Cliff Avril, with a 10-year NFL career as a Defensive End starting in 2008 with the Detroit Lions and later joining the Seattle Seahawks, achieved back-to-back Super Bowl trips in 2013 and 2014. Notable for recording the fastest NFL score in 2013, he received a Pro Bowl nod in 2016. Beyond football, Cliff is a committed philanthropist, named the 2016 Seahawks Walter Payton Man of the Year. He co-founded the Cliff Avril Family Foundation in 2014, engaging in various community initiatives, from free football camps to supporting health causes. His foundation’s impact extends globally, building schools and homes in Haiti. As a Board member at JDRF and St. Thomas, and with his involvement in real estate through CA Family Properties and joint ventures, Cliff Avril continues to leave a lasting legacy both on and off the field.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- Cliff’s NFL Background
- Where To Look For Multifamily Deals
- The Similarity In Teamwork Between The NFL & Multifamily
- Not Learning Until You Take Action
- Giving Back To The People You Love Most
- Keeping Your Children Grounded In Reality
- Putting a Multifamily Game Plan Together
- Mentoring Younger People For Success
- The Fear Of Breaking Out Of The Comfort Zone
- Cliff’s Foundation and Charity Work
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
Full Transcript Below
01:19:36:17 – 01:20:02:05
Intro
Welcome. This is the lifetime cash flow through Real Estate Investing podcast. This is where you learn strategies to help you achieve lifetime financial freedom through real estate investment. Your host, Rod Cleave, has owned over 2000 homes and apartments, and he brings expertise in all aspects of real estate investment and management onto the show. Now here’s your host. Rod Cleese.
01:20:02:12 – 01:20:20:26
Rod
Welcome to another edition of Lifetime Cash flow from Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Cleef and I’m thrilled that you’re here. You guys have a real treat today. I’ve got Cliff Avril here and you know, I’m not even gonna steal any of his thunder. I want him to tell you what he’s all about. But it’s very, very impressive. And we’re going to have a lot of fun today.
01:20:20:26 – 01:20:21:21
Rod
Welcome to Sugar.
01:20:21:26 – 01:20:23:07
Cliff
And no, thank you. Thank you for having me.
01:20:23:08 – 01:20:32:01
Rod
Absolutely. So why don’t you just take a few minutes and talk about this incredible career in the NFL and, you know, and just kind of bring us current.
01:20:32:01 – 01:20:51:26
Cliff
Take your time. Yes. Yes. So ten year NFL that played in the league, played for Detroit Lions for five years. So go Lions because they’re still in the playoffs doing their thing, but then also playing another five years with the Seattle Seahawks where we were able to win a Super Bowl, went to the Super Bowl with the Super Bowl twice, been to the Pro Bowl.
01:20:51:28 – 01:21:15:09
Cliff
We’ve done quite a few things in the NFL and enjoyed my journey, you know, because I grew up in in a town right outside of Jacksonville, Florida, to both my parents are Haitian immigrants. So being able to kind of accomplish that one generation after they came to the states has been a very rewarding for everyone involved and very much appreciated the opportunity to be able to do so.
01:21:15:09 – 01:21:33:18
Cliff
So it’s been it’s been quite a journey. But now, you know, being retired, I’ve done quite a few things. I had my own radio show. I’ve done, you know, some some different things in the media space, but really they just kept calling me Rose. They just kept calling me. And in particular during the pandemic is when I actually start paying more attention to what you were doing.
01:21:33:18 – 01:21:46:05
Cliff
Right. And and you kind of helped me kind of kind of get my business in order and just realizing that, you know, most families, despite there being a cash flow, is everything. And, you know, just trying to build out this this real estate thing.
01:21:46:12 – 01:22:04:16
Rod
Well, that was much quicker than I expected. And I got to tell you, glossed over a couple of very impressive things. I mean, you got to be in the Pro Bowl. You were named, you know, Walter Payton Man of the Year for the Seahawks in 2016. I mean, that’s big stuff. And you know, you won a Super Bowl.
01:22:04:16 – 01:22:22:25
Rod
So, you know, very, very impressive career. And, you know, we’re going to talk about some of the other amazing things you’ve done as well, but we’ll do that later. But so I know you were at my Orlando boot camp, which was which was quite, quite a good time. There was about a thousand people there. I got another one coming up in Orlando, Windsor.
01:22:22:26 – 01:22:34:13
Rod
Orlando Boot camp meant for never mind. I got a virtual one coming up in April. Come see that one. That’s the one you should come to anyway. You don’t want to wait until December. The proverbial. You know what’s hitting the fan right now?
01:22:34:13 – 01:22:35:05
Cliff
Yes.
01:22:35:07 – 01:22:41:12
Rod
So? So. So talk a little bit about what you’ve done in real estate and then we’ll dig into that a little bit.
01:22:41:19 – 01:23:07:01
Cliff
Yes. So the business model that I’ve kind of created for family properties is we have, uh, where we build luxury spec homes on the east side of Seattle where, you know, if anybody’s in that space, there’s a lot of wiggle room for, you know, big, big margin, big profits to be made. And then what I do with that is I go buy distressed multifamily properties.
01:23:07:01 – 01:23:31:28
Cliff
So we go out, we we find distressed problems, whether it’s mismanaged, whether it’s, you know, needs renovations and what not. And we we kind of, you know, bring them back to life and then we rent them out, refinance, rent them out and hold onto them for the long haul. I haven’t I’ve bought we have about ten and a half, almost $11 million worth of real estate under man under management right now.
01:23:32:05 – 01:23:57:23
Cliff
And it’s just again, what I’ve realized over the years is not about how much money you actually have in the bank, but more how much cash flow you can create. You know, you want to be able to have that money working for you and being able to basically sustain your lifestyle. And one of the reasons I started saving properties, honestly, is I wanted to be able to help my family and friends be able to create generational wealth through real estate by creating a platform for them to be able to invest alongside of me.
01:23:57:25 – 01:24:13:02
Cliff
So that’s kind of the goal. That’s, that’s that, that’s the finish line. If I’m able to get, you know, when I turn 50 and I have all my friends that have invested in real estate and, you know, kind of create a LP and they got some cash flow coming in when we turned 50 and were like, Hey, let’s go to the Bahamas for the weekend.
01:24:13:05 – 01:24:15:27
Cliff
I don’t have to foot the bill. Everybody has a little cash flow coming in.
01:24:16:00 – 01:24:16:29
Rod
And it comes from history.
01:24:17:03 – 01:24:24:28
Cliff
Exactly. Exactly. So that’s that’s that’s the ultimate goal. But it’s being able to help friends and family be able to, you know, invest through real estate and create a generational wealth.
01:24:25:01 – 01:24:46:24
Rod
You know, that’s a that’s a great a great way. And and so you’ve done some you’ve done some Seattle spec homes. I would caution you, be careful because I think the proverbial, you know what’s about to hit the you know what and and that will slow down fast but but you’ve taken those profits you bought some multifamily I think you’re you’re in several states if I recall.
01:24:46:24 – 01:25:02:18
Cliff
Yes I’m I’m a few different markets We’re we’re in Chicago. We’re in Huntsville, Alabama. And and we own a couple of things and in Seattle as well. And I know just following you and kind of understanding what states and what what states you do, what states you don’t invest in.
01:25:02:21 – 01:25:05:20
Rod
What you do is look at what you’re wearing today. Yeah.
01:25:05:22 – 01:25:07:00
Cliff
Well, by the way.
01:25:07:02 – 01:25:25:11
Rod
He’s got blue shorts and a blue shirt on, so I’m just. I’m just messing with him. Yeah, but, you know, listen, it’s not that’s not a political statement. It’s a it’s a it’s a fricking cost of doing business statement and regulatory environment statement. It’s a you know, it’s a most of this most of the blue states, unfortunately, are completely broke.
01:25:25:11 – 01:25:30:00
Rod
And so they’ve got to continue to tax. And for someone with like you, that’s a big deal.
01:25:30:01 – 01:25:49:08
Cliff
No doubt. No doubt. And and I agree with you, actually, you know, and I’ve had to learn somewhat the hard way in the sense of just understanding kind of how, you know, from even from a political standpoint, the difference in, you know, landlord friendly cities and states in comparison to tenant friendly cities, the state. And and you do have, you know, your ups and downs.
01:25:49:08 – 01:26:08:04
Cliff
You have your pros and cons from from both. But again, for me, one of the main reasons why I’m actually in Illinois or in Chicago in particular is because when I first got started in wanting to get into the value add space and can’t afford really things in Seattle to be able to do it that way because things in Seattle don’t necessarily cash flow.
01:26:08:04 – 01:26:27:21
Cliff
You’re buying it for appreciation, which is not the game that I want to play. But also but going to Chicago, when you’re out of state, you have to have people that you can trust. And my best friend, I went to Purdue, which was 2 hours away from Chicago. My best friend’s from Chicago. He’s a general contractor. So we decided to kind of go into business together and kind of build that out together.
01:26:27:21 – 01:26:46:17
Cliff
So that’s why I’m in Chicago. But yes, there is a there’s pros to be in Chicago, but there’s also a lot of cons with what you just said. You know, it’s extremely hard to to through the eviction process and different things like that. But if you get some great tenants, you get some you know, you get a great asset, you can get that cash flow that you’re looking for.
01:26:46:17 – 01:26:47:19
Cliff
For sure, though.
01:26:47:21 – 01:27:04:10
Rod
That’s the name of the podcast, brother, because it’s all about the cash flow. And and you know, you said something else and, you know, when I teach people where to buy, I tell them one of four places, one of your backyard, obviously, which is a two hour drive, any in any direction because you can de de de travel and manage it.
01:27:04:12 – 01:27:21:18
Rod
Second choice is somewhere you grew up or went to school for you that be Chicago. And third choice would be place your boots on the ground and for you that’s also Chicago. So checked off two of the boxes and then the fourth, if you want to know, is somewhere you love to visit, might even want to retire. So those are the four options to consider first.
01:27:21:20 – 01:27:30:27
Rod
And and yeah, I mean, we’ve got an asset in Atlanta and it’s taken about a year to evict somebody and they’re just playing it and it’s and it’s killing this professional tenants. Yeah it’s.
01:27:31:00 – 01:27:31:06
Cliff
True.
01:27:31:09 – 01:27:41:00
Rod
It’s exactly right and and it’s killing that particular asset so so so you use your money to buy distressed assets. Talk a little bit about how you find those.
01:27:41:03 – 01:28:05:12
Cliff
Yes. So as you know, you know, real estate is the ultimate team sport. And I compare real estate with football and being a professional athlete because I think football also is the ultimate team sport. You know, we think of Tom Brady, we think of Drew Brees, we think of all these quarterbacks or these elite players. But honestly, if there’s not those five guys in front of them blocking for them, they can’t get down the field.
01:28:05:12 – 01:28:23:09
Cliff
They can’t look as great as they do. And it’s the same thing with real estate. It’s all about building out your team, whether it’s, you know, building relationships with brokers, whether it’s building relationships with bankers, you know, and and I’m big on going to different meet ups and different things like that to just build those relationships, to get into the community.
01:28:23:11 – 01:28:45:19
Cliff
And then again, once they know you’re serious about buying because you’ve purchased a few things or you’re already in the market, they start seeing you deal flow. And that’s how I’m able to find a lot of the deals that I’m in. You know, we we just hire somebody, a real estate analyst, actually, so be able to, you know, run performance and different things like that for me because I’m getting so many so many deals coming my way is start taking too much of my time.
01:28:45:19 – 01:28:53:27
Cliff
So I had to kind of hire someone to be able to do so. But it’s all about, you know, building out that team and building relationships with different folks in the in the markets that I want to be in.
01:28:53:29 – 01:29:09:23
Rod
No, that’s that’s a great answer. I’m going to have you go a little deeper, but that’s a great answer. Yeah. No, I mean, you guys all know you’ve heard me say 2000 times, this is a a team sport. You don’t do this alone. And you know, I tell my new coaching students, my warriors, the most important thing you can do is get connected with other warriors.
01:29:09:23 – 01:29:26:25
Rod
Because we discovered, I don’t know, three and a half, four years ago, our most successful students by far are the ones that are the most connect. And I tell them that’s more important than learning the frickin business because connections, they’re more important because they will ramp your success. And you know, and as it relates to my warrior, so we started doing things to help facilitate those connections.
01:29:26:25 – 01:29:49:10
Rod
We do warrior only events. We’ve got one coming up in the end of April, I think. And then, you know, and then, you know, we do breakout sessions like random speed dating between warriors and just a bunch of things we do to to build those connections because it’s so frickin important. But, you know, you can, you can do the same thing, going to meet ups like you’re doing, you know, and, and, and you talked about hiring an analyst.
01:29:49:10 – 01:30:07:14
Rod
And I’ll tell you, you know, that just ties into this thing being a team sport. I mean I’m I’m not I listen, I can read a PNL, but I don’t love it like I really like it. Okay. And, you know, I’m the mouthpiece. I like to get out there and talk. And and so, you know, my partners have always been either CPAs or incredibly analytical people.
01:30:07:16 – 01:30:26:07
Rod
You met one at the Orlando event, a preacher, Craig was there. But but anyway, you know, that’s that’s what you do. You pick your lane, you pick your superpower, you decide what you’re great at. Obviously, you with your background, your, you know, people want to meet you. They want to talk to you. You know, that’s a draw for sure.
01:30:26:07 – 01:30:44:23
Rod
You want to capitalize on that and then you hire a line or partner for these other things, like you hired an analyst, you might ultimately probably hire an asset manager yourself and so on and so forth. So now I love it. So drilling down on the distressed to. Yes. Okay. So so you have these deals coming across your desk.
01:30:44:23 – 01:30:47:24
Rod
What are you looking for? Tell me what you tell my peeps here, what you’re looking for.
01:30:47:24 – 01:31:19:10
Cliff
So I’m always looking for assets that you can add value to. You know, that’s the name of the game. So whether it’s mismanaged, whether we were talking about going in and renovating the units and understanding kind of what the rents are in that area to renovate the units and bring them up, you know, we like to to buy see plus B minus assets and try to bring them up, you know, to A, B minus B plus type of type of situation to again, create that that value and then going out and refinancing and, you know, kind of hold on to everything again.
01:31:19:17 – 01:31:39:27
Cliff
But I think the biggest thing is obviously knowing the area, obviously knowing kind of job growth, population growth, all these different things, but more so than anything is mismatch. Mismatch as properties are the best ones to go after, you know, because, you know, some folks, they’re not realizing that rents have been you know, they’ve they could bump rents another two or $300.
01:31:39:27 – 01:31:53:22
Cliff
Well, as you know in multifamily, that goes a long way with the unit counts. Right. So we’re looking for those types of assets where we can add value and being able to refinance, you know, within a year or so year, year and a half or so, be able to take out our capital in rent and repeat.
01:31:53:24 – 01:32:19:24
Rod
That’s it. Yeah, that’s it’s called the BR method in the single family space. And but it’s pretty much the same thing you’re talking about mismanage. We’re buying an asset right now in San Antonio. It’s 200 units. It’s it’s a mile and a half away from a 296 unit that I own. And to give you an idea of the deal, it’s it was under contract for 26 million twice fell through we’re getting it for 20 so a hundred 100 grand a door the one right next door sold for 137 a door.
01:32:19:27 – 01:32:56:03
Rod
I mean, so it’s a screamin deal in a lake on one side, golf course on the other side. So very exciting. We’re we’re raising money for right now. By the way, if you’re accredited, text the word partner. 272, three, four, five and and take a look at it or go to creek capital dot com see our capital dot com and check it out We did a webinar on it and it’s a scream and illness filling up fast but very exciting but but again there’s a super value add there and I use an example on that 296 unit that’s near this one we’re buying where we painted numbers in the parking spaces and and said, Hey,
01:32:56:06 – 01:33:05:28
Rod
you can have your own parking space in front of your units, just 25 bucks a month. We had 100 people take it and that was an $800,000 increase in value. Yes. Why? We love this business.
01:33:05:28 – 01:33:26:12
Cliff
Right, Exactly. And to go along with that, because, you know, a lot of people, though, ask why not, you know, single family comparison. And I know you’ve had your issues with single family, but what you just said with multifamily, which was so impressive, is you add you control the value. Yeah, you control the value of your asset based on how much you can bring that in or why.
01:33:26:16 – 01:33:47:13
Cliff
Right. Get your your income up as high as possible, get your expenses as low as possible, and you can continue to create value. And those are the opportunities that I’m looking for, obviously, is where I’m able to create value through, you know, little things like that, whether you added washers and dryers and whatever else. But to add that value, to get that in a way up as much as possible is is the name of the game.
01:33:47:20 – 01:34:12:03
Rod
So the noise, the net operating income, so basically the net income on a property and any increase to that net income is an exponential increase. The value, it’s typically 17 or somewhere between 17 to $20 for every $1 an increase. So it’s significant and in and is in. And Cliff’s comment about single family versus multi-family. With single family, you’re only going to get a value equal to the comparable sales, which you can’t control.
01:34:12:03 – 01:34:32:03
Rod
You don’t own the whole market, so you can’t control the comparable sales. But in commercial real estate, it’s all based on a multiple the net income. So you can absolutely force appreciation that you can’t do in the single family space or the residential multifamily space, even, you know, duplex triplex for plex, you can’t you can’t ramp the value like you can in commercial, commercial multifamily.
01:34:32:05 – 01:34:47:14
Rod
So and I love what you said about areas and that’s exactly what we do as well. We’re looking for a deal either an, A, B and C, A, B or C asset in an A or B area where we can kick butt, ramp it up, improve it and bring it up a notch, bring it up on one level.
01:34:47:14 – 01:35:05:20
Rod
And, you know, I would caution people to buy C minus or D properties right now, caution them not to do that because that demographics getting their butts handed to them, Right. Yeah, it’s sad. You know, I’m single again and so I’m going to the grocery store. I was like, Holy crap, are you kidding me? That was 150 bucks.
01:35:05:20 – 01:35:07:16
Rod
I mean, I don’t know how people afford it, man.
01:35:07:16 – 01:35:09:27
Cliff
I’ll say it all the time. I know inflation is real.
01:35:09:28 – 01:35:34:17
Rod
It’s crazy. And and filling up my truck is like, Are you kidding me? So? So I have a lot of listeners that want to do what you’re doing. Haven’t done it yet, you know, and and find every excuse not to do it. Okay. And it’s typically fear or limiting beliefs, their fear of failure or maybe they’re comfortable and we all know the comfort zones a nice warm place and not a damn thing grows there.
01:35:34:17 – 01:35:42:10
Rod
Yeah right. But you know, talk to those people that that are listening that haven’t taken action on this. Yeah. Tell them what, Tell him, give them some advice.
01:35:42:10 – 01:36:01:06
Cliff
I think. I think and so it’s twofold because I think depending on who you’re listening to, you know, if you’re looking at social media, it’s go big or go home. You know, I mean, with some of these guys and I truly believe you should you should crawl before you walk, whether it’s it’s starting with a small, you know, a single family home and then you build your way up.
01:36:01:09 – 01:36:22:18
Cliff
But it’s all about getting in the game. One thing that’s for sure is people that are sitting on the sideline can never win. You know? I mean, you can’t you can’t win. So I would say the biggest thing is don’t know. You’re going to have to learn to make sure you’re comfortable being uncomfortable because this is the journey to success in any space, entrepreneurship, athletics, whatever it may be like.
01:36:22:18 – 01:36:42:17
Cliff
There’s going to be times where you’re going to doubt your server, going to question yourself, but you learn from the experience regardless if it’s good or bad. There’s always things to be learned from the experience. So I would say you’ve got to jump off the porch, meaning you got to you’ve got to take action. Whether that is getting by on a single family, whether that’s, you know, getting a duplex, whatever it may be, But that’s how you’re going to learn.
01:36:42:17 – 01:36:58:16
Cliff
I tell people this all the time is, you know, I can tell you how to tackle. I can tell you how to tackle Adrian Peterson or somebody like that. But honestly, until you get on the football field and actually try to make a tackle, that’s how you learn. And it’s the same thing with real estate. You know, you can read all the books you want so you can listen to all the podcasts you want to.
01:36:58:23 – 01:37:13:15
Cliff
But until you actually get in the game, that’s when you’ll get the experience. That’s when you’ll learn how to how to, how to actually how the business is ran. And you’ll take your little scars. You take your little bumps in here, here and there, but you’re learning. So when you take that next project on, it’s a little bit easier.
01:37:13:17 – 01:37:28:24
Rod
Yeah, it’s funny. It’s funny. I just had an Instagram live with somebody and I and I disagreed with him because he said, Don’t get into commercial real estate until you’re an expert. I’m like, Dude, how are you going to become an expert if you don’t get into commercial real estate? So we actually did a live and kind of get a little back and forth, a lot of fun.
01:37:28:24 – 01:37:33:19
Rod
He’s a nice guy. But does this exactly what I’m talking about here? You got to actually frickin do it.
01:37:33:19 – 01:37:34:09
Cliff
You got to get in the game.
01:37:34:09 – 01:37:43:23
Rod
Yeah, you got you got to get into the game. So talk about some of the other parallels between the NFL or any team sport like that and and real estate.
01:37:43:25 – 01:38:12:07
Cliff
Well, I think with, with, uh, athletics and why I push athletics on my kids is not to make it to the pros or anything like that. But there’s so many life lessons that I’m realizing with entrepreneurship and being an athlete, right? Whether we’re talking about, you know, just learning how to deal and work with different individual is when you walk into a locker room in AFL, it’s people from all parts of the country that have never had black teammates, that probably hadn’t had white teammates.
01:38:12:07 – 01:38:26:28
Cliff
But on Sundays we all can come together and battle it out for one another, right? We because we respect the fact that you’re putting in work. I’m putting in work, and we’re going to go out here and bust whatever teams, but that we’re going to go out, you know, we’re we’re going to do this together and be brothers.
01:38:27:02 – 01:38:46:01
Cliff
And it doesn’t matter where you’re from. It doesn’t matter what you believe in. It doesn’t any of this stuff doesn’t matter. It’s the same thing in real estate. And what it teaches me as an entrepreneur is when you get into the real world, when you get into this real estate space, it doesn’t matter what people’s backgrounds are. We aligned and what we’re trying to do here, Are we aligned in the type of assets we’re going to go after?
01:38:46:01 – 01:39:08:15
Cliff
Are we align in the business model of cash flow appreciation, whatever it may be? And and what I’ve learned is that that that being in a locker room has taught me to be able to go out into this room, into the real world, into these different spaces, to be able to accomplish my goals. And then going back to the teamwork aspect of it, right again, I brought up some of these quarterbacks.
01:39:08:15 – 01:39:27:13
Cliff
I bring up a good friend of mine. His name is Michael Bennett, a defensive end. Without him, I can’t have the success that I had. And without me he can have the success that I that he had. But it’s the same thing in real estate without my property managers, without my my general contractors, without my brokers, without all these different people, I can’t get that touchdown.
01:39:27:13 – 01:39:49:03
Cliff
And I’m looking to get right. I can’t move down the field if I don’t have the right people on my team. You definitely can’t do it by yourself, you know what I mean? And it’s the same like I said, with football. You can’t do those things by yourself. So in the real estate space or in entrepreneurship in general, you can’t move down the field without having a team of people that you can trust, a team of people that are doing their job, and you don’t need a bunch of people that are doing the same thing either, right?
01:39:49:05 – 01:40:03:09
Cliff
So I think there’s just so many correlations when it comes down to sports and entrepreneurship. But real estate in this particular space is that we need other people. You need teammates to be able to accomplish your goals and to get to the finish line.
01:40:03:10 – 01:40:21:14
Rod
That’s it. That’s it. Honestly, in my opinion, you need it to get through life as well. Yes. Is life lessons. So let me add to that what you just said about this being a team sport. And you know, you talked about different backgrounds, different you know, the team wants the same outcome. It’s the same thing in real estate as is as it in in sports.
01:40:21:16 – 01:40:50:16
Rod
And so because this is a team sport, you’re going to have partners. And, you know, I would also suggest that you see if your core values are aligned. So, you know, and that’s that’s a common thing. You know, I’m in a partnership dispute right now actually, because our core values aren’t aligned and one thing that that I I’ve got incredible resource on this if you go to Rod’s links dot com in the free book session section is a book about the questions you should ask before you get in a partnership.
01:40:50:18 – 01:41:10:00
Rod
And and you know because like a marriage, a partnership is easy to get into and hard to get out of. Okay. And so you want to ask all the hard questions upfront. So again, that’s in Rod’s links. Or you can text the word links to seven two, three, four or five. There’s a bunch of free resources there, but in the Free book section is a great book on asking the right questions before you get into a partnership.
01:41:10:02 – 01:41:33:20
Rod
So I got to kind of a core question for you, Cliff. You know, you’re all you were super successful in the football space, which isn’t handed to anybody. Okay? You’re becoming super successful in the real estate space. What’s the driver here? What’s the why they got you to get your ass up early and run laps after laps after laps and all the things that you do to become an expert.
01:41:33:20 – 01:41:36:20
Rod
And in the NFL, what drove you?
01:41:36:22 – 01:42:04:23
Cliff
Wow, What drove me is my mom, to be honest. Well, yes, my mom and both my parents, but my mom in particular, because I seen the struggle for a Haitian immigrant young lady, My mom only like five to you know, I remember, you know, her being her only child and her having to go pick me up at midnight and walking back home with me on her back to get home, just for her to go back to work at 4:00 or whatever the case may be.
01:42:04:26 – 01:42:16:10
Cliff
So just my mom was my wife. And if you look at, you know, some of my old Facebook posts and different things like that, it’s like my ultimate goal was to be able to get by my mom’s house, like because I lived in apartments my entire life.
01:42:16:10 – 01:42:19:00
Rod
I was just going to ask you what you did for. So tell me about it. Yeah.
01:42:19:00 – 01:42:34:25
Cliff
So, so about 12 years now. About 12 years ago, I was able to actually buy her house and it was my first time living in the house because I bought it for both of us. At the time I wasn’t married or anything like that, so I bought it for both of us. But it was the first time I actually had a front yard.
01:42:34:25 – 01:42:56:19
Cliff
As first time I had a backyard because again, I lived in apartments my entire life. And so to being able to do that for her and we’re actually renovating now. So the house is pretty much brand new again for her. But just being able to do that for her and knowing where she comes from, you know, growing up in Haiti and she would tell me all the time, you know, 300 square feet and a seven of us living in it and, you know, all these different things.
01:42:56:19 – 01:43:20:18
Cliff
So for her to be able to have her own home, have her own car, being able working because she wants to work, not necessarily because she has to work, is is a beautiful thing. And then, of course, your wife grows after a while, right? You start having kids, start having a family. And now my wife is more about making sure that my kids understand the value of a dollar and also making sure my kids are in tune with reality.
01:43:20:18 – 01:43:43:19
Cliff
Because sometimes, you know, based on the lifestyle and different things like that, you know, they they they lose touch and it’s not their fault. It’s actually the parents fault that they lose touch with with what’s going on. So I try to make sure that, you know, they’re still tapped in into with reality, making sure that they work, make sure they understand I’m big on real estate, on financial literacy, because some day I plan on leaving them some some money behind.
01:43:43:23 – 01:44:07:12
Cliff
Well, the worst thing you can do is leave somebody some money that doesn’t know what the heck to do with it. Right. So I want to make sure they’re understanding, you know, just the difference between assets and liabilities and financial literacy. So but my kids are on my way right now, my family on my way. And then going back to what I said earlier, being able to help friends and family also create generational wealth through real estate is is another big component to why I’m doing what I’m doing now.
01:44:07:12 – 01:44:19:21
Cliff
Because, again, I want I want my as they say, you know, fun if your friends can have none. Right. I want my friends to be able to to be able to live a lifestyle that they probably didn’t think they could, you know, ten, 15 years ago.
01:44:19:26 – 01:44:37:14
Rod
Yeah, that’s beautiful, man. That’s beautiful. Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it it. It triggered something with me. I bought my mom and dad a house down here, too. And there’s nothing better than that, you know? And I bought them a car like you and took them on cruises and, you know, guys and those. Are you listening? You’ve got to figure out your why.
01:44:37:19 – 01:44:49:20
Rod
You know, if you come to one of my boot camps, the first thing we do is goal setting on steroids. Clifton And, you know, and you get juice because how do you get anything if you don’t know what the hell it is? You got to know what it is you want, why you want it. That’s the driver. That’s how you push through the fear.
01:44:49:25 – 01:45:04:21
Rod
So you push past limiting beliefs. That’s how you get uncomfortable. And so now that’s a fantastic way. And of course, now it’s kids. That’s how it goes. And you know what you said as well about about keeping them centered and grounded. You know, I made the mistake by my kids cars. Yeah. Biggest mistake ever made in my life.
01:45:04:21 – 01:45:15:01
Rod
I should have made them pay for it. They destroyed them. Now they’ve got nice cars they take care of because they know. But yeah, that was a big mistake for me because I didn’t have anything. And, you know, I wanted to spoil them.
01:45:15:01 – 01:45:38:13
Cliff
But that’s that’s usually the case, though, right? Especially if you come from nothing. You want to you don’t want your kids experience what you experience. Yeah, but what you don’t realize is your experience is why you’re able to get to where you’re at now. Right? Because the journey, the part of the journey is, is is the the hardship, the struggle, the, you know, all the all those different things is what pushes you to get to that finish line, what pushes you to get to where you want to go.
01:45:38:17 – 01:45:56:24
Cliff
And if you don’t have any struggle, you want to appreciate what you receive, you want appreciate what you got, you know? So I think I think that’s extremely important for anybody. Successful really, is to make sure, again, we all want our kids to have a better life than we did. But sometimes that actually ruins your kids, you know me.
01:45:56:26 – 01:46:11:28
Cliff
So I think it’s just important for for us to make sure that they stay grounded, make sure they understand the value of a dollar, understand what again, what financial literacy is as well. So they can kind of you know, they can prosper when they get older and not necessarily be some spoiled little brat.
01:46:11:29 – 01:46:37:28
Rod
Right now I think your psyche has has a book or two to educate kids about literacy. I recall spend decades now. But yeah, So let me ask you this. In this in real estate now or I don’t know, you know what? If you can see a parallel in the NFL career as well, talk about any aha moments that you had any epiphanies and it can be just real estate if you like, but you can pick whatever you like, but just wait where you’re like, okay, now I get it.
01:46:38:02 – 01:47:01:25
Rod
Yeah. Anything come to mind when I say yes? So let me ask you a question. If you really look in the mirror and think about how things are going for yourself and in your life, are you thriving or just surviving? That’s the topic of this week’s On Your Power clip. Now, if you’re just surviving and you know you need to escape the rat race and propel your life forward, you’ve got to take action.
01:47:01:27 – 01:47:24:05
Rod
Now, if you haven’t heard, I’ve got this incredible mentorship program. My students are called My Warriors, and at last count, they own somewhere between 180 and 190,000 units that we know of, just an incredible, extraordinary group of people that are crushing it in the multifamily business. Now, here’s why that’s a big deal. We could be facing the greatest transfer of wealth we seen in our lifetimes with this current economic environment.
01:47:24:07 – 01:47:42:01
Rod
Incredible opportunities already here. I’ve got a deal under contract, it’s a screamer deal and more opportunities just around the corner. Now, if you’d like to inquire into our incredible Warrior program, text the word crush to seven two, three, four, five, and we’ll set up a call. You can look us over, we’ll look you over. Even if it’s not a fit.
01:47:42:02 – 01:47:52:18
Rod
I promise you you’ll leave that call better than when you got on it. So again, text the word crush to seven two, three, four, five. And if you do, you and I will speak soon. All right, let’s get to it.
01:47:52:20 – 01:48:09:09
Cliff
So, I mean, real estate or even the NFL. But I think I think the the big thing for me is being out in Seattle. You know, I’m fortunate enough I get to meet quite a few wealthy individuals, the people that write the checks for the NFL players. Right. And you get to meet them. You get to have dinner with them.
01:48:09:09 – 01:48:28:05
Cliff
You get that. You get to, you know, get to do all these different things. And whether they made their money in tech, whether they made, you know, they sold a company, whatever it may be, a lot of them owned a lot of real estate, you know, And I would always ask my well, you just sold your company for, you know, not millions of dollars or even billions sometimes.
01:48:28:05 – 01:48:47:20
Cliff
And why? Why why real estate, You know, it just kept coming up. Real estate. I own real estate here. I buy apartments here. You know, I got my own family office, whatever it is. And again, I just kept asking the question and whether it be tax advantages, whether it be a wealth builder, whether it be, you know, the cash flow component of it.
01:48:47:22 – 01:49:03:24
Cliff
All those things started is what sparked my mind and my interest in wanting to be in real estate. And then when I closed my first deal and I’m like, Oh, wait up, there’s checks coming in every month there, you know, this is my like, you know, and I look at it honestly, I look at real estate as an annuity plan, like how, you know, people do.
01:49:03:27 – 01:49:23:24
Cliff
You know, you put some money away and you’re creating the cash flow, but also the appreciation on the backside. So just that aha moment of like, oh, this is why they’re doing it. It’s a it’s a it’s a wealth builder on top of what they’ve been able to create already, you know. So I think that was one of the moments where I was like, Oh, okay, you definitely should dive into this.
01:49:23:24 – 01:49:28:16
Cliff
But I also believe in order to have success in anything, you’ve got to be passionate about it. Yeah.
01:49:28:19 – 01:49:33:20
Rod
Write me and let me stop you. And to be passionate, what does that mean?
01:49:33:22 – 01:49:35:11
Cliff
I think you got you got you got to love.
01:49:35:11 – 01:49:49:09
Rod
What you do. That’s it. That’s it. You got to freakin love it. So, you know, if you if you get into multifamily and you can’t love it, you know, you can learn to love anything. You associate pleasure with it. But if you can’t learn to love it, for God’s sakes, go do something. Your life is too frickin short.
01:49:49:13 – 01:49:51:15
Rod
Because when you love it, you can be passionate.
01:49:51:19 – 01:50:06:12
Cliff
Want that in the never feels like work. And I think if you’re passionate about it too, you’re willing to work through those difficult times. Right? Right. If it’s just something you’re doing, it’s easy to quit. It’s always easy. But if you love what you’re doing and this this goes for athletes as well. Like, there’s a lot of sleepless nights.
01:50:06:12 – 01:50:26:16
Cliff
There’s a lot of days where, you know, you’re running by yourself. Nobody sees that stuff. But if your passion and your goals are bigger, then the circumstances that are in front of you go for it. And I think the same thing with real estate. You have to be passionate about it to be able to have some success. And you know, I truly love real estate, like I love everything about it.
01:50:26:16 – 01:50:54:11
Cliff
I love the business of it. I love that you’re creating housing for people, but also obviously the cash flow and being able to create finances for yourself. One thing, 2020, during the pandemic, I was sitting there, I was looking, I was like, Man, there’s probably a lot of people that were looking to retire that year, right? That had their 401k, They had all these different, you know, pension plans or whatever the case may have been.
01:50:54:14 – 01:51:10:09
Cliff
And then 2020 happens and the bottom falls out. And I was like, Whoa, wait up. My plan is just went to crap, right? Because what I thought I was going to have as a nest egg is gone. So to me it’s like, well, I want to take that variable out when it’s time for me to retire. That’s right.
01:51:10:09 – 01:51:22:02
Cliff
I won’t take that very well. So that’s why I’m into the real estate space, cause I want to create my own cash flow. I want to create my own business. So if 2020 does happen or something like that happens again, people are going to need a place to live.
01:51:22:07 – 01:51:40:09
Rod
So, you know, I tell the story about my dad, my dad, my stepfather. So he was really my dad worked for Continental Airlines for 36 years. I mean, loved that company, used to say you could tell a Continental plane because they had the golden tail. We used to call it the proud bird with the brass ass, because they said their tagline was the proud bird with the golden tail.
01:51:40:11 – 01:51:48:06
Rod
And you could always see him up there and he’d make us put our hands over our hearts if one flew by. True story. So he worked for him for 36 years and got laid off.
01:51:48:08 – 01:51:48:26
Cliff
Yeah, man.
01:51:48:27 – 01:51:53:18
Rod
Yeah. Tell me about job security, man. So what you’re talking about is creating your own freakin jobs, creating.
01:51:53:18 – 01:52:10:13
Cliff
Your own job, and not being dependent. I’ve just had this conversation. It’s like, try to control as much as you can, right? And if you’re able to create a business and be able to create your own cash flow, why not? Could be independent of other jobs. And like they’re going to do what’s best for their job. And that might mean firing you.
01:52:10:15 – 01:52:14:00
Cliff
That might mean, you know, and now your life is. And if you’re.
01:52:14:01 – 01:52:16:12
Rod
Not the lead dog, the view never changes.
01:52:16:14 – 01:52:18:18
Cliff
1,000%. 1,000%.
01:52:18:18 – 01:52:47:11
Rod
No. You know, and back to your comment about these wealthy people you meet in Seattle that all get into real estate. You know, there’s a reason 90% of the of the world’s millionaires either made it in real estate or invest their money in the estate, you know, because of all the incredible benefits like you took taxes, cash flow and on and on annuities so so I mean you’re you’re in some different types of real estate now you’re you’re doing some some you’re building some stuff.
01:52:47:13 – 01:52:59:24
Rod
You’re you’ve you got a ground up thing coming. You’re doing some some flips on the high end world and you’re doing some multifamily. What’s next? What what do you think’s the next step here?
01:52:59:26 – 01:53:17:01
Cliff
Well, that’s that’s the cycle for me. The cycle is building these luxury homes, going to buy these distressed properties, renovating them, refinancing and kind of putting that capital back to work again. I am trying we are in the process of developing a 70 unit apartment building.
01:53:17:01 – 01:53:18:00
Rod
77 zero.
01:53:18:03 – 01:53:36:22
Cliff
701 and in Seattle as well. I truly believe when it comes down to developments, you have to be close to that because there’s a lot of moving parts, you know, as you know, with with interest rates and different things, you just got to be in tune a little bit more with with that. So but but my main focus is just buying distressed properties.
01:53:36:24 – 01:53:57:18
Rod
Distressed and they’re coming I mean, like I just described, the one in San Antonio, they’re they’re already coming. There’s a lot of a lot of a lot of operators that got in trouble. They got this adjustable rate originates and it’s a problem. You know. So let me ask you this. What part of real estate, you know, because you’ve got a team and you hired an analyst, what part do you love the most?
01:53:57:21 – 01:54:21:00
Cliff
I think I think the biggest thing there’s some so one on the development side, I think one of the coolest things that you can do is you come up with a concept in your head, Hey, I found this lot. I want to build seven units as an example of what we’re doing. And then, you know, with development that big three, four or five years later, you’re like, Whoa, we really built this.
01:54:21:00 – 01:54:38:18
Cliff
I mean, obviously to get the capital, you got to get what you need. There’s a lot that goes into it. But to be able to get to the finish line, like down, we really built this or the same thing with a distressed property like you put a game plan together and then six months later, a year later, you know, 18 months later, you’re like, well, we’re stabilized.
01:54:38:25 – 01:54:55:21
Cliff
We’re getting the cash flow that we said we’re going to get. We’re we’re in the process of refinancing. So to be able to execute the game plan, I think is one of the more gratifying things. But now also understanding with the game plan, sometimes you got to audible, sometimes you got to you got to you know, you got to pivot a little bit because things don’t always go the way you expect.
01:54:55:21 – 01:55:17:06
Cliff
Not a straight line is not a straight line. So what I’ve learned the most important thing of development or going with distressed properties is making sure that you’re being conservative on your numbers. You always have a reserve. That’s what I like. That’s the biggest thing that I’ve learned over the last few years is things don’t necessarily go the way you expect them to go, but if you have a reserve and you were conservative, once you get, you’ll get to the finish line.
01:55:17:09 – 01:55:24:13
Cliff
But again, sometimes you got to audible is not going to go the way you you planned it that day one, but you can still as long as you keep moving forward, you’re going to be all right.
01:55:24:19 – 01:55:39:07
Rod
That’s it. You keep your eye the goal. You got to change your approach, keeping your eye on the goal. You got to change your approach. Keeping your eye on the goal is just a recipe for success. It’s never a straight line. And and yeah, about reserves. I mean, you know, I’m sure you heard me talk about that. The boot camp, too.
01:55:39:08 – 01:55:47:18
Rod
You know, we never have less than a minimum of six months expenses in reserve, you know, like on that San Antonio deal. It’s like almost 800 grand, just in case.
01:55:47:18 – 01:55:48:20
Cliff
Yeah, I’ll never know.
01:55:48:20 – 01:56:01:28
Rod
Yeah, exactly. Now, I know you have a lot of people come up to you and say, How did you be a success? How did you do this? How do this? Is there a book that you gift more than another? Do you ever just like, say, Hey, go read this or do anything like that?
01:56:01:28 – 01:56:06:11
Cliff
Well, the good I mean, the the the everybody’s rated.
01:56:06:11 – 01:56:06:20
Rod
Rich.
01:56:06:20 – 01:56:17:04
Cliff
Dad, poor dad, of course. But one book that for entrepreneurs that I’ve been I’ve been kind of telling people about is a book I forget the author, but it’s a who, not how.
01:56:17:11 – 01:56:18:17
Rod
Who not how great book.
01:56:18:18 – 01:56:39:18
Cliff
Love that book. Just from a fundamental standpoint of understanding of teamwork. Honestly, hiring the right people to be able to get you to the finish line. Right. So I think that’s the one book that I definitely like a lot is that who not how because it just it teaches you had how to process and how to how to get the right people around you to be able to march down the field to get touchdowns.
01:56:39:22 – 01:56:40:21
Rod
How old are you know.
01:56:40:24 – 01:56:41:08
Cliff
I’m 30.
01:56:41:08 – 01:56:58:16
Rod
Seven. 30. So you look good, buddy. Thank you. Yeah, you look good. I thought you were going to say like, 30. So. So let me ask you this. If you could go back until 18, 19 year old Cliff something is there anything you might shift? Is there anything you might do differently and anything you might expand on or anything like that?
01:56:58:16 – 01:57:11:05
Cliff
I think the only thing that I would change is I wish I would have gotten into investing earlier, investing in real estate earlier. And I know that’s typically most most people’s answer.
01:57:11:07 – 01:57:15:26
Rod
Sorry to interrupt. Did you blow a lot of money when you were young? Did you go off and do the Lamborghini and all that stupid shit?
01:57:15:26 – 01:57:32:10
Cliff
Like I didn’t go too crazy, but I did. I mean, looking back at it, some of the stuff I did was dumb. I didn’t feel like I was broke or anything by any means, but like when I first got drafted, I bought a Escalade brand new. And, you know, it was it was it was a dream car and all these different things, but it wasn’t the right timing.
01:57:32:10 – 01:57:41:00
Cliff
But thank God I was able to write my wrongs by being able to play a long time, because as most people know, I mean, in the NFL, the average is less than three years. Right? Right.
01:57:41:00 – 01:57:43:19
Rod
And they you know, they end up with a big entourage.
01:57:43:19 – 01:57:44:08
Cliff
That, oh, man.
01:57:44:13 – 01:57:45:29
Rod
The money right out of them. Yeah.
01:57:45:29 – 01:57:52:26
Cliff
And financial literacy plays a big role, too. Like, you know, like not knowing. And I think this is a America issue, right?
01:57:52:29 – 01:57:53:23
Rod
Yes, it is.
01:57:53:26 – 01:58:13:11
Cliff
Like we’re not financially literate and so we want to spend more than we make. We we want to by keeping up with the Joneses, all these types of things. And it gets a lot of young players in trouble. But the problem is not only do we all make mistakes, the average is less than three. So. So you don’t even get the chance to right those wrongs.
01:58:13:11 – 01:58:33:12
Cliff
You don’t get to learn from those mistakes again. Fortunately for me, being able to play ten years, beating the odds by three, I did make some mistakes, but I was able to learn along the journey. So now I’m in a place where I have a better understanding, a better grasp on my finances, and an understanding that, again, cash flow is everything and and trying to build those things out.
01:58:33:12 – 01:58:36:01
Cliff
But unfortunately, most guys don’t get them right. They’re wrong.
01:58:36:05 – 01:58:43:05
Rod
Have you ever tried to add value to some of these young players and these teammates and things like that, showing them what you’re doing? And.
01:58:43:05 – 01:58:59:17
Cliff
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. I talked to quite a few of my guys, especially now that they know I’m into the real estate space. A lot of guys are reaching out, but I do a lot of things with the Seahawks as well. You know, they bring me in every summer to start the guys about real estate, talking about multifamily.
01:58:59:19 – 01:59:19:20
Cliff
Not all teams are like that, but the Seattle Seahawks are really good with making sure that they’re pouring back into the kids, pouring back to these guys because because they know that average is less than three years. They know that the that your career is actually closer to being over with than you expect as a young player and, you know, as a as a as a player in the NFL.
01:59:19:20 – 01:59:44:29
Cliff
And I’ve experienced this is, you know, we walk into that locker room thinking that three years is not me. I’m going to play ten years, of course. Right. But you need that confidence. You need that that that that ego a little bit to get through it. But again, for unfortunately, that’s not the case for most guys. But the Seahawks do a great job from day one, making sure guys are understanding what to do with their money, make sure they’re not just handed their money over to people and not knowing what’s going on with it.
01:59:45:01 – 01:59:46:25
Cliff
And to start just thinking outside the box.
01:59:46:28 – 01:59:48:23
Rod
That really says a lot about the brand, too.
01:59:48:25 – 01:59:49:08
Cliff
No doubt.
01:59:49:13 – 02:00:05:18
Rod
Was there any fear when you got started in real estate? I mean, was there any I mean, of course you’ve got you had some resources, so you probably had money in the bank. So it wasn’t quite as scary as it might be for someone that doesn’t have your resources. But was there fear number one? And if so, how did you get over it?
02:00:05:21 – 02:00:34:10
Cliff
Of course, I think there’s always fear in trying anything new right? When you don’t know, when you don’t know what that landscape looks like, what’s to come, how to the entire approach, you know. So, yeah, there was definitely fear initially. But I think again, going back to what I said earlier, the the only way you get through that fear, the only way you, you, you learn is by jumping in the game is being.
02:00:34:12 – 02:00:51:21
Cliff
And again, I like I said, I like to crawl before I walk. So the first thing I did when I retired were and my first rental was I’m like, you know what? I’m going to I’m going to buy a condo and I’m going to only rent it to athletes in the Seattle market, right? I’m going to only rent it to two because I knew what they needed.
02:00:51:21 – 02:01:06:07
Cliff
I was going to furnish it. I knew they were only going to be there, you know, eight months out of the year. I knew they weren’t going to be in the actual unit much because their work schedule, I understood all that stuff. So like, all right, I’m going to go. It was comfortable. I’m going to go with what I know I’m going to rent out to these guys.
02:01:06:07 – 02:01:28:11
Cliff
Did it work? It worked great and I still own those. I own three condos that I do that with now. But what I started realizing is you can make more money in other spaces, whether it be multifamily condos. Have these oases or they kill you. But rents are so high because these guys are doing shorter term rents, it pencils, but it’s not a good solid business plan.
02:01:28:11 – 02:01:45:26
Cliff
Right? But I still own those, but that’s what I started off with. And then I then after I did a few single family stuff, I went and bought a triplex. I’m like, okay, let’s see what this feels like. Seattle Triplex actually was a Chicago, okay, a forgot rehab value add. We were able to refinance, pull out 95% of our capital.
02:01:45:28 – 02:01:56:07
Cliff
My okay, this works. Then we went about a bigger asset and and just kept building from there instead of I’m glad I went in that way because I learned something when I had a single family. I learned some stuff when I had the time.
02:01:56:07 – 02:01:57:13
Rod
You do a full gut, you learn a.
02:01:57:13 – 02:02:13:10
Cliff
Lot, you learn a lot. So now you know what to look for when you go by the 58, You know what to look for when you go buy a 100 units, right? So that that was kind of my game plan and how I approached the game. But of course, you constantly learn it. I think I think you learn from good or bad.
02:02:13:11 – 02:02:14:14
Cliff
You just got to be paying attention.
02:02:14:14 – 02:02:17:14
Rod
Bad for a minute. So talk about it. Talk about, you know, I them seminars.
02:02:17:14 – 02:02:17:23
Cliff
Yes.
02:02:17:23 – 02:02:29:14
Rod
And no one’s I haven’t met anybody that had a bigger seminar than I did in oh eight. But talk about a seminar you had. Yes. You got your ass handed to you. And maybe the lesson in it, if there if you if something comes to mind and I know you got tons of them. Sure.
02:02:29:16 – 02:02:51:15
Cliff
Oh, yeah, Yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, we got seminars left and right and. But it’s all about not letting it stop you. Right, Right. But so yeah, I have a, a 14 unit for gut rehab that, that we were working on. We budgeted out, got the contractors out, get bids, all these different things but contract you know you can’t go with the cheapest that’s for sure.
02:02:51:15 – 02:03:21:29
Cliff
That’s one thing I’ve learned. But then also once we got into the process and, you know, start the renovation, you go through the permitting process and all this stuff, I’m starting to realize like, okay, our budgets are off and we were off by about 300,000 bucks. Actually. That’s a bit yeah, exactly. It was off by 300. But but fortunately enough, there was so much meat on the bone from a value add perspective and the rents were gradually going up throughout the process, were able to recoup some of that on the refinance still.
02:03:22:06 – 02:03:41:21
Cliff
But being able to like being over budget by 300 K and you can’t go to these private lenders indefinitely now you’re like, okay, like what do we do? You know? And again, fortunately for me, I have different resources that I was able to use, whether it be, you know, different margin loans and different things like that to be able to recoup some of those funds back for the project.
02:03:41:21 – 02:04:01:04
Cliff
But a lot learned there because, again, it goes back to the reserve component. It goes back to, you know, just having different contingencies and different things like that in your proforma to make sure that your, you know, you’re well allocated, you you have enough to get you to the finish line, It’s better to have more money and not use it all, then not have enough and have to go find it.
02:04:01:04 – 02:04:17:00
Rod
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. So in your life, your whole life, buddy, what do you think’s the biggest obstacle you had to overcome Myself? Oh, good answer. Oh, good answer.
02:04:17:02 – 02:04:22:23
Cliff
Talk about fear. You talk about doubt. Yeah. Not feeling worthy enough.
02:04:22:25 – 02:04:23:14
Rod
You had that, too.
02:04:23:20 – 02:04:25:21
Cliff
Yeah. Yeah.
02:04:25:23 – 02:04:26:12
Rod
I don’t deserve.
02:04:26:12 – 02:04:46:21
Cliff
This. Why me? How argue here, you know, or. And honestly, so I. I just brought back my last two family members that were in Haiti, you know, So I don’t have any more family members in Haiti now. But I always look at it like, wow, you could have easily been one of those kids that was born in Haiti.
02:04:46:21 – 02:05:03:01
Cliff
Like, why did my grandfather pick my mother and send her to the States instead of her other three or four siblings? Right. Like those those are questions that I’ve always had to ask myself. And then now, more so than anything, he’s like, No, just take advantage of the opportunity. Like stop asking why more so, like understanding that you’re here for a reason.
02:05:03:01 – 02:05:25:20
Cliff
You’re here to be able to help them come here, to be able to, to, to support and do for others. You’re here to serve people. Right? But the biggest obstacle was, was myself and and the doubt that I would create mentally, you know, leaving Jacksonville, Florida, going to Indiana, never been out, never left Florida outside of going to Haiti up until I started getting recruited for school.
02:05:25:22 – 02:05:42:24
Cliff
So now I’m in a whole different area and like just trying to navigate those waters, like, should I be here? Do I fit in, you know, all these different things that you you kind of uncertainty. Yeah, you just you just you just And no one likes being uncertain about anything, right? So all of those moments, you know, you just start to create doubt.
02:05:42:24 – 02:05:44:10
Rod
But imposter syndrome.
02:05:44:11 – 02:06:04:16
Cliff
Oh, is this real survivor’s remorse? Like, it’s it’s. Oh, it’s all kinds of things that you go through and you just doubt yourself. You start to ask questions or what not. But I think I think all but being able to work through that, though, is what makes you gives you it gives you that strength, right? Strong Exactly. Gives you that strength to be able to bounce back.
02:06:04:16 – 02:06:20:06
Cliff
So but yeah, the doubt doubt in myself, I think would be the the biggest obstacle that I had. And battling yourself is tough. You know I mean other people, you can kind of block them out. You can you know, you can you can stay away from them. But if you’re in your own head, sometimes it’s tough to get out of it.
02:06:20:06 – 02:06:24:18
Cliff
But, you know, once you get through it, though, you know, it makes you stronger.
02:06:24:18 – 02:06:39:28
Rod
Know that that answer helped just about everybody listening, because that is probably one of the biggest things you’ve got it. You’ve got to get out of your own way. You’ve got to trust in anything you give your full energy and effort to is going to flourish, period. If you if you truly give it yes, truly give it everything, not half ass.
02:06:39:28 – 02:06:47:19
Rod
And and you’ve got to believe in yourself. And the only way you can believe in yourself and build self self-confidence. This is by doing yes only what you can.
02:06:47:21 – 02:06:50:13
Cliff
Agree by doing, but also how you talk to yourself is.
02:06:50:13 – 02:06:56:01
Rod
Huge too. Oh yeah. The questions you ask yourself why question. Yeah, another why questions is the whole.
02:06:56:01 – 02:06:57:24
Cliff
Question Exactly, Exactly.
02:06:57:26 – 02:07:18:22
Rod
And by the way, we’re we’re a map. Where are my questions? Because I’ve got a list of questions, personal questions that that they could they could links to. Oh, it’s on links. Yeah. We’ve had it almost everything. Oh fantastic. So, guys, if you go to Rod’s links, I’ve got hundreds of questions you should ask yourself. Not just not just.
02:07:18:22 – 02:07:34:27
Rod
And some of them are business. A lot of them are business related, but a lot of them are personal questions, you know, to help you, you know, get in touch with parts of yourself that you don’t normally think about. Who loves me, who do I love? Why do I deserve this? Well, you know, there’s just a whole bunch of them there.
02:07:34:27 – 02:07:51:09
Rod
And that’s there at Rod’s links as well. Again Text links, 272, three, four, five there in the free book section. So because your life really revolves around the quality of the questions you ask yourself, because they direct you in, you know, either negatively or positively.
02:07:51:09 – 02:08:08:12
Cliff
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And, and what you just believe in, like it will affect how you believe in yourself a little fuck, how you believe in what’s going on in your life and what you’re doing. So you definitely have to watch kind of what the thoughts are in your head because it can either take you the right direction or it can take you, take you under what.
02:08:08:12 – 02:08:25:14
Rod
Whatever you focus on is what’s going to grow positive or negative. And a lot of people, you know, we connect through negative, you know, like if if, if you go up to somebody, say how you do and they’re like, Oh, I’m fantastic. God, life’s amazing. Most people step back and say, okay, he’s office manager. Yeah, but if you go up to somebody, say, How you doing?
02:08:25:14 – 02:08:40:13
Rod
They’re like, Oh man, oh, my back is killing me. I just lost 20 grand, blah, blah, blah. They put their arm around you and say, Oh, I feel your brother. We collect through, we connect through pain and negativity and you can’t do that. You want to go. You got to be around people that want more out of life.
02:08:40:13 – 02:08:49:06
Rod
That’s the reason my Warriors are killing it. It’s because, you know, there are people that want more out of life. So you got to be really protective of who you are. A lot of influence. You would you agree with that.
02:08:49:06 – 02:09:16:18
Cliff
1,000%? I mean, attitude and all that stuff is contagious, too, right? Right. So who you surround yourself with, I mean, what do they say? You know, show you five friends. I’ll show you kind of what your future looks like, Right? It’s all it’s all about the attitude, the mindset that people have and is contagious. Right. If someone if you’re around downers all day, people that are negative and all these that like you’re going to find yourself being negative, questioning yourself and, this the same thing with you when you’re around positive people, right?
02:09:16:18 – 02:09:25:03
Cliff
So I agree who you surround yourself with and the type of information and the type of energy that they’re giving off is very contagious. So you’ve got to be careful with that.
02:09:25:05 – 02:09:32:09
Rod
Do you have any sort of a ritual, like a morning ritual or a routine or anything that helps you set the day off? Right?
02:09:32:13 – 02:09:44:26
Cliff
Oh, every morning, every morning, at least five out of the seven days I get up and pray, That’s every day I get up and pray. But every morning I get up and go work out. No, I have to. And I’m playing a lot of pickleball now.
02:09:44:27 – 02:09:49:03
Rod
I’m just putting pickleball courts in that. San Antonio said, I don’t even know what day it is.
02:09:49:03 – 02:10:05:25
Cliff
Yeah, pickleball. It’s all right. I’ll check it. I’m actually part owner of a a major League Pickleball team. Oh, okay. Yeah, but I love pickleball, so I’ll play that for an hour and a half every morning. And then I hit the weight room for another hour. Wow. I have to. I set my days off every single day like that.
02:10:05:27 – 02:10:12:15
Cliff
But more than anything, I just feel good about myself. Once I’m done right, you get. I don’t know. Is that what it? Endorphins. And it’s a completion thing.
02:10:12:15 – 02:10:14:17
Rod
It’s the endorphins thing. It’s the dopamine thing.
02:10:14:22 – 02:10:15:13
Cliff
It’s everything.
02:10:15:13 – 02:10:16:19
Rod
I have you cold plunge.
02:10:16:20 – 02:10:18:02
Cliff
You are big. I’m big on that, too.
02:10:18:03 – 02:10:35:21
Rod
Oh, dude, I got one right back here, man. I just did it right before you got 5 minutes loving it. I mean, I’m frickin loving it. I do it every day for 5 minutes, but. Yeah, no, I love it. So. So do you have any quotes that have juiced you over the years? Anything that comes to mind? If not, it’s cool.
02:10:35:23 – 02:10:36:27
Rod
And Oh.
02:10:36:29 – 02:11:01:15
Cliff
Yeah, I mean, I have all kinds of quotes, but I was just one quote that, that, that comes to mind, especially for athletes or entertainers or whatever. But and I told my mom, my brother this because he’s he’s kind of he’s coming up the ranks as far as for the entertainment space or whatever. But is is if you live for the cheers, you’re die by the booth.
02:11:01:18 – 02:11:05:11
Cliff
Meaning if you are.
02:11:05:14 – 02:11:05:21
Rod
If you’re.
02:11:05:21 – 02:11:24:05
Cliff
Looking for if you’re looking for people to hype you up and you’re looking for people to acknowledge and applaud you all the time, well, when that leaves, because it will and I’ve experienced it to a certain degree, if you live for that, then when you don’t receive it.
02:11:24:07 – 02:11:25:07
Rod
You’re you feel loss.
02:11:25:08 – 02:11:39:03
Cliff
Yeah, you feel loss. Right. So I’m big on that and making sure that I’m centered in myself. I’m centered in and God and also just making sure that I’m I’m not looking for the tears because I do want to talk about the booth.
02:11:39:05 – 02:11:54:02
Rod
You’re doing it for yourself. Yeah, that’s that’s the that’s the key piece there. And, you know, I’m sure you’ve got lots of them, but certainly in the NFL space, do you have any mentors that you’d like to acknowledge that that that have that have voted for you?
02:11:54:03 – 02:12:13:13
Cliff
Yes. I’ll acknowledge more on the business side right now. All my guys that that have helped me through the NFL, whether it’s a guy named Calvin Abbas who took me underneath his wing when I was young, defensive end. He’s probably gonna be a Hall of Famer at some point. He took me under his wing and allowed me to know what it is to be a pro right now.
02:12:13:13 – 02:12:41:04
Cliff
On the business side of things, I only hang around business folks that are doing way better than me. I’m talking about again guys that are that are crushing because at some point, you know, one, that stuff rubs off on you. And then we talk about the top five people that you hang out with. So your future, right? Whether it’s a guy by the name of Eric Anderson who who started a company when he was in his thirties or something like that, he he started a company back in the day where he actually sent people to space like billionaires.
02:12:41:07 – 02:12:58:05
Cliff
Millionaires would pay a crazy amount of money to go to space. Right? So someone like him or a guy by the name B.J. Cooler, who’s big into the real estate space out in Seattle, who I mean, they probably have a few billion dollars of of assets under management. Right. So I would list those two for the time being.
02:12:58:05 – 02:13:05:24
Cliff
But there’s quite a few guys that that, you know, that I hang out with that that teach me a lot in the real estate space and entrepreneur space.
02:13:05:25 – 02:13:24:25
Rod
Nice, nice, nice. I have to tell you, Cliff, one thing that just frankly blew me away when I started reading your bio and is you’re real humble guy because you really didn’t even bring it up before we got started here. But you’ve got a foundation. Yes, sir. Talk about that. Talk about that.
02:13:24:27 – 02:13:48:26
Cliff
Yes. We have the Cliff Edge Family Foundation. We’ve had it for the last 12 years and is geared towards, you know, diabetes, but also the education system in Haiti. We’ve built a school in Haiti. We’ve built homes in Haiti. Then we do a lot of work with diabetes because diabetes is very prevalent in the Haitian in the black community, but particularly the Haitian community based on their diet.
02:13:48:28 – 02:14:18:18
Cliff
And you know, you know, a lot of rice and different things like that. So we do a lot of work with them. But now we’re doing I have this other component of the foundation called the Cliff’s Crew. And what what it’s about is I’ve been mentoring these young boys since they were in third grade. Now they’re in eighth and ninth grade and that the reason behind the Cliff’s crew is we want to show them that that there’s other professions in their own backyard.
02:14:18:18 – 02:14:40:02
Cliff
Being Seattle currently. But for for whatever reason, not even for whatever reason before for a lot of kids in America, you know, success looks like being an athlete or entertainer, right. And unfortunately, there’s only so many slots, right. I think of high school kids that actually get to make it to the pros, I think is 0.001% that actually make us that are pros, Right.
02:14:40:08 – 02:14:46:02
Cliff
Not saying none of those kids can make it, but having other ways of looking at success and oh.
02:14:46:04 – 02:14:46:15
Rod
That’s so.
02:14:46:19 – 02:15:06:25
Cliff
I give them the I give this example all the time. So I took him to the V Maxx, which is the practice facility for the Seattle Seahawks. If you go into that building, every profession you can think of is in there. Whether you talk about lawyers, accountants, doctors, chefs whatever you can think of is in that building. But you don’t know that unless you’re privy to unless somebody exposes you to it.
02:15:06:25 – 02:15:25:05
Cliff
So we’re all about exposure and when we want a Super Bowl, guess what? Every one of those guys got a Super Bowl ring, too, because they play a role in the success of the Seattle Seahawks, Right? So you’re able to win Super Bowl rings without even getting on the field. Right. But like being exposed to that and knowing that this exists is the first step.
02:15:25:12 – 02:15:46:26
Cliff
And that’s what the Colts crew is all about, is exposing these kids to different professions that they can be and have success. They’ll be able to change their lives, change the lives of their families without actually necessarily being on the TV screen, without actually being a, you know, entertainer of some sort. So we just want expose them and make sure that they know they can be successful in any any way as long as they put their minds to it.
02:15:47:01 – 02:16:06:02
Rod
So freaking good, brother. I can’t even tell you that. That’s so good. That’s so brilliant, because it, it, it it gives them options and, you know, and again, you’re so freakin humble. Not only did you build a school for. For serving 500 kids, you built 25 homes in Haiti. You know, you’ve got your hosts quarterly mobile health clinics.
02:16:06:04 – 02:16:27:24
Rod
You teach football to 300 youth annually. I’m guys this list goes on and on and on. You know, he supports different clinics and other causes and again, I mean, it just goes on and on, which just blew me away. And and I got to tell you and I was mentioning this to you before we started recording Cliff, you know, I did a Hall of Fame award for Success Warriors.
02:16:28:00 – 02:16:45:13
Rod
We do it every year. I mean, every live event. And you were there and so on. And, you know, we do a slide for each one of them and and you to notice that every single one of them gives back. This is what we call a clue, guys. Okay. Here you got somebody who was literally the best in the world at what he did.
02:16:45:16 – 02:16:50:24
Rod
And and and giving back because power moves to those who serve.
02:16:50:24 – 02:16:52:16
Cliff
Right. No doubt the way it works.
02:16:52:16 – 02:16:53:24
Rod
And that’s the way God works.
02:16:53:24 – 02:16:57:20
Cliff
I think obviously, I think all of us are here to serve one another.
02:16:57:22 – 02:17:12:00
Rod
Contribution is a basic human need. Yes, unfortunately, as some people don’t realize it. Yes. But we were put on this earth to contribute. And honestly, frankly, anything on earth that doesn’t contribute ultimately gets eliminated. Yeah, it’s the way.
02:17:12:00 – 02:17:28:12
Cliff
That’s the way. Yeah, that’s how it works. Now, I agree. I think I think we’re here to serve one another. I think we’re here to do for one another. I don’t think anybody is better than the next person. And and I think that’s where ego and everything else comes into play because, you know, we start feeling like we’re better than the next person.
02:17:28:12 – 02:17:49:27
Cliff
Like, no, you put your pants on just like the next person you believe. Just like the next person that we try to find all these different things that separates us. But in all, in our reality, we’re we’re, we’re more alike than not, right? And we’re here to do for one another. And, and and I it was interesting hearing know some of the warriors and you know, all the different things that they’re doing and around the world and giving back or whatever.
02:17:50:03 – 02:17:57:06
Cliff
But I think for me, you know just again, my upbringing and seeing my mom see my mom come to the states.
02:17:57:06 – 02:17:57:15
Rod
Struggling.
02:17:57:18 – 02:18:07:18
Cliff
Working, working these jobs, but not only struggling, you know, I’m seeing, you know, that the lights might get cut off and different things like that. But she still would find ways to send money back to Haiti, to her family.
02:18:07:20 – 02:18:09:26
Rod
Right. So she was your inspiration for that.
02:18:09:29 – 02:18:11:09
Cliff
Exactly. Exactly.
02:18:11:12 – 02:18:13:03
Rod
You’re teaching your kids this stuff, too.
02:18:13:05 – 02:18:24:29
Cliff
No doubt. They go to all these trips with me. They’re there. They’re seeing it. We do a lot of different things over the holiday seasons. And if my mom can give with the little bit that she had. Yeah, who am I not to give back with what I what?
02:18:24:29 – 02:18:25:19
Rod
Excuse them you.
02:18:25:19 – 02:18:27:04
Cliff
Got. I have no excuse. I know.
02:18:27:08 – 02:18:42:04
Rod
So it’s beautiful, man. Well, listen, I am super impressed with you, my friend, and it’s such a treat to have you on the show and have you add value and inspire. And. And I can’t wait to see where you are a year from to a year or two from now. Man, I appreciate it.
02:18:42:04 – 02:18:58:05
Cliff
I appreciate. But I want to I want to I want to give you your your flowers as well, in a sense. Like I’ve been following you, like I said, for the last three or four years to see what you’ve been able to do with the war. You see what you the commitment that you have as far as for helping people be able to create cash flow and generational wealth.
02:18:58:05 – 02:19:18:08
Cliff
Real estate, your platform is needed, your platform is needed, and A lot of people are paying attention whether they are warrior or not, but people are paying attention. And I appreciate it because it also gives me something. I mean, when I’m working out, I’m listen, I’m waiting on your shows every, you know, the you have the five minute little clip that you give that that that’s motivating and then you give you your clips or whatnot.
02:19:18:08 – 02:19:24:22
Cliff
So I pay attention as well. And it’s definitely helpful as I go on my journey as well. So keep up the great work, man. I appreciate.
02:19:24:22 – 02:19:26:26
Rod
It. Oh, that’s kind of you, brother. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
02:19:27:01 – 02:19:47:17
Intro
Thank you for listening to the lifetime cash flow through Real Estate Investing podcast. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and leave your comments for more resources or to connect with us further. Please visit our website at Rod dot com. Tune in next week for our next show.
