Ep #435  – Swapnil Agarwal – 20,000 doors in Six Years

Here is some of what you will learn:

  • The value of investing in people
  • Being stifled by paycheck security?
  • Swapnil’s org. chart
  • Virtualizing your organization
  • Being proactive in a crisis
  • The value of being a resource to your community
  • The importance of cash flow management
  • Always have a Big Dream
  • How to set yourself up to win
  • “Educated risks have no downside”

To find out more about our guest: click here


Full Transcript Below

Ep #435 – Swapnil Agarwal – 20,000 doors

Hi, my name is Rod Khleif and I’m the host of “Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing” Podcast and every week I interview multifamily rockstars. We talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the like and subscribe button to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it

Rod:  Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cashflow through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I’m absolutely thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re gonna get incredible value from the rock star that winter viewing today his name is Swapnil Agarwal. And Swapnil, I don’t even know where to start he’s the founding and managing principal of Nitya capital and CEO of its sister company Karya Capital or Karya Management. And they’ve got over 2.5 billion dollars in assets. Yes that’s with a “b”, over twenty thousand doors and there’s no question we’re gonna get incredible value from this conversation with him today. Welcome to the show my friend

Swapnil: Thank you. It’s a pleasure and honor to be under your show Rod.

Rod:  Well thank you for saying that. So you know I think a great place to start in this conversation would you, you know I know you’re an immigrant like myself and I’d love to hear your story you know just the highlights of how you got from immigrating this country to twenty thousand doors and an incredible track record here. So please tell us what it took to get here

Swapnil: Yeah sure thank you. It’s a great honor to be on the show Rod. I emigrated to America from India when I was 15 years old. I had just completed my ninth grade in India and I moved to in the United States to Houston, Texas in 1996 and I grew up in a very small town in India and you know had a very you know come came from very humble beginnings. Coming to America was definitely an eye-opener just for any other immigrant adays. But what I quickly realized is that America is a symbol of capitalism you know America is probably the only country in the world that provides that platform for people who have the visions, who have the dreams, who have the hustle, who have that hard work mentality that you can’t succeed. And I can’t think of any other country in this world that would give you that platform, that can give the platform to a young immigrant or a guy with humble beginnings if we have the right intentions, you have good intentions, if if you’re willing to put in the work you know if the country will give you the wings to be successful and that’s a classic story that I feel fortunate to be part of you know as a young immigrant obviously we all face a lot of challenges. The culture is very different but people are very nice. People are very straight to the point you know I grew up in India and I was actually thinking about it earlier this week is you know in America, everybody’s so straightforward. They say it the way they think about it right? Growing up in India or UK or you know people are so used to saying things in a roundabout ways that you know you don’t exactly know what people are saying. And so coming to America that was a very very you know eye opener revelation because you don’t have to be afraid of asking questions. If you don’t understand something, you ask the question. Whereas growing up in you know developing countries like India, they discourage you to ask questions because you’re supposed to know everything. But America I mean here I noticed things where even the professor is going to school or you know during business even the top CEOs just ask questions. If they’re not sure about something you’re willing to ask them, you can ask the question, nobody will say that’s a dumb question. There’s never a dumb question. So coming back to my story you know I’ve worked very hard. I came on an immigrant visa you know I didn’t know I didn’t know the whole visa status in America. Obviously it’s a big challenge to you know come to America as an immigrant it doesn’t have the permanent residency but that is a big challenge that I would say millions of people living in America face today. Anyways, overcoming that obstacle, working hard passing our pizza flyers in the same apartment complexes that we own today, getting orders

Rod:  Oh that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Wow.

Swapnil: Working very hard and you know paying my way through school and my parents were you know young you know they were in the mid forties when they came. There was a bigger of a culture shock for them because they grew up in India and they worked all their life and coming for them at age 45 was a pretty pretty big culture shock for them. But this stuff who they believed in, they believed in me and my capabilities and I was able to you know pass out of high school and fortunate enough to go to University of Texas at Austin. And you know look, my only objective in life coming from the background I was, I wanted to make as much money as possible. And you know I said okay which career field I can choose that will allow me to do that? And I chose finance because people had told me the only way to make money out of college to become an investment banker and I was fortunate enough to become an investment banker you know the most premier investment making shops in Houston. Went through through my analyst program for three years. It was an oil and gas. I didn’t think that I could add too much value in oil and gas. So I said okay let me go into real estate. So I got a position in a private equity fund and I’ve moved to Hong Kong for seven years. Invested… one of the best things to you know experience that I got from working in a private equity shop was what it taught me is working for financial institutions, all we are doing is providing capital. And we’re looking for these solid operators, these owner operators who not only are sophisticated with how the numbers work or the returns were, but are very very hands-on in terms of when it comes to the property level information you know the people who are willing to roll up the sleeves and exactly know what’s going on at the properties. So in my experience and as a lot of private equity institutions find out, you run into either a very sophisticated high-class operator who will talk the language, will talk to finance language or you get into a loop the mom-and-pop guys, who were great at what they do at the property level but they don’t have the background the finance background talk about ROI and IRRs. So I said, why don’t I become one of that? Why don’t I be the combination of that because you know look, I grew up you know passing up pizza flyers, working at my dad’s convenience store. So I knew how the business was run and then I had a finance background. So I came back in 2013, came back from HongKong, bought our first property in Houston in 2014 of March, was 160 unit apartment complex you know the worst locations of town. And I said look I’m gonna try and manage their asset myself. So I acted like a fundraiser or a lawyer to preparing company agreement. I was accountant making key financials and I was a property manager and the system manager trying to collect rent from a very very rough tenant base. And it taught me a lot about humility, taught me a lot about you know how to you know conduct a business and to be very honest Rod, for the first three months when I was doing this, I thought it’s the worst mistake of my life. You know here I am you know sitting in a Class B- the best way to put that apartment complex trying to collect rent you know fearing for my life the next moment I might get shot coming from a high-rise sitting in Hong Kong, the nice cushy finance job, sitting in this kind of environment. I thought it’s the worst mistake and you know when I bought the property it was on paper 90%. I take over a 65% actually. I mean it taught me a lot about okay what to do and how to run an asset and what to believe what not to believe, what kind of due diligence need to do but you know I stuck with it. We did the biggest I would say the biggest thing I did was to invest in people. I hired the right people. I kept investing in building a team because I was foreseeing the growth. I didn’t believe in taking shortcuts. I didn’t believe I’m really gonna own five properties. My goal was always I’m gonna have a hundred properties only 100,000 units. People you should laugh at me. I said that’s fine you know you keep that you keep that laughter you keep that sarcasm and people talk to you and let

Rod:  Use it. You use it right

Swapnil: Yeah use it. You use it. Keep that as a motivation keep that as a fire to feed you later. So you know from there to here now, fortunate enough to have 20,000 units, 1 million square feet of office space, 300,000 square feet of retail makes you space, you have a single for any platform which buys and flip rental homes. So we’re lucky to be here. Again, my vision is that this is still a second inning of a nine inning ballgame we have long ways to go.

Rod:  Well yeah. Yeah well listen, if you don’t mind I’d like to drill down on a few things because you know from panning out pizza flyers to 20,000 doors, now there’s no question you know I think it’s fairly obvious that that finance background and that finance experience, I know that you were involved in three billion dollars with the transactions globally where real estate transactions that that was an incredible preframe for what you did here because you know one of the things I thought about when I heard how many you know how many doors you have and your what a little bit I knew of your story is how did you raise all that capital? How much capital of you raised so far in your lifetime? Do you know that number?

Swapnil: I think it’s close to 500 million of equity

Rod:  500 million you’ve raised. So you know I want to well let’s just go there right now I want to talk about some other things like your team and things like that but you know did you use a lot of private equity in your deals or was it was it one-on-one investors? How did that happen?

Swapnil: Yeah you know it’s so funny you asked me that question Rod because tilde I think to myself how did I ever raise that much money. Why did anybody try to you know decided to trust me and put their money and hard-earned savings and in and out of platform. So I’ll give you a start from the first project that was a whole million dollar project, 160 units, you know again, getting a loan was a bigger challenge because here you are you know my net worth was you know three hundred thousand. I mean that’s my lifetime savings at that time. And here I am trying to get a 2.5million worth of loan, try to raise 1.5million worth of equity. And I went through banks to banks and you know was I had to take a lot of rejections. Finally, I got a local bank who gave me a loan with a cosigner and again I’m grateful for having great friends. One of my friends who comes from a good background and he helped by signing, co-signing on the loan. So I got the loan and then my other partner back who’s my partner in the business, he had a lot of connection. So we made the rounds and fish the idea to friends and family and when around in couple of his colleagues in New York. And somehow, we were able to scrape through and raise 1.4 million dollars. And that was about 15 investors and til day Rod, I have never hired any broker-dealers. I have never paid anybody to raise any capital for me. Everything I breathe is all words of mouth. This all reference this is all track record because we are very cashflow focused. We are telling investors 10% cash and cash quarterly distributions and they’ve never missed a quarterly distribution. So making sure you keep that going. People need a place to live. People have, are sitting on cash. There’s only few avenues that people can invest, there’s stock market, there’s bonds, but real estate is actually should be a big portion of your investment. And they just don’t know how to do it. I guess we came at the right time where people took that leap of faith. We had created track records on the first property we bought. We were able to recycle that capital within six months and doubled everybody’s money that people gave a lot of confidence and they refer to their friends and family. So we started off with high net worth friends and family capital and you know as you would have it this net natural cycle in anybody’s company when it comes to capital raising, in the last two years they’ve taken a lot of money from private equities. We have done you know family

Rod:  Family offices, I was gonna ask you about that as well yeah I’m having Richard Wilson talk to my mastermind here in a week in a couple of weeks you know who he is I’m sure with the family office environment. So Wow, 500million, holy cow, so you talk about a partner and you know and it’s interesting. I just interviewed some kids, they’re kids, they are in their 20s. Three of them and they have 65 million in assets between them and it’s just such a treat to have them on the show and what was interesting is every one of them was in a partnership where one of them was analytical and the other one was more outgoing. I’m just curious what your partnership is like yeah

Swapnil: You know I would say that my partner Vivek, he was my first friend when I came to America and he used to pick me up, give rides. I have another one of my best friend who is also a partner in the company. He’s more operations. So Vivek, he’s you know he’s great you know again he, we were college roommates there our first jobs together then he went to the hedge fund industry. I came into private equity

Rod:  Oh so both of you are analytical then okay

Swapnil: We’re both analytical but you know the thing is, for any partnership survive or to do well or to flourish, you have to understand your roles. So I’m very aggressive. I’m very official minded. I’m on the cash flow side. And he’s great in investor relations, raising capital. So that’s how it works and my other partner who’s good about you know who’s good about operations, was good about day-to-day operation, tasks maintenance, and headquarters. Another thing I would say

Rod:  Do you self-managed? Forgive me. I’m sorry to interrupt. Do you self-managed?

Swapnil: Yeah we self-managed because very early Rod, after working with third parties for about nine months, they said it’s the only way to succeed and only way to progress is to have our own property manager. That’s the sister company Cartier Property Management

Rod:  Oh I see gotcha okay

Swapnil: And then I have my wife you know again I’ve known her since middle school. She was the pre integral part when we started this business. She was you know a lot of times when you’re taking a decision like that I mean look 99.9% people can never have their own business because they’re too scared about their paycheck security every two weeks

Rod:  Sure

Swapnil: So people talk about doing a business they never do. I was lucky enough to have a partner and my wife that encouraged me to take this leap of faith

Rod:  I love it. I love it. It’s so critical the, yeah the most successful people on the planet have that support system. So your market area is it the whole state of Texas? Or there are other states? What’s your market area?

Swapnil: Yes. So we started in Houston 40,000 units I would say about 50% assets are in Houston and we have Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, Laredo, and we have assets in Nevada, Las Vegas, and Kansas

Rod:  Gotcha okay and the component, you know just back to team for a minute I’d love for my listeners who have no clue about you know what’s involved and please don’t be offended by that comment those are you listening but don’t understand you know the intricacies and I tried to go, I do a Facebook live on this last night or the night before about team and like our you know our capital team with the acquisition side, the asset management side, and the Investor Relations side. Can you speak to your team a little bit more? You talked about your partner Vivek and your wife was involved. And then you had another partner doing operations. What is, without the management side of it, what does the core nucleus look like? Just to get an idea

Swapnil: Yeah I’m very big on building a team. So we’ve divided our team here or is into six divisions. We have we have asset management, we have operations, we have accounting, we have marketing, we have HR, and the MIT. Obviously, all these departments does not exist when we first started and they have developed over the last seven years but, and obviously I was playing a lot of these roles which

Rod:  Sure you were wearing a bunch of those hats for a long time like any entrepreneur right

Swapnil: Absolutely. So the setup is you know we have your day-to-day eyes and ears to the ground, the regional supervisors or on-site ground you know personnel maintenance leasing agent managers and you it rolls up into regional supervisors who all oversee each oversee about 2,000 units each and then we have the vice president of operations and we have the head of operations. And then we have asset management which is you know which is like you know kids that are from private equity hedge fund, investor banking background, who’s kind of you know the white collar people who are kind of seeing the trends, looking at the models, looking at deciding okay how many renewals are coming up, what should be the rate, which should be a renewal percentage, knows all that stuff they’re kind of playing the quarterback with our operations team. And then we have the accounting team which is again very key role. They’re doing the monthly financials, they’re reporting, that the K1s. They are reporting to the investors who put all their money in their funds. And then we have marketing which is you know as we know marketing today is very different at marketing six years ago. Everything is social media, everything is Google, SEO. It never used to be the case in Class B and C space that these seven years ago

Rod:  So you’re talking about the marketing on your assets correct? That’s the marketing departments not investor relations marketing, gotcha. Its reputation management it’s marketing for rentals and you know let me ask you this kind of us on the side, what have you virtualized in your operation? cuz I mean we got us today we’re stuck in our homes right now. So what have you done and where are you going with that?

Swapnil: You know it’s so funny and ironic that I believe that for anyone to succeed, you have to have the technology aspect conquering because without it, you’re going to stay behind you’re gonna get left behind. So we have a separate Technology department that have full-time software coders and we have virtual eyes, we have everything. I mean last year we took the decision where we stopped accepting payments at the property level. Whether it was a money order or was there a check, everything is online. People can go to any grocery stores. They have a resident number. They paid through e-money orders because 80% of our tenants do pay through money orders. Every resident has a login for the whole. They can pay through credit cards. We have a resident portal and then virtual easing. So people even before the wires people had the ability to launch an online application through a website. They can apply online. What we’ve added now is ability to do virtual easing tours where we have you know look see how the floor plans look like but basically everything, every aspect of our business is virtual now. I mean I could work from home even though I’m in office. I don’t have to come to office but again it’s a people’s business right. If you have twenty thousand families, they have issues, they have maintenance requests, they have many questions. So we decided we have to have the presence at the property level where the leasing office is open but virtually for any payments or for any new leasing, it all can be done virtually

Rod:  Fantastic. Now have you installed tech packages you know the automatic door walking from your PDA or any of that stuff? Now look, before you answer that question what is your primary asset class? Are you in the B-C market is that it?

Swapnil: Yeah I would say 90% is workforce housing Rod

Rod:  Workforce housing okay. So maybe not on the tech packages then. Yeah you know we try to be wise and prudent about where we spend the money you know people talk about I guess you go to these conferences and people go what’s the value add strategy and people are talking about having the best pools and having the word show having these packages and the tech package you know for us in our tenant base, what I realized and having grown up in the same apartment community for 10 years in this country, I can tell you there is only three things that matters the most of these people. It’s about cleanliness, safety. That’s the most important thing for this tenant base. If you provide them with a clean safe place to live which happens they can feel safe about raising their families, that’s what’s the most important factor. So that’s what we try to do in for communities

Rod:  No, love it love it. So let’s talk for a minute about the elephant in the room the fact that we’re locked in our rooms you know how are you reacting to what’s happening in the marketplace and with workforce housing, I’m sure that you’ve had an impact on your collections. I think it’s probably going to be dramatic more dramatic in May and June. But to talk about what’s happening in your portfolio and then some of the proactive steps that I’m sure you’re taking in this environment

Swapnil: Yeah you know I think Rod, it’s unfortunate that I don’t think anybody could have envisioned in this situation six weeks ago. So we all are kind of playing you know on the back foot and trying to figure out a way forward and how to be most proactive in the situation. So you know look the first step I took was my allegiance is towards my 800 employees and my 20,000 families. So the first step I took you know four weeks ago was I promised to each one of my employees all the eight hundred one of them is that everybody will continue to get paid no matter what happens. So what we did is we continue to have the leasing office open but they lock the doors so that nobody could come in. So at least they have some presence at the property level and then we did four hour shifts so that people can only work four hours at a time. So we did that. So you wouldn’t believe how many toys were so thankful and grateful just because they knew that I’ve taken a continue get paid. Second thing, I do it last week was I went with the mayor of Houston. I was on TV and I announced a four million dollar rental assistance fund which is so we have a non-profit foundation Karya cares. So anybody who’s lost their jobs we will basically pay up to $1,000 in rent for them proof that they have lost their jobs

Rod:  Good for you

Swapnil: And I also announced one hundred thousand dollars each to our Houston Police Department, fire department, and the Sheriff Department because they are the frontline workers. And if they are not safe then they’re not going to be able to perform their services in the right manner. So I took that decision and announced that it was a great way to reward and say thanks to the to the frontline workers. In terms of her collection Rod. I think we’ve been we’ve been very fortunate this month so far. We have I would say collected on almost 93 percent of our rent. Yeah almost 93 percent and I think you know the stimulus checks are starting to come now. People are starting to get that $200 and unemployment benefits I think for April, we will do well. We will probably and it’s so ironic to say that that March was one of her best months ever believe it or not. And we were hoping that April would be better but with all this virus locked down, we kind of brace ourselves to see that we would probably be okay you know so April I think we will collect almost close to hundred percent of what we collected last month in terms of the net operating income level, I would say we will do better because they minimize lot of expenses, we shut down all the capital expenditures. We have to be mindful of the work orders or the supplies the order. And I’m hoping that you know Texas is a big you know it’s a wild card when it comes to property taxes because you know it’s a non-disclosure stay and every year the county or the tax assessor comes out with the bills and they’re usually pumping the valuation quite a bit which they have done this year again. So I’m hoping that there’s some steps because property taxes are our number one expense for any multifamily owner. And we’re hoping that they take some steps where they cap the property taxes when it comes compared to the last year that will help us quite a bit but as you write he said maybe we’re all in anticipation of seeing what happens in May and June. I hope the economy is back open by then or there’s more stimulus plan but look we can only do what’s on our control Rod.

Rod:  No you’re right. Yeah you’re right, we can only control what we can control. All we can do is be proactive and I’m you know I’m sure you’ve got you know you’re over communicating right now with your residents correct? I mean your team

Swapnil: Absolutely. If you’re trying to give them links to where they can apply for assistance if they don’t qualify for the government programs or we are giving them links to where they can you know Walmart, Amazon, they’re hiring. The pizza shops are hiring quite a bit. We’re trying to help them in whatever capacity we can. We are trying to give employment. We’re trying to take care of the residents, people who are in charge of paying for their rent. But look, we gotta take it a day at a time

Rod:  That’s it

Swapnil: I would say that as a multifamily owner operator, we are probably the safest asset class when it comes to you know preserving your capital. I mean look, hotels, retails, malls, I mean they’re devastated

Rod:  They’re in trouble, no question. There’s gonna be some. So let me ask you this, obviously you know opportunity is around the corner. There are a lot of skinny deals that were done the last few years and there’s you know this is gonna be enough to push some you know quite a few of them over the edge. A lot of businesses are gonna fail it’s sad it’s very very sad. And I heard an interesting, Jay Abraham, a brilliant marketer say, it’s a time for ethical opportunism. And I thought that was the integrity but opportunity. And I thought that was a great phrase but you know are you anticipating getting into acquisition mode you know within the year as you know things start to happen?

Swapnil: No absolutely Rod. We have already you know I was you know in a bittersweet way I was thinking that this will bring a lot of opportunities. And we actually just tied up an asset earlier this week in San Antonio. It’s about a 20 million dollar acquisition. So look we are being opportunistic. We were going to take advantage of situation because we know you know when your neighbor starts calling you that he wants to buy an apartment complex you know that the market is too overheated. People think it’s too easy to do I would tell you the hardest part of my job as a CEO-Owner is cash flow management you know working capital people underestimate how difficult is it to manage working capital because look we’re doing the capex, we’re renovating these apartments. We have to spend the money first and it takes about 30 to 60 days for the lender to fund that draw and how do you manage the working capital really defines you and I don’t think people who got in this business over the last year to three years, they realize the importance and the importance of that aspect and some of those people get in trouble. And for me and you know our associate, our fiduciary duties to my investors, there were instances in the past where certain asset might not be performing well. In those cases we defer to own fees. We want to make sure the investors do get their distributions first and investors will tend to remember that those cases. So I think a lot of those, yeah as you said there’s going to be a lot of opportunities where people have got in the industry to you know later in the cycle and but we’ll be ready

Rod:  Love it love it love it. I’d like to go just for a few minutes to kind of a different direction and you know it’s what you’ve accomplished is so incredible. And I’d like to get a little bit of ethereal with you if you’ll humor me for a moment and that is you know what do you think drives you? What’s that pusher for you? I’d like you to share that with you know I have a lot of aspiring investors that listen to my show. People that know they want to do this. They know they need to push through the fear and take action to actually make this happen for themselves you know what drives you and what might you tell, two-part answer, what drives you and what might you tell those people that know they should get into this business and you know what words of wisdom from you

Swapnil: Yeah I think Rod that you know when somebody asks you what drives you, never say money. You never say profit because profit is always the end result of whatever you do. It needs to be a bigger purpose. My bigger purpose is how do you improve people’s life? How I will improve the living conditions of people’s life? Now that’s my intent. That’s my motivation. How I go about doing that? That’s my business right. So what I’m trying to do is, I’m trying to make sure the investors get rewarded for the money, that fatal leap of fate they have taken by investing in my assets and I want to make sure my tenants are living happily and peacefully. And then if profit comes as end result of that, that’s great. So that’s my, my motivation is how do I improve people’s living conditions. And at the same time I want to make sure investors make great amount of returns because that’s their savings. So that’s what really drives me

Rod:  Okay so second part of the question, to those that are listening right now that are they can’t even fathom 20,000 units but, what would you tell them about this business and how they might you know what words of wisdom would you share with them?

Swapnil: Yeah I think you know it sounds like a big number and I was at zero six years ago. So

Rod:  That’s unbelievable

Swapnil: I was at zero so always have a big dream you know always say out your dreams out loud because it’s from your mouth to God’s ears. Always say your dreams out loud this is what you want to be. But then go about doing it in the right highly integral way of integrity. And that means is okay you buy a hundred unit now hundred, each number will continue to add up and then sooner or later if your track record is good, you will get a lot of funds. You have to put yourself in a position to be successful. Don’t say that okay I’m gonna win a lottery one day. Well to win a lottery you have to buy a lottery ticket first right? So if you want to be a successful entrepreneur, put yourself in the position to become successful. And then if you become successful or not leave that to your destiny because that’s up to God, if you cannot become successful. You can only do what’s in your hands like in the situation we’re in. We can only do what’s in our hands right now. If people come out, if only fifty percent of people who pay rent next month or in June, that’s not up to me. I can only put myself in a position to succeed. So anybody who’s dreaming to be an entrepreneur to be successful, put yourself in the best position possible to be successful and then leave the rest to God

Rod:  No I like it. I like it and you put yourself in that position through education through taking action through aligning with the right people, with building your team and all of the all the above. Okay the last question I want to ask you and I’m so grateful for your time today. I know how incredibly busy you are, is if you were to tell and I like to ask this question but I’d really like to hear your answer. If you are gonna tell your 20 yr old self knowing what you know now, what might you say and what might you do differently?

Swapnil: I would start taking the risk much earlier on in my life right. You know look I’m relatively young entrepreneurs but I would say be getting this habit of you know we don’t want to take risk in life. I mean if you take educated risk, there is no downside to it. Even if you’re unsuccessful in that particular venture you will come out of smarter man. You’ll come out of smarter on the other side of it and you will learn a lot like my experience in Hong Kong in Asia you know look I did private equity but the biggest thing that I gained from there is learning different cultures, is to learn, is to see when you invest in somebody you’re investing in people not in a particularly any deal will look great on paper if I present your financial model or a private point presentation. I will not present you a deal that looks bad. Everything will look good that you see. You’re investing in people. You don’t look at the person’s eyes it’s gonna, this guy’s gonna make me money. That’s what I learned. More than the deal itself is about the people that you’re investing in

Rod:  Yeah that’s so sound. Thank you for that. If I get added a ton of value to me personally. Well listen my friend, it’s very much been a pleasure to meet you and a real treat to have you on my show and I’m very very grateful for your time today

Swapnil: Thank you so much Rod. I appreciate it. Have a great day