With eight years as a Deputy U.S. Marshal followed by six years as a Special Agent with Homeland Security Investigations in New York City, Philip’s journey into real estate began after diving into “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” on the advice of a supervisor. Starting with a duplex in 2015, he quickly scaled to an eight-unit building and diversified his investments into syndications. Discovering single-tenant net leases in 2020 led him to Joel Owens of NNN Invest, where a 1031 exchange transitioned his residential holdings. Now as Director of Acquisitions, Philip focuses on core+ properties and value-add opportunities, leveraging his law enforcement background to provide stable income and equity growth for investors, inspired by real estate podcasts during his commute.
Here’s some of the topics we covered:
- How A New York Deputy Marshall Found Success in Real Estate 00:00
- Demystifying Triple Net Commercial Real Estate 1:58
- Securing Financial Stability 3:50
- Navigating Profitable Markets 11:11
- Key Traits to Seek in Triple Net Real Estate 16:26
- Expert Advice to Jumpstart Your Journey 19:45
- Exploring the Thrills of Triple Net Real Estate 27:35
- Where to Begin Your Real Estate Adventure 31:02
To find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal: Text Partner to 72345 or email Partner@RodKhleif.com
Full Transcript Below
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:19:09
Rod
Welcome to another edition of Lifetime Cash Flow through Real estate investing. I’m Rod Cleef and I’m thrilled you’re here. And we have a unique interview today. We’ve got Philip Bosa here today. And we’re going to talk about triple net assets. something we really haven’t talked about on the show. something I, I like have never actually invested in.
00:00:19:09 – 00:00:22:17
Rod
But I believe in. So, we’re going to have a lot of fun today. Welcome, brother.
00:00:22:19 – 00:00:23:11
Philip
Thanks for having me.
00:00:23:13 – 00:00:43:28
Rod
Absolutely. So, eight years as a deputy U.S. marshal in New York City. we’re going to have to have a beer and tell some stories some time. And then six years special agent with Homeland Security. Yeah, we’re definitely going to have to have to talk about that at some point. Not today, but, offline anyway. Yeah. Give us give us your background.
00:00:43:28 – 00:00:49:18
Rod
Although I just stole some of it. talk about, you know, where you came from and and, why, you know, bring us current.
00:00:49:19 – 00:01:12:05
Philip
Yeah. So, I was in federal law enforcement for 14 years. about 11 years ago. My boss at the time, gave me the book Rich That Poor Dad. And, he was an investor in small multifamily real estate. So he got me into investing for cash flow. So, I did that, for a few years, bought some small multifamily, traded up a little bit.
00:01:12:05 – 00:01:12:24
Rod
Where at in New.
00:01:12:24 – 00:01:14:01
Philip
York, new Jersey.
00:01:14:01 – 00:01:15:12
Rod
New Jersey, new Jersey.
00:01:15:14 – 00:01:27:09
Philip
And then, I came across Joel Owens on Biggerpockets. and he helped me transition from residential to triple net lease investing. then I started working for him full time.
00:01:27:11 – 00:01:48:22
Rod
Well, that was very quick. So you you you bought some plexus, you had an eight unit building, and it says you also invested as a limited partner in some syndications as well. Were these multifamily syndication multifamily? Okay. And now you work with Joel Owens. I don’t know him, but, obviously you like him or you wouldn’t be working for him, so it says here you actually, he actually helped you.
00:01:48:22 – 00:01:51:26
Rod
1031 some of your residential stuff into triple net.
00:01:51:27 – 00:01:52:21
Philip
Yeah. So.
00:01:52:21 – 00:01:58:27
Rod
So why do you like triple net? First of all, describe what triple net is for those that don’t know what that means. Start there.
00:01:58:29 – 00:02:08:06
Philip
So triple net is it’s a lease structure where the tenant is responsible for, the taxes, the maintenance and the insurance.
00:02:08:06 – 00:02:08:29
Rod
Pretty much everything.
00:02:08:29 – 00:02:16:10
Philip
Everything, you know, property level maintenance and everything. And the, the rental payments are net to the landlord, correct?
00:02:16:11 – 00:02:19:06
Rod
I mean, the only thing paid after that is, is a mortgage.
00:02:19:06 – 00:02:19:18
Philip
If you have.
00:02:19:25 – 00:02:36:19
Rod
Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, I actually met a billionaire that did it in triple net. this is a lifetime ago, but, yeah, I remember he, I think he bought a lot of assets. And one of the crisis is like the savings and loan crisis or something like that. And so, so why do you like triple net?
00:02:36:22 – 00:03:04:21
Philip
So for me, at the time, I was trying to get out of my career in law enforcement, to work in real estate full time. So owning small multifamily, it was difficult for me to scale. and the income was just too volatile. you know, so I was looking for something that I could buy and just model out that cash flow, for, you know, the lease term backed by an investment grade tenant.
00:03:04:21 – 00:03:23:09
Rod
Sure. Small multifamily, you’re going to have some volatility because you know, if you’ve only got a duplex or something and one unit is empty or 50% vacant, you know, the world that I live in, you know, in the 100 plus units, you know, you can you’re not going to be as volatile because, you know, you can have quite a bit of vacancy and still be able to cover your nut and have cash flow.
00:03:23:10 – 00:03:36:16
Rod
Yeah. by the way, thank you for your service as a New York, Marshall, I you know, we’re right at that point where that poor guy got killed recently. That was a big deal in the news. Yeah. What was his name?
00:03:36:18 – 00:03:37:02
Philip
Diller.
00:03:37:03 – 00:03:51:03
Rod
Diller? That’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that literally is happening right now. I don’t know when this episode of there, but that’s been real traumatic. So you like the stability factor around triple net leasing. And that was a real factor for you to end up leaving your job.
00:03:51:03 – 00:04:04:15
Philip
Correct. Absolutely. Yeah. So that was the the income stability and the, business to business relationship. You know, I, you know, as you know, I had I owned some properties in some really bad neighborhoods.
00:04:04:15 – 00:04:05:19
Rod
So in Jersey.
00:04:05:19 – 00:04:07:18
Philip
In Jersey, so.
00:04:07:21 – 00:04:12:21
Rod
We won’t even talk about the politics and the crap you have to deal with up there over and above that. But yeah.
00:04:12:22 – 00:04:24:09
Philip
I mean, besides that. Right. the, the dealing with tenants is was very difficult with that demographic. Right. So, dealing with businesses has, has it’s just an asset class I enjoy.
00:04:24:10 – 00:04:49:16
Rod
Well, it’s a hell of a lot easier. Sure. You know, you’re dealing with logical, educated, you know, typically more financially secure people than than in a, you know, a C minus D class multifamily. Sure. So you you heard Joel on Biggerpockets, right. Cool. and, tell me how you ended up going to work for him, because I think what I read here, it’s it’d be helpful for other people to hear that.
00:04:49:16 – 00:05:06:25
Philip
Yeah. So, I started I was a client of his, obviously. And then, you know, after talking to him and seeing what he was doing and what he had going on, I knew I wanted to be involved with him and what he was doing. so I offered to work for him for free for about four months.
00:05:06:25 – 00:05:16:16
Philip
Five months. and I said, you know, let me work for you, see if it works out. and then if it turns into a full time thing, great. If not, you know, that’s okay too.
00:05:16:17 – 00:05:19:01
Rod
Were you still doing your law enforcement career?
00:05:19:06 – 00:05:24:06
Philip
I was, so I had a baby at the time, and they allowed us 12 weeks even for for the.
00:05:24:09 – 00:05:27:20
Rod
Husband who did it while the baby. Okay. Yeah. So.
00:05:27:22 – 00:05:32:10
Philip
I dedicated all my time working for him during that time, and, well, he offered me a full time position.
00:05:32:10 – 00:05:37:29
Rod
So what did the boss think about you? given up your law enforcement career to go do this full time?
00:05:37:29 – 00:05:39:10
Philip
Everybody told me I was crazy.
00:05:39:10 – 00:05:42:14
Rod
No, I don’t I don’t mean I don’t mean your work, boss. I mean your home boss.
00:05:42:14 – 00:05:45:06
Philip
Oh, you know, she’s very supportive. Really? Yeah, very.
00:05:45:06 – 00:05:47:00
Rod
And a lot of fear associated with it.
00:05:47:03 – 00:06:06:19
Philip
I mean, maybe a little bit. But she had a lot of faith in me, and, you know, you had said something a while ago on your podcast about, one of the biggest regrets you had was playing with your kids when they were young and feeling distracted and that resonated with me because I felt the same way.
00:06:06:19 – 00:06:17:27
Philip
But about my job, I thought that I there was something else I should be doing, and I would think about that a lot when I was playing with them. And so that really helped me push through to, to make that change interesting.
00:06:18:01 – 00:06:32:05
Rod
Okay. Yeah. Because I was going to slam you for leaving your kids the first four months their life. I was going to give you some shit about that. But you you beat me to it. So. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a big deal for me because I have a lot of regret around that. They say I’m a great dad, but I still have a lot of regret.
00:06:32:07 – 00:06:36:17
Rod
So you suffered too? A little bit of my podcast previously I heard many years.
00:06:36:19 – 00:06:40:01
Philip
Daily basis. Really? Yeah.
00:06:40:03 – 00:06:44:11
Rod
So then why not multifamily? For God’s sakes, man, I’m just kidding it.
00:06:44:18 – 00:06:57:20
Philip
No, no, I started in multifamily. Right? So, I just, you know, the issues that I had and the the places where I can make the numbers work, we’re not places I want it to be. Yeah, right. Yeah. And, no.
00:06:57:20 – 00:07:11:25
Rod
I get it. But obviously I was not. I, you know, just giving a shit. So. So the people at your law enforcement career. Because, you know, that whole mindset is make it to 20, right. Make it to 20, get that incredible retirement, medical, all that stuff, which is great. Yeah. But,
00:07:11:27 – 00:07:22:11
Philip
Yeah, not for me. I, I, I was after something a little bit more, you know, and I wanted to spend, I want to spend my time doing something that I really like to do. Yeah. You know.
00:07:22:13 – 00:07:41:18
Rod
That’s that’s that’s the name of the game, man. When you love what you do, work is play, right? You never work another day in your life, right? And, and you’re loving what you’re doing. So. So talk about some of the nuances around triple net. Yeah. I asked you before we started recording where you’re buying, if you have a geographical footprint, you said basically the whole United States, but you like to stay south.
00:07:41:18 – 00:07:53:00
Rod
80 million baby boomers getting old and getting cold, right? Yeah. So, what, what are some other parameters that you, you guys look for when you’re looking for a, you know, potential triple net asset?
00:07:53:01 – 00:08:00:06
Philip
Yeah. So we have two areas of focus. We have, a value add, and then we have a core plus. Okay. So on the value add, by the way.
00:08:00:06 – 00:08:20:19
Rod
Hold on. So, so I’m sorry to interrupt. So it’s it’s the exact same thing in multifamily guys. Okay. So value add in multifamily obviously as you buy an asset you inc you fix it up, you improve the rents, decrease expenses, and you, exponentially improve the value core plus is something that’s very stable. We just banking on rent appreciation okay.
00:08:20:19 – 00:08:26:12
Rod
It’s the same in multifamily. I just wanted to clarify that for those that didn’t know what that meant. So value add talk about value add and triple net.
00:08:26:12 – 00:08:33:24
Philip
Yeah. So value add. we target vacant or soon to be vacant retail properties.
00:08:33:26 – 00:08:40:01
Rod
so you got a corner and you got, a Walgreens is going out or a CVS is going out, but. Right, right.
00:08:40:06 – 00:08:52:23
Philip
So like something like that could be something like that. And, what we do is we, we buy it. but the whole, the whole focus on both those strategies is the underlying real estate. So it all comes down to underlying real estate first. Always.
00:08:52:23 – 00:08:54:04
Rod
What do you mean by that?
00:08:54:07 – 00:09:17:13
Philip
traffic counts, five mile demographics, sight lines, access to the property. layout of the parcel. It all has to be desirable to, creditworthy tenants. That’s really what we’re targeting. Okay. which is why we stay in warm belt states, because that’s that’s really where the the the biggest, rings of growth are. You know, we’ll look at coal belt states, but, those pockets of growth tend to be much smaller.
00:09:17:15 – 00:09:23:17
Philip
so okay. so we’ll look at for value add, that’s what we’ll look at. and then.
00:09:23:20 – 00:09:39:01
Rod
so you have a whole checklist of, of, of items like you just rattled off. Exactly. You want to see certain traffic counts in front of that asset. You want to see that, that that it’s visible from the road. You’re talking sight lines. Yeah. Access. You know, if there’s a meeting in the middle and people can’t turn into it, that’s an issue.
00:09:39:03 – 00:09:45:26
Rod
Exactly that. Do you take a look at, morning and evening traffic component of a location? Okay.
00:09:45:26 – 00:09:49:03
Philip
So if we want to put a coffee user, for example, we want to be on the mornings.
00:09:49:03 – 00:09:57:25
Rod
Morningside. Right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. and, other sizing parameters that you like to see.
00:09:57:29 – 00:10:16:06
Philip
It just depends. I mean, sometimes, you know, if there’s an older Walgreens, for example, it’s 15,000ft². sometimes that’s that can be difficult to backfill. Right. So we’ll have to buy that, for the dirt value. So if we can backfill the actual building. Great. That’s just more upside to us. But if not we can scrape it ground, sit or do a build to see.
00:10:16:09 – 00:10:20:22
Rod
Okay, okay, okay. Do you look at income demographics when you’re looking at it. Yeah.
00:10:20:28 – 00:10:31:23
Philip
Yeah, absolutely. So we look at all those five mile demographics okay. You know, so we want to be above you know traffic counts really want to be minimum 25,000 per day. Per day.
00:10:31:25 – 00:10:45:25
Rod
now, you know, one of the things that I tell my students is I want to see a bunch of national retailers, I don’t want to see Bob’s Burgers and Sushi, you know, or pawn shop, liquor store, strip club, you know, at the, at the main intersection. I want to see, you know, national retailers. You feel the same way.
00:10:45:25 – 00:10:49:22
Philip
I am. Absolutely. And and they a lot of these national retailers put a lot of time and effort.
00:10:49:23 – 00:10:50:24
Rod
Money into their demographics.
00:10:50:24 – 00:10:52:21
Philip
Their demographics. So they’re there for a reason.
00:10:52:21 – 00:11:12:12
Rod
That’s right. Well, that’s the reason, guys. You know, because, you know, like a Publix or a Kroger, you know, these, these big, big retailers, they spend a lot of money checking out a demographic before they spend millions of dollars throwing a store up, you know, big box. So that’s a big deal. so what markets are you in now?
00:11:12:14 – 00:11:23:23
Philip
we’re really all over the place. where, Indiana, won a contract on, asset in, Texas. we’re in Ohio.
00:11:23:25 – 00:11:26:07
Rod
I’m in all three of those as well. Yeah. Good state.
00:11:26:10 – 00:11:28:22
Philip
Yeah. So it just really we’re I’m very opposite.
00:11:28:24 – 00:12:04:11
Rod
That was in Ohio last week with Georgia the week before. I’m taking over a bunch of properties. Oh yeah. Yeah. So my, my my asset managers in Texas today Houston right. The Houston I have a Houston asset. I have several in Dallas, San Antonio several there. So yeah. No, we like Texas a lot. so walk me through the decision to quit a stabilized, fairly long term role in the government and let all that retirement income go to go do this, walk me through that decision process.
00:12:04:11 – 00:12:06:01
Rod
Yeah.
00:12:06:03 – 00:12:16:10
Philip
you know, once I reached a point where my monthly cash flow could sustain my lifestyle.
00:12:16:11 – 00:12:17:23
Rod
Yeah.
00:12:17:25 – 00:12:39:21
Philip
you know, it was still, you know, still nerve wracking, you know, but, it was just listening to these podcasts, you know, this one and ones like this, when you when you hear people every single day do it, do it. Yeah. Right. And enjoy what they’re doing, it hit a point where I couldn’t keep going, I couldn’t I had to stop.
00:12:39:21 – 00:12:41:10
Rod
And you have two kids. You got one on the way?
00:12:41:10 – 00:12:44:20
Philip
Yes, I have two kids, one on the way down. About a month and a half. Wow.
00:12:44:21 – 00:12:46:23
Rod
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Get your hands full.
00:12:46:26 – 00:12:47:24
Philip
Yeah.
00:12:47:26 – 00:12:52:20
Rod
And. And how did that play into this decision?
00:12:52:22 – 00:13:02:23
Philip
You know, I did it for them naturally, you know, because it gave me more time to be with them. Yeah. You know, my wife, my two kids. Yeah. and it goes back to what you would said.
00:13:02:25 – 00:13:04:21
Rod
Are you still up in new Jersey or.
00:13:04:22 – 00:13:08:07
Philip
I still live in new Jersey. I’m trying to get my wife to move to Florida. Oh, yeah? Yeah, that’d be great.
00:13:08:07 – 00:13:24:23
Rod
Good luck with that. Yeah. She. Is she Italian or, she’s Polish. Polish. Okay. All right, all right. Well, it’s a shame you didn’t bring her with where I would have given her the hard court press. I could be a poster child for the Florida Chamber of Commerce. I love what you’re so freaking much. Yeah. So, yeah, like.
00:13:24:23 – 00:13:42:09
Rod
Like like DeSantis just passed that squatter bill. You guys got this squatter freaking debacle, by the way. Remind me I want to do a video on that squatter thing. maybe before you leave today. That’s just mind numbing. They they arrested some woman for changing the locks on her own. Freaking house. Are you kidding me?
00:13:42:09 – 00:13:45:05
Philip
Yeah. That’s amazing that that that’s controversial, you know, like that.
00:13:45:05 – 00:14:01:05
Rod
Yeah. I mean, what? Don’t get me started. Oh, my God, you can’t fix some of the stupidity going on in this country right now. So. So, so, you knows multiple states. Do you like corners? Do you do you do even. Does it have to be a corner?
00:14:01:05 – 00:14:11:15
Philip
It doesn’t have to be a corner. Oh, no. It’s, you know, really, it’s, the basis we’re getting into the property, you know? So that’s our downside protection is, you know, we make hundreds of offers just to go on a contract.
00:14:11:15 – 00:14:14:10
Rod
Oh, do you really? Oh, yeah. So you throw a lot of offers out ton of offers.
00:14:14:10 – 00:14:32:02
Philip
Okay. Yeah. Because, we just we have to be into it at a low enough basis where because we have this 90 day review period anytime we buy a vacant property. So we decide are we going to we take feedback from potential tenants on the rent per square foot. You know, they think it’s too hot, too high. Do they not like it X, Y and z, whatever the reasons.
00:14:32:04 – 00:14:37:15
Philip
So we either want to continue to try and lease it or sell it to an end user. because sometimes.
00:14:37:15 – 00:14:38:24
Rod
We do, sometimes we just flip them.
00:14:39:01 – 00:14:42:15
Philip
Sometimes we just flip them, okay. And it all comes down to the, to our basis.
00:14:42:15 – 00:14:49:18
Rod
Right. What, you pay for it. Yeah. Well that’s interesting that you make a ton of offers. Does that irritate brokers or.
00:14:49:20 – 00:14:54:00
Philip
Sometimes yes sometimes no. Okay. We just tell them, you know what we’re doing, why we’re doing it.
00:14:54:00 – 00:15:13:28
Rod
This is how come it works at this number. Right. And you know, in your business it’s pretty much just the spread, right? Because, you know, whatever your debt costs and whatever you’re into it for, you know, the margins aren’t as as big potentially as, as in multifamily, like a multifamily value add. but but it could be on a value add where you’ve got an empty building for sure.
00:15:13:28 – 00:15:18:05
Philip
But you don’t take on any debt for core or the value at all. You don’t know.
00:15:18:06 – 00:15:18:28
Rod
Oh, interesting.
00:15:18:28 – 00:15:19:21
Philip
Yeah. Because the.
00:15:19:21 – 00:15:22:23
Rod
Value do it all with with in syndications with.
00:15:22:25 – 00:15:23:12
Philip
So people.
00:15:23:12 – 00:15:43:14
Rod
Are raising the money cash. Correct. So it’s all, it’s all money raised. Yeah. That’s, that’s a, that’s a safe way to do it. you know, obviously there’s a risk. Potential risk. And the returns are better when you’re leveraging debt. But, that’s a very conservative way to do it. Yeah. Do you back in debt after you’ve purchased it?
00:15:43:14 – 00:16:04:13
Philip
If it makes sense to, if we can pull out a large chunk of capital afterwards. Sure. Okay. We’ll consider that. But the real opportunity in net properties with investment grade tenants is really in the 5 million plus range, because that’s where cap rates have expanded the most, because most buyers, three quarters of the buyers, over 5 million are going to be taking on debt.
00:16:04:13 – 00:16:12:20
Philip
So as cap rates have to move if they want to sell these properties. So that’s where we see an opportunity to capture a larger yield by just coming in cash.
00:16:12:23 – 00:16:26:28
Rod
Interesting, interesting. so you do, you syndicate, core plus where you’ve got to significant tenant. What do you look for in a tenant?
00:16:27:00 – 00:16:51:24
Philip
Well, really, we look at the most important thing for us is location and underlying dirt, because we we will purchase, a really great piece of real estate with a not so great tenant if they’re paying significantly below market rent, because that way there’s there’s two ways we win there. If we purchase the property at a high cap rate and they stay, we just keep capturing, capturing that higher yield.
00:16:51:27 – 00:17:00:26
Philip
If they decide to leave, we can backfill that space at a higher rent per square foot and still be profitable after high costs and leasing commissions and attorney.
00:17:00:26 – 00:17:14:28
Rod
Tenant improvements is tie guys. A lot of times you’ll get a new tenant and the landlord makes improvements. It all gets factored into what the rent costs. But, that’s very common in commercial is, is you’ll have tenant improvements that the landlord covers.
00:17:15:03 – 00:17:24:25
Philip
That was also on the core plus side. Okay. Yeah. We’ll we’ll buy a tenant that doesn’t have decorated credit. if it’s a great location and the markets are.
00:17:24:28 – 00:17:27:18
Rod
But back to my question. What do you look at in the tenant.
00:17:27:25 – 00:17:49:16
Philip
If we want to underwrite the, the credit to the tenant. Yeah, we we’re going to look at, you know, how many locations do they have where credit rating are they publicly traded? and then who’s guaranteeing the lease? Right. So we will we’re a contract on a medical property where, it’s investment grade. but sometimes we’ll look at ones where it’s extremely high net worth doctor who’s backing the lease.
00:17:49:16 – 00:17:54:28
Rod
So I see, I see. Okay, so you’ll do single tenant medical as well then. Yeah okay. I didn’t think about that.
00:17:55:00 – 00:17:55:22
Philip
We like that care.
00:17:55:25 – 00:18:15:08
Rod
Urgent care, things like that. Yeah I forgot about that. Yeah that’s single tenant as well. And a lot of doctors want to own the buildings. You know, I went to a GI doctor and he was bragging that he owned the building. Where where they violated me. Right. Anyway, yeah. but, yeah, a lot of doctors, a lot of doctors like that.
00:18:15:08 – 00:18:36:26
Rod
So, yeah, I could see that being real viable. And of course, they’ve got high net worth and liquidity and everything else. So, you know, you know, I’ve got a lot of aspiring multifamily investors that listen to this show. Like you, when you first got started years ago, talk to them, talk about getting started, talk about, you know, taking that first step, make some suggestions, just some thoughts that from your perspective.
00:18:36:27 – 00:18:50:17
Philip
Yeah. you know, I would say. Getting started, you know, doing your first deal is really, the catalyst for, for getting that, you know.
00:18:50:19 – 00:18:51:16
Rod
Doesn’t matter how big it is.
00:18:51:22 – 00:19:08:09
Philip
It doesn’t matter how big it is. It’s just any way you can get started. I would get started. you know, there’s a lot of great things you can do. you know, FHA loans on a on a on a two family, but, it’s really getting that first deal under your belt and, and getting around people who are doing what you want to do.
00:19:08:11 – 00:19:11:20
Rod
That’s a critical piece. Yeah, that’s. How do you do that?
00:19:11:23 – 00:19:12:05
Philip
well.
00:19:12:05 – 00:19:15:12
Rod
I go to meet ups or real estate investor club meetings or just.
00:19:15:12 – 00:19:30:03
Philip
I, I have yeah, I reach out to people, but honestly podcast for me because I was in my car for so long. Right. Sometimes we did surveillance for ten hours. I would listen to ten hours of podcasts, and it was almost like, you know, I’m just listening to people, sure, who are who are doing what I wanted to do.
00:19:30:05 – 00:19:50:08
Rod
Right? Right. Yeah. Me too. I’ve got a three hour drive to Orlando tomorrow, and I’ll be listening to podcasts the whole way. Joe Rogan, though I listen to the political stuff, just don’t like me up and keep me engaged. Lights my freaking fire, let me tell you. So, so. Just get started. Is is is your advice?
00:19:50:08 – 00:19:51:04
Philip
I would say get started.
00:19:51:04 – 00:20:13:05
Rod
Consume as much information as you can get around people that are doing it. You know, I brag about my warrior group. They now want upwards of 200,000 units that we know of. And, and it’s big. And most of those deals are done between warriors because, it really is a team sport. And like you, you teamed up with a guy that’s an expert in it and, very smart, by the way, to work.
00:20:13:05 – 00:20:29:10
Rod
Offer to work for him for free. I get that offer all the time, too, but it’s. I just that’s. I wanted you to share that because it’s really smart. There’s some people that can use the help, and we’ll take you up on it, and it got you in the door. so that was a really smart move. and so get started.
00:20:29:12 – 00:20:38:10
Rod
how did you push through any fear? I know you don’t have any fear. You’re freaking cop. But how’d you push through it? Just. If you did, how did you push through it?
00:20:38:12 – 00:20:50:17
Philip
You know, wanting to pursue what I really wanted to do. Yeah. Was, was enough of a burning desire. Yeah. To to make that leap. Honestly, that was it.
00:20:50:20 – 00:21:12:23
Rod
Because I’ll tell you, you know, people in law enforcement and and quasi governmental jobs like that, it’s a pretty heavy employee mindset. Stick it out for the 20 years, then get your retirement and then go fishing into the sunset and, and, and that’s tough. It’s tough to walk away from that. That’s why I was asking. Yeah. So you really knew you had had to do something?
00:21:12:23 – 00:21:13:21
Philip
I had to do something else.
00:21:13:21 – 00:21:17:16
Rod
And all your coworkers and bosses were like, are you out of your freaking mind?
00:21:17:16 – 00:21:21:26
Philip
I stopped bringing it up. I didn’t talk to them. Really? Didn’t I only talk to people who had.
00:21:21:26 – 00:21:22:23
Rod
The same mindset and.
00:21:22:23 – 00:21:26:23
Philip
Who were doing what I wanted to do, right? Right, right. That’s the only. That’s the only people. You should take it down. Yeah.
00:21:26:23 – 00:21:45:24
Rod
Well, that’s now that is a really important piece because you’re going to get a lot of naysayers in your life and you’ve got to, you know, when you’ve got that dream, it’s a fragile thread. And if you share it with the wrong person, they can break that thread. And so it’s critical that you’re around people that aren’t afraid of what you’ve got going on that that don’t have their own limiting beliefs around being a success.
00:21:45:24 – 00:22:05:22
Rod
And I, I get hate every single fucking day from, from people about, you know, oh, you’re gouging tenants and you’re doing this and I don’t have the money to do anything and blah, blah, blah. They’ve got all these stories they tell themselves and you get around people like. And sometimes it’s family. you know, love your family, but choose your freaking peers who you allow to, you know, influence you.
00:22:05:22 – 00:22:11:07
Rod
Right? And so you actually had to shut it down. Yeah. Some of these guys I can absolutely see that. That makes sense. Yeah.
00:22:11:07 – 00:22:18:00
Philip
And the same people that were telling me not to buy the two family, I’m an idiot. Don’t do that. Are the same people say, man, I was really smart that you did that years later.
00:22:18:00 – 00:22:39:23
Rod
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s how it works. That. Yeah, that’s how it works. And it’s their own fear. Like I said, their own fear, their limiting beliefs. They don’t feel like they’re enough smart enough. For me, it wasn’t analytical enough. I didn’t you know everybody’s got these things. There’s a reason the acronym for Belief Systems is B.S. is because 99% of them are B.S., but people believe them, and you can’t allow that you know, someone else’s sphere to influence you.
00:22:39:23 – 00:22:41:03
Rod
That’s where it gets dangerous.
00:22:41:06 – 00:22:48:21
Philip
And I had a hard time with that for a while. Yeah, I had a hard time with listening to people and, you know, they rage and I stay, you know, I would waffle on a little bit.
00:22:48:23 – 00:22:55:01
Rod
So you’re all of your training has been through podcasts or any other, any other things that you did educate yourself.
00:22:55:03 – 00:22:57:28
Philip
I mean, podcasts and connecting with Joel. I mean, I’ve been I’ve been talking.
00:22:57:28 – 00:22:59:16
Rod
So you just connected. It was connection.
00:22:59:16 – 00:23:15:18
Philip
Connect. And I would follow up with him, talk to him, you know, because I was selling off some residential properties and buying that lease, he would start sharing what he was looking at and how he was doing it and how he would analyze something. And I just it just set this fire for me nice. And I knew that he was the one, you know, I think he’s for you.
00:23:15:19 – 00:23:17:11
Philip
Yeah. He’s the best one in this asset class.
00:23:17:11 – 00:23:35:11
Rod
Yeah. You know, I, I, you know, that’s that’s so important to get around people that, you know, if you’re playing tennis, do you want to play somebody better than you or worse than you? Right. You want to, you know, you want to be around Pete. You know, I started a mastermind. It’s some of the top syndicators on the planet.
00:23:35:13 – 00:23:49:16
Rod
it was a play. About 30, 40 billion in assets in it. I’ve kind of slowed it down. I’ve been too busy. But, you know, I want to be around people that thought what I thought was hard was easy. Right? And, you know, there’s a clue in that guy’s. Okay, get around people that that are doing what you want to do.
00:23:49:16 – 00:24:14:16
Rod
And however you can make that happen. And they and a rising tide lifts all ships just by being around them to us, Moses, you’ll get better. Period. You know, you’ll learn some of the nomenclature, some of the little, you know, verbiage that you would know if you weren’t around these people. So it’s super, super important. do you think there’s a particular type of person that does better in this real estate game than another?
00:24:14:16 – 00:24:21:06
Rod
Do you, you know, like, like, would you consider yourself more outgoing or more analytical? Let me ask that question.
00:24:21:06 – 00:24:34:03
Philip
You know, that’s a good question. I would, I would I think I’m more analytical. Are you. Yeah, okay, I do, I think I’m more analytical, but, I think there’s a spot for, for both those people. Right. I think I think you need both. I mean, Joel.
00:24:34:05 – 00:24:35:12
Rod
I promise you, you need both.
00:24:35:12 – 00:24:54:27
Philip
Yeah. And Joel is super analytical, right? I mean, he can be. He speed read through the least you can tell you everything you need to know about this league. So, you know, I, I’m, I’m probably a little more forward facing, you know, talking to investors and brokers. so in, in that for the company, Joel is definitely the.
00:24:54:29 – 00:25:19:10
Rod
The analytical person. Yeah. So yeah, my my partners are super analytical. They’ve written the software or my people on my, CRA equity capital team, CRA capital team. you know, which is why we’ve only bought two assets in the last year and a half because we’ve been so frickin picky and conservative. but, so as you were, you know, you started in the multifamily, small multifamily.
00:25:19:10 – 00:25:26:12
Rod
Talk about any epiphanies you had, talk about any moments. You’re like, okay, I get it now. Okay. What? Talk about that.
00:25:26:14 – 00:25:35:06
Philip
Well, one of them was, so I had multiple shootings at this building. Fires? some joke about.
00:25:35:06 – 00:25:38:01
Rod
A single tenant building or. No, this was a multifamily.
00:25:38:03 – 00:25:56:08
Philip
Yeah. Gotcha. So this and I didn’t like going to the property. I felt unsafe going on the property. I didn’t want to be there. And once I forgot where I heard it. But, you know, you want to own property where people want to be right? And that was a light bulb moment because nobody wanted to be here.
00:25:56:08 – 00:26:06:03
Philip
The tenants didn’t want to be there. They had to be there. that was huge for me. That was good. You know, location is really, I overlook that completely and was just focused on these super high cap rates.
00:26:06:03 – 00:26:20:15
Rod
Yeah. They say there’s three things that that, real estate hinges on. And those three are all the same word location. Right? Yeah. so what’s your favorite part of what you’re doing now? what’s your least favorite? The start with the least favorite.
00:26:20:17 – 00:26:25:28
Philip
My least favorite thing. you know, I want a.
00:26:25:28 – 00:26:28:00
Rod
Better be travel away from your kids.
00:26:28:03 – 00:26:44:04
Philip
You know, I we don’t travel as much. Oh, you know, you know, so we, we have engineers that go out and do property inspection and everything, but, you know, that’s actually one of the great things is that I’m not actually around my kids. That’s nice. But, you know, I’m I’m looking to grow faster and faster for the company.
00:26:44:04 – 00:26:52:08
Philip
Right. For Joel. Right. So I want so that’s I want to move faster and faster, but, sometimes I need to slow down, you know.
00:26:52:10 – 00:27:08:11
Rod
You can grow too fast. That’s the problem with my past partner I’m dealing with right now. Too fast. And so you can absolutely grow too fast right. So we’re doing you can implode I’ve got I’ve got a warrior. I had to have a sit down with about a month ago. He’s got all these assets under contract. He reassured me he’s okay.
00:27:08:11 – 00:27:11:03
Rod
But you can’t absolutely implode by going too fast.
00:27:11:03 – 00:27:14:03
Philip
Yeah. So he. So Joel slows me down a little bit. Doesn’t that we good.
00:27:14:03 – 00:27:20:23
Rod
It’s good to have that back. It’s good to have you know that give and take in that push pull. You know in a partnership. In a relationship.
00:27:21:00 – 00:27:24:01
Philip
Yeah. well I work for Joel Ferguson.
00:27:24:03 – 00:27:35:28
Rod
Yeah. You know, I’m sure he considers you a partner, whether you work for him or not, but, yes, if he’s a good leader, he does. Yeah, I’m sure he is. Yes. So. So, that’s the challenging. What’s the what’s the what part do you love the most about? What you’re doing?
00:27:36:01 – 00:27:54:18
Philip
There’s so many things, honestly. You, you know, just, I would say the relationships that I get to build, you know, the people I get to meet, you know, whether it’s brokers, investors just talking to people, hearing their stories, how they did things, how they created wealth. yeah. I love hearing that. Yeah. You know.
00:27:54:20 – 00:28:09:25
Rod
So, so, I know you, you work, you know, in this situation, you’re not technically a partner yet, but talk about the team that’s made up in in your, in this company. Talk about what what what what are the what are the pieces of that team. Sure.
00:28:09:25 – 00:28:22:15
Philip
So we run pretty lean. so there’s Joel. and then I do acquisitions for Joel, and, you know, help run the syndication, talking to the partners. And then he has a marketing guy, Johnny. So he’s, actually.
00:28:22:21 – 00:28:24:03
Rod
Marketing, like, social media and a.
00:28:24:04 – 00:28:35:04
Philip
Social media website. a lot of leads coming in, but he’s also getting into the brokerage side of things. So I think Joel’s actually going to start bringing him in for, you know, acquisitions and different stuff on on the equity side.
00:28:35:07 – 00:28:36:01
Rod
and that’s pretty much it.
00:28:36:02 – 00:28:37:09
Philip
That’s that’s pretty much it. Yeah.
00:28:37:10 – 00:28:39:05
Rod
How about on the accounting? How do you handle the accounting?
00:28:39:10 – 00:28:41:02
Philip
we have our CPA is the CPA.
00:28:41:08 – 00:28:44:22
Rod
Was that got it. I mean, you’ve only been doing this, what, a year now?
00:28:44:25 – 00:28:45:23
Philip
full time? Yeah. Full time.
00:28:45:23 – 00:28:59:10
Rod
Yeah. You talk about, a war story, in the triple net side of things where you got your ass handed to you, or, you know, a setback, a setback? Yes. You know something you missed something or something went wrong or something, anything come to mind.
00:28:59:10 – 00:29:07:24
Philip
So, thankfully, we haven’t had any huge seminars, but, I would say, you know, it’s funny because it’s probably.
00:29:07:24 – 00:29:09:03
Rod
No, you listen to my podcast.
00:29:09:03 – 00:29:26:00
Philip
Yeah. Yeah. I would say honestly, this is actually kind of a win and a loss, but, we are we we bought a property, former, QSR. What’s that? quick service restaurant. So any fast food? Okay. It’s vacant.
00:29:26:03 – 00:29:29:25
Rod
QSR. I’ve never heard that before. So former Burger King, McDonald’s, whatever.
00:29:29:25 – 00:29:45:06
Philip
Exactly. Okay. And so, we we’re planning to get it on the market and leased up. we had a projected rent per square foot, but we knew that if we didn’t get the rent per square foot that we wanted, that it was going to be worth a certain amount, so that we could flip it and get out of it profitably.
00:29:45:06 – 00:29:47:04
Philip
Got it. But we really thought, you know, we.
00:29:47:08 – 00:29:48:04
Rod
You thought you’d lease it.
00:29:48:05 – 00:29:52:07
Philip
We thought we release it and we did not. The market turned a little bit. It was challenging what.
00:29:52:08 – 00:29:53:04
Rod
What market was and.
00:29:53:04 – 00:29:57:10
Philip
Louisiana okay. We’re in Louisiana, a smaller market. so this was in Winnsboro.
00:29:57:11 – 00:29:59:18
Rod
Okay. What’s that near?
00:29:59:21 – 00:30:00:27
Philip
so it’s.
00:30:00:29 – 00:30:01:10
Rod
You.
00:30:01:13 – 00:30:03:10
Philip
Know, Monroe, I, I.
00:30:03:10 – 00:30:08:29
Rod
Hear about my story. I heard about, Good. There’s something about Louisiana fly over Shreveport airspace. All right. Continue. Sorry.
00:30:09:01 – 00:30:30:23
Philip
No, no, no. And, so we actually, we’re trying to get at least up here in negotiations for a while. tenants wanted too much. so we ended up selling it to another national QSR. for, for more than we had originally anticipated. So it wasn’t the home run that we wanted, right? You know, was in a smaller market than we would buy now.
00:30:30:26 – 00:30:32:14
Philip
but it was a win because we, we were.
00:30:32:14 – 00:30:33:13
Rod
Able to sell it, that.
00:30:33:13 – 00:30:39:05
Philip
We analyze the downside risk. yeah. You know, properly. So so that was.
00:30:39:05 – 00:30:58:17
Rod
No, that’s that’s not that’s not a, that’s not a huge war story, but, that’s a that’s a lesson. Okay. I like to ask this question a lot, you know, knowing what you know now, I mean, it’s not like you’re long a tooth and old and gray, but would you done anything differently in this real estate career that you’re in this path that you’re on right now?
00:30:58:17 – 00:31:04:08
Rod
If you could go tell a ten year old self something, what might you do differently? If anything, I.
00:31:04:08 – 00:31:29:29
Philip
Would, I would go into, real estate as as quickly as I could, honestly. probably on the leasing side, leasing, because that’s where you, you know, you can learn a lot, you can learn a lot, and you develop those tenant relationships. So, there’s other operators out there that started leasing. Aaron Zucker is one of them, and he he started leasing, and he has his own firm now.
00:31:29:29 – 00:31:43:07
Philip
And you could see the marriage of it was perfect. Killing it, killing it because he’s, he, you know, so if I could go back and do it, that’s exactly what I would have done. I wasted so much time in law enforcement because I wasn’t learning anything that I really wanted to do long term.
00:31:43:10 – 00:32:03:19
Rod
Yeah. And you, when you’re comfortable, it’s kind of hard to make that move. Exactly. Those of you listening that are comfortable, quote unquote. just recognize that nothing grows in the frickin comfort zone. Okay. you got to get outside of comfort to create that magnificent life of your dreams. You got to get just a little bit uncomfortable.
00:32:03:21 – 00:32:20:17
Rod
Is there a, you know, I know you you got acclimated to rich dad. Poor dad. The whole freaking world got that one. you know, which is pivotal. In fact, all of his books are fantastic, in my opinion. But are there any other books that you’ve enjoyed in this journey of yours that have helped you, you know, get more knowledgeable?
00:32:20:19 – 00:32:26:03
Philip
Yeah. So I recently read a book called The Obstacles Away. Oh my holiday. Great book. Really, really great book.
00:32:26:04 – 00:32:28:25
Rod
I saw you looking at my library down. I did, I got a couple of books.
00:32:28:25 – 00:32:31:17
Philip
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:32:31:19 – 00:32:38:07
Rod
Let me ask you this. Everybody has a definition of success. What’s your definition of success?
00:32:38:09 – 00:32:52:16
Philip
Being excited about what you’re doing every day. Oh, that’s a great, you know, really? not dreading going to work. Not, tomorrow’s Monday. you know, when every day is the same to me. That is the pinnacle of success.
00:32:52:16 – 00:33:05:10
Rod
Oh, I love that man. What a great answer. Is there a dark time in your journey? Even before real estate, that you’d be willing to share? If you feel like it might add some value?
00:33:05:12 – 00:33:25:16
Philip
Yeah. I mean, I, I breezed over the decision to leave the government and go into, you know, real estate full time, but that that was very, very difficult when I put in my resignation, just knowing that that guaranteed income stream from the government, you know, with a pension, was, was gone and there was really no going back.
00:33:25:18 – 00:33:28:19
Philip
and there was, you know, my wife, like I said, was very supportive of that.
00:33:28:19 – 00:33:36:12
Rod
But, which is amazing, honestly, because I you’ve got kids, I could just totally see the fear in that. And the fact that she supported you. She’s a freaking keeper.
00:33:36:12 – 00:33:43:05
Philip
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. so that was, you know, that was very, very difficult. You know, just no one’s getting through it.
00:33:43:05 – 00:33:44:10
Rod
And the agonizing about.
00:33:44:10 – 00:33:45:04
Philip
It, the whole thing.
00:33:45:05 – 00:34:04:15
Rod
Yeah, I can imagine. And then all the crap you’re getting from your, you know, your confederates, their your, your coworkers and boss and all that stuff. Yeah. So is there anything that you do to deal with any self-talk, like when you were dealing with that? Anything come to mind when I ask that question?
00:34:04:17 – 00:34:29:03
Philip
talking to people. who were encouraging me because, you know, they had, you know, invest in real estate and done things like, for example, I have a close family friend, is a mortgage broker in Richie. He, he had invested in real estate a long time ago. and he had done very well. He owns a shopping center now, and he was one of the only people telling me that I should buy this two family.
00:34:29:03 – 00:34:35:12
Philip
You should do it, you know? Don’t listen to him. He doesn’t own this. He doesn’t own that, you know, and he he that was very, very helpful.
00:34:35:12 – 00:34:37:00
Rod
So getting around the right people.
00:34:37:00 – 00:34:37:12
Philip
Getting around.
00:34:37:12 – 00:34:52:14
Rod
The right people that weren’t fearful, people that want more out of life. It’s also motivated you. I’ve got my warrior event coming up the end of April, and we get a few hundred warriors together because we discovered I discovered this like four years ago, that our most successful warriors were the ones that were the most connected in the warrior community.
00:34:52:17 – 00:35:11:11
Rod
And so we started doing things to help facilitate those connections, because you got to get around people that want more out of life. And so we let people know if they live in the same state. We have breakout sessions with like speed dating and then these warrior only events which are pivotal, you know, they’re like, literally, rocket ships for my students.
00:35:11:14 – 00:35:28:04
Rod
let me ask you this. You know, you’ve got kids, you’ve got a wife. Was there anything I mean, did you have what, if anything, did you have to cut out of your life to push forward in real estate? Did you have to make any sacrifices? And and how did you deal with that, if any?
00:35:28:06 – 00:35:45:04
Philip
You know, really, the only thing I’d sacrifice was that that steady income. I was so excited to get started in it that it it it helped me push through that. Okay. You know, but that was, that was the big thing was just the, you know, pension and an a relatively high income. Right? I mean, right, that’s for sure.
00:35:45:04 – 00:35:46:14
Rod
So you’re making good money.
00:35:46:14 – 00:35:48:17
Philip
Yeah. Overpaid in my opinion. But yeah.
00:35:48:17 – 00:35:50:15
Rod
Are you. That’s honest.
00:35:50:17 – 00:35:53:04
Philip
Government. You know the government’s.
00:35:53:06 – 00:36:03:28
Rod
so what is your ultimate goal? You know, you’re working for someone else now is is the ultimate goal to ultimately do this yourself or you? What are your thoughts on that question?
00:36:04:00 – 00:36:26:26
Philip
you know, my ultimate goal is to to stay with this company and help grow it. It’s really, the satisfaction I get is the progress. You know, I really like building on our portfolio and progressing, and, and, is actually building out his own software, from the ground up. So it’s going to be, investor portal, all of our data.
00:36:26:29 – 00:36:28:23
Philip
I mean, it’s a huge undertaking. Wow. But.
00:36:28:23 – 00:36:31:19
Rod
Oh, God. They have investor portals you can buy off the shelf that are kick ass.
00:36:31:19 – 00:36:39:20
Philip
Right? But he’s that’s a lot of work. He’s building it for his own thing with all sorts of plug ins. And yeah, it’s it’s going to be, it’s it’s well cool.
00:36:39:23 – 00:37:00:13
Rod
Well you know happiness comes from progress and growth. You know, I talk I tell the story by getting these big things in my life and you’re great for a month or two. And then it’s like, what’s next? And so you know, you’ve got to have that continual growth and progress. And, you know, one of the things I, I teach in my boot camp and I’ve got one coming up this weekend, actually, is, is, you know, I do a weekly planning process.
00:37:00:13 – 00:37:21:12
Rod
And part of that process is to celebrate anything you got done, you know, to pat yourself on the back because you’re going to have setbacks, you’re going to have delays. But if you’re progressing, you’re happy. And happiness comes from progress and growth that never comes from the goals. So well, listen, brother, I really appreciate you flying down here to to to sit in that couch and and thank you for suffering through years of my podcast.
00:37:21:12 – 00:37:36:13
Rod
I appreciate that as well. It was a pleasure to meet you. And, and you’ve definitely added some value today because this is not a topic that we’ve really talked about on the show. And I’m trying to bring in other things, you know, different asset classes and things just to keep it interesting. And, and this is an asset class I like.
00:37:36:13 – 00:37:48:17
Rod
I like it a lot actually. I mean, if it was between this and self storage and maybe mobile home parks, these are the three I think I like the most other than multifamily. So you’re in the right place. Well, listen brother, thanks. It was a pleasure to meet you.
00:37:48:19 – 00:37:49:10
Philip
Thank you for having me.
00:37:49:10 – 00:37:50:00
Rod
Absolutely.
