Ep #553 – MFRS From 7 to 1000 Units in 3 Years
Warrior Oliver Fernandez owns a construction company that has completed over 60M dollars in contracts. He is a 2 time contractor of the year award winner and is general partner in over 100M of multi family real estate. Oliver has redefined what success looks like for himself after building up his team and developing powerful relationships. Here’s some of what we discussed:
- Building your team
- Surrounding yourself with ambitious people
- What to look for in a partner
- Overcoming fear
- Beast mode
To find out more about our guest:
Full Transcript Below:
Rod: Welcome back to Multifamily Rock Stars. So this is where we interview people that are crushing it in this business. And we show you guys the inside scoop into how multifamily investors are creating massive success in their businesses and in their lives. And as always I’ve got my co-host who’s the director of our massive action team for our warrior mentorship group, Mark Nagy on the call. Mark, what’s up brother?
Mark: Hey Rod, not too much. Been super excited lately, high energy coming off that boot camp from you last month with about 800 plus people, and so we’ve just been working with a lot of amazing people week after week and just a lot of good people looking to change their lives. So, I’m loving it.
Rod: Yeah. No, it’s really going well. We, you know, one of the warriors closed on 172 unit yesterday and we’re actually closing on a 269 today. But listen, let’s get to our guest. Super cool guy. He joined our warrior program. I will have to find out when but his name’s Oliver Fernandez and he was in the construction business, still in the construction business. When he joined the program, he had seven units. He now has just under a thousand. So we’re going to dig into that but super nice guy. Got a baby girl. Oliver, welcome to the show brother.
Oliver: Hey Rod, how you doing? I appreciate it both you and Mark. You said Mark, you mentioned change your life and Rod’s program totally changed the outlook of my life. I feel like I was just like, I was successful but I was just like so tunnel vision and I went to his event and I was like totally exploded. My like, vision for like, what was possible and what I can do, you know, I really appreciate that too, Rod.
Rod: Yeah, no. Love it. Now listen, you know, I mean, you’re a real force in the Warrior program as well because you’re very motivated and, you know, you’re motivating other people which is just so incredible. That group just, everybody’s helping each other, but you really go above and beyond on that. Before we go there, give us your story. Talk about, you know, how you started in the real estate business and even prior to that. Just give us a little background if you would, let’s go there first.
Oliver: Yeah. I appreciate that, Rod. So, I got into, you know, real estate in 2008. I bought my first like, property, I thought I was gonna be this big real estate guy and it was a condo. And like, for me it was like all about like, growth and just like, getting better and trying to figure it out and when I mean that figure it out, like it brings you back to like my childhood and like, I remember I was like struggling at baseball and, you know, I grew up with my mom and three sisters, so like, I didn’t have someone like playing catch with me like throwing like line drives to me. So, like, all I did is I used to play catch like throwing the ball up in the air and catching it with one hand and throwing it up in there and catching the other hand. So, like, I remember like this one game I had, right? And I was struggling at the time so like, you know, like just catching stuff. So, I was practicing that throwing up one hand and catching the other hand. And then, the pitcher stepped to the plate, threw it home, and the batter hit it, and it was coming right to me and like I was running right under it, and I’m like, my coach is yelling, All over two hands. Two hands. And the reason why he was doing that is because they always taught to catch the ball with two hands. And like, I didn’t have my dad around, so like, I didn’t have someone throwing the ball to me. I was throwing with one hand and I was catching with the other. So, I get under the thing, and I catch it with one hand, and then I throw it home, and I get the guy out at home. So, like, that’s just kind of been my whole thing in life is just kind of like figuring it out, learning and growing, and yeah, there’s mistakes but like, you know, just keep moving forward. So, that condo that I bought, I first bought, I made so many mistakes on that property. It’s unbelievable. I first off, I bought it and it was fully renovated, and I’m a construction guy, I bought a fully renovated property at the top of the market in 2008. So, you can only imagine the pain that I went through just six months later, you know, with the thing dropping my first deal and then all the equity that I thought I, you know, was going to have in the property was immediately gone. And, yeah, I was renting the prop– I rented out like one of the rooms which actually kind of saved me on the property. So, I was like, my first real taste of like, Oh, wow. Someone can help pay the mortgage down and like, allowed me to like, spend, pay the mortgage down but also have a little bit of residual income because I wanted to send money home to my mom, you know? That was my big goal there. So, yeah, that was my first deal. And then, I moved from, you know, buying that condo to being an agent, you know? I wanted to, I thought that like I could shake things up being a rental agent in New York City. I was thinking I was like, All right. My job is paying me $50000 a year which is peanuts living in New York City. I’m like, if I can just do one deal a week or was it one deal? Yeah. One deal a week at $1000, I’ll be able to like have all my time back, and then, and make money. And I ended up doing like, you know, $100000 that year but it killed me. It was like, brutal.
Rod: So, rental agent, so you’re talking about leasing like retail space or office space or things like that?
Oliver: It was actually in New York City, you can actually–
Rod: Was it residential?
Oliver: It was the residential.
Rod: Oh, no kidding. Okay.
Oliver: If you get one month rent or you can even get 15% of a month, you know, so like, you can make, there’s some higher priced things there, like $5000, $6000. You know, all the way down to like $2000. So like, you can make a living doing it.
Rod: Oh, yeah. No, no. People do that in Miami as well. I wasn’t, they didn’t click with me. So, please continue. So, you’re a rental agent, you made a good year. So, what happened after that?
Oliver: Yeah. I made $100000. I was like, Oh, man. I’m like, Yeah. I could see myself continuing to grow this but like, I am absolutely shocked. So I’m like, instead of making all these landlords rich here in New York City, I’m gonna start and make myself rich. So, I was starting to look around for properties where I could do some development. And then like, buy it and renovate it, and do similar to what the landlord I saw at the New York City.
Rod: Were you already a GC at that point?
Oliver: No. I was still in New York City, so I was, I knew I couldn’t afford something in New York City, so I was looking in like, New Jersey area, and then I was also considering DC. But then, when I started to look at like, the taxes, I was like, Wow. In New Jersey, I’m gonna be paying $15000 in taxes, but I can buy that same exact property in DC and be paying $3000 in taxes. Let me go down there. So, I bought my first property down in DC and started doing like a renovation value add, and I created a ton of value at the property, and it was actually, when I was there on that property, I was in the back alleyway and I know a lot of, you know, parents are like, Don’t talk to strangers, you know, don’t talk to strangers, but my parents like, you know, my mom, she was more of like the teacher type but she was like, a little bit on the, she was very outgoing but we didn’t really have a lot of people around but my dad was more of a business guy. So, there was always strangers around because there was employees, there was team members, there was partners. So, I got familiar with talking with strangers. And I met this stranger in the alleyway, right? Older gentleman, maybe like 88 years old. And he’s like, asking me about my renovation, and all the value, and the things I was doing to the neighborhood. And he’s just, you know, telling me all the horror stories that actually happened at the property, and he’s like, you know, Do you mind if I come in? And I was like, Yeah, of course. So, I showed him my property and as we were talking, he let me know he had like, he owned a couple properties down the street. And, you know, when I mean down the street, I meant like, you know, four or five houses down.
Oliver: And as we were talking further, you know, he was looking to sell him. He was looking to get out of the city. He was looking to move back to his home in Virginia full time. And these were properties where they were single family homes but I can convert them into duplexes.
Rod: Oh, nice.
Oliver: So, I was, you know, I was, I knew I wanted to get into, you know, multi-tenant stuff because I, you know, with that condo situation, I knew the pain that I had when that one tenant left that no one was paying my rent, no one was paying my mortgage. All things that you emphasized at the boot camp, you know, like, multi-units, multi-cash flow, like, it’s much better than just buying that single unit, right?
Oliver: So, I bought that. I ended up, you know, talking with him about the that row home, right? And we ended up working out a deal where he owner financed it to me. So, I was like, 22 years old and now, I was like, I bought, I’m pretty much, I bought that property and the property right next door. So, the guy owner financed the million dollars worth of property, and I had no credit, I had nothing, you know?
Oliver: The only thing I did is I had like, I ended up working on a deal with him where I was like, 5% down, and then like, I would get him the remaining. And in like, two years and like, it all just, it all worked out, and I ended up putting like seven units there.
Oliver: And I started to see the power of multi-family. And then, I came across your podcast, and I saw the boot camp, and I was like, I gotta go to that because I was–
Rod: Which one did you go to? Did you go to Baltimore?
Oliver: I went to Chicago.
Rod: Oh, Chicago.
Oliver: I flew. I was like, Wow. This is amazing. Because I was literally like, weeks or months away from making a big investment into like another piece of development land to develop. And like, when your podcast, you’re telling me about, Well, I could get cash flow day one. I could have all this Fanny Freddie debt. I could have, you know, hundreds of tenants already then there. And then, I could also feed that construction bug by like, doing the value add as the people or the tenants were moving out. And I was like, Wow. I gotta go see what this is all about. This is good. And I got there, man.
Rod: It was all downhill from there, right?
Oliver: No. It was all uphill, honestly. It was all uphill. Honestly, like, even like, the gratitude stuff that you talked about at the van. I still do that stuff to this day, man. I just, like, I swear like, I was so tunnel vision. I was just like stuck, and I like, left that event, and my whole life just exploded.
Rod: Oh, that’s kind of you to say that, brother. Thank you. So, let me ask you this. Let’s come forward to today. And you’ve got just under a thousand doors.
Rod: I’m assuming you’ve got a team put together that you and, you and some other people, or you and another person, is that right?
Oliver: Yeah. I work so, I have, on my team, I have a director of finance, because I also own a construction company as well.
Oliver: So we do–
Rod: So, it’s the same team? It’s the same team from your construction business?
Rod: I mean, I know you’ve got a very successful construction business, I think. You’ve done over $60000000 worth of work. You work with the navy. I mean, so, which is, of course, incredible framework for, you know, construction, in general, is incredible framework for what it is that we do. So, you’ve got someone helps with finance. You’re the one that does the investor relations and all that business, then?
Oliver: So, he also helps with investor relations as well.
Rod: He does. Okay.
Oliver: He handles the numbers, he walks the people through. But I have grown into being a person that can, you know, build the relationships, and have influence, and can raise money, you know, because like, that wasn’t always the case. I was once like, a shy kid, you know, like, you know, kept my, stayed small, just kept everything to myself, didn’t really share much. And I just had to get out of that mentality because it was just holding me back in just so many areas of life, you know? And I built into being a person that can raise money and do, and offer other value adds to my partners, you know?
Mark: Love it. Well, Oliver, obviously, you’re almost at a thousand doors today getting started with seven doors, but when you got into multi-family, what was your initial definition of success? And then, you know, after getting into it, now today, has your definition of success in multi-family, has it changed?
Oliver: Yeah. Well, I remember, I was sitting down with my father-in-law and, I mean, this isn’t a small goal but like, I was telling them like, I just wanna buy one property a year that nets me $5000 and I’ll do that for 10 years, that’ll be $50000. That’s $50000 a month, and that’s $600000 a year. So, that was my definition of success. And I was on that track. I was, you know, buying my singles and converting them into duplexes, triplexes, but what I found is that like, I was the one doing everything. I was the one killing myself, you know, like, trying to figure it out. I didn’t have a team at that point. I was doing everything on my own, going back to that figuring out thing like, back when I grew up. And it was holding me back, it was really holding me back. And then, now, like, after the event and, you know, really digging into the Warrior program and meeting such other good, strong, what I mean by strong, I mean like, analytical people that were hard-working, committed, confident, courageous people in the Warrior program, I started to build up my team. And then, I started to think about like, What more I could do? And honestly, when I came together with other Warriors, it was like, it wasn’t one plus one equals two. It was like, one plus one equals like, seven, because there was like, the dream got so much bigger together than it did when I was by myself.
Rod: Oh, that’s nice of you to say, you know.
Rod: By the way, guys, if you are interested in that program, the Warrior program, and you’d like to apply, text the word CRUSH to 72345, and we’ll set up a call with our team and just, you know, we wannna make sure you’re a fit for us, and you’ll make sure we’re a fit for you. But again, that’s CRUSH to 72345. So, let me ask you this, you know, you’ve created a team. What were some of the challenges that you went through, you know, getting, I mean, I know I’m sure there was a lot of stress, more zeros, you’re talking about a thousand doors, those are larger properties. Talk about some of the challenges you encountered and how you overcame them or, you know, pick one or two, you know.
Oliver: Yeah. So, honestly, it’s been eye-opening from, you know, picking the partners because like, when I say, I’ve had a bad situation with a partner. It was actually my dad. So, when I first started McKenzie Construction, the construction company that I own, I started that with my dad. So, I had the understanding and the experiences of a bad partnership. So, and what I mean by bad partnership, when we broke that company apart and like, he went his way and I went my way, we were half a million dollars in the hole. So, I’ve had that experience of a bad partnership. I’ve also had experiences of good partners because I partnered with another gentleman that had been doing navy construction projects, and it got me out of that $500000 hole. And then, went on to make, you know, complete $60000000 worth of contracts. So, I knew what a good partner looked like and I knew what a bad partner looked like. So then, moving forward into multi-family, and this is what my definition of success looks like is like, having teams of people like and having, and not just teams of people, but people that wanna go somewhere together, you know. So like, I found those partners and honestly, like, it was a great fit because I was really good at construction, they were really good at asset management, the other person was really good at the numbers, so like, we all kind of fit in weirdly. It was like, it was kind of cool. So like, I don’t really have anything bad to say about the partnership, like honestly, you know, was there struggles on the deal? Yeah. We had struggles on the deal. We had cash flow issues because this was a deep value add, this was a 152 unit property that we bought, and there was 30 down units when we first took over the property.
Oliver: And we financed a lot of that, we financed a lot of that construction through the lender.
Oliver: So, you can imagine just the, you know, you finish the construction then you put the draw on, and it’s not like, we’re their favorite client where they’re just like, Hey, yeah. Let me just pay that draw. You know? There’s a little bit of delay there.
Rod: Just let me elaborate on that, just for those of you listening. So, when, you know, you can absolutely finance construction with different loan products, but they’re gonna hold the money until you make that draw request and sometimes, you know, they’ll have to inspect, and that could take some time, and if you need that cash to pay people that are working on the property, you can see where you can get into a little bit of a, into a little bit of a crunch. I wanna talk about partnership for just a moment because you brought it up. And we’ve got a resource, you can get for free, guys. It’s questions to ask when forming a partnership and, you know, you’ve heard me say, if you haven’t heard me say it before, let me say it again, partnerships are easy to get into like a marriage but they’re hard to get out of. Okay? And so, if you want that book, text the word partnership to 72345. We’ll give it to you. All the questions you need to ask up front, so you don’t make mistakes because, you know, I’ve had issues with family members as well, like you did Oliver and, you know, and it’s no fun, because you gotta, you still gotta meet each other at Thanksgiving and Christmas and everything else, so, you know, it makes it very, very challenging. But if you ask all the hard questions up front, it really minimizes that like, I’m forming a new partnership with an awesome guy right now, Scott, and we went through this book together and, you know, we’re having an agreement drawn up based on what we went through. So, again, if you want that text partnership to 72345. But I also want to mention something else you talked about which is peer group. So, you were talking about people in the Warrior program heading the same direction. They’re motivated, they want what you want, they’re not afraid of what you want, they’re inspired and motivated by your success not held back by it. So, you know, guys, whether you get in our program or not, get around people that want more that are gonna hold you to a higher standard and inspire you and, you know, it’s that rising tide lifts all ships. Would you agree with that, Oliver?
Oliver: Yeah. Rising tides lifts all ship. Yeah, 100%. And honestly, like, you think about it, when you’re going after these big goals, you need energy to go after these big goals. And you’re not gonna have all the energy yourself. But you always say like, I’d rather have 10 people working on one problem than one person working on 10 problems. So, when I heard you say that, I was like, puff.
Rod: Yeah. Anytime we have an issue in my company, the big decision, we pull the whole team together because, you know, it’s that whole mastermind concept. You know, you put two like minds together, they create this intangible third mind that’s greater than the sum of the parts.
Oliver: Yeah, totally.
Mark: Well, and it also just gives you the confidence to do it, you know, I see this, even for myself in the Warrior group is you literally just see other normal everyday people, getting out there crushing their goals, you know, you can listen to podcasts like these, and easily think, Oh, he’s a multi-millionaire now, and he’s done this now, and he’s done that. But you look at these people that just have regular jobs, they’ve got kids, they’ve got families and, you know, four years later or three years later, they got a thousand doors and their lives are changed. It makes it a lot easier for you to get out there and take action when you see it. Right? And that’s why they always say, Your network equals your net worth. Right? That’s really where that comes into play.
Oliver: Mark, I couldn’t agree more with you. Now that you brought that up, that reminded me of. So, when I first started my construction business, I would go to these vendor outreach events, and that I was like, struggling. I would like, it was bad. I mean, being a half a million dollars in the hole is not a good spot to be in, right? But I would go to these vendor outreach events, and I would do my market research before, and I knew who the players were. I knew who the the companies that were getting like multi-million dollar contracts. And when I would go to these events, I would see them there, and I’d be like, Oh my god, that’s that person. And in my mind, I blew him up to be like, the President of the United States, but they were just like these normal people and they were there, and I could touch them and ask them questions and they would, you know, they weren’t that smart. I was like, Oh my god. So, that same exact thing happened in multi-family. That exact same process I modeled in multi-family, I got into the Warrior program and I’m like, Dude, this guy has a thousand units. This guy has four thousand units like, yes they had–
Rod: And he ain’t got nothing on me?
Oliver: Like, if they can do it, I can do it.
Rod: Thank you.
Mark: That’s what’s so great about real estate though. It’s been done so many times before us, you don’t have to be a genius, you have to do, just do what other people have done. That’s the cool thing about it, and that’s my favorite part.
Oliver: But if you’re not taking action, you’re just sitting back and you’re just like, letting your mind go off in this, in the wrong way, you’re imagining these people as like, untouchables, and that’s what happens like, when you go to those events, and you’re there, and you’re immersed with it, and then you sign up with the warrior program, and you’re there on a weekly basis, and you’re seeing and it’s tangible to you, it means so much to you. Like, you just start to become that other person that you’ve always wanted to be.
Mark: Yeah. Totally agree, man. Totally agree. And I think, yeah, that’s a big part of success there. So, for you, Oliver, what would you say is your most favorite and then your least favorite part about this business?
Oliver: Yeah. You know, honestly, yeah, you know, it goes back to like just the, you know, the work, right? So like, when I first got into the business, right? And I’m saying I first got in the business like I’ve been in real estate for 12 years but I multi-family, specifically, the last three years. Right? There’s a lot of work that needs to get done, right? And when I first got on, I was part of that person that was getting a lot of that work done like, we bought that 152 unit property, we’re executing on those 30 down units like, you had to be there. You had to be present. I mean, you’re you’re dealing with crews, painters, HVAC people, electricians, and, you know, with any renovation, there’s always gonna be problems, you know, like, you’re trying to make elevations match. You’re trying to make a building that’s 30 years old level when there’s issues, you know? So like, that’s the hardest part is the work, you know, like, getting that done and getting the nitty-gritty details lined up, so that you can be successful. So, that’s like the hard part, and then as you continue to grow and you see what what other partners are able to do, like, you know, I saw my partners, you know, awesome at like, talking to investors and being able to raise money, and then like, I tried to model that framework and make my own relationships with people. So, like, I love that part about the business because like, at that point, you’re really helping in changing people’s lives by like, getting them into the business and getting them into those deals that are, that provide tremendous return for people. And then, they’re not just returns on the front end, but then you get like all these tax advantages and benefits from all the depreciation that real estate investors get. So, it’s a double whammy, so like, my best part is, the best part is like, you know, helping other investors get into multi-family real estate. And then, the hard part is obviously like, getting the work done. I mean, and everybody’s got to do it. And then honestly, it teaches you the game, it teaches you the business, you know? You got to start there with like, getting your getting your hands dirty and seeing how the business works, because honestly, that’s the confidence that I use, that I gain, getting my hands dirty when I go raise money.
Rod: Let me ask you this. How did you overcome the fear, initially, you know, of going after a larger deal like that? You know, just to speak to that for a moment because I know a lot of listeners that, you know, fear comes into play. Fear comes into play for me, it comes into play for everybody. How did you push through it?
Oliver: Yeah, that’s a really good question, Rod. And for me, like, the way I overcame that fear of, because I was the guy that was investing in duplexes, you know, and like, and honestly, doing everything on my own, I had to actually like go to the site, and just see it, and be on it, and just to like, to feel it, and just be like, Oh, this is real. This is tangible. And then, I had to get around really good people, right? And then, as I got around really good people that had a track record, another thing that I use from my relationships with like, partners, like the bad ones, I knew that they were like, they used to be, used to bees don’t have no honey like, they used to be good at something, right? So, I want someone who’s right here, right now, getting results in today’s market. And when I’m talking with that person, they’re giving me confidence, they’re helping me overcome my fear of, and fear really comes in when you don’t know something. Right? So, if that person can help you see the potential and you can let your mind like, relax for a moment and go to that place where you can see the potential, then you can see what the opportunity is instead of focusing on what bad could happen or what bad could go wrong, you know?
Mark: And by the way, just really quickly on that topic of, you know, going out and kind of touching and feeling it and going to the properties, for people that can’t necessarily do that whether they’re just not, they don’t live in a good market or maybe there’s a little nervous to go out and, you know, actually make the phone calls, just do it locally. Pop on loopnet, I’ve done this even myself. Go around. You know, look for deals just in your current area. You don’t have to be a buyer, but just go out there, and touch it, and feel it, and talk to people, and learn. And then, when you’re gonna go under contract or LOI for that big property somewhere else or you’re gonna fly out or drive out to do it, you’re going to feel a lot more confident.
Mark: Right. And that’s a big piece of it jumping into it. But Oliver, I wanna hit you with one more here. What would you say to the listeners who, know that they wanna do this business, they wanna get into it, but they haven’t taken action yet? What’s some advice you give to them?
Oliver: So, everybody wants to be a beast until the time to do what beasts do. And then like, what do beasts do? They take one step at a time, and it’s like, it’s literally that simple when you really start to think about it. It’s not easy. I get it, life happens, things are pulling you from here to there, but it’s literally that simple where it’s like, What can I do today that’s gonna move me one step forward? What can I do tomorrow that’s gonna move me one step forward? And so, all these little bricks that you stack on and all of those decisions that are good decisions that are continuing to build your career in this space. And it’s one day after the next and doing it over and over and over again, and then three years you look back, and you’re like, Oh my gosh. I accomplished all that. But, yeah.
Rod: Great answer, man. Great, freaking answer. Sorry, I interrupted but that was really good, buddy.
Rod: It’s just those little steps, man. That’s how you make this happen. In fact, there’s a quote from Will Smith about building a wall that kind of ties into what you said and I’m gonna have to go look at it. It’s about putting that first brick and you’re good into the next brick, and that was just a great analogy. I wanna ask the question that I always ask the hitters that come on the show here, just because I want you guys to keep hearing it. If you could go back and tell your 20 year old self something, what might you do differently?
Oliver: So, if I could go back, I would tell myself, so like, when I was growing up, my mom used to love QVC. And I remember like, leaving my room and walking down to her room and I used to hear the music they used to play and I would just like, I would go in and she’d be like, watch with this big smile, watching QVC and like, she would basically be buying stuff from this QVC and then we get the knock on the door, we get the packages. So like, I was like, petrified of debt when I first like, when I was growing up, because I knew like, debt could be a bad thing if you use it the wrong way. So, I was like one of those guys that told myself, I would never have a credit card. I’m never, if I buy anything, it’s always gonna be cash, right? But like, what I’ve realized is that debt is extremely, extremely powerful, and especially when you use it to buy assets that can change your life. So, honestly, if I could tell my old self that I would tell myself to buy more assets that I could apply debt to, that would eventually, my tenants would be paying down my debt, and then they would just continue to grow my net worth, and grow my cash flow, and grow all the things that we all want in life that provide for our families, my wife, my daughter, my sisters, you know, that’s what I would tell myself.
Rod: Nice, brother. Nice. Now, you’ve got a new podcast, let me give it a shout out. What’s the name of it, buddy?
Oliver: It’s the Imperfect Entrepreneur, imperfectentrepreneur.com.
Rod: The Imperfect Entrepreneur, which is every entrepreneur, is imperfect.
Oliver: Yeah. No one’s perfect, right?
Rod: It’s right.
Oliver: You gotta just keep moving forward and chipping away at it.
Rod: I love it, brother. It is great to see your smiling face, my friend. I appreciate you adding value here on the show, and hope to see you when the world opens up and we can do a live event again, I know you’ll be there. But anyway, it’s great to see you, my friend. Give that little girl a hug for me and I’m sure we’ll talk soon, brother.
Oliver: Rod and Mark, I appreciate you guys so much, I really do. I appreciate the opportunity, honestly. I do.
Rod: All right. Good to see you, Oliver. Mark, I’ll see you later, buddy.
Mark: All right, see you guys.
Rod: See you.