Ep #121 – Andrew and Mark Campbell have purchased 72 multifamily units in Texas valued at $6mm in 4 years while working full time. They are in the process of selling their single family portfolio to concentrate exclusively on multifamily.
Here’s some of what you will learn:
- Commercial financing.
- Exploring syndication.
- Experimenting with self managing.
- How long of a balloon you should agree to right now.
- Why and when you should start your own management company.
- What is “the sweet spot” number of units in multifamily right now?
- The value of having mentors.
- How to take action.
- How developing relationships can make all the difference.
- Having confidence to stretch your comfort zone every day.
- Build your competence to build your confidence which builds your intuition.
- The benefits of multifamily investing.
- Book recommendation: “Rich Dad Poor Dad: What The Rich Teach Their Kids About Money That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!” by Robert Kiyosaki
- Book recommendation: “The Millionaire Real Estate Investor” by Gary Keller
- Learn more https://www.wildhorncap.com/
- Connect with me on Facebook at Rod Khleif.
- Text Rod to 41411 or visit RodKhleif.com for a FREE copy of my book, “How to Create Lifetime Cash Flow Through Multifamily Properties.”
Full Transcript Below:
Ep #121 – Andrew and Mark Campbell have purchased 72 multi-family units in Texas
Welcome. This is the Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing Podcast. This is where you’ll learn strategies to help you achieve lifetime financial freedom through real estate investment. Your host, Rod Khleif, has owned over 2,000 homes and apartments. And he brings experts in all aspects of real estate investment and management on to the show. Now, here’s your host, Rod Khleif.
Rod Khleif: I have a couple of house keeping thing for you guys. If you haven’t heard we are now at 1.2 million downloads for this podcast. I’m so grateful for you guys listening and the positive feedback that we get from you.
Over the last year, I’ve spoken with or communicated with literally almost a thousand of you, and it has been awesome. Now lots of you’ve asked me for coaching and mentoring, or to create a course or some training materials. I had no plans to do that when I started this podcast. But finally after so many of you asked, I finally decided to go ahead and do it.
I will tell you I’m close to launching an incredible course and coaching program. I wanna help you guys crush it in this business and build life time cash flow quickly. So if you want to get information on this, text the word CRUSH, to 41411and we’d be sure to send you information when it becomes available.
If any of you have read my book, you’d realize I don’t do things halfway. So when I tell you that it’s awesome, it really is awesome. Excited to get that out. Also I wanna mention the book is still free. I’m finalizing it at Amazon. I was waiting for some testimonials from some other luminaries in the real estate space, and I’ve got them. I’m just putting the finishing touches on it.
Every review I’ve gotten for that book has been great. If you haven’t gotten your free copy, make sure you do that, text Rod to 41411, or go to RodKhleif.com. All right let’s get to it.
Rod Khleif: Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled you’re here. I know you’re gonna get a ton of value from the gentleman we’re interviewing today. His name is Andrew Campbell.
He and his brother Mark own 72 units in San Antonio and Austin, Texas. Over $6 million portfolio, they’ve done it in a fairly short period of time, and they’ve done it while they both kept their jobs. Which I know is gonna resonate with a lot of you guys, full-time corporate jobs. Thanks for being on the show Andrew.
Andrew Campbell: Thanks, Rod. Thanks for having me here. I’m looking forward to our conversation.
Rod Khleif: Absolutely. Please expand on my introduction, my very limited introduction. Please talk about how you got into real estate? Why you got in to real estate? Then we’ll dig in to some of your deals.
Andrew Campbell: Sure. Sure. We did not grow up in a real estate household, didn’t have any realtors or investors. It was just always sort of a curiosity for us. I’d be the kid that would pick up the flyer, when we’re on vacation, about the different houses and looking at how much things were worth. So always interested in it but I hadn’t taken action on being an investor, really understanding what it meant to be an investor, we were just living our life.
I was 27 years old, and had a corporate job like you mentioned. I was living out of state. I got a phone call that my dad had a major stroke and a brain hemorrhage. I moved home and he ended up being in the hospital for several months.
It was a critical point in my life, and in my brother’s life where we’re kind of questioning what we were doing, and not having the flexibility. I ultimately had to quit my job, and move home. And realizing, that maybe the corporate path isn’t something that we wanna do. We needed to create some flexibility, both time and resource wise so that we can tackle the challenge that life throws at us.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: We talked about investing and dabbled in it. I had a condo that I was living in. I’ve gotten married and we kept the condo and sort of accidental land-lorded that for a while. Then a couple of years later, in 2011, our mom was diagnosed with cancer and ultimately lost her battle.
I think that was for us like the straw that broke the camel’s back. Really gave us the purpose and the mission that, “Hey, this is something… that this real estate investing is the vehicle for us.” It’s gonna give us the ultimate flexibility to help us take care of our dad, take care of our families and have the time in order to do the things that we wanna do in life.
That was when we got really serious about investing, and I think, took it as a challenge, and as a viable career path that something, “Hey, we’re gonna attack this in full, head on.”
Rod Khleif: Right. It was both those tragedies that caused you to push forward. You did it so you’d have more freedom and you’d have more financial resources so that you’d be able to provide for your family, that’s the reason?
Andrew Campbell: Yeah. It was looking at not wanting to necessarily follow his path. Our dad was a really successful businessman but had normal business man hours, and realizing if we need the time… Wanting the time and flexibility to do the things we wanted to do or needed to do, and something came up like this again. To be able to not sweat taking several months off, or having that passive income to handle whatever life would throw at us.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well that’s quite an intro there. Let’s get into real estate. When did you…
Andrew Campbell: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Let me tell you, the reason that I’m a little reeling myself is, my brother had a heart attack yesterday, and I wanna share this with everybody listening, actually, because there’s a message here.
He doesn’t like doctors. He hadn’t seen one in 15 years. He has his local REA meeting and has indigestion. Just has heartburn, and so he goes next door to the store and buys Tums and they didn’t do any good. And he’s sitting in his car, and he just didn’t feel right. He got tingling in his arms. It wasn’t painful but it was tingling and he just didn’t feel right. Then he started sweating real bad.
Luckily, there’s an urgent care place a block away, and he drove there and he walked in. Within five minutes, they had him in an ambulance to the hospital. Luckily, I literally, work five minutes from that hospital. So I was able to go there, and see him go into surgery. It was just really pretty traumatic.
His wife, they’ve been married for 40 years. They met when they were 15. They’ve a massive love story, incredible love story. It was really tough while he was in surgery. But because he didn’t ignore his symptoms, within an hour and a half… He had called me at 2:06, and I was actually on a podcast interview when he called. And of course, I turn everything off when I’m doing an interview, so he couldn’t reach me. ‘Cause even before he went to the urgent care, he tried to call me.
Then they interrupted me, and I went to the hospital. I was able to see him before he went into surgery. But thank be the Lord, or whatever you believe in. He got two stints put in and he’s gonna be okay. But the message here and the reason I’ve spent too much time on this is, guys, we are all high achievers. We are all pushing hard. We all have stress. If you have symptoms, don’t back away from them. Don’t ignore them, or just suck it up, or just assume it’s gas, or indigestion, or whatever.
Go get checked. Because if he hadn’t had gotten checked, he might not be with us today. The doctor said he did everything right. Anyway, I wanted to interject that. Hopefully, add value to you guys listening, because it’s just so important not to ignore that stuff.
Andrew Campbell: Well I think that’s great. I’m glad to hear he’s gonna be alright.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, thank you.
Andrew Campbell: That’s scary.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, thank you. It was scary. I mean, he’s actually still there now. He’s doing much better. They’re gonna move him to a regular room. It’s only two people allowed in the ICU. He’s got his direct family there right now. I’ll be heading back over there after the interview but very scary. So guys, don’t ignore the symptoms, I guess, is my point. Get checked out if you need to get checked out.
But anyway, shake that stuff off and let’s talk about real estate. So tell us about…
Andrew Campbell: Get to the good stuff.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Let’s get to the good stuff. Tell us about your first deal.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah. I qualify our first deal as the first intentional investments that we made. I mentioned I had a condo that we were kind of accidental land-lording.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: We just kept it when we got married. So after my mom passed, we realize like this is, if we’re gonna do this thing for real… My brother had a house that he had, moved out of state and had also been accidental land-lording. We sold his house and my condo.
That was our first investment properties. We used the capital from those two to buy. We had a little bit different strategies. He bought five foreclosed homes in a suburb just south of Austin, single-family. And I bought…
Rod Khleif: When was this? I’m sorry if you said it already.
Andrew Campbell: It was all about 2012.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Okay. Got it.
Andrew Campbell: He bought, probably, average like $130,000, something like that. That I think were the average price of his. My wife and I bought, a four-plex and a duplex within the same month, much closer into town in Austin.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Do you still have the houses? Or is your portfolio all multi-family?
Andrew Campbell: We still have the houses. There’s about of the 72 units, about a dozen of them are single-family.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Andrew Campbell: I think they’re looking at probably selling those this year. I think we’ve migrated completely in the mindset, and every other way towards multi-family. He has seen some really good run on appreciation on the houses. But today, we still have them.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. No, perfect. Perfect time to sell those houses, actually. That’s great. Let me ask you this, your ‘plexes’ that you’re buying, how did you finance them?
Andrew Campbell: It’s all been traditional personal financing. I think one of the benefits of us being working, and having our jobs. It’s been easier to get traditional financing. We get the 30-year fixed loans and that’s obviously helps us with the cash flow. So that’s…
[00:10:00]
Andrew Campbell: That’s to date, been the path we’ve taken.
Rod Khleif: So primarily, Fannie Mae financing then.
Andrew Campbell: Correct. Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Andrew Campbell: We’re now at that inflection point that we’ve maxed out on the loans we can get. So we’ve got to change strategy.
Rod Khleif: See, what a perfect framework, for you guys listening. They’re up to 72 units. I don’t know how many of them are ‘plexes’ but… How many are ‘plexes’? Let’s ask the question.
Andrew Campbell: Other than the 12, I guess we’ve got, 60 doors, spread across, four-plexes and duplexes. I’m not sure what the exact count on each type is.
Rod Khleif: And I think the limit on Fannie Mae, it’s either 10 or 12 per person. Is that, do you know, off the top of you’re head?
Andrew Campbell: Yeah, 10 is the number we’ve been given and worked really hard to get to.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Okay.
Andrew Campbell: I think a lot of people will stop, a lot of brokers’ gonna stop at three or four, and can’t seem to get you over the hump. But if you keep hunting around you’ll find somebody that is able to get you all the way to the to the 10.
Rod Khleif: Wow. Fantastic. You’re right. This is an inflection point because you’re not gonna be able to get that fantastic residential financing, any longer, but, what a great opportunity for you to go larger. I mean you understand the business now, if you go to five units, and you can get commercial financing.
Well you can get commercial financing, I guess, on your residential as well if you put a couple of them together but this is a good pivot point. I assume you’re looking at larger things now, or I shouldn’t assume. But I guess that you are?
Andrew Campbell: No, you’re absolutely right. I think that’s been our mindset, we’ve taken this as far as we can. We kinda maximized those great 30-year fixed rate.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: Now, we’re looking at commercial financing so we could do four units, an eight unit or an 80 unit. Our mindset is let’s go look at new 80 units, 150 units and somehow we can get those done. Raise money, and take everything we’ve learned and go that route.
Rod Khleif: Right. I know you’re exploring syndication now and your website is wildhorncap.com.
Andrew Campbell: That’s right.
Rod Khleif: Capital entity to raise money for syndications, that’s fantastic. Those of you listening, I’ll say this to you as well, Andrew. I’m on commercial financing right now, I would, because we’re headed for a contraction, there’s no question it’s coming, doesn’t mean to stop looking or stop buying. I’m actively buying right now.
But I’d be careful on how long of a balloon you agree to. I wouldn’t recommend doing a five-year balloon right now. I would do seven or 10 years because there’s nothing worse than having a property that’s cash flowing but because the cap rates have gone up, because of a market crash, your values aren’t there to be able to refinance if you’re at the bottom of a cycle when your balloon comes due. Just a word of advice on the commercial financing, but you sound like you guys have really moved forward.
Let me back up, are you managing these properties yourself? Or do you have a management company handling them. Since you’re working full-time, how are you handling that?
Andrew Campbell: It’s about a 50-50 split. A couple of years ago, we started out self-managing. We decided to experiment with some property managers. Number one, we wanted to see how much did we
like giving up the control, or how much didn’t we like it.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: And what was that experience like and we’re trying out a couple of different property managers to see their styles, and how they communicate. We’re contemplating starting a management company particularly, as we grow a syndication business.
Rod Khleif: Sure.
Andrew Campbell: And just went on using that as a way to the leverage and see how they do business and do we like how they do business.
Rod Khleif: Oh, very smart. Very smart, and I highly recommend starting your own management company. I’ve had one for decades. They’re just a lot of reasons why it works very, very well.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Now, that said, I’ve had people on the show that swear by outside management. I’m a big proponent of self-management. I mean when I say self-management, have your own management company.
Andrew Campbell: Right.
Rod Khleif: ‘Cause I’ve just found in my personal experience that I’ve had to manage the management companies. But that said, if you get in to the larger properties, there are some extra ordinarily good property management companies out there that can add a lot of value to you. Not just in the management process, but helping you find deals. Helping you with the due diligence on a larger property and things of that nature.
But in the smaller, I think you’re gonna find or maybe already finding out that the management companies will handle duplexes and four-plexes, they’re fairly, what’s the word? I wouldn’t say unsophisticated but they’re just not as sophisticated, I guess is the word, as some of the larger companies that really handle big, big properties. If you get a good person that is running a smaller management company, you can have a decent experience.
But anyway, what markets are you looking in now, may I ask?
Andrew Campbell: Yeah, we continue… We grew up in Austin. We feel pretty fortunate the way this city has blossomed… To be located here, so we still look in Austin. Everything we bought recently, in the last two years, has been in San Antonio but we are looking in Austin, San Antonio, Dallas and Houston, I think, anything that’s in Texas. It makes sense for us, but that’s kind of our geographic boundaries.
Rod Khleif: Sure. Sure. I think that, as hot as the market is right now, you probably have better luck in some of the second-tier cities around those large cities. I will say this, if you guys haven’t heard me say this on the podcast before, I really believe that there’s a sweet spot in the smaller properties right now, even as low as 30- 40 units.
There’s some real opportunities because those properties are owned by Mom and Pops, and those are opportunities for seller financing; those aren’t getting hit as hard by the big players that are fighting over the larger properties right now. But if you can find a great deal on a larger property, the interest rates are fantastic. There’s still a lot of opportunity out there.
Just pay attention to cash flow. I get people sending me deals all the time, and they tell me, ”Yeah, well this deal sold for X million so many years ago, and we can get it for this.” And I come back with, “It doesn’t matter. What’s the NOI? What’s your debt service coverage ratio?” That’s what really matters
Andrew Campbell: I think that’s something that we started out, relatively unsophisticated, right? Starting not totally knowing what we’re doing. But it was, this is a passive income play for us. It has to cash flow, and didn’t know about that necessary ratios and how much expense money to set aside.
But we knew what the rents were gonna be, and we knew what we were paying for, and what our payment’s gonna be.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: So it’s always been for us, if it doesn’t cash flow, we’re not interested in it. Even today, particularly in Austin, there’s so many people buying.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: Betting on appreciation. And that’s just not a game that we ever played. It’s hard to stay disciplined when you’re in a market that’s blowing up like this. You see what people are paying but it’s cash flow… I agree with what you say, it’s got to cash flow. It’s not a business.
Rod Khleif: No, it’s not. Particularly with the fact, that real estate goes through cycles, and we’re at the top of one. So you do not wanna do any value plays right now. Trust me. It’s all based on cash flow.
Let me ask you this, did you have any mentors? I mean, you guys started with the smaller stuff, which is a lot less intimidating. But have you had mentors or training, or anything that you could suggest to someone about how you learned the business? Or did you guys just go out there and do it?
Andrew Campbell: No. We absolutely did. I think one of my favorite things about the business is that it’s a community of people that really want to help other people and share what they’ve learned. When we got into it and got serious about it, we had a friend who’s a realtor who had, I don’t know, five or six duplexes, ___ [00:17:39]
Really kind of talk us through it, what we should be looking for, actually helped us buy the first couple of deals. Really, we drafted off of his team and his playbook. He taught us everything he knows. We joke that when we bought our first property, he says to me that, “Watch out. Investing in real estate is like crack and you’ll get addicted.”
Rod Khleif: [laughs]
Andrew Campbell: I talk to him all the time, I say, “This whole thing is your fault. I was heading down a path. I was doing advertising and loving it, you just got me addicted to real estate now.” So we partnered with him, and learned the business from him, and then as we’ve grown into this syndication business, learning from folks that had been doing that. Actively partnering with them on as we can look at and buy bigger deals.
Rod Khleif: Oh, now, that’s very smart. Super. Let me ask you this, any books that you like to gift to people about this business or about business in general?
Andrew Campbell: Yeah, the standard ones, Ron. I think when we were going through everything with out dad, we read Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Rod Khleif: Sure.
Andrew Campbell: Just the like fundamental shift in the way you think and look at the world that I think it’s a good book that always… I actually went to lunch today with a guy who’s interested in real estate. That just changes your mindset. So I’d always recommend that one. I think that The Millionaire Real Estate Investor, and Gary Keller’s book was probably the first tactical book that made sense to me and I recommend that one a lot. Those are the two.
Rod Khleif: Awesome.
Andrew Campbell: And I know you hear those all the time. But they’re famous for a reason, I think.
Rod Khleif: Oh, no question. And Gary Keller’s, The One Thing is or That One Thing, or I’m not sure about the title, that’s also a fantastic book.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: I’ve been trying forever to get him on the show. He’d be a great interview. Let’s see, let me ask you this question. This is one I like to ask, and you may or may not know, I do these little five to 10 minute weekly clips called Your Driving For Success Tips. We talk about the psychology of success, ‘cause 80% of your success in anything really is your mindset and your psychology. What’s driving you now? Is it… I guess we did kinda talk about it, it’s the freedom. What makes you jump out of bed in the morning?
Andrew Campbell: When we started out, it was the freedom. It was wanting passive income, and flexibility. Now, what drives me is seeing how far we can take this thing that we’ve… Back to the, it being crack, we’re addicted. We love the business. We understand it.
[00:20:00]
Andrew Campbell: And it’s something that we can do together and build new as a team. Build a company. I think that’s what’s getting us out of bed right now.
Rod Khleif: Right. It’s exciting.
Andrew Campbell: We’re gonna ___ [00:20:10] earned capital into a business and that’s awesome. We’re trading one job for another but it’s something that is, we’re very passionate about.
Rod Khleif: Well, if you love what you do, work is play. And that’s what I always say, “Make sure if you’re gonna do this, you associate pleasure with it.” I equate it to hunting for treasure. And it really is. It’s just so much fun. Especially when you’re doing more than one deal. The wheels are turning and there’s lots of deals coming across your desk. You’re out there mixing it up, looking at deals. It’s just… For me, it’s definitely like crack cocaine, whatever that feels like.
Andrew Campbell: [chuckles] Yeah, Rod, you’re right.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Let me ask you this, what would you tell somebody that’s listening right now, thinking about getting into real estate, maybe has a little fear, what advice would you give them, if you went and had lunch with them?
Andrew Campbell: Yeah. Number one, I will say partner. Find somebody, myself or somebody in your local area that does this, go on Bigger Pockets, there’s great resources there.
Rod Khleif: Sure.
Andrew Campbell: But find a partner, or a mentor. The second thing is just take that action. If you buy right, you can make a ton of mistakes, and still be okay. And back to making sure that it’s going to cash flow but you can survive some vacancy, you can survive some bad rehabs. Like there are things that you can go through and still be okay. But you’re gonna learn so much when you get started.
When we started, we intentionally self managed so that we would learn the business. We would understand what it takes to manage tenants and how do you market a property, and how much upkeep is there really going to be. Because it felt like, have to learn the ins and outs of the business in order to ever one day, be able to step away from it. So just start taking that action and learn it by doing it.
Rod Khleif: Just do it. Yep, that’s the common answer for that question. Pay attention guys, just go out there and do it. Go make it happen. It really is. That’s what you got to do.
Andrew Campbell: I remember when we bought our… Just a quick story…
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Campbell: We bought out first four-plex that’s sort of a B minus area. I can remember pulling up to an effort just having closed on it and almost being intimidated, and a little bit scared, like, “What did we just do?I have no idea what we’re doing. I’m gonna walk up here and introduce myself.” I didn’t know to get an introduction from the previous owner. I just was walking into a totally unknown space and then felt intimidated, walking up, and knocking on these doors to start this whole process.
I last thought, every time I pull up to that property now, but it was like had an uneasiness in my stomach, had butterflies in my stomach. Like, “What are we doing? Now, it’s just that we’ve had our stride and understand the business. It’s because we took that action in that first step.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, that’s great. That’s a great example. Is it just you and your brother? Are there any other people on your team? Have you bought some other people in? Talk about team for a second.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah, now, it’s just us. I mean, we’ve got a team of contractors, the ones that are being managed. We’ve obviously got a property management team, in place there. But the day-to-day, sort of looking at deals, evaluating, building relationships with banks, etcetera. It’s just the two of us.
Rod Khleif: Great, so you’re out there doing that. You go in talking to banks, and developing, ‘cause guys, this is a relationship business. That’s so critical, that you could get out there and develop those relationships. They can make all the difference. You’re doing that. That’s great.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah, 100% it’s a relationship business. And I think it’s a local business.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: Like each city has its own set of players and build the networks in the places you wanna play.
Rod Khleif: Yep. Great advice. Great advice. Let me ask you this, maybe you can share maybe your greatest victory story on a purchase and maybe a war story. A story where you got your butt kicked, your nose bloodied or whatever mistake you may have made. Do you have examples you can think of?
Andrew Campbell: Sure. I do. We’ll start with the downsides so we end it on a high note.
Rod Khleif: Alright. [chuckle] Go ahead.
Andrew Campbell: We call it a near-miss. We’ve been buying these in our names, and my brother had a four-plex property under contract and had ___ [00:24:24] kind of the 11th hour. They said, “Hey, you can’t close. There’s been a ding on your credit, we’re not gonna be able to close the loan.” It turns out he had some old credit card that he didn’t pay attention to that had some recurring… It was literally a $1 fee.
Rod Khleif: Wow.
Andrew Campbell: And it had dropped his credit down and they weren’t gonna give him a loan. So we scrambled in because we have to… We’re using the same agent, called me in… We were able to transfer it into my name, and get it closed, and save the earnest money, and just abided by the terms they had.
It turned out; it’s sort of a joke now that it’s sort of in my name versus his. It was a very near miss, and it’s almost this really costly mistake because it’s been a fantastic property and has appreciated bunch, and cash flows, 14-$1500 a month. So that was a very near miss and almost very costly.
Rod Khleif: Wow.
Andrew Campbell: On the positive side, we’ve got some of our first deals actually turned out to be really, really good. The very first duplex we bought, paid 212,000 for it. We put about $20,000 into it, and fixing it up, and again leveraged the team of our realtor. He had guys that could come in and do the work. Last year, we did a refinance, and pulled out some of the equity that appraised for $365,000.
We are able to pull all of the money we had in that property out to go fill more acquisitions.
Rod Khleif: Wow.
Andrew Campbell: That has been a great deal
Rod Khleif: Awesome. Awesome. If you could go back in time, what would you tell your younger self about getting into this business?
Andrew Campbell: I wish that, like everybody else, that we had started sooner.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: Just not being… I wouldn’t change the path that we are on ‘cause I think, now, our sort of purpose and our why, is so clear to us. I mean having gone through the things we did, that’s given us the focus. But I wish we would have started earlier, and I wish we wouldn’t have… We passed on some deals ‘cause we were afraid of the rehabs, we were afraid of the areas a little bit more, and I think we just didn’t have the confidence early on to, “We can go into, maybe it’s a little bit rougher area”, and know that we can still manage that property effectively. That it can be a winner.
We passed on some deals, looking back on it, man, we could have made so much money on. So just have the confidence, again, like to stretch your comfort zone constantly, everyday. Just beyond what you think you can do.
Rod Khleif: That’s great advice. Yeah. I tell people, build your competence, as much as you can, by book study and being out there and kicking the tires so it ultimately builds your confidence. Which in turn will develop your intuition. And you’ll know, what you can’t handle and what you can handle. What area’s a good area? What’s a good deal? You’ll just know.
Andrew Campbell: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Because you’re consciously competent.
Andrew Campbell: I can’t think of any…
Rod Khleif: Anything else you can expand on? That might add value that you can think of.
Andrew Campbell: I think going back to the sort of our origins, we were looking for passive income and use the whole notion of passive is a bit of a fallacy. That’s we’re very active in the business, and my wife jokes that I’ve got two full-time jobs. And his wife tells him the same thing but to you, it doesn’t feel like working, to your earlier comment.
Rod Khleif: No.
Andrew Campbell: I get in to this business because there’s so much benefit for it. There’s financial benefit, there’s the joy of building something and seeing a portfolio being built. But it’s not a hands-off business. You need to be in it everyday, a lot everyday. We spend hours everyday, at night and in the mornings, and everywhere in between working on it.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Andrew Campbell: In two words, it’s grown into that obsession and passion. That that’s gonna be the next chapter of what we do with Wildhorn Capital.
Rod Khleif: Well I will tell you something, just for the people that are thinking, “Oh boy, this is gonna be a lot of work. Andrew, when you start your own property management company, and you have someone managing these properties for you, particularly when you stop acquiring, and there’ll be a point. At some point in everybody’s life, they stop acquisitions, when that happens it really is not a lot of work.
Particularly, if you got somebody handling the management for you, I mean, I’m just telling you from experience. So know that. Yes you’ll get a call occasionally, but it won’t be the level of work that you’re dealing with now.
Listen, Andrew, thank you so much for being on the show. Say hello to your brother, Mark. I really appreciate you adding value to my listeners today.
Andrew Campbell: I’ve enjoyed it, Rod. Thanks for having me.
Rod Khleif: Absolutely. Alright. Take care.
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