rodkhleif.com and get it.

Now lastly, I just have a favor, if you’re getting value from this podcast I’d be very grateful if you, literally, took two minutes; that’s all it takes. Go to iTunes and leave me a 5-star rating and review. It makes a huge difference in our ranking, and our ability to get great people for me to interview. Thank you in advance, if you do that for me. Alright, let’s get to it.

Rod Khleif:   Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime CashFlow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled you’re here. I know you’re gonna get a ton of value from the fascinating gentlemen that were interviewing today.

He’s not just a very successful real estate investor. He owns over 700 multi-family units, and 150,000 square feet of commercial retail space. He’s also the second largest Keller Williams franchisee. His offices in California have over 3,000 realtors, and they do over $7 billion with the real estate a year. So he’s got the 22nd largest real estate brokerage in the United States, very impressive. He’s also the Regional Director for Keller Williams in Southern California, and overseas, 37 offices with over 10,000 realtors. And he just published an awesome book called Wealth Can’t Wait which we’re gonna dig into. Paul, thanks for being on the show, buddy.

Paul :             Thank you very much. I’ve had a chance to see your podcasts, several episodes, and also some of the videos that they do. Very impressed, and grateful to have the opportunity to talk to you, and also to the folks that listen to you.

Rod Khleif:   Awesome. Well thank you for that. Yeah, we’re having a lot of fun. We just went over a million and a half downloads, it’s been really well received. I think it’s because people know I love this. I’m really enjoying this and adding value.

Do you mind expanding on your bio a little bit? Just talking about your foray into real estate. How you got started maybe, cause my listeners are aspiring, or an existing a multi-family owners. Talk about how you got started.

Paul Morris:                        Sure. Well, to begin with I’m from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The child of a dad, who went through the Great Depression, didn’t go to college. So he was an entrepreneur for sure, but really super hard working, and working 12-hour days, six, seven days a week. His vision for his kids was to use education to get to the climb social status or economic status. Of two brothers and two sisters, we’ve got three doctors. I went to law school.

Rod Khleif:   Wow.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah. I went to law school. Much like what I read about and saw with you, it’s not a matter of intelligence but if you don’t have the ability to sit still, school can be a massive challenge. I was able to do it anyway but that’s through massive force, more than anything else. I have the brains to do it but I couldn’t sit still. It was later in life that I realized that the inability to sit still really is the ability to get stuff done.

Rod Khleif:   It’s an asset.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   It’s an asset. Yes sir.

Paul Morris:                        Yep. So I followed the educational path that really was the family thing. Then I found myself in a major… Sort of the gold standard, major New York law firm where I was an associate, and it’s paper pushing. One of the things that I found was, no matter how much we earn it doesn’t matter. Whatever your hourly rate is… Some of the highest paid lawyers right now are making a thousand or $1,200 an hour. The thing that gets me with that is…

Rod Khleif:   Trying for money.

Paul Morris:                        Yes. When they’re playing golf, they’re not getting paid. So I’ve always had this thing with passive income and I also… My dad bought some multi-family stuff, and I saw that as a real stable way to build wealth overtime. The first thing I did was, it was before I completed my law degree, so before I really had that career, was buy a duplex.

Rod Khleif:   No kidding.

Paul Morris:                        I did that together with a friend in Pittsburgh, and we’ve built, since then, mostly together, this large real estate portfolio.

Rod Khleif:   Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Pittsburgh’s a great market. From what I understand, it didn’t suffer like Florida did through a lot of the ups and downs. Denver was kinda similar. It does not get impacted as much. At least that’s what I’ve heard. I got crushed here in Florida, you guys in California, and Vegas. They all got crushed in 08.

Paul Morris:                        One of the funny things they said about that was we didn’t have a hangover because we weren’t invited to the party.

Rod Khleif:   [laughter] Well that’s a party, it’s okay you missed.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   Let me tell you… So correct me if I’m wrong, you’ve got a pretty good pedigree educationally as well. I think you went to some pretty impressive schools. I don’t have them here in front of me but where’d you study?

Paul Morris:            Yes… yes. I did an undergrad at University of Pittsburgh where I’m from. Then I went, I graduated top of my class. I went to University of Oxford…

Rod Khleif:   Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        With a scholarship to study management, and then Cornell Law School.

Rod Khleif:   Very cool. Very cool. So wow. That JD is just sitting on a shelf right now.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah, well…

Rod Khleif:   You’re just… And that’s okay. It sounds like you’re doing fine in your own right. So I know that Keller Williams is an awesome real estate franchise. I’ve got a great friend that’s got a good franchise up in Canada.

So, you wrote a book.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   What prompted that? Where did that come from?

Paul Morris:                        Well, as you mentioned, with me leading this big sales team and then also you tie that together with my background, not being in sales. I was one of the few Keller Williams owners that didn’t come from the field; come from sales force.

Sure, I’m a good educator so I could learn the materials and teach the materials but it didn’t feel as authentic, for example, as having one of our top producers teach a great listing presentation or how to get the client. In order to add value, I looked around, and I really saw that sales’ a very interesting thing. As you implement these systems, and you work harder on your 20%, and you drive your income up.

Then when I found out was as these people were driving their income up it wasn’t necessarily, and often not the case, driving their wealth. So my contribution to my sales force was to put together a curriculum on building well. That’s what I felt like, “Okay, well this is what’s missing.”

A lot of what a real estate companies don’t teach much of anything. Then Keller Williams came along and said, “Hey, we’re an education company.” They’ve all these great, great programs but it’s all about building your sales business, which I totally understand. What do you do once you have the sales business? And that is build wealth.

Rod Khleif:   Like any business or any sales-related profession, the real estate business is really good example of this. Unless you’re using that income and buying assets that produce cash flow, every January 1st you go back to work.

Paul Morris:            Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Those of my listeners that are listening that have a full-time job, they’re in that job until they build passive income that can offset and/or replace that job. And doesn’t matter what the job is, whether it’s a commissioned sales job like your people, or if it’s a 9:00-to-5:00 rat race sort of a job. The key here is taking that money and building wealth, and building passive income either by investing in a business, or investing in stock market if you wanna risk that, or in a cash flowing real estate. Be it multi-family, retail, office, whatever it is.

Well let’s talk about your book. In your book you talk about some wealth traps. It’s a perfect segue from what we were just talking about. The first one that I think, there’s like seven or eight of them.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   The first one that you list is staying in a comfortable job, so it’s exactly what we’re just talking about.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   Can you expand on that?

Paul Morris:                        Sure. One of the things that I’ll say to you… I think you and I can tell already, we speak the same language. So just what you were saying before, about January 1st you start over again. Really, I think, as a realtor, a lot of times as soon as your deal is done you start over again.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        When I build wealth and I invest in real estate, it’s one of the reasons why I don’t like flipping properties.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        That’s why I love talking to your folks, and talking to the multi-family people. And there’s nothing wrong with flipping property, if you know how to do it you have got a great…

Rod Khleif:   It’s a great way to make the money…

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   To invest in income producing assets, whatever they are.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Be it multi-family or whatever, but you’ve got to make the money. But it’s so painful especially when you go back and you look at those properties that you flipped, and you think to yourself, “Oh my God, if I had just hung on to them”, or if they made sense for that, but it’s a job. Anyway, I interrupted please continue.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah, no. I was just saying, one of the things I do on the multi-family side is, on any particular deal, I’ll spend the bulk of the time in the acquisition, and then, what I call, sort of the repositioning. Then I put that, to use your terminology, I put that on the shelf.

I find an amazing deal and it’s fantastic. I’ve got a great plan to reposition it. After I’m done with that, I put it on the shelf.

Rod Khleif:   Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        And then that’s an asset that grows and grows and grows over time. As I watch my net worth grow over time, I get, and we see it in sort of waves. The markets will change and for a while it’ll be flat, and all of a sudden it’ll spike up, and we get to do that. When you flip a property, when you find a fabulous… I get so excited. I found a fabulous property. I’ve got this great plan to change it. If I did all that, and then sold it and took the money, now I’m back to zero again.

Rod Khleif:   Yes.

Paul Morris:                        So that’s why I feel like flipping houses is just like selling real estate. It’s just like, in a way, to get back to the question you asked me, was staying at a comfortable job. Staying in a comfortable job is doing what you know which isn’t a bad thing, but just being lulled into working for that paycheck. Different people handle this differently. In fact, my co-author and I differ a little bit on it.

I have to say, this is may be a different perspective, I’d love to share it. I don’t burn the boats, so there’s a saying like, “Okay, so when you move from one thing to another, one of the ways you get from point A to point B is you go all in and you burn the boats.” Burn the boats meaning, there’s no going back. I didn’t do that. What I did was, I stayed in a comfortable job but I didn’t fall into that wealth trap.

I stayed in the comfortable job, and I put aside enough money, and also used other people’s money in syndication, to buy real estate until that blossomed enough to where I felt comfortable enough to leave my comfortable job.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        For me, comfortable job is a little bit of a misnomer anyway because I’m not comfortable where I have to go in and somebody says, “Here’s what you got to do.” Then I got to get a performance review. I don’t want anybody giving me a performance review. It’s still occurs in my life but that’s the direction to move. It’s to where you really own your own time.
Rod Khleif:   Yeah, your performance review is how well your property does. Right?

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I interviewed Grant Cardone, he’s a fantastic sales expert and he’s got this saying that I have on my wall here actually. It’s, “Comfort kills”, and it really does. It ties right into your, “Staying in a comfortable job”, and you know some people that’s all they’ll ever do. If they’re happy, God bless them, but if you want more, you wanna get out of the rat race, you want to build wealth you’ve got to get uncomfortable.

Tony Robbins says the quality of your life is in direct proportion to the amount of discomfort you can live with. You’ve got to get uncomfortable. I love that one. Alright your next one is avoiding risk…

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   In your book. So let’s talk about that.

Paul Morris:                        Well I wonder, Rod, if this is a good spot for me to also tell you about the three rules that I use to invest in real estate?

Rod Khleif:   Absolutely. Bring it.

Paul Morris:                        Okay. Awesome, because in large part, when I talk to folks, I love to talk about this mindset stuff, but I also wanna give you actionable items or a way…

Rod Khleif:   That’s fantastic. That’s why my listeners like the podcast ‘cause we get great guests like you that can talk about how they actually did it. So please do that.

Paul Morris:                        Sure.


Paul Morris:                        In 25 years, I have invested in real estate and I’ve certainly gone through some up cycles and down cycles, including the last, really big one.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        And I’ve never lost a dollar on a real estate deal. I’ve done that, and people find that very impressive. Like, “Wow! That’s impressive.” As soon as I tell you the three disciplines, you’d be like, “Oh, of course, if you do it that way you’ll never lose money”, and yet people don’t do it. And that’s how they lose money.

I’m gonna share them with you, and the three are: number one is I only by where I know. My entire real estate portfolio is based entirely in Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. It’s where I used to live and where I now live.

Now lots of people make lots of money buying in other places other than where they know. We could talk about how to do that but that’s how I do it. So that’s one discipline.

Rod Khleif:   Okay. Okay.

Paul Morris:                        Another discipline is cash flow. The asset must cash flow. I will deviate from the asset cash flowing in one important way, and that is, if I’ve got a very simple plan it’s easily executable in a short period of time that will allow the property to cash flow. I could buy something that has a little bit of a negative cash flow, or a really low cash flow but I know I’m buying into the third rule and the third rule is add value.

Rod Khleif:   Those are three very, very good rules so you only buy an asset, you’re not gonna buy an asset that’s performing fantastically that hasn’t got any upside you want something you can add value to.

Paul Morris:                        Absolutely.

Rod Khleif:   I feel exactly the same way, and you’re talking about cash flow, I wrote a book as well, its subtitle is the New Rules of Real Estate Investing. The new rules being, “Forget value. Focus on cash flow.”

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   It’s a little painful for me because I have lost money. Big money…

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   In real estate. Your rules are fantastic. I just sent out a white paper recently, about the four markets you should consider if you’re buying. The first two are your backyard.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Number one. Number two, somewhere you grew up or know well. Number three is somewhere you have boots on the ground. And four is maybe somewhere you’d like to retire. But certainly…

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Your rule is much safer. If you know the area then you’re gonna know what the pitfalls are. You’re gonna know the crime statistics. You’re gonna know what’s happening in the economy, all these things that you could discover and learn, but it’s not the same as knowing.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Having been there, live there, grew up there. Love it. Love it.

Paul Morris:                        If I could mention also, just getting a tiny but deeper into the add value thing.

Rod Khleif:   Sure.

Paul Morris:                        Just to lay it out. I’ll be quick, ‘cause I assume you listeners are pretty sophisticated but what I do; my version of adding value. First of all, it addresses the risk avoidance thing. Because, what I believe is, when you buy value you’re actually buying a micro market inside of that property. When you have upside built-in, no matter what the market does, you still can harvest that upside.

I’ll tell you specifically what that looks like for me, and that is… Well, it’s a very old real estate adage and that’s just, “You by the worst house in the best neighborhood.”

Rod Khleif:   Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        I live in LA, does that mean you actually have to run out and try to find the worst house in Beverly Hills? No, you don’t. But a gentrifying neighborhood…

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        Is also a way to do it. I have a rule of thumb on the gentrifying neighborhood.

Rod Khleif:   I wanna hear that ‘cause we talked about that on the show all the time. I’ve seen, I talk about these areas in Denver that I could have bought whole blocks for 20,000 a piece, that are now for four or 500,000 a piece.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   I mean, that’s how crazy it’s gone on there. So please, I really wanna hear this.

Paul Morris:                        Okay, so one of those things… I wanna make sure we don’t fall into the trap of like the Bitcoin… Like, “Hey, somebody was telling me about Bitcoin and it was $300 and now it’s 3000.” Well the reason I did not buy at 300, I was afraid it was gonna go to 30.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        That’s why I didn’t buy. When I look at markets where, while I could have bought a house for 40 grand, and now it’s 400, why didn’t buy that house is because at the time I had no real idea whether it was gonna go to 80 or to 20. What I do with the gentrifying neighborhood is I wait until it’s about 25% gentrified. What that means to the purchaser, you put yourself in the purchaser shoes, is it feels like, to many people like, “Uh, I’ve already missed the boat.” Like, “I could have bought that house for 200 grand and it’s already 290 which is insane.” Okay, but I’m looking around I say, “There’s gonna be…

Rod Khleif:   It’s gonna go to five. [chuckles]

Paul Morris:                        “Hey, there’s a super cook restaurant going in… When I bought my own house in Santa Monica, and by the way, this is perfect again, for addressing risk avoidance. I bought my house at the precise worst moment in time. I bought it right before the market tanked.

Rod Khleif:   Wow.

Paul Morris:                        But because I was practicing the same things for investment in my own home, I bought a shack in Santa Monica that was sitting on the very apex of a hill that had a full-on ocean view, very unique. I paid to $2.2 million for it. Within six months it was worth 1.6, so if I have to sell that I’m crushed. Okay.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        But because it’s the worst house in the best neighborhood and because, literally 25%, maybe a little less, 20%; so one out of every five houses on my block was getting totally tricked out. I knew it was going in the right direction.

Now, the downturn in the market put the brakes on all of that. Some of the houses that were mid construction stopped, and foreclosed. There was, sad to say, there was a suicide…

Rod Khleif:   Oh, wow.

Paul Morris:                        It’s like this whole disaster. But I had the cash flow to sustain the house. That’s the second rule. I also did not count on a bank loan to improve it. So when I did the analysis, I said, “Okay, well I’m gonna put down a nice chunk of money.” I put down 40%, and I had the cash on the sidelines to improve it.

Now, I have to say again, putting yourself in my shoes… I ran around to a bunch of realtors. I’ve got a lot to realtor friends, I’m like, ”Am I crazy to put cash into this thing that just lost all its value?” And they all said, “You’re gonna live there, right?” I said, “Yes.” They said, “You’ll be fine.”

Now, the investors’ analogy to that would be, “Well you’re your intention is to hold this.” If your intention is to hold… You buy a value and…

Rod Khleif:   Value doesn’t matter really.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   I mean… Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah. If you buy… Or the market doesn’t matter. So you buy a value-add property, and if you’ve got 30- 40% upside built into it, and in the market… Generally, a market does, even a terrible market doesn’t crack more than about 20%. So if you got 20-30% inside that building, the market tanks the day after you buy it, you could still afford to harvest that out and you’re fine. Then what I ended up with, in the downturn of the market…

You read all the headlines, and people knew I was real estate. They’re like, “Are you okay? Are you okay?” And I’m like, “Of course, I’m okay. Why wouldn’t I be okay?” The majority of my assets are entry-level apartments in to the best neighborhoods in Los Angeles and in Pittsburgh.

Rod Khleif:   Okay.

Paul Morris:                       And so it’s on the sweet spot somewhere between 20% and then once you get a 50 60 70%…

Rod Khleif:   In a gentrifying neighborhood…

Paul Morris:                        Yeah, in a gentrifying neighborhood.

Rod:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        Maybe once you get 70%… Now, you just look at the block and you say, “Okay, well one out of every five is getting totally tricked out.” Now is the time to buy. The prices will have already started to increase but that’s good because if you go when your first guy gentrifying, it could take 10 years to turn…

Rod Khleif:   Or not turn. Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        Or not turn.

Rod Khleif:   Or not turn. And guys, when you’re looking at one of these neighborhoods, you’re gonna see scary people walking down the street sometimes, and you’re gonna see houses that are being completely remodeled.

I like your idea about waiting on a percentage level and almost to the point where you’re feeling like you might have missed the opportunity. Trust me, you haven’t. I just got a email, literally, from somebody yesterday, about an area in Denver, called the Highlands. I bought houses there in the 20s. He just told me he’s netting 300,000 from the house. He’s obviously selling it for a lot more than that. There you go, that’s another area. That wasn’t the area I was talking about earlier that where you could buy whole blocks for 20 but…

Yeah, gentrification is an incredible opportunity if you can find it.
Avoiding risk. I guess we touched on it. Did we finish on that topic?

Paul Morris:                        Sure. That’s how I avoid risks.

Rod Khleif:   Okay. Alright.

Paul Morris:                        We certainly know that we’re nearer to the top of the market than the bottom.

Rod Khleif:   Oh yeah.

Paul Morris:                        I am more careful. And that being said, in the last six weeks, I closed on a 24 unit building in Long Beach, which is an area that I’ve determined is gentrifying and it’s a great value add. It’s a dump of a 24 unit in an area that’s totally accelerating.

Rod Khleif:   Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. There are deals out there right now for sure. I just did a little YouTube video on, Should You Buy in 2017?

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   The whole barometer is cash flow. It really is. The bottom line is, if the cash flow is there you’ll be fine. If you’ve got enough of a cushion to weather a contraction, you’ll be fine, even if you’re not in a gentrifying area. As long as you’re not competing with other A properties, there’s a lot of over building going on in the A class right now. But if you’ve got affordable housing and you’ve got a decent debt service coverage ratio, you’re gonna be just fine.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   The next thing in your book here is, “Viewing wealth negatively”, and that’s one thing I haven’t talked about on the show. So I’m excited to hear your take on this.

Paul Morris:                        Okay. I talked about it a lot, and I’m glad you’re interested in it. I already think that your listeners have a pretty good leg up on it because they’re interested in the multi-family piece. I’ll say this, I’ll say it a couple of ways. Number one, I gave a keynote speech to UCLA MBA entrepreneurship program and the title of my speech was How to Succeed Without Hard Work or Sacrifice.

When I first told the dean that, they had a little cocktail hour, and the dean said, “What are your remarks today?” and I told him that. He belly laughs…

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        And looked at me and says, “Oh, you’re serious. Well this is gonna be interesting.” It’s really a mindset piece. For starters, we view wealth as freedom. We view wealth as power. We view wealth as energy. It certainly is energy.

I have a devout Christian nephew who’s devoting his life to service of others. A long time ago, ‘cause we’ve had this conversation, he said, “Well, hey, Uncle Paul money isn’t everything.” Like, “Well, who said it was everything? And I got to tell you, the goals that you have, which is to have a positive impact in the world are certainly much better served by you having wealth, than not having wealth.”

Rod Khleif:   You can certainly have a bigger reach.

Paul Morris:                        For sure, and then the hard work and sacrifice piece is just that if you do what you love, I don’t believe it’s hard work. That’s where we get another part of the book, is Build Life by Design.

When I was working in a law firm, you could pay me $7,000 an hour. I would go back at 7,000 an hour, would be for a few hours, it’s just that would be hard work for me. Now, analyzing property, and driving around in the car, I’m in my jeans and t-shirt, have a cup of coffee, and I talk to my best friend about which areas are great which aren’t, and how we gonna change the building… I’m sorry, for me that’s fun.

Rod Khleif:   That is a blast.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Guys, you’ve heard me say it a million times, if you don’t love this business try to associate pleasure with it whenever you’re learning it. I’ve said it before treat it like you’re hunting for buried treasure because you are.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   If you got it… If you don’t love it don’t do it. Seriously, life is too frigging short to not do what you love. You got me excited when you’re describing what you’re doing.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   Just relaxed, you got your cup of coffee; you’re checking out the property, you’re finding a phenomenal deal. It just gets my blood going to think along those…

Paul Morris:                        Yes. The parts of it that the people may not like, which is receiving the call in the middle of the night with the leaky roof, this is why people don’t invest in multi-family.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        And I’m gonna tell you, from the very beginning, I had no money and I had 12 units I did not take that call. I just think you…

Rod Khleif:   Thank you. Thank you. Now. I wanna clarify something because I’m a big proponent for self-management but I want to clarify what that means to Rod. Okay?

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   What that means to Rod is I have people that handle the management for me but they’re on my staff. I don’t hire a property management company. Now, for those of you listening, if you’re gonna take down a larger property, and it’s one of your first ones, I recommend hiring a property management company to learn the ropes.

In you’re case, you’ve got a lot of other interests, you don’t… I mean you could hire a property management company right out of the get-go. That may be your model but I don’t take calls from tenants. I haven’t taken a call from a tenant since I was 18, almost 40 years.

Paul Morris:                       That’s part of the mindset piece. Somebody was telling me about mobile home park, and there were all sorts of ways to buy in, blah blah blah. I talked to one of my wealthy partners about it. He said, “Oh, I have five relative that own that mobile home park. You know what? If you own a mobile home park, you’re now the mayor of a town in the middle of nowhere, where you don’t wanna be the mayor.

We have all these blocks so…

Rod Khleif:   Yeah, disagree completely by the way.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   We are actively looking at mobile home parks as well. It’s really you’ve got to set up a management infrastructure. Be it on-site or off-site. I’ve got it across my office here, I’ve got a full-time property managers, been with me a long time, had a management company forever. Either way, you could hire a property management company; you do not wanna take the leaky faucet calls. Maybe until you get 10 units.


Rod Khleif:   But even then, you don’t have to.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah, you absolutely don’t have to. And then the other piece is sacrifice. Sacrifices… My definition of sacrifice is giving up something vital in order to have something else. If we feel like we must sacrifice in order to have wealth, I can see why people choose not having wealth.

Just design it in a way, one of these that I do and I know you, like I said, I’ve watched enough for your stuff to know that we speak the same language. One of things I do is, I’ll do affirmations, and I’ll do goals, and at the end of a big giant crazy goal I just add, ‘with these’.

Rod Khleif:   I like it.

Paul Morris:                        So yeah. I’m gonna hit…

Rod Khleif:   I like that.

Paul Morris:                        The $100 million of net worth with these. It just takes the sacrifice piece right off the table. Now my brain is…

Rod Khleif:   I like that.

Paul Morris:                        Looking for ways to do this that don’t disrupt the way that I wanna live my life.

Rod Khleif:   I love that. I absolutely love that. That takes the pressure off. If the goal is still there, you’re still motivated. You’ve determined why that goal’s a must. But you took all the pressure off. Love that. Love that.

Another one of your chapters in the book is about giving up. I do wanna hear your take on that because so many people they get their nose bloodied, and they don’t have a compelling vision for the future, or they don’t have a strong enough why, and they give up. I’d love to hear your take on it.

Paul Morris:                        Well, one of the things that we talked a lot about in the book, and it almost gets to the point where it seems trite. Like get into action. The number one reason why people don’t get in the game is they’re afraid of making a mistake. They’re afraid of that fear of failure. And we know if you get in the game, the very worst thing that will happen is you learn a lesson.

Rod Khleif:   A seminar. I call them seminar. I’ve had some big ones. [laughter]

Paul Morris:                        Yes, yes, for sure. If you keep your eyes open, one of the things that’s in the book, we probably won’t have time to get into it, is building a business that builds wealth, there’s seven pillars that you follow. One of them is modeling. Modeling is you find… You say, “Hey, I have a multi-family business. I’ve got 24 units. I’d really like to get to 240 units.” One of the first things I do is run around and find people that have 240 units or more, and how do they do it?

Rod Khleif:   Exactly.

Paul Morris:                        What do they do?

Rod Khleif:   Exactly.

Paul Morris:                        And you’d be surprised because these people would love to chat with you about it. Maybe not in your backyard ‘cause they’ll feel like you’re a competitor, most likely they will but all you have to do is go to a different geography.

Rod Khleif:   Even in your own backyard.

Paul Morris:                        Even in your own backyard.

Rod Khleif:   Sometimes, I tell you, most people that are successful, they love giving back. It’s a basic human need to contribute to other people. It’s under used in some but I will tell you, if you ask from a good place, and you try to add value back, people will help.

Paul Morris:                        Sure. Sure.

Rod Khleif:   I couldn’t agree more. Model success, and success leaves clues. Find people that have done what you wanna do and model them. Couldn’t agree more.

Paul Morris:                        I’ll give you one script on it. Just ‘cause I love to give the little things that people can use.

Rod Khleif:   Awesome.

Paul Morris:                        What embodies that is, the script that I use, if there’s somebody I really wanna… I say, “Rod, I really looked at your podcast. You got a million-and-a-half downloads. The amount of time you have to have coffee with random people, it just seems too great.” But if I wanted to pick your brain on it, and it was in your area, I’d say, “Hey Rod, I’m gonna be in your hometown, here. What would it take to earn the right to sit down with coffee with you.”

Rod Khleif:   I love that. Love that.

Paul Morris:                        Every time I’ve asked it, it doesn’t matter, and I’ve asked billionaires that question. Almost always they’ll say yes, and almost always they’ll say, “Well, you’ve already earned the right”, or, “that’s okay.” Then I go the next step, I’ll do a little research about, okay, what do they really like. It doesn’t matter. If it’s Warren Buffett, it’s cherry coke. I’ve looked that up.

It can be a small thing but it shows you care in your listing. Then I’d be very purposeful in the meeting. I’d come and say, “Okay. Hey Rod, I know we only have 30 minutes so I thought really hard about this. I’ve got these seven questions and I can answer any questions you have for me. But here’s what I’ve got for you.” Just model it.

Rod Khleif:   Hey guys, if you didn’t catch that, what he just gave you was absolute gold. We will make sure it’s in the show notes for you. That phraseology was absolutely perfect. “How can I earn the right?” I mean that’s just brilliant. Then taking a few minutes to investigate the person you’re meeting with and show them that you really did check them out. Like you did Paul, with me, and it’s flattering. It just creates a relationship, instantly. It builds rapport instantly. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

We still got a little time, and I wanna go through a couple these other ones. You talk about holding on to toxic relationships.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   I know that all of us have those people. Sometimes, they are in our family even; that could hold us back. When we got a dream, those of you guys that are listening, and that wanna get into this business, and you’ve got a dream. It’s like a fragile thread. It’s so easy for that to get broken. I wanna hear your take on toxic relationships.

Paul Morris:                        Okay, so I’ll talk about that in two directions.

Rod Khleif:   Okay.

Paul Morris:                        One is, we can even talk about the positive direction, which we’ve touched on already. I’ll start by saying that I certainly have heard this elsewhere. That is, your net worth is the average of your five closest friends. So the answer to that, and I wanna increase my net worth, so I’m gonna add some billionaires to that circle. If it’s my top five, does that mean I have to kick off one or two, and what does that look like? Am I this crazy selfish person? These are things that go through people’s minds.

Rod Khleif:   Sure

Paul Morris:                        One of the things that I do is I make sure that I associate myself with people that are succeeding at a high level. I can go on and on about that. I heard it in a very, very funny way because I’m from Pittsburgh and LA, and I spend time in Texas. And somebody said, “If you’re in the barbershop long enough you’re gonna end up with a haircut.” I think, the first time I heard it…

Rod Khleif:   Love it.

Paul Morris:                        That’s like a Texas version. I try to figure how I’m gonna turn that into the Hollywood version. It’s like, “Okay, well, I don’t have any tattoos, and I don’t have anything against it but if you go on Sunset Strip and you spend all your time… If I spend all of my time at a tattoo parlor, I would end up with a tattoo.”

Rod Khleif:   You bet.

Paul Morris:                        Nothing wrong with it, but I’m just saying, it is who you spend your time with.

Rod Khleif:   So back to the thing you were just saying about that your fear of leaving people behind, what’s your take on that?

Paul Morris:                        Okay, like I said before on a goal with ease… And I used to drag a lot of negative people around me. I enjoyed, it did something for me to fix the problems.

Rod Khleif:   Trying to bring them up.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah, it gave me validation. You can call that, “Hey, well he’s just a nice guy.”… I’m not giving away my charitable side at all. I’m just creating more awareness. So I had the one friend from my hometown that would call me and just dump all of his garbage in my yard. Just, “Hey Paul,” and then I was like, “Wait a minute, he says hey Paul, how are you?” It’s just the more I get aware of it… He calls me, “Hey Paul, how are you?” but then he doesn’t even really wait for the answer. Then I’m like, “Whoa… “ It’s like all the garbage comes out.

Now, I’ve known this guy for 40 years, so do I cut him out of my life completely? My answer to that is no. No, I don’t cut him out of my life completely but I have awareness. And this is not what I have, that free time and I have that energy time, and I have that growth time. I’m not spending… When I have a great idea, I have a great idea. That’s not the guy you share it with.

Rod Khleif:   That’s not the guy. For me, it’s my mom. I have a great idea, “Oh, yes, that sounds risky. That’s scary.” I totally agree. Of course you can’t divorce yourself from them. You love them. You support them but you don’t allow them to influence you. Right?

Paul Morris:                        Sure.

Rod Khleif:   Okay.

Paul Morris:                        And they influence you in that way. When you talk about your mom, I totally get that. I can tell you for sure, your mom does not want you to take that risk, not to keep you small. She wants you to not take that risk, because she wants to protect you.

Rod Khleif:   Of course, of course, and that could be the same for your group of friends. They will hold on to you and they can prevent your growth if you allow them to. But they’re not coming at you from a negative place, they’re bringing their own bag of fears and that’s what’s driving it and their love of you. They’re afraid of loss. They’re afraid of losing you, but the fact of the matter remains, you are the five people you hang around with, the most, that you allow to influence you. So there you go.

Paul Morris:                        We know that when it’s… That very apparent to us when we want our kids to have the right friends, and the right friends is not just really the nice friend, that’s great. But you want them to have the friend that’s doing something with their life. ‘Cause if your son or daughter has their five closest friends are super nice but they’re not going anywhere, well that’s not what we’re gonna pick for them as a parent. So why would we pick that for ourselves?

For sure, no matter whether it’s well-intentioned or not, I believe that if you hang out with five people that are not on a wealth-building journey, or not on a personal growth journey, doesn’t even have to be wealth building.

Rod Khleif:   Right. Right.

Paul Morris:                        I mean one of my closest friends…

Rod Khleif:   They have to want more…

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   It doesn’t have to be money. It could be self-awareness.

Paul Morris:                        Sure.

Rod Khleif:   It could be health. It could be any self-improvement.

Paul Morris:                        Sure. And you know what? You bring a great one up. When I teach this live, I sort of draw an analogy to health, and I used to make the joke where, and it’s actually true. When I go on a diet, my girlfriend loses weight. Everybody laughs. She’s way more fit than me anyway but that’s actually true, and the reason why is because my influence is… I come home on had a hard day. I wanna chill. I wanna call my favorite Chinese takeout. That’s food’s amazing. It’s deep fried sugar coated beef. It’s like candy.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        And she’ll eat it. I get it. She’ll eat it. Then as soon as I go on diet like, “Okay we’re not calling the Chinese take out anymore.” She’s like, “Okay, well I was never calling it to begin with.” And then we don’t and then we’re eating what she would eat and it’s all healthy food. So she loses weight when I go on a diet. That’s really a perfect… I mean that really encapsulated, for me…

When you hang out with very successful people, and here’s one of the tricks, it’s a little thing you could do, is just listen. You hang out with a really successful person, just listen. They will talk about setbacks, maybe but if they talk about setbacks, it’s about what they did to deal with the setback, and how they moved through it. When you talk to people that haven’t gotten where they wanna get in their life, they’re gonna talk about setbacks. Like, “Oh, here are all the reasons why I couldn’t do it.” And they’re in to…

Rod Khleif:   And they justify them. They’re in for justifications. You’re absolutely right. Scale up, play up, play above your pay grade because that’s that will pull you into that pay grade.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   I remember when I first got my real estate… I got my real estate license when I was 18, by the way. Made the paper and everything, broker’s license.

Paul Morris:                        Wow.

Rod Khleif:   Yeah, because you could do it through your education back then in Denver. But I didn’t make any money. Then I met this guy, and he drove a Corvette and he was just so cool. I just love what he was doing. And of course I manifested the car. But the point of the matter is, he pulled me up. Then the next guy in my journey pulled me up. And just by being around these people, they will pull you up.

So, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so I also wanna talk about victimizing yourself. That’s another point in your book. Can you chat about that for a moment?

Paul Morris:                        Sure. I transition a lot of my thinking actually… I was doing a lot of yoga. My girlfriend, one of her side things is being a yoga instructor. I got a lot of great influence that way. One of the funny things is that they teach you in yoga class, the yoga teacher will teach you not to judge. Don’t judge, okay? And then, what do you do if you catch yourself judging? Do you judge yourself for judging? Right.

Rod Khleif:   [laughter] That’s a loop.

Paul Morris:                        That’s right. That they couldn’t get. My 12 year old got me on that because I was trying to teach her about…

Rod Khleif:   That’s awesome, she’s brilliant, that’s awesome.

Paul Morris:                        That it’s not so important to be right and then she was like, “Well aren’t you really trying to be right and teaching me how to…” I’m like, “Okay…”

Rod Khleif:   Oh, boy.

Paul Morris:                        So I have a solution for that and the solution is, rather than judge, notice. So if you take away… The way to take away the judgment is go, “I’m noticing, that I’m judging.” Then there’s also a piece on the book where, first thought second thought. It’s about dealing with these negative thoughts. If you have any… Victimizing yourself would be any negative self-chatter that you have. It’s just poison. It really is.

One of the things that I did with… I challenged…

Rod Khleif:   Can I stop you there for one second ‘cause I really wanna hammer that home.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   You guys, you really need to pay attention to yourself talk. In fact, I’m pretty sure we’re going to air this episode with the driving force clip I just did on the power of words. It ties right into what we’re talking about here. Your words are so powerful but you have to be aware of them. You have to consciously think, what am I saying to myself regularly, think about it.

Anyway, I just wanted to hammer that home for a second.

Paul Morris:                        Absolutely, and I’ve also watched pieces of your video, I watched your video where you talked about the most powerful words are… the most powerful statements is, I am.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        And my work comes after that.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        I’m not a big meditator, I just I have a hard time sitting still. My girlfriend taught me a mantra, and it was Sanskrit for, “I am that”. I am that meaning I am the power. I am the Creator. And that was the whole thing. It goes thousands of years back the I am…

Rod Khleif:   Love it.

Paul Morris:                        And then whatever happens. And you can say to yourself, I used to do it. I being ADD I leave things in different places. I could leave a computer.


Paul Morris:                        I’ve left a couple of Rolexes places. You don’t wanna be in my brain the moment I realize, “Oh, I had a layover in Miami to go to the Bahamas, I left my Rolex.” … Let’s be honest, right? What’s going through my brain? The first thing, no matter how much I’ve trained myself to that point, is like, “You are an idiot.”

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        “How can you do… You don’t deserve a Rolex. That’s why.” All that is right.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:                        Sometimes we cannot prevent the flood of negative that comes into our brain, but that’s the first thought. And it’s really an Alcoholics Anonymous thing and that is the second thought. So it’ll be the first thought is you run into some trouble and you be like, “Oh, I wanna drink “, and they say, “Hey, don’t beat yourself up for that. That’s natural.”

But then what’s next is second thought, and that you have control over. The second thought I would say is just, notice, you go, “Wow, I’m noticing that I am so angry with myself that I’m saying all these bad things.” Then as soon as you do that, then you can start moving into… Well I would move into action. I’m like, “How do I get the Rolex back.”

Rod Khleif:   Of course.

Paul Morris:                        And that, by the way, was unsuccessful.

Rod Khleif:   Oh no, geez… Ouch.

Paul Morris:                        That’s okay.

Rod Khleif:   I wanna hammer that point home as well, ‘cause guys, if you just noticed like he just described, awareness is the first step. That’s probably the most important step, and that makes you aware. And if you get in the habit of being aware you can start mitigating. The only way to start mitigating is to be aware. I just wanna hammer that home. Just that noticing is such an important piece. That’s a great way to position it.

Paul Morris:                        Yes. When you talked about, we have at least one mutual friend in common that’s Pat Hiban.

Rod Khleif:   Oh, yeah.

Paul Morris:                        Pat Hiban is very good friends with my co-author David Osborne. I was spending time with them, and those two are like brothers. They’ve been friends for so long, and I’m the youngest of five. I’m good at it too, and they’ll chip at each other. Like two brothers teasing each other about stuff, to the degree like so… The harder you can do it to the next guy; it’s almost like an intelligence. It’s like a comic intelligence, and I get that.

I would engage in it myself but as an outsider and watching that, I said to David like, “I watch you and Pat. Like you guys tear each other apart. I wonder… If it’s fun and it’s not harmful go for it. I’m not judging. I’m just saying do you think it’s useful?” And then he’s like, “Huh.” Then they went on a long car ride or hike or whatever. I think they talked about it for a couple of hours. It’s just the awareness.

Rod Khleif:   Wow. Wow.

Paul Morris:                        It doesn’t have to be a rule. But again, the victimizing yourself… One thing that I’ve really watched is people who… Again, it’s sort of an adage like, hurt people, hurt people. We know that, and that doesn’t, in my mind, give you an excuse to hurt people. But I will tell you, generally, what I find honestly is, I have an ability now, at 52 to be very light with people.

Somebody does me wrong, I can brush it off easily. When somebody cuts in front of me in the car I go, “That’s okay”. The gateway for me to be able to be light with other people is to be light with myself. And I know that people who are mean, and tough are mean and tough with themselves.

Rod Khleif:   Oh, wow, huge. What you just said is huge. I couldn’t agree more.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   Now, that’s very insightful.

Paul Morris:                        If you wanna be lighter with your kids, and you wanna be lighter with your family, you wanna be lighter with your friends, you wanna lose your temper less… You are angry. Trust me, I don’t care what… You have a wonderful friend that does some awful thing to you and you’re furious. You are angry with yourself. It just is.

Rod Khleif:   Yeah.Yeah.

Paul Morris:                        If you look at that and you go, “Why am I so angry about this thing?” You choose what you’re angry about too.

Rod Khleif:   And pay attention to the words that you use.

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   In fact, that’ll probably be in the episode that airs with this one. That is, there’s a big difference between, “I’m furious”, and “I’m peeved or I’m annoyed,”

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Big diff, it’s a total different world in the phraseology you used to describe how you feel. Very, very important as well.

Paul Morris:                        Thank you. Hey, Rod, thank you for saying that. Because there’s one other sort of tip I can give that I would just love to give to your listeners. I almost forgot, and when you just said that, it reminded me. And that is, I replace a word, and whatever bad choice it was, or whatever bad action a friend does to me, or whatever thing I did, whatever decision I did but it was the dumbest decision, all you have to do is use the word interesting.

Rod Khleif:   Interesting.

Paul Morris:                        Interesting.

Rod Khleif:   That was interesting. That was an interesting experience.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah.

Rod Khleif:   And I’ve talked to people that talked about 2008 and they were destroyed. Just say, “Okay, that was interesting.” Love it. Love it.

Paul Morris:                        That was interesting. The fun thing about it is, it’s always true. One of the things, I have a hard time saying… I have a hard time lying to myself. If I’m super nervous about something, one of the things I do is I say I’m not nervous. It actually helps, it really does. But I try to stay away from that and move toward things like replacing with interesting.

Interesting is always true. It always resonates with me, so no matter how bad the decision was that I made, when I look back, that’s an interesting decision. No matter how bad the injustice somebody does to you, wow, that’s an interesting choice.

Rod Khleif:   It totally diffuses. It totally, yeah, it takes all the negative energy out of it. I love it.

The last one that I wanna have you chat with briefly, ‘cause we’re running low on time here, is thinking you know it all. Can you just expand on that piece… ?

Paul Morris:                        Yes.

Rod Khleif:   Of the wealth strategies.

Paul Morris:                        There’s so much to it. I could explain it in so many different ways. Sam Freshman is a friend of mine, he’s a huge real estate syndicator in LA. He’s 83 years old, we’re talking about writing a book together.

Rod Khleif:   Cool.

Paul Morris:                        When he was out of the office, young folks, younger than me, way younger than him said, “Sam comes in the office everyday like it’s his first day in school.” That energy, I was like, “Wow.” ‘Cause I’ve already been thinking about this a lot and when I did yoga… You go and they have little things on the wall. One of the eight pillars of yoga and I don’t remember any one but this one. I don’t think is… Have a beginner… Come to class with a beginners mind.

That means, well I look at that and I go, “Well I’m a beginner, that’s easy to do.” But if you’ve been doing it for 20 years everyday and you’re an expert, come to the class with a beginner’s mind, and what that allows this further growth. And growing is… It’s a self-awareness thing. One step is allowing yourself not to know everything. You can learn something from everyone.

Rod Khleif:   Everyone.

Paul Morris:                        Yes, and almost… It ties into it but it goes back to the thing when we were talking about modeling and asking somebody for help that you think wouldn’t wanna help. Maybe. And you said you find that people really do wanna contribute. One of the things that’s really, it’s sort of weird and cool, is that giving and receiving are simultaneous.

Therefore, it’s impossible for me, to my intention, is to give great value to your listeners and to people watching this podcast.

Rod Khleif:   And you have.

Paul Morris:                        Yeah. I just know that whatever else it is, and you asked me was there anything, which is a great thing, it was almost like, how I earn the right. You said to me what can we contribute to you today, and I had to think for a minute because I came on with the intention I’m gonna give to everybody, I know I’m getting back.

Rod Khleif:   Right.

Paul Morris:            Even if it’s not the, “Oh well, somebody will hear this, and I’ll come up with some great deal, or the unintended consequences which are always good. Just giving alone is receiving.

Rod Khleif:   Love it. Love it. Thank you. Incredible insights, Paul. You’ve added a tremendous amount of value. If you guys are interested in his book, it’s on Amazon. You’ve also got a website for it as well, correct?

Paul Morris:                        Yes, that’s correct. So the book is Wealth Can’t Wait, my co-author is David Osborne and Paul Morris. I’m Paul Morris. We have a website, wealthcantwait. And also, you can find me at Morris, which is my last name, morrisx.com. You could email me, paul@morrisx or just go to morrisx, and you’ll see more about links. I’ll put a link to this podcast.

Rod Khleif:   Awesome.

Paul Morris:                        And we’ll get you some more traffic, for sure.

Rod Khleif:   Awesome. Well, thank you and thank you for the tremendous value you’ve added. I’ve really enjoyed this a lot and let’s stay in touch, my friend.

Paul Morris:                        Yes. And I can tell you I’ve done a bunch of these and this has been really at the very top. I had a feeling it would be from watching you and it’s really been that more, I really appreciate it. Your listeners are lucky to have you, and it’ll go to 15 million from 1.5.

Rod Khleif:   [chuckles] That’s very kind of you. Thank you, buddy. Alright, take care.

Paul Morris:                        Okay. Thank you. Bye bye.


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