Jay Biggins, a seasoned entrepreneur with over 23 years of expertise in enhancing multifamily assets, founded Multihousing.com in 2000. He is dedicated to transforming neglected multifamily housing into vibrant, affordable communities. Jay’s knack for adding value is evident through his focus on curb appeal, amenity upgrades, and community improvement, all resulting in superior returns. With over 150 successful transactions under his belt, Jay specializes in repositioning various affordable housing types, including USDA RD MF Housing Units, Condo Conversions, Historical MF Properties, and LIHTC MF Acquisitions & Operations. His commitment to community betterment sets him apart in the industry, fostering lasting relationships with both sellers and buyers.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- Jay’s First Multifamily Properties
- Qualifying a Property Before You Buy It
- The Buy and Sell Multifamily Business Model
- The Best Advice For When To Buy Multifamily Properties
- The Balance Between Family, Life, & operating Multifamily
- Multifamily Shark Tank
- Different Ways Around Raising Capital
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
Full Transcript Below
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:18:24
Rod
Welcome to another edition of Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif and I am absolutely thrilled you’re here and you guys are in for a real treat today. We got an absolute rock star on the business here today. His name is Jay Biggins and he owns Multi Housing.com and he’s forgotten more about multifamily than you and I will probably ever know.
00:00:18:24 – 00:00:25:22
Rod
And so I’m very, very excited to get into, I’m sure, a wide ranging conversation with Jay. Welcome to the show, brother.
00:00:25:25 – 00:00:29:19
Jay
Thank you, sir. Very kind. Maybe a little bit too kind, but I appreciate it.
00:00:29:25 – 00:00:49:06
Rod
I think it’s dead on. And so why don’t you start, you know, by just you know, I know you’ve done a ton of stuff on the affordable housing space and just kind of give us a little bit of your background. Did you start in real estate? Did you start somewhere else? Why did you end up in multifamily? You know, some highlights, some your career so far and.
00:00:49:06 – 00:00:49:18
Rod
Yeah.
00:00:49:19 – 00:01:04:24
Jay
Okay. Well, it’s my start’s probably a little bit unconventional and certainly a little bit embarrassing. But mostly I started in multifamily because I, I, I really couldn’t get a job at the time. So I started buying duplexes and triplexes when.
00:01:04:24 – 00:01:06:27
Rod
When.
00:01:06:29 – 00:01:19:03
Jay
Probably around 2000. Wow. That sort of business had a non-compete. And so I was just kind of displaced. So I started, yeah, like I said, buying small properties. And then.
00:01:19:03 – 00:01:20:17
Rod
In, in West Palm.
00:01:20:19 – 00:01:38:16
Jay
It started Palm Beach County and I was five, maybe maybe six units, 12 units. And then I started doing condo conversions while that was a thing. And then the market started to shift. And as actually as the market shifted, I thought, Oh man, what am I going to do now? I can’t buy these buildings and convert to condos and sell them out and nobody’s buying condos anymore.
00:01:38:16 – 00:01:59:01
Jay
So I started buying apartment complexes and I thought that I was going to have to, you know, just make a living just on the cash flow. But what I quickly realized was that the upside was tremendous if you value add. And so we started, you know, buying, you know, little bit larger deals, still small, very small, 40, 50 unit properties.
00:01:59:01 – 00:02:00:20
Jay
And then after.
00:02:00:20 – 00:02:01:21
Rod
All, in Florida, still.
00:02:01:25 – 00:02:15:22
Jay
Generally Florida, North Carolina, going back to the early 2000. Mm hmm. And then, you know, I had one property that I ended up making a really nice gain on, and it allowed me to start doing two deals at a time instead of just one deal a year.
00:02:15:22 – 00:02:17:23
Rod
And this was all with your own personal.
00:02:17:24 – 00:02:19:10
Jay
Yeah. I’ve never been in syndicate.
00:02:19:10 – 00:02:20:15
Rod
You didn’t raise capital.
00:02:20:17 – 00:02:27:21
Jay
You know how well. But yeah, I started buying two deals at a time. And then four, and then five and then seven and ten.
00:02:27:21 – 00:02:31:08
Rod
And this was all pre-crash. Or after the crash.
00:02:31:10 – 00:02:49:09
Jay
It led up to the crash, Right. And then, you know, that’s when I had made my first really large gain, probably 2010, and started being able to do multiple deals at a time. So, you know, now in any given time, you know, I’m buying and selling a thousand units simultaneously. Really?
00:02:49:10 – 00:02:50:06
Rod
Still, even today?
00:02:50:07 – 00:02:53:14
Jay
Yeah. I mean, today I’m I’m pretty bullish, actually.
00:02:53:16 – 00:03:11:26
Rod
I’ve been we talked about that briefly before we started recording because I’m a massive bear right now because, you know, you don’t know this about me, but I lost $50 million in 2008 and I got my ass handed to me. So, you know, I’m dragging around that bag of memory and and things feel eerily similar to me. I mean, there are a lot of differences, but.
00:03:11:26 – 00:03:26:25
Jay
But which is why you should be bullish. Okay, So it’s a paradigm shift, right? Like everybody sees the world through their own eyes and through their own certain set of glasses. So really, you were a victim of your own success. You have to first make $50 million to lose five.
00:03:26:25 – 00:03:27:25
Rod
Very true. Yeah.
00:03:27:25 – 00:03:37:22
Jay
So if if you’re seeing some parities, which I agree with you wholeheartedly, what does that tell you? That tell you there’s some opportunities? Oh, no, no.
00:03:37:24 – 00:03:53:22
Rod
Trust me, you didn’t hear that side of my conversation. I mean, I’m in a lot of cash right now. I’m rubbing my hands together. I mean, no, no, I’m looking at it as opportunity. And that’s what I talk about on the show. But I’m not bearish on the opportunity. I’m bearish on the economy and what’s going on.
00:03:53:22 – 00:04:13:18
Jay
I understood agree wholeheartedly there, too. You know, so I’ve been fairly pessimistic for like the last five or six or seven years. Right. Because I’ve just felt like, you know, we’re going to go off a cliff right now. We didn’t exactly go off a cliff, but the market’s gotten significantly worse over the past 12 or 18 months and probably will for a little bit longer.
00:04:13:20 – 00:04:15:20
Jay
But I think it’s a really healthy market.
00:04:15:27 – 00:04:34:23
Rod
Well, I do, too. Well, okay. Healthy market. Interesting, I think. I think there needs to be some resettling, for lack of a better word. But, you know, there’s 1.6 trillion in commercial debt coming due by the end of next year. I mean, and they either have to refinance or they have to sell. Sales are down 75% year over year.
00:04:34:23 – 00:04:40:16
Rod
First quarter. I don’t know what second quarter looks like, but but refinancing is not easy right now because the rates and.
00:04:40:16 – 00:04:47:22
Jay
Everything I listen to all that all the time. I just want to shoot myself. So I try not to listen all this time so we know it’s looming.
00:04:47:22 – 00:04:48:13
Rod
Right.
00:04:48:15 – 00:05:14:19
Jay
But if you run to like safety plays, which I have my own little formula on a safety play, you’re going to be all right now, tomorrow, the next day, the day after. I agree there’s controllable and uncontrollable risks. So, you know, what are the uncontrollable risks? Well, interest rates, insurance, insurance. Sure. So let’s manage and mitigate with what we know now about those things.
00:05:14:21 – 00:05:26:02
Jay
And if we’re resetting prices based on where those are today and we all think that maybe they get better tomorrow, but maybe they don’t. But if you’re underwriting on those basis today, I think you’re pretty good shape.
00:05:26:02 – 00:05:41:05
Rod
So I agree if they make sense with all of that. But please, I agree. But here’s the thing. You know, the reason I think we’re going to see more opportunity than than we may think. You know, there’s a lot of bridge debt done the last couple of years and those guys are sucking wind. I’m just telling you. Well, I see it.
00:05:41:05 – 00:05:48:03
Rod
I’ve friends big, super successful, impressive operators that are that are freaking out right now. So.
00:05:48:05 – 00:06:00:16
Jay
Well, it’s got to come right like there’s a reckoning that has to happen. Yeah. I just don’t know that it’s necessarily going to be catastrophic. It will be for some people. If you lose all your money, it’s catastrophic, right? I don’t plan on losing any money right now.
00:06:00:16 – 00:06:15:28
Rod
Same, same, same. But, you know, I do think, you know, like I said, I know some large operators that, you know, we were talking about Grant earlier. I saw one of them at Grant’s Growth column that I went to in Vegas. And this a guy I really respect, I’m not going to say his name, but but he was sweating.
00:06:15:28 – 00:06:32:00
Rod
He said he had 13 assets he’s in trouble on and and so, you know, I just you know, I hate it for him. I mean, I know that he’ll survive like I survived after losing everything that I lost. It’s no fun when it happens. But but I also believe that on the flip side of that, there’s going to be opportunity.
00:06:32:00 – 00:06:53:17
Rod
So I’m we’re about ready to roll out of Fund and opportunity fund. We’ve put together we’ve got it’ll it’ll bear interest so the investors will have interest while the money’s in there prior to taking down deals. But I think, you know, in my view, the opportunity is going to be in someone’s ability to close an and not have a, you know, funding an equity issue or anything like that.
00:06:53:17 – 00:06:57:14
Rod
And that’s one of the reasons that, you know, I’m headed that direction. But I’d love to get your insight on that.
00:06:57:14 – 00:07:12:14
Jay
Well, we always have. For 20 years I’ve been capturing that little nugget, you know, half a million dollars hard day, $1 million. Ha, Day one. Right. But there are other ways you could, you know, have a little bit of flight to safety. And that’s really what talk about that.
00:07:12:14 – 00:07:15:02
Rod
You said you had a safety formula. I’d love to hear it. Well.
00:07:15:04 – 00:07:30:08
Jay
I want to buy newer vintage assets that don’t have perpetual CapEx, and I want to do that while chasing yield and, you know, that means sometimes I have to travel. You know, I’m not.
00:07:30:11 – 00:07:35:22
Rod
But but how do you ramp yield in this marketplace where rents have flatlined? You know? Okay.
00:07:35:25 – 00:07:45:26
Jay
Great question. And I have you know, my answer to it. It doesn’t have to be anybody else’s answer. Okay. My solution. So I want to buy newer vintage assets where the rents are below market.
00:07:45:29 – 00:07:47:15
Rod
Okay.
00:07:47:17 – 00:07:55:21
Jay
And in many cases I’m buying them where they’re artificially very much below market through affordable housing and so forth. And I’m typically buy in 2000 vintage assets.
00:07:55:24 – 00:08:03:04
Rod
I’m sorry, I didn’t track that. So. So you’re saying you’re buying them significantly below market because they’re affordable assets or help me understand what that is.
00:08:03:04 – 00:08:09:22
Jay
So let’s say, you know, for example, I’m buying a tax credit property that is in the extended use period.
00:08:09:23 – 00:08:11:07
Rod
Okay. And it’s about to expire.
00:08:11:07 – 00:08:31:04
Jay
Yeah. It may not be about to expire, just doesn’t have the recapture risk. So regular market rate buyer can go ahead and buy that property. Whereas if it were in the compliance period with tax credit recapture risk, you know, market rate guy might not buy that asset and they might not sell it to you. But if it’s in the extended use period, there’s really no recapture risk.
00:08:31:04 – 00:08:52:13
Jay
So let’s just take a hypothetical. Let’s say we buy it, whether it’s 50 units or 200 units, it doesn’t really matter. But you’re buying an asset that’s 2000 vintage might have $700 rents in a 1200 dollar market or might have $700 rents in a 950, you know, rent market that’s artificially low rent on a newer vintage asset. I feel pretty good about that.
00:08:52:13 – 00:08:56:15
Rod
Oh yeah. You just bring them to market. Yeah. What we created incredible value.
00:08:56:19 – 00:09:13:01
Jay
Sometimes you can bring them to market and sometimes you can’t get there because of the restrictions. However, you know who’s at risk. Really, you’re at risk when you’re, let’s say, an asset at the very top of the market or you’re going to be an asset at the top of the market or see asset at the top of the market.
00:09:13:07 – 00:09:27:25
Jay
But if I have a B plus asset, right, and I have a C rental rate at the very low end of a C rental rate, I’m the last guy to get hit and I’m always full. So if I just maintain, you know, my curb appeal and.
00:09:27:27 – 00:09:35:12
Rod
Yeah, you’re always full. We’ve got an asset like that here in Bradenton. It’s, it’s, you know, age restricted but it is, there’s a waiting all.
00:09:35:12 – 00:09:42:08
Jay
The way I love senior. Yeah that’s my favorite. Really. Okay senior housing. Well you know it’s interesting It’s legal discrimination.
00:09:42:10 – 00:10:07:06
Rod
Yeah, well, that’s true. That’s absolutely true. Yeah. No, that’s that’s very interesting. You know, I hadn’t looked at it like that because, you know, you want to rent value and rent value, but see, in your piece, you’re not having to satisfy any investors other than yourself. And so, you know, like, like our model is by ramp, the value refinance, get our investors all or most their money back and then returns are infinity and we hang in there as a legacy asset if it makes sense to hold on to it.
00:10:07:08 – 00:10:10:29
Rod
But in your model, you just it’s a safety play then.
00:10:11:01 – 00:10:28:02
Jay
Well, I mean, I have investment criteria and the way I look at that, it’s like traveling on the highway. So you have exit one, exit two, exit three, exit four. And I have a return target. And whether I can reach that on exit one or exit two or actually three, I’m prepared to hold every asset forever if I have to.
00:10:28:04 – 00:10:46:10
Jay
Right. But when I can meet my investment criteria and it makes sense to turn to money, I do. I don’t I typically haven’t recapitalized. But, you know, many of my friends say I should be doing that. I probably were triple if I’d done that over the last ten years. But I’m also not choked up with that anywhere.
00:10:46:10 – 00:10:50:23
Rod
Right, right, right. So you like long term debt? You do?
00:10:50:29 – 00:10:55:10
Jay
No, I don’t do any long term debt. I’ve been doing bridge debt for 20 years. No kidding. Yeah.
00:10:55:13 – 00:10:56:11
Rod
Wow.
00:10:56:13 – 00:11:00:29
Jay
I’m seven bridge that right now. No kidding. I don’t have any interest in going long term agency.
00:11:01:05 – 00:11:03:23
Rod
Any discomfort with today’s bridge debt?
00:11:03:25 – 00:11:04:22
Jay
None whatsoever.
00:11:04:22 – 00:11:24:14
Rod
No. Huh. So have you. Well, I mean, obviously, you know, you’re very liquid. You flew down here in your own jet. I mean, you’re you know, you’ve got you know, you’ve got resources. But but, you know, certainly your your your your Decker’s taken a hit. I mean, even with rate caps got have taken a bit of a hit.
00:11:24:17 – 00:11:27:28
Rod
Have you got the have you got debt coming due in the next year or so.
00:11:28:06 – 00:11:34:16
Jay
I mean I have I have one asset that I’ll have to address but you know, I’ll write a check to buy down the debt.
00:11:34:19 – 00:11:37:19
Rod
That’s it. We’ll fight it out. See, you’re able to do that. And that’s the thing I.
00:11:37:19 – 00:11:38:14
Jay
Get a lot of people say.
00:11:38:19 – 00:12:00:00
Rod
Listen, you know, I saw an interesting article. So if you wanted a rate cap for 100 million in 2020, a $100 million rate cap, 3% for three years in 2020 was $23,000. The same rate cap today. Forget three years, you’d never get it. One year for 3% is 2.3 million. Now, this was six months ago. It might even be worse now, but it’s 2.3 million.
00:12:00:00 – 00:12:19:19
Rod
So, you know, when you’ve got an operator that has to put money into to to buy the debt down and then they have to pay for that rate cap. You know what? I have an attorney buddy of mine, a super large SCC attorney in Dallas, and he says right now half of his business is capital calls forbearances and foreclosures have.
00:12:19:21 – 00:12:24:20
Jay
So all this to complicated for me. If I can’t operate on fourth grade math I don’t want it.
00:12:24:22 – 00:12:25:29
Rod
Oh, that. I love.
00:12:25:29 – 00:12:44:26
Jay
That. So, okay. You know when I every asset I buy, I reverse engineer now I have to underwrite to my exit. Somebody else may be thinking like that and somebody else may be looking at the debt needs to make the deal. So I’ll underwrite reverse engineer to that when I go to exit. What’s the next person going to want and or need?
00:12:44:28 – 00:12:47:01
Jay
Right. And if I.
00:12:47:01 – 00:12:48:08
Rod
Can sell some units fixed.
00:12:48:08 – 00:13:09:21
Jay
Up and if I can meet my metric by by executing and knowing that somebody else will come in and in the cap rates and rate caps and so forth, I’ll work for them on the way out. Then, then, then I know that, you know, that’s a deal that’s probably going to work for me. But, you know, I go through multiple steps prior, but most of my underwriting honestly is done in my head.
00:13:09:24 – 00:13:16:01
Rod
No kidding. Wow. So would you would you do you have a team or is it mostly just you?
00:13:16:07 – 00:13:33:15
Jay
You know, I have very, very thin team for our unit count, particularly the amount that we transition. I don’t have that many units. We’re about 1500 units at the moment. But like I said, I’m always simultaneously selling, you know, 500 to 1000 and buying 500,000. But, you know, we’re we’re, you know, three or four people at any given time at corporate level.
00:13:33:15 – 00:13:42:19
Jay
That’s it. And then we self manage everything and we do self-manage. We have managers on site and maintenance people on site. And I’m not really counting them, but back office, we’re total, you know, 3 to 4 people in a given time.
00:13:42:24 – 00:13:44:02
Rod
You got to counting and in.
00:13:44:03 – 00:13:45:15
Jay
Some. Yeah. My bookkeeper and.
00:13:45:15 – 00:13:48:14
Rod
Asset management or something. Okay sure And then well.
00:13:48:16 – 00:13:50:00
Jay
Operations managers.
00:13:50:03 – 00:13:51:24
Rod
That’s a lean and mean.
00:13:51:27 – 00:14:23:27
Jay
Yeah. So back to the you know really what I have in mind for really my my safety play not just the vintage, you know, you really also want to look at your tenant profile because if I’m going to go long term, you know in in a changing market, you’ve really got to be prepared to go long term. So if I have a newer vintage asset and I have below market rents, the next thing I really want to look at is my tenant profile or or is the tenant profile in that market and in the entire submarket, are they people I can live with if I were in that exact.
00:14:23:29 – 00:14:26:25
Rod
Speak to what you mean by that.
00:14:26:28 – 00:14:43:04
Jay
If the culture is to get your hair done before paying rent, you know you may not well said. You know look at that as a an investment grade tenant profile. Gotcha. So it just you know, you look at.
00:14:43:04 – 00:14:57:23
Rod
Where they work, you look at what their income is. You know, I’m going to tell you my opinion. I don’t want I’m not doing any assets right now. I think they scare me because that demographics getting their butts handed to them. I went to the grocery store. You know, my ex used to buy all the groceries and I.
00:14:58:00 – 00:15:08:01
Rod
I said $150 for that. Are you kidding me? How do people afford this? And I was clerk just shook her head. And so, I mean, they’re those hand to mouth people are getting killed, right?
00:15:08:01 – 00:15:18:12
Jay
I think so I want see rents on B assets love it with a good tenant profile and you know if I have those things I can weather I think what’s coming my way.
00:15:18:12 – 00:15:23:11
Rod
Anything. Anything. So so what states are you in or do you like.
00:15:23:15 – 00:15:26:21
Jay
So I am presently I don’t have a whole lot if.
00:15:26:21 – 00:15:27:28
Rod
You say Carolinas.
00:15:28:00 – 00:15:40:22
Jay
Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, have some Oklahoma. We did Indiana last year that, you know, I don’t have anything left in Indiana. Okay. But I’ll generally go anywhere.
00:15:40:24 – 00:15:48:24
Rod
So you’re always buying and selling and and you know no legacy holding stuff.
00:15:48:25 – 00:16:10:06
Jay
Well, I started very poor. So when some when I meet an investment criteria, whether you’re making $1,000,000 or 1,000,005 or 2 million or 500,000 for that matter, or whatever the deal may provide, and somebody wants to pay me that profit, you know, I take it a move on, you know, ultimately I would again, probably be worth double or triple if I’d held everything over the last ten years.
00:16:10:09 – 00:16:13:07
Jay
But I’ve turned myself into a deal junky and I can’t see.
00:16:13:07 – 00:16:28:07
Rod
So you like it to you know, my first interview was a billionaire guy named Albert Perez. He owns McKinley Corporation in Lake Arbor. I don’t know if you know Albert or not, but but he told me something that kind of stuck with me. And I don’t know if it’s good advice or bad, but he said he’s a real estate buyer, not a seller.
00:16:28:10 – 00:16:30:07
Rod
He regrets everything he’s ever sold.
00:16:30:09 – 00:16:46:22
Jay
So I regret nothing I’ve ever sold. I’m happy for everybody. That’s ever bought a deal for me and made a million to several million behind me. I can’t do what I do without them being successful at what they do. And, you know, I tend to have the same five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten people buy from me over and over.
00:16:46:24 – 00:16:49:05
Jay
Really, their success is very important to me.
00:16:49:05 – 00:17:01:28
Rod
And what a great attitude. So so just out of curiosity, what if you’re if you share it, what were you in before real estate? I mean, what framework did you have for this business? That’s what I’m really trying to do.
00:17:01:28 – 00:17:03:01
Jay
Well, I don’t think.
00:17:03:03 – 00:17:06:05
Rod
I mean, it wasn’t an analytical background, know what I mean?
00:17:06:05 – 00:17:22:18
Jay
I have a high school GED, so I think that anybody, you know, can engage in some way and some level. It really comes down to to buying. Right. If you have the ability to buy anything at all. Right. And and making good choices along the way.
00:17:22:18 – 00:17:27:20
Rod
So, so good choices. I mean, just I don’t want to assume what you’re saying. Tell me what you mean.
00:17:27:23 – 00:17:35:09
Jay
I don’t think I really had any point much further than that. I think that’s okay. There wasn’t any catalyst is really what I’m saying. There wasn’t anything.
00:17:35:09 – 00:17:38:01
Rod
You just took action. We just took action, right? I made it happen.
00:17:38:01 – 00:17:41:16
Jay
That’s it, right? I need to support my family, right? I needed to come up with something.
00:17:41:17 – 00:17:48:26
Rod
How did you get over the fear of. Of getting into this business? Or was there a fear for you? And that’s a ways back. What I’m just curious.
00:17:48:29 – 00:17:49:09
Jay
Because this.
00:17:49:09 – 00:17:49:26
Rod
Is common.
00:17:49:27 – 00:18:09:21
Jay
It’s like I walked away from anything to come into this business. I think if somebody said a salary job and has some golden handcuffs, so to speak, right, that’s hard to walk away from a steady paycheck to start something you’re uncertain about. I didn’t have that scenario. I was, you know, arguably unemployed in the moment. So, you know, I just started it’s all hands.
00:18:09:21 – 00:18:10:02
Rod
On deck.
00:18:10:02 – 00:18:25:27
Jay
Then. Yeah, it was just all hands. Yeah, I was that was fully engaged, fully commit. I thought I was just doing this as a side gig until I found something else. But, you know, I kept making money and I kept turning assets over until I Like I said, I made a big enough game where I could buy multiple at the same time.
00:18:25:27 – 00:18:28:08
Jay
And then I realized, Oh, man, I have a career here.
00:18:28:10 – 00:18:29:03
Rod
And you enjoy it.
00:18:29:03 – 00:18:29:25
Jay
I love it.
00:18:29:25 – 00:18:30:24
Rod
Yeah. I mean, I over.
00:18:30:24 – 00:18:49:10
Jay
Improve, affordable housing generally. I, I have, you know, great employees because they work at very nice places. I have happy tenants for the most part. I can make everybody happy all the time. But, you know, we we bring in finishes that are normally usually for just the higher demographic and we we bring it in the.
00:18:49:15 – 00:18:53:27
Rod
Bring it in just a little better than anybody else and then you know that man that keeps your occupancy.
00:18:53:27 – 00:19:13:02
Jay
High. So when I’m buying, I try to keep it very simple. I try to keep it on like fourth grade math, as I was saying. And then also from an operational standpoint, we try to keep it very, very simple. I, I run on what they call the five C’s here. So the first is curb appeal. If you fix it up and you keep everything where somebody drives by and say, I’d like to live there.
00:19:13:02 – 00:19:36:01
Jay
And that has to extend not only in the outside but through the office and through the inside of the units as well. That that’s the first C And if you if your curb appeal is in line, you’ll always be at the next C, which is capacity, you’ll be full. So if if you have the curb appeal and you’re at capacity, you just from that point need to be good at collections and then you watch your costs and that equals cash flow.
00:19:36:08 – 00:19:45:01
Jay
So those nice simple four things equal the fee and I see and it doesn’t have to be any more difficult than that. I know we all do our best to make it more difficult, but it, it really it.
00:19:45:01 – 00:19:55:12
Rod
Really is that simple. Yeah. So I’m just curious. Do you utilize any higher level software that helps you manage your operations?
00:19:55:15 – 00:20:00:12
Jay
Actually, I try to use the the the dumbest down software we can find.
00:20:00:14 – 00:20:01:13
Rod
I’m kidding. Okay.
00:20:01:17 – 00:20:04:24
Jay
And I don’t want to knock on my software company. Okay.
00:20:04:26 – 00:20:05:24
Rod
All right.
00:20:05:27 – 00:20:10:15
Jay
We’ve been using build them for 20 years. We’re about to change the app. Folio But Apple is great.
00:20:10:15 – 00:20:24:12
Rod
Yeah, I’ve heard great things about our for transitioning. We have it at one of my assets or the management company uses it. So how do you, how do you manage in-house when you’re in these other states? Do you do regional travels or how do you how do you love that question.
00:20:24:12 – 00:20:30:17
Jay
Because I feel so strongly about it. Okay. Third party management to me is death by a thousand cuts.
00:20:30:17 – 00:20:32:10
Rod
I don’t disagree with that at all.
00:20:32:11 – 00:20:48:14
Jay
There’s to me, there’s no surviving third party management anywhere that you’re going to, you know, build up some positive cash flow. They’re going to slice it out from under you one way or another. It’s no one thing, the death by a thousand cuts. And I see that cost me, you know, probably 30/503 party managers are going to charge me.
00:20:48:14 – 00:21:18:06
Jay
Well, pay about 4500. Now, the third party management company, by the time I get that installed, might be 6500 or 7000. The refrigerator that, you know, maybe cost me eight $900. A third party manager is going to charge me. 1150 So it’s it’s just it’s in the aggregate and it adds up and it becomes meaningful. So and by the way, if you have a third party manager and you’re not all hands on deck managing the third party manager, you’re going to get your lunch eaten.
00:21:18:09 – 00:21:26:25
Jay
So it’s just as much work for me to manage a third party manager, is it as it is for me to manage my own manager? Yeah, So that’s, that’s what we’ve done it.
00:21:27:00 – 00:21:42:21
Rod
And so, so you know, you’ve got your own jet so you can fly and do asset management on your own. Do you have somebody that runs around for you to keep an eye on things? Because I mean you want to you want to visit these assets, not just give to a manager. So so.
00:21:42:23 – 00:22:02:21
Jay
You know, I grew up poor. I’m a street guy. You know, I didn’t I know maybe I’m considered an old, rich white man now. Right. But it sure didn’t start that way. So I drive box trucks, I drive the box trucks, I load the furniture, I deliver the furniture, I set up the rooms, you know, the clubhouses and community rooms.
00:22:02:23 – 00:22:09:16
Jay
I might fly private there next week, but, you know, when the work is going down, I’m in the truck and I’m unloading gear.
00:22:09:18 – 00:22:13:21
Rod
That shows how much you love it, because I love that stuff, too. I mean, that is rewarding.
00:22:13:21 – 00:22:30:14
Jay
Yeah, You know, I love the reveal when you come in and you have this dingy old clubhouse and you make it classy and a class asset is meaningful. And, you know, I see the joy. You know, I have some tenants come in and they shoot their whole Instagram in there and they’re all over pages in the clubhouse. And it’s cool, man.
00:22:30:15 – 00:22:31:13
Jay
Love it. Feel good about.
00:22:31:13 – 00:22:52:18
Rod
It. So I have a lot of aspiring investors and listen to this show, you know, hundreds of thousands. And and they you know, they know they want to do something with their lives. They maybe work a job they don’t particularly love. They know they’ll never have time, freedom, financial freedom, time to spend with their family. They really deserve unless they take action.
00:22:52:18 – 00:23:02:10
Rod
And, you know, I say grind for a few years. I most people won’t see they can live the rest of life like most people can’t speak to those people. For me.
00:23:02:12 – 00:23:32:28
Jay
Well, what I what I like about multifamily is I like to call it I’m making money while I’m making money. And what I mean by that is if you buy a piece of land or you buy a single family house, in large part you have money going out constantly, whereas and maybe you know, you have capital gains. But what I find with the multifamily is while I’m transitioning an asset and I’m collecting the rents, I’m also gaining on the equity side.
00:23:33:00 – 00:23:44:07
Jay
So I mean, it’s just a little way I like to put it. I’m making money while I’m making money and there’s less risk in those type of investments. Sure, you could get that with other food groups, like whether it’s office or industrial, etc..
00:23:44:09 – 00:23:46:05
Rod
But so I wouldn’t do office right now.
00:23:46:05 – 00:24:05:02
Jay
Yeah, I just, you know, people need a place to live. We’re not running out of poor people, right? I mean, I find the high risk is in the, the higher rents, the classic. But to be in affordable multi housing, I think it’s just you can start at any level like I started with a duplex and a dry place, right?
00:24:05:07 – 00:24:32:18
Rod
So just frickin do it. I hope that’s what you’re hearing. Okay. I’m just frickin do it. So, you know, as your journey, think back and think back to any aha moments or any epiphanies where you’re like, okay, now I get it. I know, I know. I’m asking a lot because you’ve been in the business long enough, but any, any, anything come to mind with that question like aha moments as you were getting going in this business or along the journey.
00:24:32:22 – 00:24:35:19
Jay
When when everybody’s running for the hills, that’s the time to buy.
00:24:35:19 – 00:24:41:16
Rod
Oh, no question. Are Warren Buffett’s famous quote be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. Right.
00:24:41:18 – 00:25:03:00
Jay
Are we are we in the vicinity? I mean, look, we we have some headwinds coming, There’s no doubt. QUESTION The things that you were saying in the beginning. I’m in full agreement with what your assessment of of what’s to come, but there is capital. Yeah, I don’t think the sky will fall in if in if it does it’ll be temporary.
00:25:03:03 – 00:25:08:21
Jay
Right. So when everybody’s pencils down you should be pencils up.
00:25:08:22 – 00:25:11:16
Rod
I agree with that 100%. I agree with you 100%.
00:25:11:16 – 00:25:28:16
Jay
And you know what you can do today that you couldn’t do yesterday. When I say yesterday, I mean, of course, last year, right? Last year, if you were going to buy anything in multifamily, particularly in Florida and markets like Florida, you would have to pay the seller today for four growth that you’ll get some.
00:25:28:16 – 00:25:30:21
Rod
More right profit. You’re buying off pro forma.
00:25:30:21 – 00:25:50:11
Jay
Yeah, and you have to pay up for it. And by the time you get it there, if rates move, you just work for free for two years, right? Whereas now you can buy a deal at current market cap rates while interest rates are high, while insurance rates are ridiculous. Right. And if you can make it in this moment and when you’re getting a buy at that base.
00:25:50:11 – 00:25:51:29
Rod
When it settles down, yeah.
00:25:51:29 – 00:26:06:18
Jay
You’re going to be in pretty good shape. And even if we have headwinds to come, which we probably do, you buy a good tenant profile, you buy an asset that doesn’t have perpetual CapEx. I’m ready to back the truck up personally. Yeah, that’s my I mean, look, again, I couldn’t agree more once, now I.
00:26:06:18 – 00:26:16:24
Rod
Couldn’t agree more. So in this progression of yours, in this journey of your starting out and along the journey, did you have any mentors that you leaned on?
00:26:16:27 – 00:26:20:13
Jay
You know, I would have loved to have had a mentor like you.
00:26:20:20 – 00:26:22:26
Rod
Oh, that’s kind of you to say that I wasn’t fishing for that.
00:26:22:26 – 00:26:28:14
Jay
No, I know, but I. But it’s true. No, I mean, this is hard knocks.
00:26:28:16 – 00:26:41:17
Rod
Yeah, well, I’m going to follow up that question, then. Talk about a failure, a doozy. You got your ass handed to you. And the lesson in it, if you can think I’m sure this we all and we’ve got tons of them like I do, we just think of a good one.
00:26:41:22 – 00:27:01:08
Jay
Well, I think for people starting out and this happened to me when I started out, I just bought it was like a 30 unit. I think at the time it was probably the biggest property had bought. I just redid the units and I just repaved my parking lot and I thought it may take in another level and let me put some really nice landscaping in.
00:27:01:11 – 00:27:17:09
Jay
So and these were big trees I was putting as it was a tall two storey building and I wanted to have some greenery going up. Anyway, the guy with the backhoe breaks my water main, water main and the water shooting, you know, 150 feet in the air and all the neighborhood kids are playing in the water in my brand new parking lot.
00:27:17:11 – 00:27:28:08
Jay
And I freaked out for a minute. And then what I realized is, okay, turn the water main off, call a plumber and it’s going to be okay. You know, it’s.
00:27:28:10 – 00:27:31:27
Rod
What I love to say about the business is a check can fix just about anything.
00:27:31:27 – 00:27:52:22
Jay
Yeah, that’s what I loved. It was a $12,000 problem. At the end of the day, nobody wants to lose $12,000. Right, right, right. However, it wasn’t catastrophic. But I think just as a quick, funny story, I was getting a really good value. So let’s this property was in Charleston, okay? And at the time, the market in Charleston was like nothing trades below 100 a door.
00:27:52:22 – 00:28:09:29
Jay
And I was getting these townhomes that look good like 56,000 a door cheeses. So I went part a million day one. Oh and without looking at anything, just, just yeah, just a basis by then I get there and once I take over, I realize that the toilets are flushing to the ground. They were on a stem wall about four feet in the air.
00:28:10:02 – 00:28:10:13
Jay
There was no.
00:28:10:18 – 00:28:11:03
Rod
Kidding.
00:28:11:08 – 00:28:22:17
Jay
The plumbing was shot. Oh, my. So I had to get these guys in hazmat suits underneath there cleaning house. It was it was a real mess. So that was no fun. Yeah. So, I mean, you look like we did. Okay.
00:28:22:17 – 00:28:43:02
Rod
That brought back. Yeah. Used to work hard. Still made money. We bought a 403 unit asset in Shreveport and didn’t and and thank God I talked to a tenant. The tenants say, you know, those bottom units flood and we got $1,000,000 reduction in the in the price and still bane of my existence and we’ve made money but oh my God it was a nightmare.
00:28:43:02 – 00:28:55:18
Jay
You know, I’ve learned from that. I don’t buy any sub gradient units. Like sometimes you buy a property that’s on a slope and the first floor is like in part. So gradient I just there always moisture problems. Yeah. Yeah. I just completely.
00:28:55:18 – 00:29:11:15
Rod
I completely agree. No I completely agree. So you’re obviously a leader, you have a small team, but you lead a team and you inspire that team. What do you think are some of the most important qualities that a leader should have in this business or any business really?
00:29:11:17 – 00:29:17:18
Jay
I have to contemplate on that for a minute. But I think the number one’s got to be integrity, right?
00:29:17:23 – 00:29:19:02
Rod
Like number one core value.
00:29:19:02 – 00:29:38:10
Jay
But it’s something that you said that I often say myself. People will always remember you for how you make them feel about themselves. Yeah. And, you know, I think if you treat people with respect and let everybody know that they’re an important part of the team, any of the successes I have don’t happen without all my team around me right?
00:29:38:12 – 00:29:47:24
Jay
And my team, to me, expands way beyond the people that work with me and work for me. They’re all my vendors, my roofers, my lenders.
00:29:47:24 – 00:29:50:12
Rod
I know where you’re going with this great, great answer, man. That’s great.
00:29:50:13 – 00:29:54:19
Jay
You have to treat everybody, even the people that buy from me. I always look at them like they’re my partners.
00:29:54:25 – 00:30:15:11
Rod
The human race is a team. If you really want to get super out. Yeah, I love it too. So when you are building that team and I’m talking about your internal team now, you know these hires that you make any any strategy in what you look for when you’re aligning with people in this business or even outside the internal team.
00:30:15:11 – 00:30:17:20
Rod
But what do you look for? Well.
00:30:17:23 – 00:30:39:13
Jay
I’d tell you the truth. I think that one of the things that I’ve learned is it’s usually not the people that you let go that hurt you when you realize things are going sideways. It’s the ones you hold on to. So if you know a relationship isn’t going the way you want it, yeah, you do it. Both sides of service to cut that sooner rather than later.
00:30:39:13 – 00:30:56:12
Jay
And be candid about why. Yeah. Personally, I don’t fire anybody ever. I never fire anyone. Oh, if somebody gets terminated, they fired themselves. The last thing in the world I want to do is fire an employee. So if if it comes to pass that we have to do that, it’s because they’re not performing the benefit of the bargain.
00:30:56:12 – 00:30:58:05
Jay
It’s not like we stopped paying them.
00:30:58:05 – 00:31:03:15
Rod
Okay. You know, but you did help them. You do help them out the door. But you but but that’s that’s what terminated somebody.
00:31:03:15 – 00:31:06:05
Jay
But, you know, that’s something that’s self-inflicted.
00:31:06:10 – 00:31:24:20
Rod
Gotcha. No, I agree completely. I agree completely. And I like that you shift that in your head. I like that. So what’s some of the best advice that you’ve ever gotten about either life or this business?
00:31:24:22 – 00:31:27:04
Jay
Well, again, that requires a little calm.
00:31:27:06 – 00:31:30:09
Rod
No, no, I didn’t prepare You didn’t prepare you for any of these.
00:31:30:09 – 00:31:53:17
Jay
That’s awfully deep. Yeah, I like the question. I like the challenge in answering that question. But in business, in our business in particular, I would you know, nobody makes money when they sell a property. We all make money on the by and through the operations. Yeah. In executing a business plan and I think you can do that in any market, whether it’s primary, secondary or tertiary market grade.
00:31:53:20 – 00:32:17:07
Jay
In terms of life, you know, my personal create is balance. You know, I, you know, created my own family creed of the Five FS, which is faith, family, fitness, finance and friends. And I think the we can all focus too much on one of those things for a little while but if you’re all on one side or the other of that without some balance, somewhere along the way, your life blows out a little bit.
00:32:17:07 – 00:32:28:06
Jay
Yeah. So, you know, it’s just a guide, you know, because we all are always heavy on something and not the other. Right? But, you know, when I’m getting too fat, I should probably stop eating Twinkies.
00:32:28:08 – 00:32:47:27
Rod
One of the one of the exercises we do at my boot camp. So we do this wheel and we pie chart it in the middle of zero. The outside room is ten, and you put in each each segment, you put in an area, one of the five FS, you put family, friends, finances, health, all of that. And then you rate yourself from 1 to 10 in that wheel.
00:32:48:00 – 00:33:04:15
Rod
And then you take a look at your shade on the inside and you take out, you know, how fast you’re going to be able to go with that wheel. You know, this always it, you know, unbalance. And it’s a very illuminating, sometimes painful exercise for people to do. And and and just to just to take a look at each area of their life.
00:33:04:15 – 00:33:17:09
Rod
And and then what I tell them is not to, you know, to breathe and get through it and recognize very often that one area can very often ramp all the areas simultaneously and and to look at that.
00:33:17:09 – 00:33:20:23
Jay
But I think we’re all out of balance all the time.
00:33:20:23 – 00:33:21:24
Rod
Yeah, agreed.
00:33:21:27 – 00:33:40:12
Jay
But the idea is to have a simple reminder that you contemplate on occasion to realize, okay, I’ve spent too much time in my business, maybe I need to spend a little more family time. Yeah. If I’m going to the gym all day, every day. Well, maybe my business is suffering. Yeah, And, you know, if I’m eating terrible, then, you know, maybe, you know, it.
00:33:40:14 – 00:33:49:02
Jay
It just something that you have to kind of remind yourself on a regular basis that, hey, I might be a little bit out of balance or a little bit off center. Let me just, you know.
00:33:49:09 – 00:34:12:05
Rod
Yeah. Yeah. So, so do you do you goal set, do you do goals? Do you do you know, you’re obviously very, very driven. I’d love to know what the why is as well but but is there a mechanism or a a routine or a thought process or a calendar thing that you do to.
00:34:12:07 – 00:34:33:23
Jay
I’ve always goal set. I started out it’s like little handwritten note on the back of a business card. Right. And since I don’t syndicate and since I don’t really money raised, it’s for me it’s never been assets under management, it’s never been unit count, it’s always been net worth growth. Hmm. So my metric is, you know what my number is today and what my next goal was.
00:34:33:25 – 00:34:47:18
Jay
And, you know, sometimes when I lock down a property and I know where my ex it’s going to be on that, I’ll move my net worth balance sheet, you know, just because and then I’ll make that a reality. I’ll manifested over the course of the next year or two, of course. But so it.
00:34:47:21 – 00:34:49:03
Rod
Shift the end in mind a lot.
00:34:49:04 – 00:35:01:05
Jay
Yeah. So I reverse engineer everything and then when I take down a property that I see that’s going to get me there, I’ll go ahead and make that adjustment and then I’ll work for like a year or two years to make it real. And it’s been.
00:35:01:05 – 00:35:18:08
Rod
That’s a big clue, guys. Okay, because that ties right into, you know, an exercise that I do where I manifest what I want as if I already have it. Okay? And it’s that’s that’s that’s how you do it. That’s how I had 50 million to lose and how I got it back by that exact same strategy in a different framework.
00:35:18:08 – 00:35:37:23
Rod
I’ll, I’ll do like a little manifestation thing where I’ll do gratitude, grateful for my, you know, people in my life that I love my my kids, my foundation, my coaching students. And then I’ll do gratitude for the things that I want if I were to have them. And it’s a little different than but but but it is similar because you’re manifesting you you’re you’re you’re working towards what you believe you already have.
00:35:37:24 – 00:35:46:14
Jay
You have to see it. You don’t see it even if it’s just mentally. It’s nice to write it down. Yeah, but if you don’t see it, how do you achieve it? Yeah. So, you know, I.
00:35:46:17 – 00:36:02:02
Rod
By the way, guys, I want to salute Jay here because almost everybody that sits in that seat has an agenda. And he came here with no agenda, came here on his own dime and his jet, which is not cheap, just to add value. And I really have massive respect for you over that. I just want to tell you that.
00:36:02:02 – 00:36:03:05
Jay
Well, I appreciate it.
00:36:03:08 – 00:36:03:25
Rod
It’s truth.
00:36:03:25 – 00:36:05:25
Jay
It’s truth. I love. We do. I you know.
00:36:06:02 – 00:36:23:00
Rod
When you love what you do, work is play, right? Yeah. So so, you know, knowing what you know now, I love to ask this question of super successful people that sit in that seat. You know, if you could go back and tell 18 year old self Jay something, what what might you do differently?
00:36:23:00 – 00:36:24:28
Jay
Oh, man, that’s a scary question.
00:36:24:28 – 00:36:25:18
Rod
Well, I know.
00:36:25:24 – 00:36:44:21
Jay
I was as knucklehead in as you could get, and I’m quite honestly so I’m 57 today and today I’m not today. Oh, okay. In this moment. Gotcha. But I probably didn’t grow up till I was in my forties, so, you know, going back to my 18 year old self as just a son, I can’t fathom that now.
00:36:44:24 – 00:36:45:18
Rod
Yeah, right.
00:36:45:21 – 00:37:01:27
Jay
You know, I think that’s it’s a journey. Yeah. I think that if you for people who are motivated and driven, it’s going to happen for you. Yeah. As long as you don’t give up and much of it is enjoy the journey along the way. Yeah.
00:37:02:00 – 00:37:18:28
Rod
I couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. Is there a book that you gift more than others because you’ve got people in your circle? I know you have people that say, how did you do it? And you have the you know, those those types of interactions. Is there something that you gift that that was inspired you more than.
00:37:19:03 – 00:37:44:10
Jay
Just just the real estate bible of Mr. Case Yeah. Sakis book The Hockey Club. You know, just such a great book. Oh yeah. So it’s the only really real estate book that I’ve ever completely dove into. No kidding. Yeah. So I just, you know, crazy. I’m a surfer. I love to surf, but I don’t watch surfing. You know, I watched other sports that I don’t play, but, you know, I’m in this.
00:37:44:13 – 00:38:07:23
Jay
You know, I’ve been doing it a long time. I feel like we solve problems in the real estate business for a living. You know, multi housing in particular. I don’t know that I need to read so many people’s books. I think that I just to execute my business plan. What I will say when I started, I read that book, I’ve given that book out at least 20 times and I think it holds true today just as much as it ever has.
00:38:07:23 – 00:38:10:01
Jay
And probably one of the best real estate books ever written.
00:38:10:03 – 00:38:20:14
Rod
Actually, all of his books are fantastic, and I agree completely. And, you know, pretty much anybody that gets into real estate has to or has already read that book. So here’s a question.
00:38:20:22 – 00:38:24:04
Jay
Well, I don’t think I even mentioned Rich dad, poor dad, obviously, we’re talking about.
00:38:24:04 – 00:38:44:03
Rod
Right, right, right. Doesn’t know. Oh, no, everybody knows. Trust me. Everybody knows. Rich Dad, Poor dad. What’s the drive? Where does that drive come from? That gets you to jump out of bed and and keep this train going and keeps you motivated and driven. Is it the goals? Is that what’s the why actually is what I’m asking. Is it family?
00:38:44:03 – 00:38:44:26
Rod
Is what is it?
00:38:44:28 – 00:39:05:26
Jay
Well, you know, I guess I’ve always I’ve always had some fear of having my children grow up without a like like I did now, my family had a whole lot of love in it. Right. But we didn’t have much of any money. I grew up in a flea infested, roach infested trailer. Wow. You know, we left a box of Cheerios out.
00:39:05:26 – 00:39:09:01
Jay
It had bugs in it. So to this day, I keep Cheerios in the refrigerator.
00:39:09:01 – 00:39:09:22
Rod
No kidding.
00:39:09:22 – 00:39:27:11
Jay
Yeah. So you know, I guess I’ve done them all. My children are grown now. The last three have recently graduated college and they’re all doing their thing. But the fear of having them go without, it’s always been.
00:39:27:11 – 00:39:44:15
Rod
That was the driver. So negative driver. You know, when I do goal setting, I do a goal setting workshop every New Year’s Day. If you’re listening and you haven’t done your freaking goals, go to Rods Link stock comments at the bottom. There’s a guide you can download. I’m going to try to sell you anything. People spend more time planning a frickin birthday party than they do designing their lives.
00:39:44:15 – 00:40:00:26
Rod
That’s designing your life. But one of the pieces of that, when I have them right there wise, I have them right there, why they want it. But then I also have them right. And the negative reason why. So I don’t feel like a failure. So I don’t feel my kids. So I don’t fail my spouse. So I don’t live a life of regret.
00:40:00:26 – 00:40:03:21
Rod
Put some freaking pain in there. So that’s what drove you?
00:40:03:21 – 00:40:16:04
Jay
That’s fast. It’s never been like, Oh, I want to be rich. I just I you know, it was never that it was I always wanted to be able to provide for my family and the fear of not being able to really, really scare me a lot.
00:40:16:06 – 00:40:29:16
Rod
And so what So yeah, very interesting that you answered that way because most people don’t lead with that. So it’s the family or a positive thing. So I’m really glad that you said that. What’s your definition of success?
00:40:29:19 – 00:40:52:29
Jay
Oh, I think probably the balance. The balance. I think the balance of the five FS I want healthy, happy, successful, safe, you know, children. Right, Right. And also to me, you know, benefit of the bargain. Like, you know, I’m transactional by large part, then it’s not a success if only I win or if only the other party wins.
00:40:53:01 – 00:41:00:11
Jay
So I like win win situations. I think everybody getting the benefit of the bargain is is critical to anybody’s success because it’s not.
00:41:00:15 – 00:41:08:27
Rod
I had another woman tell me that once a woman loaned me millions of dollars, she said, Always look for always lean meat on the bone is the way she described it. And I kind.
00:41:08:27 – 00:41:09:23
Jay
Of my business model.
00:41:09:23 – 00:41:22:18
Rod
Yeah, I love that. If you could teach schoolchildren one thing for maybe an hour a week that they’re not getting, what might it be? Or how do you feel about that whole dynamic? I’m just curious.
00:41:22:20 – 00:41:48:21
Jay
You know, times have changed when when we came up, it was always get a job, save, build a retirement account. And today it’s much more an entrepreneurial spirit. So I think the more we teach children independence and how to count on themselves, I think that is the path to success that that maybe we didn’t get when we were younger.
00:41:48:21 – 00:41:59:25
Jay
So I don’t know. I’m pretty far away from the education system these days, but, you know, I like to teach children to have confidence in themselves and curiosity.
00:41:59:25 – 00:42:04:16
Rod
I think those are the two biggest things that I love confidence and self-confidence and curiosity.
00:42:04:19 – 00:42:08:25
Jay
Yeah, I think yeah, I think curiosity is inherent with all kids for the most part.
00:42:08:25 – 00:42:29:21
Rod
Yeah. Yeah. I suppose you’re probably right. I suppose you’re probably right. I, you know, I’ve, I meet people that aren’t curious as they’re adults, and I feel sad for them because to me that’s, you know, life is about being curious and learning and growing. And what do you think is the most common reason that people give up, you know, in this business or any business?
00:42:29:23 – 00:42:58:06
Jay
Well, it’s got to be rejection. You know, some people feed and have to have recognition all the time. Yeah. Other people don’t necessarily need quite so much recognition, but we all do need to feel like we’re succeeding in some way or another. And I think rejection is is probably the biggest stumbling block. And I think that people starting out, especially when it comes to capital raise, because, you know, if you’re not already wealthy, how do you come up with down payment money?
00:42:58:06 – 00:43:12:28
Jay
I mean, sure, it’s it’s a difficult thing. But one of the things I’ve learned over time and maybe it’s because I’ve had so many transactions that have been successful, but it just seems like money’s actually easy to come by, You know, if you have the right deal and you have a right scenario, you’re going to get your cash.
00:43:12:29 – 00:43:15:13
Rod
Have you done any joint ventures or has it been all your own money?
00:43:15:13 – 00:43:29:21
Jay
So I do about probably somewhere between at any given time, 30 to 70% of my deals are with my own money. But for the most part, the last few years I have one or two partners. You know.
00:43:29:22 – 00:43:33:17
Rod
There’s a lot of money where you live, friends and family, and I’m probably not hard to find the money over there.
00:43:33:18 – 00:43:45:06
Jay
I couldn’t possibly do a syndication and raise, you know, five, six, seven, ten, $20 Million. But I can make one phone call and raise $10 million. No kidding. And again, that’s not something I came up with. That’s something I’ve learned over.
00:43:45:06 – 00:43:45:27
Rod
Oh, of course.
00:43:45:28 – 00:43:53:01
Jay
No, of course. Long period of time. That check in the beginning was maybe 500,000. Then it was a million, and then it was 2 million. Right. You know, so.
00:43:53:04 – 00:43:57:06
Rod
Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. You build a relationship. So what are you not good at?
00:43:57:09 – 00:44:02:20
Jay
I don’t like to read directions. I don’t like to read in General Assembly required.
00:44:02:20 – 00:44:07:05
Rod
Are those two words strike horror in my heart. So yeah on that.
00:44:07:05 – 00:44:16:02
Jay
I was taking flight lessons and what I realized is, man, I’m going to kill myself because there are so many checklists to being a pilot, right? And it’s just not in my DNA.
00:44:16:03 – 00:44:33:21
Rod
Yeah. When you said you were flying down here, I thought you actually had, you know, like a propeller plane. You’re flying your your self down here because I had somebody recently that did. But yeah, no, I feel the same way. I couldn’t do it. I’ve got great friends that are pilots, but I absolutely couldn’t do it. So you obviously now and I you know what?
00:44:33:21 – 00:44:38:18
Rod
I’m actually obviously, but I feel like you’re working on your legacy now. Would that be accurate? Well, I’ve been.
00:44:38:18 – 00:44:51:11
Jay
Kind of at that for a little while. Have you? Yeah. I mean, I don’t really I mean, for me personally, I could probably not work again. Right. But I’m really you know, I have five kids and I’m trying to, you know, build a legacy for those guys and, you know, launch them in every way I can.
00:44:51:11 – 00:44:53:13
Rod
But I only have them interested in what you do.
00:44:53:21 – 00:44:58:21
Jay
Yeah, I have. You know, my daughter just started a job at Greystone in New York City.
00:44:58:21 – 00:45:01:29
Rod
No kidding. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. So it’s a great framework.
00:45:01:29 – 00:45:14:21
Jay
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, That’s a really good place to start. So ultimately, come in. We were started doing some of our own deals. Wow. Yeah, I think that’s, you know, I still have some growing to do myself. I still have a grind.
00:45:14:21 – 00:45:17:09
Rod
We grow, we stop growing, we die. So.
00:45:17:09 – 00:45:32:11
Jay
So yeah, I think so, yeah. That’s what’s nice about being in a position like I am now is like and for anybody who’s had a successful career, you get to as you get older, you don’t. There’s no stopping. You just pick and choose what you do. There’s no real retiring, right? You just pick and choose what it is you’re doing.
00:45:32:11 – 00:45:33:00
Jay
Agrees.
00:45:33:04 – 00:45:54:02
Rod
Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. It was sad to see Sam go last year. This was it earlier this year. Sam Zell. You know what? What a success story that guy was. So any do you have any you know, I’ve got favorite landlord tenant stories and favorite stories from work. Do you have any favorite stories that you like to tell us as that as maybe amusing?
00:45:54:04 – 00:45:57:08
Rod
Anything come to mind? Because I’m sure you’ve got some like that water.
00:45:57:08 – 00:45:58:05
Jay
Well I mean, five.
00:45:58:06 – 00:45:58:15
Rod
Hundred and.
00:45:58:15 – 00:46:05:29
Jay
50 feet. I have one more story like that is really the only other thing that’s like notable over a long haul.
00:46:06:01 – 00:46:09:18
Rod
I find that hard to believe. But okay, I’ll let you slide that. Let that slide by.
00:46:09:24 – 00:46:33:13
Jay
Well, there was just a look in that same. No, actually, the Charleston apartment complex that I had, the sewage problem with, we just renovated our office, which was in a unit, by the way. So the thing was beautiful. We really class ate it up and then the manager had called in Roto-Rooter to jet out the apartment next to where the office is.
00:46:33:16 – 00:46:36:05
Rod
This has gone and gone simultaneously.
00:46:36:05 – 00:46:56:13
Jay
She didn’t know they were out there. Her her boyfriend was a maintenance person at the time and he’s taken the crap off in the kitchen. And so they’re standing there in front of the cabinet with the door open as Roto-Rooter, and it was feces floor to ceiling. It’s everywhere up their nose in the hair. Oh, God, that’s probably not probably that is by far the worst story.
00:46:56:13 – 00:47:12:23
Rod
Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, that’s crazy. I’ll tell you a quick story of mine. So, you know, I owned 800 houses at one point, and I had a house on a canal down here south of us here. And and I get a call from wingnut TV here in Sarasota, and, like, is this Rod Klipsch? Yes. Do you own the house?
00:47:12:23 – 00:47:29:29
Rod
It’s so and so boiled terrorism said yes. Have you seen the news? No. And and they said, well, they just busted your tenant with and it was in the tonnage of cocaine and it was the Colombian drug lord. And they’re like, we’d like to interview you. And I’m like, This is the time of Escobar and blowing up planes.
00:47:29:29 – 00:47:35:09
Rod
And I’m like, There’s no frickin way you get me on a on a camera. But yeah.
00:47:35:13 – 00:47:36:10
Jay
Yeah. What do you say to that?
00:47:36:10 – 00:47:52:28
Rod
Yeah. No, I said, no, I’m not going to get interviewed. But you know, what’s interesting is the guy had 800 credit score and I mean, you know, when they had that type of credit score, you typically don’t even look much further than that. And and yeah, but he was a total drug drug dealer. But anyway, you know.
00:47:53:00 – 00:48:11:29
Jay
One of the things that changing gears a little bit. Sure. One of the things that I have found helps me a lot with the stresses of of day to day life and operations is I heard this in a movie once when I was, you know, a little bit younger and somebody said action is the enemy of thought. And this was somebody that was going through a breakup.
00:48:12:01 – 00:48:15:29
Jay
And, you know, she you know, somebody was trying to talk to her and she was doing gardening or whatever.
00:48:15:29 – 00:48:19:02
Rod
And action is the enemy of fear, too.
00:48:19:04 – 00:48:42:11
Jay
So. So I hadn’t heard that one. I like it. So when I get really stressed out, I just get outside, start doing some manual labor, and particularly on the asset, if, if an assets got me going or even if I’m just at home. But any kind of, you know, everybody’s got their own thing. Some people like the pressure washer, some people like to clean gardening, whatever it is.
00:48:42:11 – 00:48:50:27
Jay
But whenever I get stressed out, I kind of just dive into some manual labor for whether it’s an hour or 2 hours or the whole day and, you know, mitigate to be through.
00:48:50:27 – 00:49:20:07
Rod
Yeah, no, same here. I mean, you know, any time, you know, achievers like us have stress, which is just fear or fear, you know, a massive action always mitigates it for me. And and it will for you to, you know, love it. And whether it’s working with your hands or just really attacking the problem with every thing you can think of, you’ll be able to sleep at night, you know, because you’ve dealt with it, you’ve worked on it, even if it doesn’t turn out fantastic.
00:49:20:09 – 00:49:33:25
Rod
Great, great tip. Absolutely great tip. So you’re still buying? You’re still selling. Is it harder? I’m assuming it’s harder to sell right now because people are having trouble getting financing. No.
00:49:33:27 – 00:49:57:17
Jay
I think it’s healthy. I think that if you’re trying to sell strictly on pro forma, you’re done. You know that’s not happening. Right. And if you’re holding out for every last dollar, right, you’re also done right. Because a buyer that pays you, you know, top dollar in this moment likely either cancels or betrays you. Right. And or the bank doesn’t lend.
00:49:57:19 – 00:50:18:12
Jay
So you really just have to be at market acceptable rates right now. And let’s face it, that’s got to be somewhere in line with interest rates are just north of where rates are right. And the more meat you have on the bone for a buyer, the more likely you are to close. So there’s been a big disconnect between buyers and sellers for the past 12 or 18 months, and I think that’s starting to fall a little bit more in line.
00:50:18:14 – 00:50:23:17
Rod
I’m surprised you’re selling anything right now. You obviously don’t need to sell.
00:50:23:20 – 00:50:39:19
Jay
Yeah, I think it’s kind of my next five on my way analogy when you meet your investment criteria and so there’s an exit available to you, I take it, and then I’m at that I’m on every asset. So, you know, the market’s come down quite a bit and we’re money good on everything.
00:50:39:21 – 00:50:48:03
Rod
It’s great. That’s great. You know, we talked briefly before we started recording about your idea of having kind of a like like a little shark tank. Why don’t you speak to that? I’d love to put it out there.
00:50:48:09 – 00:51:14:03
Jay
Well, it’s something that I would I would really enjoy doing. I think that, you know, partnership with you and use venue to get it out there. We like to invite a whole bunch of people to a a day, a full day of a workshop training that also has a shark tank feature where whether it’s five or ten or 15 or 20 people put together their best pitch.
00:51:14:03 – 00:51:19:29
Jay
We do a little pitch deck and they come with the idea to raise equity for the down payment and.
00:51:19:29 – 00:51:24:13
Rod
They stand in front of them trembling. And you’ve got fund man people. They’re well.
00:51:24:15 – 00:51:36:17
Jay
That would be the idea. We would have people that have funds that are desperate to put this money out. Right? And then you have people on the other side that are desperate to get money to do good deals. And if you bring a deal that’s worthwhile, you probably leave with the equity in.
00:51:36:18 – 00:51:52:11
Rod
Yeah, yeah. No, I love the idea. So I’m so I love it. I’ve seen other other, you know, people in my industry try it, but I think with your connections and, and background, you know, we could we could really have some fun with that and.
00:51:52:14 – 00:51:54:10
Jay
Well, you have a, you have something coming up.
00:51:54:10 – 00:52:00:10
Rod
What is I’ve got my Orlando boot camp September 15th through the 17th. It may be too soon.
00:52:00:10 – 00:52:17:26
Jay
That’s too soon for that. But I’m in Europe at that time. Okay. But if you’re going to do a second one, I’d love to bring a handful of, you know, guys that have, you know, long histories of operational success that can write, that can be on a panel or that can help and do an education portion and then, you know, lead up to a pitch day.
00:52:17:26 – 00:52:19:00
Rod
We will make that happen.
00:52:19:00 – 00:52:33:06
Jay
And then we do that with, you know, like I have several friends that have funds that are they’ve been great operators and now they’re just getting older rather than retire. They’re actually fast lending money now. So are not lending money, but investing money. Right. Right. People’s deal. So, you know, it’d be.
00:52:33:08 – 00:52:51:29
Rod
Yeah, that’d be fun. It’d be a lot of fun. And so we’re definitely going to we’re going to be bringing that out here at some point. I will tell you, we will make that happen because that that I just I would love to just be a fly on the wall for it, frankly. So do you have any morning routines that that, you know, a lot of super successful people have this thing they do every morning.
00:52:51:29 – 00:53:02:05
Rod
Sometimes it involves motivation or prayer or manifestation or exercise or all the above. Is there anything that you do consistently that might have aided your success?
00:53:02:07 – 00:53:16:27
Jay
I don’t have anything that I did consistently in the morning that may have aided by success. However, I do something consistently now because I’m an old man and you know, I walk like four or five or six miles first thing every morning. I used to run, but, you know, right.
00:53:16:27 – 00:53:25:12
Rod
Same here. Tore my meniscus. Both knees that now are right. This gay little elliptical bike around the neighborhood to the amusement of my neighbors. But yeah.
00:53:25:15 – 00:53:29:26
Jay
But you know, the walk is it’s you know it’s nice because you get your exercise in and I can actually.
00:53:29:26 – 00:53:30:23
Rod
But you can think.
00:53:30:26 – 00:53:45:22
Jay
I can think, right. I can go quiet and I can get my thoughts together or I can get on the phone and work the whole way. So, you know, I’m kind of checking a couple of apps of my, you know, Yeah. The fitness and finance at the same time. Or maybe I’m making social goals or whatever it is.
00:53:45:22 – 00:53:48:11
Jay
So that’s been a great way to start a nice routine.
00:53:48:11 – 00:53:51:12
Rod
You have a nice little area around your place. You can do that.
00:53:51:18 – 00:54:11:07
Jay
I mean, I happen to now at this time, but even if I didn’t, I would still still do it would still make a track. Yeah. One of the things that do that’s a little bit different is I tend to over improve assets, especially affordable homes. Okay. When I say affordable, it’s not just there’s affordable means different things to different people.
00:54:11:07 – 00:54:12:27
Rod
Right. Right. It’s a very global thing.
00:54:12:27 – 00:54:39:05
Jay
Well, if you’re in my business, affordable means income restrictions. But if you’re a layperson affordable just means a house that doesn’t cost much. But, you know, in, you know, affordable to me means it’s either HUD hap or it’s low tech, you know, so tax credit property, right. But one of the things that I’ve always done is I really over improve these assets and I get a lot of like, why you know, why do you do that?
00:54:39:07 – 00:54:42:22
Jay
And I think we’ve probably really already covered and we probably don’t have to hit it again.
00:54:42:22 – 00:54:56:29
Rod
But but actually I think it’s good to hammer at home because when you have an asset and in any market and you’re above your competitors and your improvements, I mean, you’re going to stay full all the time.
00:54:56:29 – 00:55:15:06
Jay
Well, if you don’t keep up your asset, it’s a perpetual cycle. So what happens is if you let somebody move out and you don’t, you know, bring that unit back up to a high standard, the quality of the tenant that you’re going to put back in, there’s just a little bit worse. Yeah. And then now Granny next door doesn’t want to live next to that person.
00:55:15:06 – 00:55:39:03
Jay
So granny moves out and then now the quality of that unit goes down a little bit and it starts a cycle that brings assets from B to C and see the C minus. Yeah. So yeah. So reinvesting and keeping your property up to a very high standard is is critical. It’s just absolutely critical to the success. It’s our very that’s why curb appeal is our first you know C our five C’s.
00:55:39:06 – 00:55:46:28
Rod
Love it love it, love it. If, if you weren’t in real estate right now, what else might you be doing?
00:55:47:00 – 00:55:50:17
Jay
What else would I like to do? Yeah, what else would I be doing? Well.
00:55:50:19 – 00:55:53:00
Rod
Like in an in business.
00:55:53:03 – 00:55:59:12
Jay
Well, I can fantasize about what I would like to do. Okay. Now, I would love to be like, sports agent. And really, that would be super fun.
00:55:59:12 – 00:56:03:02
Rod
Like a sports agent where you’re actually signing up that.
00:56:03:05 – 00:56:06:27
Jay
I love the art of the deal. I love putting deals together. I love bringing people together.
00:56:06:27 – 00:56:08:03
Rod
So you like Jerry Maguire?
00:56:08:06 – 00:56:12:12
Jay
Oh, I love that. Just actually, I haven’t seen that movie in quite some time, but it was an awesome movie. Yeah.
00:56:12:12 – 00:56:13:12
Rod
Show me the money.
00:56:13:13 – 00:56:32:04
Jay
Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, that’s great. But it’s just something that’s always been interesting because I like sports and I like business and it’s at a high level and I think some of those guys are the sharpest of the sharp. They’re also relatively cutthroat, but I don’t want to be cut through, but I don’t mind navigating around those types of interesting.
00:56:32:04 – 00:56:34:20
Jay
But I love the art of the deal. I love It’s.
00:56:34:22 – 00:56:35:21
Rod
A good book, actually.
00:56:35:22 – 00:56:39:15
Jay
Yeah, I haven’t read it, but I have seen Trump’s book.
00:56:39:15 – 00:56:51:29
Rod
Yeah, I didn’t realize that. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good book. The Art of the Deal. Nice, nice. Yeah. So that gets you that gets the juices flowing when you get where you’ve got a deal. Do you love you loved the negotiation piece of it as.
00:56:51:29 – 00:57:19:06
Jay
Well I my favorite part of a deal cycle is identifying it, reverse engineering it, negotiating it. And then I, I get a little bit of a rise out of the renovation. But but the completion of the renovation I love like the finished product. Yeah, the finished product is great. And then it’s just normal operations, which kind of bores me.
00:57:19:09 – 00:57:33:12
Jay
Yeah. Yeah. And until, which points, you know, we go for cycle and, but the sale is, is like it’s not, it’s anti-climatic because whatever we’re going to get in that moment I’ve already factored it. So it’s, it’s the transition that I really like.
00:57:33:12 – 00:57:56:26
Rod
You’re, you’re the artist archetype and the entrepreneur archetypes, those three archetypes, there’s the artist who’s the, who’s the innovator, the creator, the the yeah, I’m innovator creator. And then there’s the entrepreneur that brings it to market, just wants to get it going and then get out. And then there’s a manager leader. You’re not the manager leader in the same here.
00:57:56:26 – 00:58:12:02
Rod
I mean, I’m the entrepreneur as well, but those are the three archetype, of course, according to Tony Robbins. And it made sense to me the way he describes them. And, you know, the manager leaders, the nurturer, and they keep the thing going and, you know, yawn. But, but it’s just yeah, yeah.
00:58:12:08 – 00:58:15:26
Jay
It’s not something I, you know, I don’t enjoy the day to day now.
00:58:15:29 – 00:58:18:01
Rod
But I like some people do, some people love it.
00:58:18:01 – 00:58:19:27
Jay
And you know, we have people that thrive that equation.
00:58:20:03 – 00:58:37:25
Rod
Yeah. So I want to circle back to one thing I asked you previously. So, you know, again, these have got so many listeners that just know they need to do something. Is there anything you could say that might inspire them to take action in?
00:58:37:28 – 00:58:41:15
Jay
Well, just depends on really in what regard. When you say they need to do something, well.
00:58:41:15 – 00:58:51:26
Rod
They need to do some other than their W-2 job. They need to, you know, and I tell people, pick a frickin vehicle because there’s opportunities in all sorts of different vehicles that there’s great opportunity to buy businesses.
00:58:51:29 – 00:59:16:28
Jay
But I think so. I mean, before I really got into this, I was shopping businesses. I looked at medical billing companies in this business and that business. And it’s just so hard to make sense of any of it. But when it comes to buying real estate, I mean, obviously, you know, when you buy one deal and you manage that one deal, maybe the positive cash flow is not going to change your life in.
00:59:17:00 – 00:59:47:21
Jay
But it is it does start a journey. And life is a series of events and the journey that you start by investing in real estate. It begins somewhere. And if you make a good investment, more than likely that’s going to lead you into another good investment and additional investments And whether you take those full cycle or hold them long term, everybody’s path may be a little bit different and investment strategies may be a little bit different.
00:59:47:24 – 00:59:50:00
Jay
But we know we all have to start somewhere.
00:59:50:02 – 01:00:06:25
Rod
Yeah, yeah, you got to take that first step. You know, you take that first step. And Faith called the law of the first deal. Typically the scariest, the hardest takes, the longest I see with my students all the time. Then they get one and next thing you know, they have three. You know, they realize that the only limitation was between their ears.
01:00:06:27 – 01:00:26:15
Jay
But I think in the beginning, though, a lot of people don’t like to exit their property. Some people are like, hey, I’m you know, I don’t I’m making positive cash flow and this why should I get rid of it? Especially people who have a W-2 job in addition. But sometimes if you’re really going to grow in this career, you have to take those little successes.
01:00:26:17 – 01:00:30:19
Jay
You have to go full trip, full cycle on a few different or raise.
01:00:30:19 – 01:00:31:00
Rod
Money.
01:00:31:04 – 01:00:32:29
Jay
Or raise money or race has never been my thing.
01:00:32:29 – 01:00:48:25
Rod
So I know, I know you’re I’m glad you’re sharing your model because obviously it’s extremely successful and it is for others as well. But, you know, the thing I will tell you is if you don’t have the money, you can raise the money. That’s I’ve got students that have raised hundreds of millions. But well.
01:00:48:28 – 01:01:12:09
Jay
It’s interesting because what’s going on today, if if if you’re if you’re good in your deal structure and I’ve actually helped a couple of people do this recently, you can get your portion of the equity through the art of the deal. Let’s say just take a hypothetical. Let’s say you’re buying a property. Let’s just say it’s a fragment, say a $2 million purchase, and we’ll just use a small number for now.
01:01:12:12 – 01:01:30:09
Jay
So if if you either may or may not have a real estate license, but even if you don’t, I think you can negotiate in a consulting fee. So let’s say you don’t really have the equity you need. Most investors, most investors are going to LP, investors are going to require you to have what percentage of your own money would you say, Hmm.
01:01:30:11 – 01:01:32:05
Rod
We put 10% in, but whatever.
01:01:32:06 – 01:01:40:19
Jay
Okay, so in this case it would be $200,000, right? So you have a 200 a $2 sale, the seller of that, if you can go.
01:01:40:19 – 01:01:46:21
Rod
No, no, no to mine or sell you and or you’re talking about raising all the cash, no debt and well.
01:01:46:23 – 01:01:54:14
Jay
No, just let’s just talk about the the equity portion. So if you’re a $2 million purchase, let’s say it’s what, 1,000,005 mortgage. A million mortgage.
01:01:54:14 – 01:01:57:26
Rod
Somewhere. So you’re raising a half a million bucks from this. An illustration.
01:01:57:28 – 01:02:11:29
Jay
Yeah. So so in that case, you probably 50 grand. That’s so easy to negotiate into a deal, right? In the terms a consultant fee or a commission if you have a licensed right. So you really don’t need any money if you have the right to, you know.
01:02:12:01 – 01:02:30:21
Rod
Agreed. Agreed. I mean I, I agreed. I’ve students about thousands of doors myself. I’ve got 5000 that I, I don’t have a dime in. I mean, you know, that’s that that’s, that’s the business now but it takes longer just to to get the cash flow because you’re you’re typically offering a preferred return to your investors and that’s got to be satisfied.
01:02:30:28 – 01:02:50:07
Rod
Then you’re repositioning the asset. You got to give them their money back before you really start seeing some cash flow. So the only cash you’re getting is acquisition fees, which are not insignificant or consulting fee, like you said, however you structure it. But it is it’s different. I think your model, if you can use your own money, is more lucrative, faster.
01:02:50:09 – 01:02:52:08
Rod
And you know, I love it.
01:02:52:11 – 01:03:04:16
Jay
You have to start somewhere, but you got to start you have to start with whatever’s available to you. Thank you. So if that’s what it is, the main thing is, is never buy a deal because you need to generate those fees for free.
01:03:04:16 – 01:03:15:29
Rod
All agreed. Agreed. And there are, there are operators that are that did it these last couple of years that are sucking wind right now that that were too aggressive. They weren’t conservative. You know I’ve seen these operators they don’t have operating reserves.
01:03:16:01 – 01:03:17:03
Jay
It’s just not sustainable.
01:03:17:03 – 01:03:17:19
Rod
No, it’s not.
01:03:17:19 – 01:03:33:01
Jay
You have to if you buy a deal under any of those scenarios, and even though you might not have as much equity as you otherwise would like if you’re buying. Right. Right. And even though you have high leverage with the press and everything, it’ll work out right. And then those checks will get much larger.
01:03:33:05 – 01:03:57:10
Rod
Yeah, Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Don’t wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate and wait. Right. So I’m out of question. I mean, I really enjoyed this conversation, brother. I got to tell you, that’s really been a lot of fun for me. And and like I said, I’m so grateful that that you actually came down here and you came over on your own dime and just to add value and absolutely want to help you realize that.
01:03:57:10 – 01:04:07:06
Jay
What I think the time is right, right now. I think that, again, if you can if you can buy a deal based on today’s interest rates, on today’s insurance rates. Right.
01:04:07:08 – 01:04:21:02
Rod
You’re golden. I mean, honestly, I think Florida is going to go crazy. I mean, the political environment, people moving in here, in my opinion. I think you’re going to see California prices here at some point.
01:04:21:04 – 01:04:29:28
Jay
Yeah, I think we’re that way. We’re heading that direction, that’s for sure. In other markets, too, like Mecklenburg County, which is Charlotte in North Carolina, has been a very, very strong market with job influx.
01:04:30:04 – 01:04:35:09
Rod
So you seek out, you know, happen like tech properties.
01:04:35:11 – 01:04:43:13
Jay
I’m a market rate guy, but 95% of what I own slight tech and no kidding but not happy. I mean, I have half contract properties, but I just don’t want them.
01:04:43:13 – 01:04:45:02
Rod
I see I saved you like like.
01:04:45:06 – 01:04:57:05
Jay
Okay, it’s not really that that’s a fair to manage. So I do third party on those and I just hate it. So moving away from the HUD contract deals, but, but like tech is, it’s just like on an A market rate property.
01:04:57:08 – 01:05:01:26
Rod
And no desire to hold legacy assets and just cash flow. Sure.
01:05:01:29 – 01:05:09:09
Jay
Okay. Every deal I buy, I figure I’ve got to hold as a legacy asset. Just when somebody, you know.
01:05:09:11 – 01:05:11:27
Rod
Makes you an offer you can’t refuse. Yeah, it’s done. Gotcha.
01:05:11:27 – 01:05:16:17
Jay
But, you know, I’m in it for the long haul for for each and every one. I’m just.
01:05:16:19 – 01:05:36:00
Rod
Nice. Nice. Well, listen, Jay, I’m super grateful you’re coming down here, and I’m. I’m really serious about we. We’re going to make that Shark Tank thing happen because that will be awesome. And like you said, we probably get people to help sponsor it and and make it a little or nothing investment for the people who want to enjoy it, you know?
01:05:36:01 – 01:05:37:08
Jay
So it’s a win.
01:05:37:08 – 01:05:40:18
Rod
Yeah. Love it. Love it. Well, I appreciate you, brother. Thank you, sir. Coming. Appreciate.
