Ep #151 – Tim Shiner – Owner 153 Multifamily Units – Author: 50 Things They Didn’t Teach You In School!
Here’s some of what you will learn:
- Why you should pay close attention to deals in areas you are not familiar with.
- The type of areas that would be great for 1 bedroom apartments.
- The criteria to go by when checking demographics.
- Why investing in a town that has under 5k population is risky.
- What to pay attention to when the $/door is low.
- Why a 5 year balloon is risky at the current markets state.
- How and why you should learn from all of your failures.
- When you focus on failure and not your goals, you will not be able to achieve your goals.
- How to find your “Why”
- If you want to talk to someone you aspire, figure out a way to add value to them.
- Why you should have the mindset of giving.
- How to avoid negativity.
- Why you should invest in yourself and not others.
- Continue to learn, no matter how skilled you are.
- You want to steer a conversation with questions because you want to learn.
- How a Thank-you note can cause a huge impact.
- To be successful, it’s a process. It doesn’t happen overnight.
- Why you should create multiple revenue streams.
- The best revenue streams to have.
- Why you should learn from the competition.
Full Transcript Below:
Ep #151 – Tim Shiner – Author: 50 Things They Didn’t Teach You In School! Rod Khleif
Welcome. This is the Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing Podcast. This is where you’ll learn strategies to help you achieve lifetime financial freedom through real estate investment. Your host, Rod Khleif, has owned over 2,000 homes and apartments. And he brings experts in all aspects of real estate investment and management on to the show. Now, here’s your host, Rod Khleif.
Rod Khleif: Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I am thrilled you’re here. I’m really delighted to interview the guy I’m interviewing today. Basically, cause he’s cool, and he’s generous, and he’s just an overall nice guy. I’m excited to get into his history, his book, and how he can add value to you guys, ‘cause he absolutely can add value to you.
His name is Tim Shiner. He’s author of a book called, The 50 Things They Didn’t Teach You In School, which is like makes my hair stand on end because it’s something that I’m very passionate about. How little you actually learn in school, at the important things: the life things, the financial things, the entrepreneurship, and all these things that they don’t teach in school.
This book really resonated with me. Just excited to have you on the show, brother.
Tim Shiner: Rod, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It’s funny, you and I were talking off mic a little bit, I’m kinda gonna be the guest that tells you what not to do. Like when they bring the prisoner to school, to try to scare them straight.
Rod Khleif: [laughs] I love it. Yes. Yeah, I was asking Tim about his multi-family experience and his experience to date, has not been a positive one. I said, “You know what, let’s share it anyway because there’s some fantastic lessons in it.
Let’s talk about your portfolio. When you bought it? What you did with it? And let’s go ahead and dig in, right there then.
Tim Shiner: Sure. I had 153 doors. Most of those doors are multi-family. I have other stuff that’s done real well. So I have been somewhat successful in real estate in a decent net worth. Let me get that out of the way, before people just turn off the podcast going, “This guy knows what not to do. I already know…”
Rod Khleif: This guys… By the way, Tim just found out about my Teddy Bear Brigade and my Backpack Brigade. We did 1,100 teddy bears last Friday, to give to the local police department for their officers to put in their vehicles. We did 1,600 backpacks the very next day to schoolchildren, filled with school supplies. He instantly wrote a check for a thousand dollars. This guy is a hitter. He’s a player and he’s got a big heart.
Anyway, let me just interject that right out of the gate. And thank you publicly for your incredible and generous donation.
Tim Shiner: Rod, you’re doing the hard work. Sending you the check is fairly easy.
Rod Khleif: No. Thanks, brother.
Tim Shiner: My goal was always make money in real estate. I bought my first house when I was 19 and 10 months old. To me that was a pretty big accomplishment because I moved from Chicago to Dallas at 18 and six months. Then, a very short time after that, I bought my first house.
I’ve always been passionate about real estate. In the middle of recession, just like Rod, he had some challenging times in the middle of recession; I could no longer buy head… to say the least.
[chuckles]
Tim Shiner: I could no longer buy a single-family home. Which was a blessing ‘cause it got me into multi-family. So I got in multi-family, right in the middle of recession.
The first one I bought was a 24-unit apartment complex. But a couple of things that I’ve learned, one is, I bought it in a small rural town in Kentucky, and because I’m an anti-drug, anti-thug type of guy, we did background checks and if they every had a drug problem on premise or a police problem on premise, they’re gone.
Well, when you’ve got a small pool of people to grab from, and you’re starting to kick out the druggies and the thuggies, then you don’t have as much left to rent from. It was a little bit of challenge on that.
Rod Khleif: So you had trouble keeping it full.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Let me ask you a question, did you evaluate that market before you bought? Did you look at the trends? Did you look to see if population was growing? Income was growing? Jobs were growing? Did you do all that or did you just jump in?
Tim Shiner: I didn’t. here’s what… I had a promotional products business in that town, and so, coming from Dallas, Texas going up there, everything looked like a bargain. Everything looked like cash flow city.
Rod Khleif: Oh yeah… Right.
Tim Shiner: So I was all excited, and the other thing is the banks up there, they appreciated me. My financial statement, or my net worth was a lot better than 99% of people in town. So money was easy. It looked affordable. It looked cash flowing…
Rod Khleif: So it was easy to finance, yeah. It was easy to finance. In those small towns, you can sometimes get 90% financing guys.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: I mean, 85, a lot. But correct me if I’m wrong, this was like a population of 4,800, if I recall?
Tim Shiner: In one town, 4,800…
Rod Khleif: So very small… yeah.
Tim Shiner: That was a mistake. So I guess what… I see these California investors come into Texas, and everything looks affordable in Texas, compared to California. So all I’m saying is be careful, ‘cause I was basically the California guy going to Kentucky.
Rod Khleif: [laughter]
Tim Shiner: I was the Texas guy that thought it was a good deal… The next thing that I learned the hard way was that first complex was 24 units, and they were all one-bedroom, one-bath. The challenge with that, as we all know now is, somebody gets… marries a girl with a child or they have a child, or whatever else, you’re gonna lose that renter.
The guy I bought that complex from, had other real estate holdings, so obviously, he shed the thing that wasn’t as good. And I simply didn’t know the right questions to ask, and didn’t think it through. So hopefully, someone in your audience can learn from that mistake.
Rod Khleif: Well sure, and guys, don’t avoid one-bedrooms but if it’s all one-bedrooms, you better be in a location that thrives with one-bedrooms, i.e. students or retired people, possibly. You need to buy based on you demographic, and not just on value, very, very important that you pay attention to that.
Unit mix, it’s always the best way to go, ideally, majority may be two-bedrooms and then maybe some threes and some ones. In most markets, that’s the best way to go.
So you didn’t check the demographics, and I’m not trying to beat you up. I just wanna point these out to my listeners.
Tim Shiner: No. Hey, I’ll take a hit.
Rod Khleif: Now, so you didn’t check the demographics, because guys, we’re always looking for emerging markets. You can go on bestplaces.net or census.gov or citydata.com, and you take a look at population, you take a look at income, and you take a look at jobs. If they’re not, at least flat-lined, ideally going up, that’s a huge red flag.
Then secondly, a small town of under 5,000, very risky. Very risky, for a lot of reasons. Typically, there’s usually only one or two large employers which is very risky. You don’t want any one-horse towns, but like you said in some of those rural areas in Kentucky… I don’t wanna name states…
Tim Shiner: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: ‘Cause it’ll piss people off…
Tim Shiner: Exactly.
Rod Khleif: I’ll get hate mail… But there’s a lot of meth going on, there’s a lot of drugs, especially in rural areas. That’s something you have to contend with. So you have to make sure you’ve got enough of the employment base to deal with it, enough of a demographic.
I know you were able to sell it.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: You did okay. Did you buy other properties there as well?
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Talk about some of the other stuff you did.
Tim Shiner: Back on that one, real quick. I got blinded by the $30 a door getting in, you couldn’t build it for $30 a door and so…
Rod Khleif: 30,000 obviously.
Tim Shiner: Yeah, sorry. 30,000.
Rod Khleif: 30,000
Tim Shiner: 30,000 a door is what I got blinded by. Just per cost per door is nice, but just like you said, everything else is probably more important. I’d rather pay 50 a door in a growing area, or 60 a door if…
Rod Khleif: No question. I talked about a deal in Eaton, North Carolina. It was 15,000 a door, 40 units. I’m like, “Holy cow!” I mean we were ready to get on a plane and go. Then we talked about one-horse towns. Well, that horse had died. Okay.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: It was a brewery, and it had gone out of business. I think it’s back in business now… But the numbers were so ugly.
Tim Shiner: Sure.
Rod Khleif: So thank you for sharing that; very, very valuable information for my listeners.
Tim Shiner: Okay. So on that first 24-unit, I ended-up doing the owner finance for 10 years, just to get in it. Then I ended up getting bank financed out of it real quick, so that was neat.
The next one I bought was 27 units, and that was an owner-financed deal also. I think the thing I’d say to your listeners… But think about it. They’ve got less sellers in that town, because of the small population, you got less people that want to be in this business, and less people that can qualify.
So that was an owner financed deal too. Then the one after that, was actually an owner finance… No, I’m sorry, it was 48 units, and with four different buildings. It’s a very nice property, and that I ended up doing bank financing with.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Tim Shiner: That was fun. And then the final one I bought was kinda neat, 24 units but it also had a trailer park along side of it. I had a mix of some trailers I owned and for whatever reason, I’ve always wanted a trailer park my whole life…
[chuckles]
Rod Khleif: It’s a manufactured home community, please. Okay. Let’s be proper. Let’s have proper decorum… We love mobile home parks too. No question…
Tim Shiner: Rod, you didn’t see mine. Mine was a trailer park.
Rod Khleif: Was it. Okay.
[laughter]
Tim Shiner: So I appreciate you trying to put lipstick on that thing…
Rod Khleif: [laughter]
Tim Shiner: But what was cool about that is we had lot leases and then we converted the lot leases to buying mobile homes and sticking them on there. So I felt like my core investment of the 24 units was great, and then adding all these trailers, was a great way of building more revenue.
Rod Khleif: Okay. Okay.
Tim Shiner: I learned a lesson on that which is great.
Rod Khleif: Well I know you signed a non-disclosure so you can’t talk about…
Tim Shiner: Sure.
Rod Khleif: You can’t go into detail and I get it. Guys, if you wonder why he’s being vague, that’s why.
Tim Shiner: Yeah. I’m not trying to be.
Rod Khleif: He just recently sold the portfolio.
[00:10:00]
Rod Khleif: And because when you sign an NDA, you can’t blab. But so the lessons really were demographics.
Tim Shiner: Sure.
Rod Khleif: The lessons were size of the population, and distance from you as well. Now, distance is usually not a hurdle if you get a good management company. I know they were 750 miles away from you, you said, prior to recording here.
Tim Shiner: Sure.
Rod Khleif: I don’t want that to discourage anybody, because if you do your homework and you find a good property management company or a broker. If it’s a smaller property and you have a broker that looks over things, then you’ve got somebody that gets a break on the rent that keeps an eye on the building. You can absolutely do it at a distance. But you can’t beat the demographics. You can’t go against the surf.
Tim Shiner: Rod, I’m totally not a victim mentality type of guy or a blame guy. I shoulder all the blame, and I have other successful businesses where I’ve had people for 17, 18 years. So I know how to run businesses, I know how to treat people. It’s just the challenge was, I just couldn’t find a rock star. And trust me, I kept looking for a rock star on the management…
Rod Khleif: Oh, in the local economy, I had the same thing happen in Memphis. I had a property manager embezzle 100 grand from me, and now I’m gonna get hate mail from all the Tennesseans again, ‘cause I bring up Memphis once in a while.
[chuckles]
Rod Khleif: I had a huge seminar there. But anyway, there’s no question that you’re a great businessman. It’s so easy to get blinded, that’s why this lesson is so important. It’s so easy to get blinded by these low cost per door, or maybe seller financing that just looks fantastic, and you can get into a deal, and maybe you sign on for the seller financing but you only do a five year balloon, which is dangerous with the contraction coming.
Guys, eyes wide open. That’s the key here. Have eyes wide open. Don’t rush. Do your homework. But you came out okay. It just wasn’t the homerun you thought it was.
Tim Shiner: No.
Rod Khleif: I mean… Right?
Tim Shiner: And that’s fine.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Tim Shiner: There’s plenty of stuff that you do the work and it doesn’t work. My high-end residential is doing great. I will definitely buy multi-family again.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: I just you know… I went up the plate and struck out a few times. Now, I know what pitch to look for, and that’s how it goes.
Rod Khleif: And it’s, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a shiny penny guy like I am. I’ve started 22 businesses, and some of them worth 10s of millions and most have been spectacular seminars. I call them seminars ‘cause I always learn.
Tim Shiner: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: But failures, spectacular failures… Alright, let’s talk about your book, brother, because it is awesome and you’ve got some great chapters in here that I want you to expand on ‘cause you can really add a lot of value to my listeners with some of these stuff.
I’ve got your book open, and I’ve highlighted some…
Tim Shiner: Rod, you’re pretty good at this. You segue right to the number one thing on the cover of the book, which is Mistake and Failures Are Mandatory.”
Rod Khleif: HA! And I heard Sarah Blakely, who’s the billionaire of Spanx, I met her at a workshop that I was at. She said, her dad told her, what did you fail at today, everyday. So I’ve been texting my son. Driving him crazy. “What did you fail at today?”
Tim Shiner: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: He doesn’t respond.
Tim Shiner: I love that.
Rod Khleif: But I love that too. That’s so awesome. So let’s talk about that first.
Tim Shiner: What I found is, and I wrote it on the book is, my wealthy successful friends, talk about failure openly and honestly. And they talk about what they learned. My friends that haven’t been successful in business, they wanna hide it. They want to stick it in a corner. They wanna act like it’s not there.
In my book, I talked about some things that I’ve failed at, and I’ve had people come back on, “Thank you for talking about that because I keep focusing on my failed marriage.” Or, “I keep focusing on a bad deal I did and I can’t get it out of my head. It’s just rolling around in there.”
You and I are both on the same page where you’re gonna make mistakes. You cannot avoid them. You got to just do it.
Rod Khleif: Right. No, question. Let me add to that because what you said, you talk to people and they say, “I can’t, I focus on my bad marriage. I focus on this.” Guys, where focus goes, energy flows.
Tim Shiner: I like that.
Rod Khleif: So focus on what you want, okay. This is why; you’ve got goal setting in your book. I’m a huge proponent for goal setting, and getting pictures of your goals. And writing down why your goals are a must so that when you get your butt kicked, ‘cause you will. I promise you, you’re gonna get your nose bloodied, that you focus on why you’re doing what you’re doing.
I lost 50 million bucks, so Tim, I got your ass beat. I’m sorry but I do…
Tim Shiner: [chuckles] You do. You’re one-upping me there.
Rod Khleif: And I’m sorry that I am. But I will tell you, I love that line. Those of you that have kids, tell your kids, “What did you fail at today?” So they go out and try new things. I protected mine, and I regret it, honestly. My kids are successful, and I love them, and all that but I do regret not…
I just love that when I heard Sarah talk about her dad. And look, she went from $5,000, she’s a billionaire, owns a company 100% herself.
Tim Shiner: That’s awesome.
Rod Khleif: Kudos to her.
Tim Shiner: Chapter 41, ‘cause you just segue, and as good as a late night DJ over there…
Rod Khleif: [laughs]
Tim Shiner: Is Find The Why.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Tim Shiner: To me, the why is so important. I’ve got a kid working for me; he’s trying to buy his first house. He had some goal that he wanted to sell 50 websites because we’ve got the ability to do that and we got some secret sauce on it. And I said, “Okay, let’s break it down. So you’re making 500 a website.” I said, “You wanna buy a house, you can get a 3% down on a $200,000 house.
Rod Khleif: You backed him into it.
Tim Shiner: Exactly. So six grand, now all you have to do is sell 12 websites. I said, “Now that’s your why.” And I go, “If I was you, I’d mark-off 12 and start X-ing them off so you know where you go.”
Rod Khleif: Now I’m gonna segue like a late-night DJ…
Tim Shiner: [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: Into the fact that your goals have to be measureable and concise. They have to be measurable and that’s what you just did for that young man. Beautiful. That brings reality to it and it’s a great way to approach your goals. Guys, those of you listening, back into what you have to do every month, every week, every day, every hour to get you to that goal. That’s awesome.
Another chapter that you’ve got, that I wanted to ask you about is, Encourage The Next Generation.”
Tim Shiner: Yep.
Rod Khleif: I just love that, and so important.
Tim Shiner: Well, I can tell that you weren’t born with wealth…
Rod Khleif: No.
Tim Shiner: And it didn’t come easy for you, and neither did I. But listeners, take that as a blessing, ‘cause I’m not hoping to inherit anything when I was younger.
I knew right from the get-go if it’s going to be, it had to be me; that famous saying. So that got me on goals, and I’ve had a very fortunate life. But I’m always trying to encourage any young person.
Someone hits me up on an email or anything, I’m gonna take the time to call them or communicate with them, because I’ve been so extremely fortunate to have great mentors. I got a little saying that mentors come before money. Just like it does in the dictionary.
So if there’s somebody you wanna learn from, wash their car, go buy them a cup of coffee, do whatever it takes.
Rod Khleif: Add value to them in some way.
Tim Shiner: Exactly.
Rod Khleif: Yup.
Tim Shiner: So many people want the help but they’re not willing to do something. I’m blown away because about half the time, I’m very positively surprised; people are like, “What can I do for you? Can I buy you lunch? Can I buy you a cup of coffee? Can I donate to your charity?
What can I do for you?” And typically, charitable guys like you and I, man, if you donate to my charity, I’ll give you whatever you want.
Rod Khleif: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Tim Shiner: I’m all about the… 100% of money of this, goes to the food bank in Keller, Texas.
Rod Khleif: No kidding.
Tim Shiner: Oh, yeah. I’m not making a nickel.
Rod Khleif: 100%?… You guys hear that? This book, 50 Things They Didn’t Teach You In School… Go buy it. All the money goes to the food bank. I mean I didn’t know that brother. I’m so impressed.
Tim Shiner: Yeah. It goes to Amazon.
Rod Khleif: By the way, that’s Chapter 2- The Joy of Generosity. I was gonna say that for the end but I got to talk about it now. Because guys, two things, one, like Tim just said, go into every kind of relationship. Not even just a mentor relationship. Go into give, not to get. And you will get; you’ll get tenfold. But you have to have the mindset to go in to give.
Then secondly, I know you’ve heard the adage, what you give comes back tenfold; I’m here to tell you it’s absolutely the truth. In every, area of your life, be it love, be it happiness, be it financial, be it time. Love it, brother. Love it.
Tim Shiner: Rod, it’s funny ‘cause Zig Ziglar was one of the first books I read as a young man. If you help enough people get what they want, you’re gonna get what you want. And I’m sitting there driving a Saab 900 listening to a cassette tape of Zig, and being an outside sales guy from Chicago area, and I’m like, “I don’t have anything, and you’re telling me, we got to go give you something, Rod?”
I’m like, “I don’t have anything. I’m running an apartment, driving an old used car, and you’re telling me I got to help you out first.” But I swear to God, I live my life that way. If you bring enough value, people…
Rod Khleif: The secret to success is adding value. The more value you add, the more successful you’ll become. The more you give the more you get. The most successful people on the planet, give more than anyone else.
Tim Shiner: I totally agree.
Rod Khleif: There’s a reason for that guys. Get the memo here. There’s a reason for this. And it’s so funny, you had a Saab 900, me too.
Tim Shiner: Oh yeah? Did you, Rod?
Rod Khleif: I actually had to sell it one week to make payroll. This is back when I was in my 20s, and dumber than I am now. But anyway… Awesome.
Let’s talk about leverage. Okay, this is real estate related, and you guys, I would mess… Guess most people on my show know what it means, but I wanna hear your definition.
Tim Shiner: Sure, I love leverage. If you’re gonna save money, it’s just gonna take forever, and you can’t get there. So I look at leverage as trying to get good debt. So when I first learned about leverage, a buddy of mine, Pat Nolan down in Corpus Christi, Texas.
He had an alarm company, and I’m in the alarm industry. He borrowed against the assets of his alarm company, to build his first storage facility. He now owns 13 of them and he’s worth a lot, a lot of money.
Rod Khleif: Wow.
Tim Shiner: But I was Mr 15-Year Note, driving a used Honda Accord, Mr Pay-it-Off, pay it up.
Rod Khleif: Pay it off, free and clear. Safety conscious. Yeah.
Tim Shiner: Zero credit card debt.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: It’s hard to shift a guy like that to understand leverage. I always joke, I’m like, “How do you rob eight banks and stop?”
[00:20:02]
Tim Shiner: ‘Cause if you’re a bank robber, you can’t stop robbing banks. If you’re a conservative guy like I was, it’s hard to buy into leverage.
I learned leverage through my friend. I saw what he did with borrowing against a business to get into storage. And the he re-leveraged again, because that, what he borrowed against his business was 20% down on the storage. Well then the next storage unit got full, and then he borrowed against the storage and the security, and got the next one.
For me, as a young guy coming from nothing, trying to play it safe, that seemed like risky business. But when he really, really spelled out to me, I really understood it. If you think about it, if something goes up 10%, and you debt reduction it 5% in a year, wouldn’t you rather a hundred million of it versus a million, or 10?
Rod Khleif: Hello. Hello, just do the math guys. You pay cash for something versus leveraging something the returns are exponentially different. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So Chapter 13 – One In 98, I want you to expand on that. I loved it when you told me.
Tim Shiner: Sure. Yeah, so it’s almost like the temperature of the human body, is 98.6% of Americans will never have the net worth of a million dollars. That’s excluding the equity in their home. That’s a little caveat, because think about it; a lot of people in California, their millionaires ‘cause of equity in their home.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: Let’s take a high 90 number. My whole point of that is if there’s a 100 people in the room and two are going to be millionaires and 98 aren’t, and now we’ve got 98 voices in our ear versus listening to the two millionaires. That’s kinda how life is.
Yeah, I got another chapter that says, Watch Out For the Vice and Advice. Be careful who you’re taking information from. I mean, you can talk…
Rod Khleif: Stand guard at the door to your mind.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Okay.
Tim Shiner: Exactly.
Rod Khleif: That’s very important.
Tim Shiner: It’s funny, I did a talk earlier this week and I basically said, put a bouncer in front of your mind. If you got a voicemail that you know that’s gonna be negative, just erase it.
Rod Khleif: Exactly.
Tim Shiner: Not kidding. Just erase it. You cant let that stuff rattle around your head.
Rod Khleif: Turn off the news. I don’t watch the news anymore. Sometimes, I go on just for a minute for amusement; depending on which way… If I wanna see blue or red…
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: But other than that, I don’t even, you know, I don’t even… That’s awesome.
Tim Shiner: But back to the One in 98.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: It’s gonna be tough to be a millionaire. It should be tough to be a millionaire. And once you are a millionaire, you’ll appreciate that you are.
But the other thing is, if you get it too quick, you’re probably gonna lose it like a lottery ticket winner, or a kid star or something. Because you didn’t build the building blocks of lessons that you’ve learned, so that you could keep it forever.
I mean, you’ll never lose your wealth ever again. I won’t either.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: Only because I’m so battle scarred from lessons. From really, really expensive lessons, that you know what you’re doing now. So that’s why mentors, I’m circling back on a lot of things. But that’s why mentors are important too, because those mentors are successful people, who have failed more than you and I. That’s why we know their names. Let’s go find out what they’re doing.
Rod Khleif: Right. No question.
Tim Shiner: Like them or don’t like them, I’m reading Jerry Jones’ autobiography.
Rod Khleif: Nice.
Tim Shiner: Because he got elected in the hall of fame. Oh my god, he was struggling in the ditch a hundred times, before that, I read Phil Knight’s autobiography.
Rod Khleif: Oh, Nike. I love it.
Tim Shiner: Oh, my god… So don’t think, “Oh, Phil Knight, he’s a billionaire and it was easy. It wasn’t easy for anyone.
Rod Khleif: Sarah Blakely used to go into Nordstrom’s and sell the stuff there. And she’d put her stuff in the front of the rack and now she’s a billionaire. I’ve heard John Paul DeJoria, the guy that did Paul Mitchell hair products… Door to door hair salons, then he did Patron; two billion dollar companies. Took Patron, liquor store to liquor store, to bar to bar and…
There is no get-rich-quick. Guys, you become very wealthy if you put in the time and you focus. You surround yourself with the right people. You find mentors like you just said, Tim. Awesome stuff. Awesome stuff.
Alright, Chapter 14 – You Bet.
Tim Shiner: This is real simple. Bet on yourself.
Rod Khleif: Love it.
Tim Shiner: When you bet on yourself, at least if you screw up, you know who to blame. ‘cause it seems like whenever I blindly give, and I won’t anymore, but in the past, I blindly gave money to open up a restaurant, or two of these other crazy stuff.
My whole thing is, I need it to be leveraged, and I need to know what I’m doing, and I need it to be somewhat passive, like real estate. I don’t wanna loan money for a restaurant to some guy that I don’t know particularly well.
In an industry, talking about doing your homework like low demographic areas, that restaurant business is horrible. What nine out of 10 fail?
Rod Khleif: The statistics are terrible. I’ve a friend that just invested in one in Tampa. I cringed when he told me. The thing of it is, the bottom line is, it’s okay if you’re gonna do it. You either align yourself with an expert or you become the expert. Just don’t dabble. Okay?
And I’m totally against giving my money to somebody else.
Tim Shiner: You bet.
Rod Khleif: I just am. Unless you’re really are aligned with an expert, it’s dangerous. And so many people like will invest in the stock market and then rely on the advice of a stockbroker that frankly got trained more in sales than in studying the stock market.
Tim Shiner: Yep.
Rod Khleif: There’s great advice too. Alright, I love Chapter 23 – School Is Always In Session. Love it. Please expand on it.
Tim Shiner: Okay. So you’re doing well, I’m doing well. A bunch of the listeners are doing well. So what? [chuckles]… I mean, I’m reading Jerry Jones’ autobiography. I’m reading Phil Knight’s autobiography. I’m listening to podcasts. I’m watching webinars.
I love learning. I love learning something new. I love being in a room where people are far more wealthy than me. Just get a piece of duct tape and listen. You know what I mean?
Rod Khleif: Thank you.
Tim Shiner: It’s fun being in a room where people know so much more than you do about something. I just feel like I’m getting a free MBA in life.
Rod Khleif: Love it.
Tim Shiner: And so that’s School Is Always In Session.
Rod Khleif: No, I love it.
Tim Shiner: Don’t think you’re done.
Rod Khleif: I’ve got this drawer, ‘cause I didn’t go to college. I actually admit that publicly. I don’t think I’ve done that before. I didn’t go to college but I’ve got a drawer that has the lanyards from all the events that I’ve gone to, and I’ve got… I’m going to do an episode on that. I’m gonna bring it in here and hang it.
Tim Shiner: That’s cool.
Rod Khleif: Hang it off my arm here. I mean, there’s hundreds. I’m a member of three very expensive Masterminds; high level. Obviously, people like the people I’ve mentioned here.
So guys, learning is earning. There’s no destination. It’s a continual process. I remember my son coming up to me when he was nine years old. I had lived in this $8 million testament to my ego on the beach. And I had hundreds of houses and multi-family units, and the Maserati and all the stuff.
I told him I was going to a real estate seminar, and he’s like, “Why are you going to a real estate seminar?” And then I was able to give him the lesson that I’m talking about publicly here and that is that you have in your book. You never stop learning.
Tim Shiner: Rod, that’s funny. I was on a plane, reading a book about marketing. I really love marketing.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: A colleague of mine came up and goes, “Why are you reading about marketing? You’re the best marketing guy I know.” And what I was always think about is why is a jogger always skinny. He’s skinny because he’s jogging.
Rod Khleif: [laughs]
Tim Shiner: And I’m reading marketing because I want to be a better marketer.
Rod Khleif: I’ll bet I’ve got 200 books on real estate investing in my library; that I purchased in the last three years.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Or four or five years. Seriously… There you go. Awesome. Chapter 32 – Ask Questions. And that’s so funny because I just texted my son this morning that said, “The best human traits you can have is curiosity.” I send him these inspirational texts. Awesome.
Tim Shiner: Ask Questions. I was lucky. I was a good bartender, and I got hired to be a sales guy when I was about 20 years old. I thought being in sales was just talking, talking, talking. Well, it turns out, the guy that hired me ended up being president of Honeywell, eventually…
Street smart guy, savvy, real good guy. But what he taught me is, you’ve got two ears and one mouth, use them on the right ratio. And the reality is, the more you ask, the more you gonna learn.
If you and I are in a meeting, and I do 100% of talking, I still know what I know, and now, you know everything that you know and I know. So who won? You wanna know… I wanna know what you know.
Rod Khleif: Love it. I didn’t realize that’s… I didn’t have the chance to read that chapter. I realized that’s the direction you were going. I like that even better.
Guys, in this business, you’re gonna have relationships with brokers, lenders, investors, partners, your team. Like Dale Carnegie in his book, How to Win Friends And Influence People, you wanna steer a conversation with questions. You want them to talk.
You’re learning. You’re growing. In sales, the best sales people on the planet are the ones that ask the most questions. They allow the prospect to talk. And basically, sell themselves, and talk about their objections. So you become an expert at asking questions… Love it. Love it.
Tim Shiner: Rod let me toss one more that I know you agree with. Thank You notes changed my life.
Rod Khleif: Oh, yeah.
Tim Shiner: I was at a Tom Hopkins seminar in Kansas City, Missouri.
Rod Khleif: I had him on the show.
Tom Shiner: Oh, you did?
Rod Khleif: And I got a flood of thank you notes after I had him on the show. It was awesome. Yeah.
Tim Shiner: So I’m sitting there, I’m feeling bad. I took a customer because basically I should’ve been seeing five people that day. Instead, I’m sneaking off to pay a $99 seminar, back 25 years ago. But I look at everything as I just want one nugget. I look at myself as a composite rock. I wanna grab a piece of that person’s good trait, that person’s good trait…
Rod Khleif: I love it.
Tim Shiner: So I walked into that seminar going, “I just want one thing.” And the one thing I got from Tom Hopkins was Thank You notes. So then… I was a lousy sales guy. You basically kick me out of your office, I’m, “Hey, thanks for the time. I look forward to spending a little bit more time with you the next time.”
So you kick me out and I give you a Thank You note. What ended up happening is, people are like, “Okay, this guy sucks as a sales guy but he’s somewhat likeable, and he does follow up so maybe he’s a man of integrity.
I’ve written Thank You notes for forever, which is leads to another chapter called Happy Bombs.
[00:30:01]
Tim Shiner: I love…
Rod Khleif: Hold on. Before you go on…
Tim Shiner: I’m sorry.
Rod Khleif: Before you go on, I wanna hear Happy Moms…
Tim Shiner: It’s Happy Bombs. [chuckles]
Rod Khleif: I had Tom on the show twice, and I got two handwritten Thank You notes from Tom.
Tim Shiner: That’s awesome.
Rod Khleif: Talk about a class act. When you get one, it’s just so powerful. I actually have a board at home, for the Thank You notes I’ve gotten from my listeners. I got them stick-pinned on there. I need to take a picture of it.
It’s so powerful, guys. So don’t… Let’s not just gloss over… oh… Don’t count on… What?
Tim Shiner: Don’t Count on Being Thanked. But that was one year’s worth of Thank You notes. So every year, I bag them and tag them…
Rod Khleif: Oh, you got it in here.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome.
Tim Shiner: Every year, I’d bag them and tag them. And start the New Year with [bad audio] If I didn’t screw up the set up that I’m on, I’m staring at my basket of Thank You notes. I bet there’s at least 125 received Thank You notes this year, already…
Rod Khleif: Love it.
Tim Shiner: So it’s pretty neat. But a happy bomb is like a Thank You note point-five… What that is, is let’s say that I know you’re into… let’s say we talked about both having Saab 900s.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: And I go find a die-cast Saab 900 and then I mail it to you going, “Hey Rod, thanks for your time. You know what? Once I saw the video on Tiny Hands I felt guilty that I only gave you a thousand. Here’s another thousand and there’s a little die-cast Saab 900.” That would be so much more…
Rod Khleif: That so funny that you say that. I’ve got a coaching client, that literally… My first car was a 70 Road Runner, and he found a Mattel… the little die-cast 70 Road Runner. I didn’t even know they existed, and sent it to me. I’m like… I put it on my Facebook page. Talk about thoughtful.
I put alongside a picture of me, next to this car. Of course, I look like a hot mess… I got a pic… It was so thoughtful. So now I am… That takes gratitude and acknowledgement to a whole another level when you do something like that, guys.
Tim Shiner: It’s Thank You notes in steroids.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Tim Shiner: So it’s called Happy Bombs. It’s a chapter and while I call it..
Rod Khleif: Happy… Oh! Bombs. I kept thinking you were saying moms, like mother. Got it. Happy Bombs. Okay.
Tim Shiner: Yeah. Why I call it happy bombs is because I do so much, I’m not trying to brag but I follow up like crazy, I throw so much out there that I’m not doing one thing waiting for it to come back like we’re playing tennis.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: I put so much stuff out there; I’m busy on to the next day. So them when someone texts or emails me, or calls me, I go, “Thank you”, for whatever it is. Like perfect example, your assistant Ron, emailed me yesterday, “Hey, thanks for the check, next time, maybe sign it.”
[chuckles]
Time Shiner: I forgot to sign the check.
Rod Khleif: Yeah.
Tim Shiner: But that was a happy bomb that, “Good, you got it. And good you got it before we went on the show.” So that’s what I call happy bombs.
Then one little iteration on that, I’m a big Thanksgiving guy, instead of Christmas. When you mail out Christmas gifts to your business friends, they’re in a stack of other Christmas gifts. So I jump the gun on it and I give out Thanksgiving gifts.
I normally give out food, because people when you give food, like, “Oh, who sent us what?” So there’s good buzz, but I wanna get ahead of that whole season, and deep in my heart I’m such a thankful guy that that holiday really resonates with me. So I do Thanksgiving instead of Christmas to get ahead of everything and get it on out there.
Rod Khleif: Love it. Love it, buddy. I absolutely love it.
Tim Shiner: So we’re talking about multi-family, and next thing you know we’re a self-help podcast now.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, yeah. Hey, I know that everybody listening is getting incredible value. So no worries… Okay number 37 – No Instant Pill For Success. I want you to expand on that. That’s huge, guys, pay attention to this one.
Tim Shiner: It’s not gonna happen fast. It’s not gonna happen easy. And it shouldn’t.
Rod Khleif: No.
Tim Shiner: If it does happen fast and easy, you need to be quadruple worried.
Rod Khleif: Yes.
Tim Shiner: Because you didn’t learn enough lessons to keep it. I get these people like, “Man, I would be just like you.” I’m like, “Alright, well, let me tell you how it works. You work for 31 years. You start with a paper route when you’re 12. I’m 51 so I’m counting those 31 years… You do more for others. You give away more money than all your friends…” You know, on and on and on. So don’t…
Rod Khleif: You’re always learning, you keep growing, you keep learning. You get up early; you do what you have to do to make it happen. You grind.
Tim Shiner: Don’t be discouraged.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: Know that it’s gonna take a while. The other thing that I know you and I, 100% agree on is multiple lines of revenue, multiple streams of revenue. It’s so important.
What I love when a bank looks at a W-2 wage earner, let’s pick on pilots, so you’ll get hate mail from pilots. So this pilot is making 200,000 a year from a major airline. Well that’s one oxygen line to them, if that get’s pinched, cut, whatever, the guy is 100% done with his source of money.
I probably have… 250 different streams of revenue.
Rod Khleif: No kidding. Good for you.
Tim Shiner: And I love it because it’s just, I feel like it’s, if it’s a table with one leg underneath it, you knock that leg out and you’re down. But if you have 250, take a big whack and 80% of it is still standing.
So anyone who has one revenue stream, try to figure out how to create other revenue streams…
Rod Khleif: That’s why these… That’s why you guys are listening to this show, ‘cause this is an incredible one. You don’t have to stop there. Multi-family is awesome, and there’s all sorts of things you can do.
And I will say, but I’ve… with the caveat, make sure you enjoy it. Make sure it’s something you enjoy.
Tim Shiner: Yeah.
Rod Khleif: That’s critical, would you agree?
Tim Shiner: Totally. People are just like they’re blown away by how happy I am. I’m happy because I’m doing exactly what I want to do everyday. But it wasn’t always that way. I had bosses that I hadn’t particularly agreed with work ethic, moral, whatever. I had to endure all that to finally create an opportunity.
But my favorite opportunity, and I know you’ll agree with is real estate, because you’re not having to go set up a chair, and sit in front of one of your apartment complexes and stay from 9:00 to 5:00.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: You’re doing the podcast. You’re doing what you love.
Rod Khleif: Right.
Tim Shiner: Look for revenue streams. But the best revenue streams are leverage revenue streams, and passive income revenue streams. Those are the best. Because if you have active revenue streams which requires a lot of you, you’re not gonna be able to have time to do others.
Rod Khleif: That’s right. No, that’s right. Leveraged and passive is the way to go. That’s the framework for what we’re doing here with multi family. And really, any, any real estate falls into that category. So fantastic… You’ve got another chapter called, You Inc. Expand on that one please.
Tim Shiner: Ok. So when I was a young sales guy, people were like, let’s say that you work for Coke. Why would you go talk to Pepsi and Dr Pepper? They’re like, “Why are you talking to the other people?” I’m like, “I know everything we’re doing, and I wanna find out what they’re doing.
I view it as, anytime I invest in my knowledge, and I know it’s kinda repetitive on some other stuffs but you got to invest in yourself. You got to find out what the competition’s doing. If you lost your job with Coke, you probably a good guy to hire at Pepsi. But if they hate you over there, then you’re probably not can get a job. So be friendly with your competitors. Find out what’s going on. Invest in yourself.
I bet I haven’t listened to three full songs in the car, in 30 years. Because I’m always on the phone, I’ve always got something positive in the background, and I’m always investing in myself.
People that check out for hours on end, watching TV, or this or that, it’s a waste of time. You got to invest in yourself. Especially if you’re not where you need to be.
Rod Khleif: Thank you.
Tim Shiner: If you’re not where you need to be then I mean, maybe if you’ve done okay, give yourself a little bit of a treat of something that’s mindless, but if you’re not where you’re at, throw away the TV and start listening to podcasts, start reading books, start investing on you. You Inc.
Rod Khleif: You Inc. Love it, brother. Well listen, this has been an awesome episode, and I know you’ve added an incredible amount of value. And guys get his book, because everything goes to charity. It’s 50 Things They Didn’t Teach You In School. We’ll have a link in the show notes, Tim Shiner. Thank you, brother.
Tim Shiner: It’s on Amazon. Thank you.
Rod Khleif: Yeah, it’s on Amazon. Thank you. Thank you, brother. You’ve really added value, it’s been a real treat. And thank you again, for your gift to my foundation. Guys, go make it happen…
Tim Shiner: I’m doubling it up. I’m sending you another thousand bucks. This time, I’ll sign the check.
Rod Khleif: Wow. Wow.
Tim Shiner: Well, here’s the deal, once I saw your video yesterday that Ron, your assistant, sent. Seeing all the kids getting backpacks… You first told me about the teddy bear, but then seeing the backpacks.
Being a child that doesn’t have much and going to school without the proper stuff. You start right out the gate. It’s like that kid.
Rod Khleif: Yeah. Wow. Thank you, brother. Thank you so much. And you’re so right. Can you imagine being a kid going to school, and you look to the kid next to you, he’s got everything he needs and you don’t have even the basics… You rock, man. Thank you. And guys, thanks for listening.
Tim Shiner: Thanks for having me Rod.
Rod Khleif: Tim, how do they reach you, if they wanna reach out to you? Do you have a website?
Tim Shiner: Yeah, timshiner.com, just tim S-H-I-N-E-R .com, the other thing on that website is a free poster, 25 Habits of a Future Millionaire. It’s basically the habits that I believe are necessary for you to become a millionaire.
Rod Khleif: Perfect.
Tim Shiner: A lot of people have in on their wall, it’s free.
Rod Khleif: Awesome.
Tim Shiner: There you go.
Rod Khleif: Awesome. Thanks, buddy.
Tim Shiner: Thanks.
Rod Khleif: Well, thanks again for being on the show; added tons of value. And thanks again for your next generous gift. You rock.
Tim Shiner: Yep.
Rod Khleif: Thanks, buddy.
Tim Shiner: Bye. Take care.
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