Chris, an entrepreneur since age 7, went from door-to-door candy sales to managing large events by 17. A move to manage a bowling center at 23 unknowingly sparked his real estate journey. In 2019, he and his wife ventured into real estate, owning 6 units by 2021. By day, he works for the world’s largest bowling equipment manufacturer. Chris and his wife now solely own 30 units, host the “Way to Wealth through Real Estate” meetup, and have acquired 19 units without using their own money.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- Chris’s Background In Bowling Centers
- The Warrior Program’s Effect On Chris
- The Importance Of Having a Great Partner
- Creative Deals That Chris Has Put Together
- Getting Alerts For Local Multifamily Properties
- Knowing How To Properly Manage A Property
- Why You Should Have Relationships With Local Banks
- How Great Tenants Affect The Property
If you’d like to apply to the warrior program and do deals with other rockstars in this business: Text crush to 72345 and we’ll be speaking soon.
Full Transcript Below
00:00:04:06 – 00:00:28:22
Intro
So you know, that apartment building or complex, you drive by every day, someone owns it, and it’s probably someone on this podcast. Multifamily Rockstars. During the growing numbers of real estate entrepreneurs who have made the jump to buying multifamily properties for lifetime cash flow, multi family rock stars using OPM for an OMG ROI. Now here are your hosts, Brian Cleave and Mark Nace.
00:00:28:24 – 00:00:48:16
Rod
Welcome to the new version of multifamily rock stars. And because we’ve gotten so much feedback from you guys and we’re always trying to make things better, we decided to make these episodes really more deep dives into our guests deals and really give you more practical and actionable items for getting started in doing your first deal, especially if you’re new to multifamily.
00:00:48:16 – 00:00:53:03
Rod
And of course, I’ve got my co-host, Mark Nagy, on with me. Mark, what’s happening, brother A-Rod?
00:00:53:04 – 00:00:59:17
Mark
Good to be here, especially with a guy who. Speaking of deals, I just invested on one of his deals, so I’m excited to get into some of this stuff with him.
00:00:59:20 – 00:01:20:18
Rod
Oh, that’s right. That’s right. I forgot about that. Yeah. We’ve got Chris Moyer on today, and Chris is he’s in about 59 doors, I believe, so far. And what’s what’s interesting about Chris is he’s very creative. He’s done some very creative deals, creative financing, you know, like no money down kind of stuff. So I’m really excited to dig into that.
00:01:20:19 – 00:01:21:18
Rod
Welcome to the show, brother.
00:01:21:20 – 00:01:23:11
Chris
Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Mark, for having me.
00:01:23:15 – 00:01:39:13
Rod
Absolutely. So why don’t you take a few minutes and give us, you know, a little bit of your history? I got it here and it’s you’ve done a lot of stuff. And so kind of give us a high level overview of your background, where you came from and why real estate, and then just bring us current man.
00:01:39:15 – 00:02:06:05
Chris
Yeah, my journey really started in the bowling industry. I ran a bowling center for a number of years, and after that adventure I did one real estate deal before COVID did the opposite of what I should have done during COVID and locked myself in a room and didn’t do anything. And then coming out of COVID decided that I didn’t want to be scared and worry about, you know, what my W-2 job might do to me.
00:02:06:05 – 00:02:47:03
Chris
So I jumped right in and started doing some more real estate deals. Before I joined your program, I had 11 doors and I realized quickly that it just wasn’t really scalable. So I decided to talk to some others, look at different ways to either finance deals, you know, do more doors and came across you and, you know, since then, you know, done some extra deals in our area just syndicated a 34 unit and that the whole program and the structure around it has just really changed our lives and been able to really, you know, just do more.
00:02:47:05 – 00:03:28:10
Rod
Well, I appreciate that. But let’s let’s dig deep here. What do you think is your superpower as it relates to the multifamily business? Because I know you’ve got, like I say, a varied you’ve done some sales, you’ve you’ve you’ve worked in the hotel industry, you’ve done all sorts of different things from from, you know, the holiday events to the maintenance department and, you know, talk about some of the skills that you bring to the table that have helped you in this business and maybe then who you’ve also aligned with to offset any areas that you need to be offset like like you know, nobody does everything in this business.
00:03:28:10 – 00:03:33:06
Rod
So maybe speak to that a little bit. Just the whole what you bring to the table, your skill sets and the team environment.
00:03:33:10 – 00:03:52:23
Chris
Yeah, I’d say the underwriting piece, I really stuck to right away. You know, I think there’s two ways to get in the deals to bring the deal to the table. I had the money and I didn’t have the money, so I brought the deals and so I just really stuck to the underwriting right away. And I think I’m fairly good at creating systems.
00:03:53:00 – 00:04:14:20
Chris
So we have a couple of virtual assistants that do a lot of the work for me. And you know, I work a full time job, so I can’t spend 40, 50 hours a week just dedicated to this, have to, you know, have a family, have to sleep still and all. So those two things have really helped. I have a construction background, but not nearly as deep as my partner.
00:04:14:20 – 00:04:34:08
Chris
So my partner has an engineering degree and he can really dive deep into that aspect. When we get on site for a property and probably see some things that I would never see in a property. And you know, so that’s how you can partner with somebody else. You know, I’m great with the numbers and he’s great with the onsite stuff.
00:04:34:11 – 00:04:36:04
Mark
Center made that your partner?
00:04:36:06 – 00:04:37:03
Chris
Yes, sir.
00:04:37:05 – 00:04:54:11
Mark
I ask just because he’ll be on the podcast next week. So if you guys listen, you want to hear the other side on Chris’s partner. Listen for next week, next Friday, this should be out. So tell tell us about so so having that experience before we get into the syndication, you have you’ve done things that we don’t talk about a lot on here right.
00:04:54:11 – 00:05:07:02
Mark
In terms of creative financing and kind of starting smaller and growing that way. Tell us about what you did, how you found some of these smaller deals and how you creatively financed them to just kind of grow at your own pace.
00:05:07:02 – 00:05:11:06
Rod
Good. I assume they were local. These smaller deals were local, yes. Into your local market.
00:05:11:10 – 00:05:15:13
Chris
Yeah, they’re all local market. And we self-manage everything as well.
00:05:15:15 – 00:05:19:20
Rod
And where do you live? Just just for some of some idea here.
00:05:19:22 – 00:05:24:07
Chris
Northeast Arkansas. Oh that’s right. In the area is Jonesboro, Arkansas.
00:05:24:09 – 00:05:31:03
Rod
Got it. Okay. We were looking at a deal up there. I was there. Holly Springs. Does that sound familiar? Is that your area? It’s hot.
00:05:31:03 – 00:05:33:19
Chris
Spring has about two, 2 hours.
00:05:33:21 – 00:05:37:03
Rod
Okay. All right. Anyway, I digress. Please, please continue. All right.
00:05:37:05 – 00:06:10:02
Chris
Yeah. So going back to the smaller deals, you know, I just started really networking with real estate agents, with, you know, loan officers in the area. Just anyone that that knows about anything in this in this area. For the smaller deals. And that’s how I really and still to today get opportunities to buy these smaller assets. So what we decided early on when we when we joined the Warrior program and all is that we were going to kind of have those two buckets of investing.
00:06:10:04 – 00:06:42:15
Chris
We have the local stuff that we do that as you said, Mark, we can we can get really good financing opportunities on. And then we also do the syndication piece. And so those are just the two different things that we do. And from the, you know, from the financing side on the local stuff, it’s all value add opportunities to where we can buy it at a fantasy stake, the right partner port per door and just really, you know, that just really helps get in at the right deal.
00:06:42:15 – 00:06:54:00
Chris
So we look at just as much locally as we do from a syndication standpoint. We say no to 95% of them. And the ones that we do say yes to just ends up being right in our buy box.
00:06:54:01 – 00:07:08:09
Rod
So talk about how to talk about a creative deal that you did, that you know, that maybe you got into the seller participated or you did something unusual. Talk about, you know, talk about one or two of those.
00:07:08:11 – 00:07:35:09
Chris
You know, I think for us, the biggest thing is, is getting into them at such a low price point that and having they do such a major flip to the property that, you know, you combine for $20,000 a door in some cases and get financing from a loan to value, a loan to value or a loan to cost versus a loan to what you’re paying for the property.
00:07:35:09 – 00:08:06:10
Chris
So in most cases, what we’re doing is, you know, we’re buying them for 30,000 or $40,000 a door, and then they’re appraising post renovation at 80 to $100000 a door. And we can get really good financing on on those. And that just as is really how we’re doing it. And the reason why it’s you just really can’t do that in a lot of other places is because I just don’t feel like you can buy very many things at 30 or $40,000 a door right now.
00:08:06:12 – 00:08:16:02
Chris
So it’s just it’s a unique place to be. You know, I’m glad where we live because I just don’t think these opportunities are in a lot of markets.
00:08:16:02 – 00:08:34:14
Rod
No, I would have to agree. Okay. So that’s kind of a a unicorn situation as it relates to that. Well, so talk about it. So you’re good with the underwriting, talk about this recent deal that that, you know, Mark even invested in talk about that deal. How did you find it? Let’s start there.
00:08:34:16 – 00:08:53:20
Chris
It was on the MLS. It was, wow. You know, Rod, you mentioned that some people that own one apartment complex, they’ll go to the guy that they sold their house from. And this is what it is. These these two guys is the only apartment they ever owned. And they just went to their local agent and jumped on the MLS.
00:08:53:22 – 00:08:57:13
Chris
First time that we offered on it, we actually missed out on it.
00:08:57:19 – 00:09:18:12
Rod
Let let me stop you for one second. I’m sorry. I just want to hammer home what you just said. So one of the things that we teach our students is to get on the local MLS system. Residential MLS for houses. Okay? And because what’ll happen is, like, like in this example, these these guys had this one apartment complex.
00:09:18:12 – 00:09:42:17
Rod
They went to the agent that sold them their house who hasn’t got a frickin clue how to market a multifamily property. And so, you know, they’ll put it in the regular MLS system and nobody sees it there because nobody looking there to find it. And so you find four phenomenal deals that way. And so that’s like a ninja trick to make sure whatever market you’re buying in that you have a connection to a local broker, agent, residential broker, agent.
00:09:42:17 – 00:09:51:08
Rod
You let them know to put an alert in there. If anything, MLS shows up to let you know. And it’s just a great strategy to find deals. And you I just wanted to hammer that home. Please continue. Please.
00:09:51:08 – 00:10:09:22
Chris
Yeah. And just to reiterate that I get notified of every multifamily property in the state of Arkansas that comes up. It can be a duplex to 40 or 60 units. I found some crazy, crazy ones on there, so but I get notified every single one within about 5 minutes that it hits the MLS. That way I get first crack at it.
00:10:09:24 – 00:10:11:00
Rod
Nice, nice.
00:10:11:00 – 00:10:32:08
Chris
And and then from this particular deal, the first time we offered on it, we actually lost out on it. They people that they went away. It was an all cash offer that ended up falling through about two weeks later. Part two Back on the MLS as active, we gave them the same LOI that we gave them two weeks prior and they accepted it.
00:10:32:11 – 00:10:40:02
Chris
So it’s one of those also that, you know, keep it around and you know, a lot of things end up coming back around, especially in 2023.
00:10:40:06 – 00:11:01:11
Rod
Let me, let me hammer that home. Okay. So LOI is letter of intent. And in our world, you know, you never write a contract yourself and and you have an attorney write it or review it and attorneys aren’t free. So you start the process with a seller or a broker with what’s called a letter of intent. It just lays out the made deal points on a deal.
00:11:01:16 – 00:11:20:08
Rod
The purchase price, when the closing day is going to happen, how much earnest money, how it’s going to be financed or whatever. All the main points is typically one or two pages is all actually it’s typically two pages, and that starts the conversation is typically not binding. But that way, if you agree on all the main points, then you let the attorneys hammer out the purchase and sale agreements called the PSA.
00:11:20:10 – 00:11:35:05
Rod
But it starts with that. LOI Whenever you’re in this war, in this world, you want, you stay in touch with the brokers and the agents that have a deal listed because so many deals fall through. Well, they always have. Even the even these last few years, a lot of deals you’ll get on the second or third time around.
00:11:35:09 – 00:11:45:24
Rod
So you got to stay in touch with your brokers and agents so that you’re you know, you’re you’re in this you’re in the in the catbird seat. When that deal comes away, you know, comes back around.
00:11:46:01 – 00:12:04:12
Mark
Two things I wanted to mention here, Chris. One of them is that right? Which is why this deal was a deal. And there’s two things that I liked about this deal starting there. I know. I think you said it was like 50% vacant. Talk about that and why this was a good deal for you and where it started at and where you think you can get this deal, too.
00:12:04:13 – 00:12:26:11
Chris
Yeah. So we purchased it for under 42,000 a door. So that is obviously a great deal. I think a lot of people aren’t living in the Midwest right now. They’re going to hear that. And, you know, they might not be able to buy a parking spot for that much money. And secondly, there was 11 units that only needed call it a 1500 dollar turn to get them rented.
00:12:26:11 – 00:12:47:06
Chris
So that was a huge bonus to us thinking it was just poor property management. We have these these great units that need some paint, some carpet and a refrigerator and they can be rented. And they were just sitting there vacant from owners who haven’t been on the property since 2019 and from a property management company that just didn’t know how to manage a property.
00:12:47:08 – 00:13:04:08
Mark
That’s the second part that I wanted to talk about and why I like this deal, because you guys are self-managing, you don’t live too far. But one thing that was interesting is what it sounds like is you’ve kind of done the opposite of a lot of other investors, which is they might buy a bunch of units and have a third party come in and manage it and kind of learn the business.
00:13:04:08 – 00:13:14:21
Mark
And then once they hit a certain unit count, you know, then maybe manage it yourselves. But it sounds like correct me if I’m wrong, you guys have managed everything in-house from the very beginning. What what was the thought process behind doing that?
00:13:14:22 – 00:13:45:05
Chris
The big thing, you know, is we have a system in place locally now that we like. You know, we have all the property management software in place. We have multiple employees that that are in place. We have construction crews already in place from all our other things and all these heavy lives. So we don. So it was really easy to just tag along on on that side of it and say, hey, you know, you guys want to do this, and we’re able to just manage it from that way because we already have all those people and systems in place.
00:13:45:07 – 00:13:53:10
Chris
And it just made complete sense to to manage it in-house and get the unit turns done from people that we know and trust.
00:13:53:10 – 00:14:20:21
Rod
Now that that’s, that’s, that’s solid and makes complete sense. And what you’re going to find, guys, is when you’re dealing with smaller assets like this from a duplex up to a 30 or 40 even, is it smaller management companies and typically unsophisticated management companies in, you know, in the world that I buy in, which is 100 or 150 or higher, you know, or even much higher unit count, you’re going to get very sophisticated management companies.
00:14:20:21 – 00:14:40:14
Rod
And and they’ve really got their act together, continual training, so on and so forth. But in the smaller stuff, you know, it’s it’s challenging to find a good management company and and you and but with with that in mind you’re going to find opportunity like Chris found here with this particular deal. And so how did you how did you buy this thing?
00:14:40:14 – 00:14:48:18
Rod
How did you finance it? How did you take it down? I know you’re syndicated because Mark invested, but talk about the financing a little bit.
00:14:48:20 – 00:15:12:02
Chris
Local bank. So local bank that you have a local bank, just a relationship from a local bank that have done some other duplexes, some other fixing flips from one to him and got it down that way. So having that local relationship and a guy I can go to and trust and and the bank actually called me and said, Man, this is a really good deal.
00:15:12:02 – 00:15:17:01
Chris
We want to finance it. And that’s that’s a good place to be in when a bank wants to want to do a deal with that.
00:15:17:03 – 00:15:21:05
Rod
Sure is. Yeah. That’s you don’t hear that very often. That’s that’s that’s awesome.
00:15:21:07 – 00:15:36:24
Mark
And this debt if I remember, is a little bit unique in terms of the time period, the term and the interest rate, because I know interest rates are the hot topic. Everybody’s talking about interest rates right now. Where are they going? And obviously this one, was that a little bit of a higher interest rate and it was still a deal.
00:15:36:24 – 00:15:42:22
Mark
So can you kind of give like an overview of the debt and how that worked and kind of what that’s going to look like for the future of the deal?
00:15:42:23 – 00:16:09:07
Chris
Yeah, it was shorter term debt, so it was two years, one year interest only and 9% interest. So it was a little bit higher, but not nearly as high as as bridge. So, you know, I kind of considered it in the middle between some agency debt and where bridge setting. So that was attractive and from a break even standpoint, we only had to be like 62% occupied and we’ll hit that before the end of the year.
00:16:09:07 – 00:16:19:11
Chris
So, you know, we’ll be positive cash flowing by January. You know, just being in upper sixties, the low seventies as as we’re doing unit turns.
00:16:19:11 – 00:16:20:15
Mark
And that’s what so.
00:16:20:17 – 00:16:22:06
Rod
So what is the.
00:16:22:08 – 00:16:40:12
Chris
Yes. Yeah yeah yeah three months is pretty quick of a yeah we have five units that we’ve already turned with the renters and we are getting $219 a unit more in rent by simply doing like turns and taking care of lieutenants.
00:16:40:14 – 00:16:48:09
Rod
So what’s the ultimate goal here? You’ve got two year debt. So the plan, I’m guessing, is to get it to a stabilized place and then refinance it.
00:16:48:11 – 00:16:49:20
Chris
Correct? Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:50:00 – 00:17:01:00
Rod
Smart. So let me ask you this. If you were to guess, you know, how many years or units do you think it’s going to take for you to reach what your version of financial freedom is?
00:17:01:02 – 00:17:24:06
Chris
Yeah, I thought about this one for a while when I saw the question, and I think it’s for us 3 to 5 years and and I say that only because I think we have really lofty goals. You’ll see some of them behind me that I just really, you know, there’s one thing places that we want to go. So I think you can get there a little bit quicker if you don’t have quite as quite as lofty goals.
00:17:24:06 – 00:17:26:20
Chris
But for us 3 to 5 years and I think we’ll be there.
00:17:26:23 – 00:17:29:04
Rod
What are some of the big goals behind you? I can’t read them.
00:17:29:07 – 00:17:46:01
Chris
Ooh, So I’ll turn around just a little bit. I want to own eight own centers by 2030. I want to visit polling centers. Centers. I want to visit all seven continents by 2030 as well. So I want to do some very seven. Yeah.
00:17:46:02 – 00:17:47:01
Mark
Antarctica, too, huh?
00:17:47:03 – 00:18:08:14
Chris
Yes, Yes. Antarctica is on the list. That is a place where most people can say they’ll never go. And that’s where I decided I wanted to go early on. You know, some of the other ones that aren’t on the list is a thousand units. In the next three years. I want to raise $2 million next year. I think capital raising is a big place and where things really need to go in the future.
00:18:08:14 – 00:18:19:20
Chris
So that’s that’s a huge goal for us upcoming. And this is, you know, call it ten or 11 months old. So I need to redo a little bit of the 2024 goals here in the next couple of weeks.
00:18:19:24 – 00:18:38:01
Rod
Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. Now, I will tell you guys, this is a clue. He’s got his goals on the board behind him in plain view. That’s what we call a clue. I’ve got a sign on my bed when I’m laying in my bed. He used to say 100,000 a month. It says a million a month. Now, Tifa used to hate it, but it’s still there.
00:18:38:01 – 00:18:59:22
Rod
A million a month. So you get your goals in front of you. It gets into your subconscious. And that’s why that’s why my students are so incredibly successful. In our Warrior program. We’re up over 180,000 units that we believe they own at this point. It was just staggering to me. By the way, if you are interested in applying to the Warrior program, text the word crush to seven two, three, four or five.
00:19:00:02 – 00:19:04:11
Rod
Again, text crush 27234, five to check us out.
00:19:04:11 – 00:19:24:18
Mark
Well, one thing that because we’ve talked about and you just mentioned it there, Chris, right. A thousand doors, $2 million money raised to get to that financial freedom goal because I get this question all the time, right? How do you make money? What are these doors? What does all this mean? Do you see yourself just continuing to do syndication moving forward to reach that?
00:19:24:18 – 00:19:31:20
Mark
Do you want to continue to do the small stuff with creative financing, a mix of both. How do you see yourself getting to that financial freedom point?
00:19:31:20 – 00:19:52:20
Chris
I see it from both. You know, the syndication piece is huge for the scale side of it. But, you know, when you own 40, 60, 80, 100 some doors locally as well, that have that has some big power, especially when you had the systems in place, the people that do it and manage it. I don’t really have to do a lot in that side of the business.
00:19:52:22 – 00:20:14:13
Chris
It just kind of runs itself. We have great tenants. We take care of them. I have some good maintenance workers. My wife is really good with our tenants as well, so we were able to scale that side without it taking much time for me so I can dedicate right now my time to capital raising, to deal sourcing and getting those systems in place, you know, moving forward into 2024.
00:20:14:15 – 00:20:15:16
Rod
So nice.
00:20:15:16 – 00:20:16:12
Chris
I like bold.
00:20:16:18 – 00:20:21:22
Rod
Let me ask you this. We’ve we’ve really not done this before. Are you okay with listeners reaching out to you?
00:20:21:24 – 00:20:22:22
Chris
Yes, absolutely.
00:20:22:23 – 00:20:33:15
Rod
Okay. Well, why don’t you throw your email address out here? And guys, if you want to ask him questions about what he’s doing or the program we have or anything like that, just email him. He’s a great guy. What’s your email, brother?
00:20:33:18 – 00:20:38:02
Chris
It is Chris at ways to wealth equity dot com.
00:20:38:04 – 00:20:46:09
Rod
How’s that spelled the way it would be normally spelled ways ways to welcome our waste to wealth equity dot com.
00:20:46:11 – 00:20:47:09
Chris
Correct.
00:20:47:11 – 00:21:13:07
Rod
Okay Chris are ways to wealth equity dot com love it. So let me ask you this you know we have so many listeners I love to ask this question that haven’t pulled the trigger on anything yet that no they want to, you know get into this they know they want to build, you know, some legacy wealth for themselves and their families and their kids and their kids and their kids, if possible, speak to them, speak to speak to the people that haven’t done anything yet that know they need to got.
00:21:13:07 – 00:21:29:22
Chris
To find the drive in the why. I think is a big my you know really got to find you know what where do you want to be and why do you want to be there? And you know, you may figure out what you want in life, but if you don’t know why you want it, you’ll never wake up in the morning at 4 a.m. to do it.
00:21:29:22 – 00:21:49:11
Chris
So, you know, my drive and all that is, is where I want to be long term. It’s my family and show my kids. It’s the you know, I want to give my kids, you know, lots of lots of stuff that I wasn’t able to have as a child and experiences as just growing up in a very modest household for two parents.
00:21:49:11 – 00:22:06:02
Chris
I just worked normal two jobs. So I just want I want a lot out of life. It’s it’s a short life, you know, it goes by quick. And I just really want to have those experiences that time with them. And I wake up every day at 4 a.m., 4:30 a.m. because of it. Wow.
00:22:06:04 – 00:22:08:00
Mark
That’s early, man. I see. Why. Yeah.
00:22:08:02 – 00:22:09:05
Chris
Yeah.
00:22:09:07 – 00:22:25:02
Mark
Well, I invested with the right guy. I’d say. Now, for the people that know their why, they resonate with the message you just said. What do you think? There’s one action item, one logistical thing that they could go do or take away from this that we can kind of leave them with before we end here?
00:22:25:05 – 00:22:56:16
Chris
Yeah. So I’d say no matter what space, it’s and whether it’s real estate or being an airplane pilot or whatever, I don’t matter what it is, get around somebody that’s doing it. Get and find a mentor. Get into a program like the Warrior program or something, but get around somebody that is doing things that are bigger than you so you can understand how they’re doing it, you know, possibly why they’re doing it and just and just understand what it takes because when I first found Rod, I don’t even know what a syndication was.
00:22:56:20 – 00:23:18:24
Chris
You know, I was that guy that drove down a road and I looked at a 200 unit apartment complex and I thought some random guy that had a boatload of money on that place. And that is not how it works. Quickly learn to that. Quickly. Learn that, oh, you can be the person that does that as well. And it took getting in front of or in getting around the people in our program to be able to do that.
00:23:18:24 – 00:23:28:05
Rod
That’s great. Well, listen, brother, it’s great to see you. I appreciate you coming on for a few minutes and adding some value and just keep kicking ass, my friend.
00:23:28:07 – 00:23:29:16
Chris
Thank you, Rob. Appreciate it. Thank you.
00:23:29:16 – 00:23:33:04
Mark
Mark. All right, guys.
00:23:33:06 – 00:23:39:23
Intro
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