Branding Yourself & Your Team

Full Transcript Below

Intro
Hi. My name is Rod Khleif and I’m the host of “The Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing” podcast. And every week, I interview Multifamily Rock Stars and we talk about how they built incredible wealth for themselves and their families through multifamily properties. So hit the “Like” and “Subscribe” buttons to get notified every Monday when a new episode comes out. Let’s get to it.

Rod
Welcome to another edition of How to Build Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. I’m Rod Khleif, and I’m thrilled you’re here. And I know you’re going to get tremendous value from the woman that we’re interviewing today. Her name is Sharon Vornholt, and she’s the owner of Innovative Property Solutions. And she’s in Louisville, where we just got invested and final on a large asset. I don’t think we got it, but I love that submarket. And so she’s an expert in marketing and branding for real estate investors. And she’s also an expert in probate investing, which is a little unusual. We’ve never had that on the show here, but looking forward to getting into this. Sharon, welcome to the show.

Sharon
Well, thanks for having me, Rod. I’m excited to be here.

Rod
Yeah. Let’s have some fun today. So, you know, maybe you could give us a little more background. That was a very cursory bio. So maybe tell us a little bit about you and how you got into real estate and why you love it and so on and so forth.

Sharon
Well, growing up, my dad was a general contractor. And being the oldest of four children, I was the best behaved. So I got to go traipsing around with him on his job sites. And he did a lot of commercial buildings, commercial renovations, and such as that. So from an early age, I had an interest in real estate in general. And years down the road I went and I spent some years in the medical field. And then I opened– I had a home inspection company, which was an unlikely turn. But a realtor came in one day and said, how would you like to go to a REIA meeting? And I said something like, what’s a REIA meeting? Because at that time, I didn’t know that you could be involved in real estate if you were not a realtor. That was something that I didn’t understand. 1998 is when I went to my first REIA meeting. And after that time, so it’s been almost 25 years. I’ve gone pretty much ever since then. So I worked part-time in real estate for about ten years and I was– because I had another business. So I would do a rehab, then buy a rental– went kind of a really slow path. And then in 2008, which was the best of times and the worst of times, I closed the home inspection business and went to real estate full-time. The problem was that nobody could get a mortgage. And, you know, the buyers couldn’t get a retail mortgage at that time. And I found myself with a few houses. So I thought, I really don’t want to rehab these houses and be stuck with them for God knows how long. So I decided to wholesale them with ten years of experience at that time, I just called someone and said, do you want to buy these houses? And they said, well, sure. And I thought, boy, that was easy. Well, we all know wholesaling is not that easy, but it worked out for me, and I just kind of became an accidental wholesaler in those years. Like you I sold– I ended up selling properties. The properties, they got kind of upside down in that market [inaudible].

Rod
Kind of upside down?

Sharon
I got out with the skin on my back.

Rod
Yeah. I didn’t make it. Let me interrupt for one second. If you just allow me. I apologize, but I want to mention a couple of things. A lot of people may not even know what a REIA meeting is. So it’s like a meet-up group, guys. But this was back in the day before meet-ups or anything like that, where people would get together. Real Estate Investor Association is really what the words stand for, I believe. But it was really just a bunch of people interested in real estate getting together. So please continue. I just wanted to make sure they understood what that meant.

Sharon
No, and I should have probably clarified that. We had a large group, too, here in Louisville. About 650, 700 people at the time.

Rod
Wow.

Sharon
So we had a very large group, which after 2008, shrunk down to a few hundred because people just lost their shirts. But it was the perfect time to make that transition. And, you know, I’ve always loved real estate. But I realized along the way, if I had looked back on my own journey and one thing that I failed to do, while I was really good at marketing, I was good at sourcing deals. I had failed to really adequately brand myself and look back on those wasted years. And you’ve got to find a way to be different from everybody else, because, at the end of the day, Rod does what he does, and so does a whole bunch of other people. And, you know, if you’re in the single-family world, you’re all buying houses. Same deal.

Rod
Right. Exactly. Now, circling back to something you just said a minute ago, you said wholesaling. You know, everybody knows about wholesaling single-family, and very few people do it in a multifamily space. So I put a post in my Facebook group for my warriors, which are my mentorship coaching students. And I said, who’s made over 100,000 wholesaling, a multifamily? A dozen. And this is about almost a year ago, a dozen had made over 100,000. Two of them made close to a million wholesaling property. And I know it’s been a lot more since then. So, you know, don’t– I will say this about wholesaling. I mean, there’s some opportunity there, but you’ve got to be able to find the deals. And so we’re going to talk a little bit about that. I think today, again, I know you’re known for– and you’ve got a podcast as well. Let’s talk about real estate investing. I think we’re going to interview me at some point here in the very near future as well.

Sharon
We are.

Rod
And so that’ll be fun. But, you know, let’s get into the marketing and the branding because, you know, I know that you’ve been mostly focused on single families, but the reason I want you on the show is I know that they cross-pollinate over to multifamily. And so, you know, in fact, some of my most successful students are the ones that took that, you know, some of these unique strategies like bulky mail and those yellow letters and things like that and used it in a multifamily and space very successfully. So, why don’t you tell us a little bit about some of your marketing? Well, maybe branding first. Start with branding strategies and then we’ll go into marketing.

Sharon
Well, I think people confuse branding with solely the physical attributes. Do you think of Coca-Cola or any of the giant brands? It’s the physical attributes. And with your brand, sure, they’re important. You’re going to need a good headshot. You need a logo. You need a consistent presence across all platforms. But at the end of the day, your brand is what people say about you when you walk out of the room. It’s how they feel about you. If they say that Rod, he is a smart guy, he’s trustworthy. Time and time again, he says what he does, that’s really your brand. Conversely, if you’re the guy who maybe doesn’t leave that feeling or the girl who is known for the one who cuts corners, that ultimately is your brand. So it’s the way people feel about you. It’s their trust in the way they want to do business with you. And you can make an offer on a property. It doesn’t matter if it’s commercial, or residential, it doesn’t matter. You do not have to necessarily have the lowest offer. You have to be the best branded and the most likable and the most trustworthy. And that really is your brand in a nutshell.

Rod
No, you said it and– honestly, at a high level, the most important piece is integrity and follow-through, you know. But let me say this mechanically, just because it’s silly for me to miss this opportunity. You know, when you set up a brand, guys, there’s a couple of quick things you need to do, okay. One is you need to find a name that makes sense. Now, in the multifamily space, most names end in capital or real estate or investments or equity, things like that. Like ours is CRE Equity and Capital. So you need to check the name with the Secretary of State’s office. Then you also need to go to uspto.gov, which is the US Patent and Trademark Office, and see if the name is available. I had a student that didn’t do that and he got a cease and desist and had to change his name. So make sure that you do that, uspto.gov, and then also, then go on GoDaddy and see if you can find a domain name that kind of ties into that brand name that you’re coming up with. It may not be exactly like ours is CREE Capital instead of CRE Equity Capital. That was actually taken, believe it or not. So you’ve got to also do the domain name. And then you’re ready to hang your shingle, you know. That was more mechanical. But you’re right. Your brand is who you are and what you say and how you follow through and your integrity. And so, no, that’s a really great answer. So, well, like as– let’s shuffle into marketing then. How do people find deals in this hot market?

Sharon
Well, it’s tough. No doubt about it.

Rod
Yeah.

Sharon
All the new things are great. All of the tried and true old-school things still work great. Direct mail still works great. A personalized direct mail. Nobody wants to get a postcard. I’m sending Rod a postcard. I’m not going to say hi, friend, I want to buy your house.

Rod
Right.

Sharon
It’s going to get like zero results. But I believe in marketing tailored to the person, you know, marketing, direct mail marketing comes down to– you’ve got your list is always the first thing. If you don’t have a good list, whether you’re marketing for multifamily or single-family homes, your list has to be a tight, concise list. You need to be marketing to the right people. And then you have to say, what kind of a mail piece am I going to use? So you can use postcards in commercial. You can use postcards in most residential with the exception of probates. These folks do not respond well to anything but a white, computer-generated, mail merge letter. It’s a very time-sensitive time for them. So you need to know, send the right mail piece and your message has to be consistent. The message to buy an apartment community would be very different than a message to buy a foreclosure. Say a single-family foreclosure. So you have to do your mail piece, you know, your message, and then your campaigns. You have to be consistent with your marketing, whatever that is. Because in my world, 81% of your deals, not your calls, but your actual deals will come out or beyond the fifth mailing, you build up momentum. Its kind of like Darren Hardy said in his book “The Compound Effect”. You build that momentum. But what is so curious is that your competition, 90% of your perceived competition will quit honor before the third mailing. So don’t be discouraged if you are doing direct mail and they have 20 letters or 30 letters. But let’s think about this for a minute. In my area, the MLS has thousands of people vying for the same property. So is there really a lot of competition if somebody gets 20 or 30 letters in the beginning? No, not really. Because it’s all about the follow-up. These people are going to stop doing that. They’re not going to follow up. And it’s been my experience that about 81% of your deals will come from 80%, 85% of your deals will come from follow-up. After they’ve said no, in fact.

Rod
Right.

Sharon
It’s all about the follow-up.

Rod
Yeah. Let me interject a couple of things, if I may, that are specific to the multifamily space. So if you’re going to mail multifamily guys, I would encourage you to actually– what you’re going to find is most assets, commercial assets, five units or more are owned in an entity like an LLC, a limited partnership, a Corporation, whatever. And if you mail to the registered agent of that entity, where’s that mail going to end up. And so what I would encourage you to do is to actually break down each entity. And it’s going to sound like a lot of work, and it is. But I’m going to tell you why it’s not as bad as you think. Okay. So literally break down each entity. Go to the Secretary of state’s office, and see where XYZ Trust or XYZ LLC, who the principals are, and get their home addresses. Sometimes you can even get their phone numbers and mail them there. Okay. Now, I’m going to tell you, you know, me personally, the average response rate on mail is probably a half to 1%. When I was doing some of the things I’m going to share real quick here with you about mailing, I was getting a 6% to 9% response rate, and I’m not exaggerating. A 100 letters, six to nine responses. So let me mention a couple of quick things. Something you just said, Sharon, which is, you know, it’s got to be personalized. That envelope should be handwritten. If it’s an envelope, the letter should have the owner’s name and address at the top, and it should have the property address and the first line of the letter. Do you agree with that? You’re right.

Sharon
Yes.

Rod
And then, you know, you mention the list. Like I said, you’re not going to– in a multifamily space, you’re not going to mail every multifamily. I would encourage you to go after people that have owned, ideally 20 plus years. If not, if the list is too small and I’m going to tell you, 20 plus years in the market like mine in Tampa, the Tampa, MSA, Metropolitan Statistical Area, you might have a few hundred max. Okay. So it’s not thousands and thousands. So if they’re 20 plus years and if the list is too small, then go to ten plus years. But the reason why is you have a much better opportunity for some seller financing if they’ve owned it a long time. But those are some of the key pieces. And then you mention the consistency. The consistency is critical. You know, if you’re not going to, you know, remain consistent, it don’t even bother starting as far as– do you agree with me on that, Sharon?

Sharon
I agree. You’re throwing your money away.

Rod
Right.

Sharon
And I tell people, people say, how long do you mail to someone. And for me, it’s until I buy the house. Someone else buys the house. Or they say that’s not a deal. Maybe there’s just no deal there. They say, take you off the list. But I feel that way about commercial properties, too, because I have a friend who bought a lot of self-storage units around the lake. He actually went around and visited these people and they would say, well, I’m going to retire in five years or whatever. Fine, it’s okay if I keep in touch with you. So he would send them a mail piece or something, maybe a catchy something in the mail every few months. And once a year he would go visit these people. And guess what? Over time, he bought every one of those facilities as they retired. But that was because he did something that was different. He was not just the person who was a once-and-done person.

Rod
Well, you know, one of the things I teach in my boot camps is, you know, if you’re willing to do what other people aren’t willing to do, you’ll always be a success. And that’s a great example of it. I use my own example, which is knocking on the doors of people in foreclosure. I mean, very few people do that, but I did it and bought about 500 houses that way back in the day. Yeah, so the follow-up is critical. And again, if you’re going to do multifamily, I wouldn’t go over about 40, 50 doors. By the way, guys, I would do just do a search for five to 50 units and then again try to find the people that have owned for a good bit. And then those are the ones you mail. And that’s when the mail is super successful. Now, do you do outbound calls as well, Sharon?

Sharon
We have done those in the past. It’s not been a focus in my business. It’s been more direct mail and those sorts of things and then marketing in other ways.

Rod
Like?

Sharon
Like, I have a friend whose podcast brings him all the deals he can get. So you can market yourself in subtle ways through your podcast, through building a brand, through getting known. Speaking, if you are out and about and you speak at your local real estate meetings or I go different places and talk about what I do. It’s not my business, but I do it enough that it brings me deals all the time.

Rod
Wow. Now see, and guys, one of the things that another thing I teach in my boot camp is the different ways to create reach. You know, we live in the greatest time on Earth for creating reach. I mean, guys, my team got me on TikTok four months ago and I couldn’t spell TikTok four months ago. And now I’ve got videos that have been watched 700,000 times. It’s insane. Of course, my wife does a bikini one and she’s got a million and a half like in four days. But, you know, you don’t want to see me in a bikini. But the point is the reach is so incredible to create reach right now. The podcast, you know, my podcast is pushing 13 million downloads at this point. And, you know, it’s funny. It’s the reason that I started teaching. But Facebook groups, you know, we’ve got a Facebook group, the largest multifamily Facebook group. And just by managing it, you know, it’s become extraordinary. There are 45,000 people. And by the way, if you’re not in that group and you’re listening to this, get in there, okay? Because there are a lot of amazing people in there that want the same thing you want. It’s called Multifamily Real Estate-Rod Khleif. And then there’s Instagram, and there’s Twitter, and there’s– LinkedIn is very good for commercial real estate because you can get investors there for sure. So there are just so many ways for you guys to create reach. And here’s another thing. Let me mention this, and I don’t want to monopolize the conversation here, but, you know, with meetup groups, even you can create your own. And what you do if you’re not an expert yet is you bring in experts. You bring in people like me and Sharon here to talk. And just by being the host, you’re perceived to have authority. Like, you know what you’re doing. You just know how to ask the right questions. Right?

Sharon
Right.

Rod
And so you can do that with a podcast. You can do that with a meetup group. You can do that with, you know, YouTube videos. So there are just so many ways you can create reach in this incredible environment that we live in right now. Do you agree with me, Sharon?

Sharon
Yeah. Social media is huge.

Rod
Right.

Sharon
People completely underestimate the value of social media. And it will be– the channel that’s the best for you will vary. And I tell people, don’t start with every channel in the beginning.

Rod
Right.

Sharon
Start with a couple and then master that and then build-out. And you’ve been able to do that successfully. But you didn’t do everything all at once.

Rod
Nope.

Sharon
You did a little bit at a time. But some of the best connections that I’ve ever made, people that have become friends, good friends, came from Facebook. It’s crazy. The next thing you know, you’re meeting them somewhere, you’re having a meet-up, then you’re able to co-market or, you know, promote their events. But you cannot even begin to realize the power of networking. You may get some good things to happen to you five years down the road. It may not happen today, but it all just builds and builds and builds.

Rod
Yeah. In fact, you know, guys, this single-family space, not as much as the multifamily space, but multifamily is absolutely a team sport. And networking is an absolute prerequisite to this business, and, you know, and so, which is why, you know, my live events are so. You know, I’ve got one, by the way, guys, coming up in July, the end of July. I’m thinking about 1000 people there. And so incredible opportunity to network and meet people. And we actually even force that. But, you know, we make you get up and meet other people. So I shouldn’t have said that on the podcast.

Sharon
No, I like that.

Rod
They’ll be like, Oh, shit, I’m not going. But, you know, the introverts. But, you know, the great thing about the business that we’re in is, you know, some of the most successful partnerships I’ve seen are an introverted, you know, analytical person with an outgoing mouthpiece like Rod here, you know, and Sharon. You know, they’re out there not afraid to talk and meet people. And, you know, those are some of the best, most successful partnerships I’ve seen in my world. In the multifamily world. Oh, God. I was going to say something about social, and I forgot. Darn it.

Sharon
That made me think of introverts, too, because you would not know it. But I tell people I’m a fully recovered introvert. I used to be the person who would go looking to see 500 people at the REIA meeting. And I would go, okay, where’s a safe chair with somebody I know. And you have to get out of that. You absolutely have to say, I’m going to go meet two people, three people, and you look up one day and you’re a whole new person. I’ll say that to all the introverts out there.

Rod
Yeah. You have to get uncomfortable, guys. The magnificent life of your dreams is just on the other side of a little discomfort. And, you know, I used to be– I don’t think I was an introvert. I was just so afraid of being embarrassed or humiliated just because of some childhood experiences. And, you know, I just pushed through that stuff. But back to social for a minute. You know, if you’re going to do one of those things to create reach, there are two critical pieces to it. Okay? So regardless of the channel and I would encourage you to pick the medium that you enjoy communicating in the most. If it’s a video, then do YouTube or do YouTube videos. If it’s audio, maybe doing an audio-only podcast, although I would encourage you to do video as well, because you can cross-pollinate the content. But maybe it’s writing and you do a blog. You’ve got a blog, too, don’t you, Sharon?

Sharon
I do.

Rod
Real estate blog. Yeah.

Sharon
Yeah. I have to laugh that we knew nothing about naming things in 2010.

Rod
What do you mean naming them? What do you mean?

Sharon
Then they– everybody is going, that’s a terrible name. You know that– now is that at the time–

Rod
Oh, Louisville Gals Real Estate. Yeah, I like it. No, it’s unique. Okay.

Sharon
It’s unique.

Rod
Anytime you can be unique, you will stand out from the crowd. And I tell people this when they’re going out and talking to brokers to try to get deals, the more unique you can be, the better chance you’ve got to be in the person that ends up with the deal. But back to reach for one second. Two critical pieces. Okay. You can’t put out crap. If you put out crap, you are crap. Okay? So you’ve got to put out good content. I stole that line from somebody else. But then the second thing is you have to be consistent. If you’re going to do a podcast or a meet-up group or on anything, don’t think you’re going to do it for a few months and stop. You are doing it for years. Okay. So make sure, first of all, it’s something you enjoy. So it’s a medium you enjoy. You’re not going to be uncomfortable. And then secondly, recognize that you know, this business, both single-family or multifamily, is not a get rich quick thing. It’s to become super freaking wealthy overtime thing if you buy assets to cash flow and you hold onto them, but you’re going to be doing it the rest of your life. And so, you know, put that hat on and recognize that. And, you know, I remember when I first started doing videos, in fact, I come across them sometimes and they’re so freaking bad. Oh, my God, they’re bad.

Sharon
Cringeworthy.

Rod
They’re terrible. And, you know, my ability to communicate was just terrible. But the more you do it, repetition is the mother of skill, right? The more you do it, the more you push yourself, and the better you become. Anyway, so, Sharon, marketing and branding. We talked about mailing and you do mailing and social, it sounds like the most. And you do those REIA meetings as well. And those are pretty much transformed into meetups now, right? Do they use the meetup platform as well? In many cases?

Sharon
Our meeting is on the meetup platform, but we have our own website.

Rod
Okay.

Sharon
I mean, we still have seven, maybe 800 members here that are built back up.

Rod
Wow.

Sharon
Sadly, the women are still few.

Rod
Yeah. That is sad. I got to tell you, I’ve got some super-successful women in my coaching program. I mean, rock star single moms that are just killing it. I mean, literally killing it. And, you know, they’ve created their own Warrior. You know, my mentorship students are called warriors. They’ve created their own Warrior, a women’s group. And we had a warrior-only event here in Sarasota. About 250, my students and then about– I don’t know, 50 of them got together. These women, and had breakfast and lunch together. And it’s really just incredible to see.

Sharon
And one thing you mentioned several times is about coaching. And I’d like to go on record as saying if you’re not getting coaching, you’re just slowing yourself down. You can go faster and further and make more money with a coach. And I don’t know anybody at any level that doesn’t have a coach.

Rod
Yeah. Myself included. Myself included. Yeah.

Sharon
Me, too.

Rod
Co-coaches, masterminds that I belong to, you know, and have for years. Yeah, I mean, listen, Michael Jordan had five coaches, okay? I mean, he had a relationship coach, a health coach, you know, the head coach, Phil Jackson, the assistant coach, you know, nutritional coach. And, you know, he’s the best in the world. And he had five coaches. So, you know, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, I know that you help people with the branding and marketing as well as probate. So if you guys have an interest in that, definitely want to hit up Sharon. Well, listen, I really appreciate you coming on the show, Sharon. This has been a lot of fun. Anything you wish I would have asked you?

Sharon
I don’t think so. I think people just need to take the leap. Whether it’s in commercial, multifamily, single family, your first deal is by far the hardest, the most terrorizing. Once you get past that, it gets to be smooth sailing. I remember somebody saying to me one time, you know, one day you’ll buy a property and you’ll never even look at it. And I went, no, I’ll never do that. And then they’re fast forward a few years, and I did exactly that. Did it the new way. But you just have to get out there, be around like-minded people, have mentors, coaches. You can only get by at the free line so long. It’s a great place to start. Start with Rod’s podcast. You know, if you’re interested in what I do, you can listen to mine, but know that you’re going to have to invest some money in your education and all of that.

Rod
No, you’re absolutely right. You know, and by the way, guys, on that note, if my boot camp is still $197 for three days of training without a big sales pitch. So it’s kind of a duh. If you’re interested in multifamily, it’s drinking through a fire hose. But I want to circle back to something you just said about the first deal. I see it with my students. You know, it’s a lot of the first deal. That could be six months, eight months, sometimes even a year. They haven’t got a deal and they’re moaning and I’m motivating them and pushing them and everything else, and they get a deal. Next thing I know, they have five. Like, what the heck just happened? You know, that first deal is the hardest. It’s the most stressful. It’s the scariest. And then after, it’s like no big deal. And then you mentioned who you hang out with. You know, you guys have heard me talk about this. Who you hang out with is who you become. And so many people default to, you know, the people they went to school with or the people they work with. And, you know, those people might be afraid of your success. They might be, you know, jealous of it. They might be afraid of losing you. You know, they might be afraid of feeling less than if you’re successful. And so be very, very careful and proactive who you allow to influence you. And sometimes it’s family. And I’ll tell you, love your family, but choose your peers. Well, listen, I really appreciate you coming on, Sharon. It’s been a hoot, and it’s a pleasure to meet you as well. Yeah.

Sharon
Thanks for having me, Rod. It’s a pleasure.

Rod
All right. Take care.

Outro
Rod, I know a lot of our listeners are wanting to take their multifamily investing business to the next level. Now, I know you’ve been hard at work helping our warrior students do just that using our “ACT” methodology, which is Awareness, Close, and Transform. Can you explain to the listeners how they can get our help?

Rod
You bet. Guys, we’ve been going nonstop for three years building an amazing community of like-minded people. And our coaching students, which we call our warriors, have had extraordinary results. They’ve purchased thousands and thousands of units and last year we did over 1000 units with our students. And we’re looking to grow this group and take it to the next level. We’re looking for people who want to follow a proven framework that’s really step by step and then leverage our systems and network to raise equity, to find and close deals and to build partnerships nationwide. Now, our warrior community is finding success in any market cycle. So if you’re interested in finding out more about how you can become more of our incredible network and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that are coming very soon, apply to work with us@ at “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345” and we’ll set up a call so you can check us out and we can check you out. That’s “MentorWithRod.com” or text “CRUSH” to “72345”.