Ep #385 – Kathy Fettke – Real Estate Market Cycle

Here is some of what you will learn:

  • Where we are in the market cycle
  • Pockets of opportunity
  • Understanding re-entitlements
  • The importance of business friendly environments
  • The importance of backup plans
  • Understanding bridge debt
  • Branding and Network building

To find out more about our guest: click here 

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Full Transcript Below:

Ep #385 – Kathy Fettke – Real Estate Market Cycle

Hi! I’m Rod Khleif. Each and every week I record an interview with a thought leader that I know you’re gonna get a ton of value from. Now here on YouTube are the video versions of my podcast, Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. Now to make sure you get the latest information please subscribe and hit the notification bell. Let’s get started. 

Rod: Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am super thrilled you’re here and I am super excited with who I’m interviewing today. She is a very good friend of mine. Her name is Kathy Fettke and she’s the co-CEO and co-founder of the Real Wealth Network. Now, if you don’t know who she is then you’re really not moving around much in the podcast world because she’s got two top ten shows; The Real Wealth Show and The Real Estate News for Investors Show, and they’re both, like I say, in the top ten. Super human being. She’s also a member of my multifamily boardroom mastermind. She gets interviewed all the time on CNN, CNBC, Fox, Wall Street Journal. She was named top 100 most intriguing entrepreneurs a couple years in a row. I could go on and on but she really needs no introduction. Well, she seems okay I think

Kathy: Thank you so much.

Rod: It’s such a treat to have you on. This is gonna be a lot of fun.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: So, you know, now Kathy, you know, is in lots of different asset classes and I think, you know, we can talk about some of that or, you know, I think it’d be fun just to dig in to, I know you just spoke at a friend of mine show in Denver on Market Cycle.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: So, maybe, let’s just go straight there. Let’s talk about where you feel we are in the cycle because you, you know, you’ve got your Real Estate News for Investors show so you’re always studying what’s happening in the market and, you know, that’s why these, you know, these networks are always leaning on you for, you know, counsel. So, let’s, why don’t you talk to us about how you feel like where we’re at.

Kathy: You bet. I mean, gosh. It’s a little bit terrifying isn’t it. First of all, I wanna say the sun is shining right on me. So, I hope it’s okay. We’re gonna see it changes as we go. It’s a little bit terrifying when you read the news, right? Because this is what I was telling people, I tell people, I’ve had four keynotes this month, and the first thing I say is, “I have a background on the media. My degrees in broadcasting. I worked at CNN and ABC and I’ve been at Fox.”

Rod: I didn’t know there. Wow.

Kathy: Yeah, in San Francisco when I, that was my early career. And, you know, back then, there wasn’t a whole lot of competition. There was a few cable shows but, you know, not the internet, not the news that we get bombarded with and so it’s very confusing today to understand what’s really going on because there’s so many opinions. I can tell you with all certainty that the way that news media makes money is by having an audience and the way you get an audience is by scaring people.

Rod: Scaring a lot of them. Yep.

Kathy: Scare them, you know, if it bleeds, it leads, and, you know, now, back when I started, there were just a few stations that were watched for news and today, there’s so many. So they have to get even scarier. They had to have crazy headlines that have you go, “Ahh”, you know, and if it’s like recession around the corner, well, you’re probably gonna read that article, right?

Rod: Right.

Kathy: So, we have to really look closer at the data and really just understand that it’s marketing. They’re just trying to get your eyeballs to be able to sell advertising. That’s the bottom line. So, when you really look at the data, the data. Now, I like single-family homes. I like multifamily. We build homes. We, you know, building a wine village. There are a lot of asset classes that I’m in but at the end of the day, I do love residential, whether it’s single or multifamily. So, we we’ve got a kind of look at the data there and the data is showing that we still have an incredible lack of supply of housing and with, mainly, with builders having a tough time ramping up after the last recession, they’re getting better and they’re building more but it’s expensive. And land costs have gone up, labor costs have gone up, regulations have gone up and being in the building industry, it’s been challenging over the past three to four years, for sure, to bring, to be able to bring on new inventory and yet, in the last 10 years, since the last recession, we have 25 million more Americans. Our population is growing. We have the highest record household growth. We’ve got wage growth. We’ve got, you know, growth. Lots of growth and not enough housing to keep up with it. And based on some of the studies that I look at, one is, it was metro study. There was a chart that showed that we may not be at equilibrium with supply and demand until 2025.

Rod: Wow.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Wow.

Kathy: So, when you hear all these things about a recession, there could be a recession potentially in some places, you know. There could be, it may be in the stock market they’ll be in effect but in housing, we’re not gonna be the problem this time at least in my opinion. You know, do your own research. Don’t take my word for it.

Rod: No. it’s a really valid, really valid point. You know, the other piece that’s happening as well as we become a renter nation, you know.

Kathy: Yes.

Rod: And, you know, Millennials, they don’t wanna be, they don’t wanna be tied down and so and there’s, god, I don’t know, that they’ll ever fix the affordable housing crisis in this country. So, …

Kathy: That’s a big opportunity, isn’t it?

Rod: Right. Yeah. You know, you’re talking about geographic specific pull backs and we saw a lot of that in 2008. Now, of course, I was in ground zero here in Florida. You know, I thought we were set for life and 8 million boomers getting old and getting cold, we’d be good. Same in California. And, of course, Nevada. And those were all ground zero for this, for that crisis. But what was interesting is, there were areas of the country that really didn’t pull back that much at all. So, ….

Kathy: Correct. Yeah.

Rod: You know, it is kind of strange now. I really like what you said about the fact that, you know, that pull back could be, you know, specific to different parts of our economy versus, you know, being and be driven by real estate like they were last time. I really, that really makes sense to me. It could be stock market driven and, you know, now, you know, there is some, of course, a lot of craziness in politics and we won’t go down that rabbit hole but, you know, who knows what’s gonna happen in November next year and, ….

Kathy: Correct.

Rod: You know, and you know, obviously, there are things that you worry about as catalysts for something to happen. You know, terrorism or things of that nature but, you know, what you just said really makes a lot of sense. So, let’s talk about, did you wanna expand on that anymore? Or, you know, if you pretty much said your piece on ….

Kathy: Well, I mean, there is so much fear. Like I said, I’ve been the keynote at four different events this month. I talked to a lot of people. There’s a lot of fear but when we see the headlines we have to know that there’s a positive and a negative to everything. So, if you could see the recession coming in 2008 and for some people they could see it. They could see that, “wow, these loans are gonna go bad”, “people aren’t gonna be able to pay them”. It was very predictable because if you pulled up, I was a mortgage broker at the time, and if you pulled up the data, you knew that these loans were gonna start resetting in 2008, 2007 ….

Rod: And, if you fogged the mirror, you could borrow money in 2006, okay? Which was, I mean, talk about a recipe and, you know, yes, anyway, sorry, I interrupted you. Please.

Kathy: But it was like, it was predictable but nobody could see it but it was obvious, you know. Now you look back and go well, of course, how could those people, that when I was lucky enough to have the Real Wealth show back then and I had Robert Kiyosaki on. And people like that, with years of experience, they’ve been through downturns, that’s the benefit you and I have as we get to interview these people that have been around maybe longer than we have and, you know, can see these things and for him, it was the most obvious thing in the world. And because he could see it coming, he was able to help, he was able to sell all the assets that wouldn’t survive that kind of a crash. So, on the show he said, “you know, you gotta sell everything in California” or at least he said, he was. He was selling all of his assets in California because in 2004, home prices in California and Florida too, went up almost 40% and that’s not

Rod: Listen, in 2005, in 2006, my net worth went up seventeen million dollars in one year.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Okay?

Kathy: That’s amazing.

Rod: I mean, it was crazy and then, I lost it all, of course, you know that story but …

Kathy: But that was what was happening.

Rod: He saw it. You have your show back then. When did you start your show?

Kathy: Oh man, I’m like an old wise sage in this business. Now they’re calling me a pioneer which I’m grateful for and I’m also like, man, anyway, it’s hard getting old but ….

Rod: You have a lifetime achievement on real estate and you know you’re in real trouble. That’s funny.

Kathy: So, yes. I was doing a show back then. It was not a podcast cuz that didn’t exist. It was in San Francisco on a radio, radio station.

Rod: Okay, okay. So, you had him on and he’s, like I’m selling my California stuff Wow. That’s amazing.

Kathy: He goes in writings on the wall. The price, you can’t have prices go up 40% with people who don’t know how to pay the loan back and think that’s gonna work out okay.

Rod: Wow.

Kathy: So, he sold everything. H showed me how in Texas at the time nothing was happening. They didn’t have crazy loans. They, the home prices were 26% undervalued. So he said he sold everything and bought multifamily and single-family in Texas. So I did the same, you know. Rich and I bought, like, nine properties in Texas. Those properties did amazing. We helped, we ended up helping hundreds if not thousands of people do the same thing and sell all their California holdings exchange into Texas and, like you said, because not all markets are the same at the same time, California had peaked but Texas had not. Texas was just at the beginning of its boom in 2005.

Rod: So, to drill down on what you just said, where we are right now? I mean, I will tell you. I, you know, we were actively, we’ve got LOIs on eleven properties. We’re kissing about 200 frogs to find a deal. Now, we’ve closed on a thousand doors, you know, this year or maybe even a little more than that, but the, you know, I’m scratching my head sometimes when I see what some of these properties are trading for right now, and I’m concerned if there’s any pushback at all. They’re not gonna get the returns they’re quoting them. They may not lose the property, they could, but they’re, I know they’re not gonna get the returns that they think they’re gonna get, so, you know, back to your point about geographic, I mean, do you feel like they’re, I mean, you know, are you willing to share publicly? If you do feel this way, or do you feel like there’s any pockets like that now? And, you know, based on what you know now?

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Any areas that ….

Kathy: Oh yeah.

Rod: That you think, yeah, we’ll talk about, talk about them

Kathy: There’s, lucky for you, you know. The area between Tampa and Orlando is the fastest growing in the country. And according to John Burns Real Estate Consulting, he consults home builders, like us, and he’s seeing that the demographic shift towards the southeast, it’s massive.

Rod: It’s happening. It’s starting. I was just ahead of my time.

Kathy: You were early.

Rod: With my thought process. Yeah.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Would put a show there. Yeah. So, ….

Kathy: You were just early and prices have gone up because of bad loans that’s all. But now, it’s heading that way but I’ll give you a kind of a difficult story I’m going through right now. We bought an apartment in, about a 250 unit apartment, in Mountain View across from Google. Great location, lots of job growth but it was expensive. Its California, you know. I know you would never ever ….

Rod: Alright, alright. I’m sitting down. I’m sitting down. What was the per door cost?

Kathy: Too much. I don’t even, I have it in front of me but it was high.

Rod: Alright, alright, alright, alright.

Kathy: But the business plan was not to do necessarily a, you know, we weren’t just going to renovate, we were going to re-entitle from 200 to 800 units ….

Rod: Oh wow.

Kathy: And then, tear the thing down and rebuild.

Rod: How exciting. Okay.

Kathy: Yeah and just, actually, just do the entitlement of that and flip it, basically.

Rod: Okay. Okay.

Kathy: And we have done a lot of entitlement deals like that. Yeah, we had an entitlement deal in Dublin where we bought an office building, an old office building. We knew that the city of Dublin wanted more housing. This is right outside of San Francisco, so we, basically, leased, we did a lease option on this office building in that time. The two-year option with another third year just in case. We were able to re-entitle it to residential lots. Tear down that office building and build, you know, build out some lots for builders and just sell that. We didn’t have to build. And we expected we’d get fourteen million dollars for it. We got twenty. So it was a very-very profitable thing so I love entitlement when it goes well. When it doesn’t go well, it’s really difficult so on this apartment building, it really, you know, the idea was to entitle it to eight hundred units, we did. Mountain View desperately needs housing. There’s, you know, no affordable housing in California and we’re 30% of this was going to be affordable, unfortunately, because in the last three years in California, it’s become the regulations for building have become worse even when they need more housing.

Rod: Wow.

Kathy: So, in the process, it took longer. Its take, it’s about a year delayed. We just put, we just got the entitlements just put the thing on the market and then our governor, Governor Newsom, passed a bill on rental control ….

Rod: On rent control. Oh my god.

Kathy: That we, that voters voted down last year. The very bill we’ve put it down, he passed. Like, how is that possible? Anyway, the bottom line is, the timing has been terrible. We’re not getting what we thought we were going to get and so, it’s just important to understand …

Rod: So, what’s the lesson? What’s the lesson? Let’s talk about the lesson in all that. Because …

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Wow. You know, to retitle something from two hundred to eight hundred doors that’s, you know, you’re back flipping all the way to the bank on that., So, ….

Kathy: Oh yeah.

Rod: So, you know, it ….

Kathy: So, what happen?

Rod: Who knew, you know? Who know, you know, like rakes, you know, I was just thinking, you know, I have an interest in the Airbnb phenomenon, okay? You know, I know there’s some people out there that are renting house, leasing houses and then, Airbnb and just making a lot of money, but, you know, that’s another industry that and I don’t wanna go too far down the rabbit hole either but where regulations can just literally put you out of business.

Kathy: Yeah. So, I would say, the really important and now, we don’t do business in California anymore but this project we got in when we were still able to make a ton of money. So, it was just in the last three or four years that these regulations have really-really gotten out of control. Which is ironic, right? This is a time when we’re seeing less regulation just not in California so, you know, the bottom line is, you really gotta pick your market and I know you do that. You go into markets that want your business. That are business friendly. Where there’s less regulation. We’re building homes now in places like Nevada, in Reno, and building apartments there, because they want us there.

Rod: Right, right.

Kathy: So, you gotta be….

Rod: And makes such a huge difference, you know.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: I mean, in getting your entitlement and getting your permitting and getting, you know, just so many benefits to being in a business friendly environment.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: But ….

Kathy: Exactly.

Rod: So, okay. So, that’s the lesson. Is really be more geographic focus, pay attention to where you’re, you know, the market and the sub market that you’re investing in. So, you say you’re buildings ….

Kathy: Yes, that’s one. 

Rod: That’s one.

Kathy: That’s one. I definitely wanna tell you the second important thing that I learned and I see this a lot and I know you do too. I know you’re conservative. I know you don’t wanna, you know, you don’t wanna go through what you went through before. I don’t wanna go through what I went through before. So, one of the things that I’m seeing and where we got stuck on this one, is short-term thinking. So, you know, a lot of people are buying apartments and, you know, planning on doing the, you know, deep value-add

Rod: Sure.

Kathy: And then, you know, in marketing it in a couple of years which is similar. We were just doing an entitlement but, you know, it’s not that different. You’re, basically, buying something, fixing it and trying to sell for more. It’s basically a flip. That’s what a lot of people are doing on the deep value-add. They’re not necessarily buying an apartment for the cash flow.

Rod: Right.

Kathy: They’re buying it to fix it, improve it and flip it. And so it’s important to understand the difference because a lot of people are saying, “I wanna buy apartments for cash flow”, which they should but they’re not buying them for cash flow. They’re buying them to do something in a couple of years and that’s fine as long as you have a back-up plan.

Rod: Yeah.

Kathy: So, in this case, ….

Rod: That’s the key.

Kathy: Right. That’s the key so let’s say, you can’t sell it for what you thought or rents didn’t go up but you bought it at a good enough price that you can still hold it.

Rod: Yes.

Kathy: And then, you didn’t over leverage. These are the things and I’m seeing too many people not having a back-up plan. I’m not gonna say any names but I met with a very big name. I don’t think anyone that’s been on your show but somebody who buys a lot of apartments and when we discussed this at dinner, at the VIP dinner, and I was like, “well, what’s your backup plan if these value adds don’t, you know, if you’re not able to sell them for what you’re expecting”, and he didn’t have one. And I said, “what’s your backup plan if you can’t get the financing in two years that your expecting? ”.

Rod: That’s the bigger one. That’s the bigger one.

Kathy: He had no plan.

Rod: So, he’s using, so, what he’s doing is he’s using bridge debt ….

Kathy: Yes.

Rod: Which, and by the way guys, bridge debt is the hard money lender equivalent of residential, okay?

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: So you when, you know, you’re in the single family space and you find a hard money lender and you’re paying 12% and five points, that’s what a bridge lender is, okay?

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: And I’ve heard so many horror stories and that’s the thing that, and Robert and I talk about this all the time, that’s the thing that is the most dangerous.

Kathy: It’s so dangerous.

Rod: Yeah. Because they can’t be financed, you know. There are bridge lenders and their business model is to end up owning property. Okay?

Kathy: Absolutely.

Rod: Yes.

Kathy: That’s how we get our deals, right?

Rod: Right.

Kathy: From people who can’t pay their note.

Rod: Right.

Kathy: That is what will take you down when you’ve got bad debt. If you, the thing about multifamily is, you don’t have to take those kind of risks.

Rod: Right.

Kathy: You can get long-term debt.

Rod: Right.

Kathy: The difference is people, you know, we’re, you know, we’re gamblers a lot of times. We want big returns.

Rod: Sure.

Kathy: If you’re going to hold an apartment for cash flow, what would you say, people should expect if it’s not, if we’re not doing the flipping model, we’re buying it for cash flow, what kind of returns should people be expecting?

Rod: I mean, I will tell you what we insist on and it’s hard to find. Like I told you before we started recording, we’re kissing 200 frogs right now but our minimum is 10% cash on – cash over a five-year period. That’s our starting point minimum. Now, the first couple of years we may only be at five, six percent and then, you know, but we make it up, you know, once our repositioning is done, but that’s our minimum return, you know, projections. You know, based on, a very conservative by the way, based on, you know, competitors and how we feel we’ll fall into the competitive landscape with our rents and the demographics and everything. What your answer?

Kathy: Well, you know, it just depends, like we were gonna build an opportunities on an apartment in the Reno area because there’s such a demand for jobs there.

Rod: Right.

Kathy: It really, you know, you have to hold it for ten years, so the return over ten years it’s not sixteen percent or, you know, some of these big numbers that we’re seeing in pro formas, it’s, the longer you hold it, it just kind of comes into its, it just becomes normal cash flow and the rate, you know, I guess what I’m saying is people need to kind of understand the difference between holding for cash flow and flipping.

Rod: Yeah.

Kathy: Because the returns are gonna be different and in the opportunity zone, I remember, I’m talking to the developer going, “These aren’t very exciting returns.” He’s like, “well, that’s the cash flow you get from an apartment. That’s how it works”,  you know. If you’re holding. If you’re holding. If you’re, you know, ….

Rod: You know, let me say this. I mean, you know, it’s and, you know, our IRR projections are typically over twenty and again, because we’re very-very picky and these are and our numbers are with very conservative loan-to-value. I mean, I’m thinking about our Texas asset worth sixty-five percent loan-to-value with those numbers. Okay?

Kathy: Awesome.

Rod: Yeah.

Kathy: That’s great.

Rod: So, and we’re very-very careful with bridge debt but, where was I going with this. Now, it you’re, you know, that’s the thing. I was just listening to Tim Ferriss, his podcast. He was interviewing a, astrophysicist. They were talking about how you can play with numbers and they were specifically talking about statistics but it made me, it tied me back into how people are, you know, you can make a pro forma look any way you want it to look ….

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: …. and so guys, those of you that are investing passively, you know, you’ve gotta learn this business. You know, come see me in LA. Kathy, you better be there by the way. I’m gonna be in LA January 17th, 18th and 19th, and you better come.

Kathy: It’s my anniversary and that is where we’re spending it. With you.

Rod: Okay, okay. Well then. Alright. By the way, Kathy’s in my mastermind and she’s so busy and she’s always getting pulled to every different direction. She’s missed the last couple, I mean, where she, you were sick at one of them.

Kathy: I was there and I was so sick. I couldn’t believe it.

Rod: And you have to go home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: Alright. Well, anyway, you know, the point is guys, if you’re thinking about investing, even passively, come to my events. You get a basic understanding of what you’re looking at. Don’t invest in something unless you have at least some basic understanding of what the heck it is. Don’t give someone your money. And I’m gonna tell you, there are operators out there, like Kathy just referenced, you know. This must be somebody using bridge debt thinking he can, you know, do whatever he’s gonna do and refinance or sell and if, you know, if you don’t have, if that rug gets pulled out from under you because of cap rate expansion or, you know, you don’t hit your mark, you’re gonna lose. Those properties are going down. They’re not just gonna not have the returns. They’re actually gonna get lost and so very-very important to have that understanding. But, yeah, by the way Kathy, I’m gonna do, and I did this in Baltimore, I’m gonna do an all-female panel on Saturday night at the LA event and I did this in Baltimore and it was, I mean, there were 10,000 doors on stage between three women and ….

Kathy: Wow.

Rod: I want you on that panel, Saturday night. So just know that.

Kathy: Okay. I will be there.

Rod: Alright. Anyway, so, ….

Kathy: Like I said, it was my anniversary and what a way to spend it.

Rod: Okay. Well, I will definitely announce that. I mean, fifty thousand years and you’re gonna hear that in a couple weeks but, alright, good. So, alright. So, we talked about market cycle and again, what you said is really compelling in that, you know, it likely it’s not gonna be a real estate driven recession because the all the markers are positive. You know, who knows again, stock market, but we also talked about, you know, a lesson you got as far as investing geographically. Let’s, you know, talk, you know, you are fantastic at getting investors. I mean, you’ve got 44,000 plus members in your network and ….

Kathy: Close to 50, 000.

Rod: That’s dated. No kidding. My bio has updated as well. You know, awesome. So, talk about methodologies for, localized methodologies for people to brand themselves and/or start building a network, like you’ve built? Give us, you know, I mean, you’re the queen of that. So, give some advice, you know, as to how somebody can, you know, if they wanna build their own network, what advice would you give them?

Kathy: I’ll tell you what, Rod. There’s never been a better time to make a name for yourself. It’s, you know, you came to me when you were just starting out and ….

Rod: Right?

Kathy: …. you know, and then, bam. I’m like, how did he?

Rod: Five downloads. Five downloads. And I’m about to hit seven million.

Kathy: I watch you go and I, you know, you came to me brand new, not knowing you’re doing and then, I turn around and your ratings are ahead of mine. So, you’re the one with ….

Rod: You’re right and you know, you know, it’s funny. I ask the question but listen, I don’t want to interrupt you. I just did a Facebook live on a version of this question but I wanna hear what you’ve got to say. So, you’re right. The time could never be better. Expand on that.

Kathy: It’s incredible. I was on a panel with five other women just a month ago and, you know, these women really honored me. I couldn’t believe it. All of them said that it was me that inspired them. Kind of like crushed the ceiling or whatever, broke through the ceiling that kind of made them feel like they could do it too and I had no idea. I was so really truly so honored.

Rod: Such a blessing when you hear that.

Kathy: It was so sweet. By the end of the panel, I was kind of sitting there the same way I sat with you going, “what? did I inspired but them? but then, they just took off.

Rod: Wow.

Kathy: And I’m talking about in just a couple of years. Some of these women are buying hotels, some are buying multifamily, some are doing senior housing and they just started and they’re killing it. And they all have a following, so I see this more and more with these people who come in and they just, they just crush it so quickly. So, it’s not actually that difficult. You have to be committed. You have to be passionate. You’ve gotta be willing to bring, you know, if you bring in experts like, you know, you start a podcast and bring Rod, you know, bring you on or me and ….

Rod: Right.

Kathy: You can build your following very-very quickly. I’m teaching my own daughter this …

Rod: What’s her vehicle gonna be? What’s her vehicle gonna be?

Kathy: She literally isn’t sure she wants to follow mom, you know, cuz that’s what kids do, someday she will. But she likes art. Now, I don’t know how she’s gonna make money in art but, you know, we’ve paid money for art so people do make money in art like you make money in anything but she’s focused on art. So, I said, “well just do a meet up and see what happens”. So she did and she had, you know, fifty people that wanted to come to her event where she was gonna teach them how to make, you know, something, and so, you know, it’s we’re in an environment today where people can find you pretty easily if you’re very targeted and you offer value and you care, you know.

Rod: I’m gesturing in the background because I’m so excited about what you’re saying and yes, care. Authentic. You really do care about helping them.

Kathy: Yes.

Rod: That’s so critical. And the key is adding value. If, you know, the people that add the most value on this planet are the most successful in the world, okay? And so, but the point is, if you go out there with the mindset of adding value, your success is inevitable. But you said something else that is really important. You said you need to be passionate and to be passionate you have to love it. And so guys, if you’re listening, if you don’t love whatever it is you’re doing, for God’s sakes, go do something else, this is not a dress rehearsal, this thing called life, okay? So, you know, and if you don’t love it now, associate, pleasure with it and learn to love it or go do something else because, you know, that’s the only way you’re gonna be passionate about it. You truly have to love it and that’s the only way, the only way you’re gonna inspire other people to invest with you or get involved with you is if you’re passionate about it. So, it all goes back to making sure that you really love what it is you do. Would you agree with me?

Kathy: Absolutely. I mean, there’s too many obstacles, you know, I saw you had the tornado situation.

Rod: Oh yeah. We had 101 door. You know, all the families had to move. Horrific. Yeah. ….

Kathy: That’s very similar to, you know, my experience with our multifamily in Indiana where we had the gas leak.

Rod: Gas issue. Yeah.

Kathy: Yeah. So, you know, if you don’t love it, it’s hard to get through those kinds of difficulties.

Rod: Yep.

Kathy: You know, you just have to be able to roll of your sleeves and dive in and fix it and love that even, you know.

Rod: Yeah.

Kathy: And not everybody does so, you know, dive in, understand whatever it is you’re doing. You know, when I started and I’m sure when you started you were reading everything, you were getting training, you were going to mentors, I mean, ….

Rod: Sure.

Kathy: I’ve got books. I’ve got books on my desk right now. I’m still learning. You know, obviously, looking around. I’ve got stacks of books and, you know, yeah, that’s the, learning is earning, bottom line. You know, it’s funny and back to adding value, you know, when I started mine, I used to tell people, “I’ll never sell you anything.” All I care about is, I want you to succeed and, you know, and I wanted to get that message out there. And, of course, you know, I’m not a liar but, you know, that wasn’t my sign, you know, once they hit a million downloads, kind of like, “hey, I better do something with this, other way I’m a moron.” But, you know, I, actually, did the truth of it is, I started taking free phone calls from listeners and I got so much freaking pleasure from that. And like you do, we get, so rewarding. I’ve got a wall behind me with hundreds of thank you cards. You know, we get so much pleasure out of, you know, adding value and loving what it is we do, you know, it’s just incredible blessing.

Kathy: You are loved lot of people, Rod. It’s really amazing.

Rod: Well, likewise. Likewise. 44, fifty thousand people in your network, good lord. Well, guys, back to what she was talking about in that question about how to build, you know, it’s and this is, I did a Facebook live on this, you know, yeah, there’s meetups, there’s podcast, there’s LinkedIn, there’s Instagram, there’s Facebook, you know, I’ve got, you know, 30 almost 31,000 people in my Facebook group on multifamily. You know, there’s no, we’ve never lived at a time where there are so many opportunities to create reach.

Kathy: Yeah.

Rod: But the key is passion and adding value.

Kathy: Tha’s right.

Rod: And if you go at it from that angle, you are, your success is inevitable. So, ….

Kathy: Yep.

Rod: Kathy, I really appreciate you being on the show. It’s such a treat to talk to you and, you know, you always had incredible value. Guys, check out her podcasts. She’s a hitter. Real Wealth Network and then, The Real Estate News for Investors and I can’t wait to see you in January.

Kathy: Thank you. I can’t wait.

Rod: Alright, take care. See you later.

Kathy: Take care. Thank you so much.

Rod: Alright. Bye, bye.

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